How honest are we about passing

[Trysha]

I had a great talk today with a makeup artist who specializes in helping
cross dressers. He is of the opinion that appearing as a woman requires
a technical understanding of makeup as it applies to a man's skin, as well
as taping to give the face a more feminine form, and a little more makeup than
most woman require because of our skin. He thinks that many cross dressers are not really honest with themselves about wether they really pass is public, and
basically go around with a set of blinders on. I told him that I don't really care
what other people think as long as I dress appropriately, and move with confidence, and nobody want's to beat me up.
He being a cross dresser says he cannot stand the ridicule of others, or being read by insensitive people. Most woman don't wear alot of makeup every day, or dress
very feminine so as not to be bothered. So I guess we should dress in a casual, but feminine way and expect to be read, or in a more dolled up version with all the makeup tricks to really try to pass as a woman, but maybe drawing even more attention to ourselves because we look so feminine. Honesty does not have to take the thrill out of cross dressing.

[Lorileah]

Let's be honest very few CD's pass even with stage make up. I don't expect to be mistaken for a GG, that would be like trying to pass off an elephant for a mouse.

Taping, pulling tugging squishing padding an inch of make up and a dark room may help but few ever "pass"

[Wildaboutheels]

Some folks want or need to pass.

Others could care less.

Short of walking up and asking folks "did you recognise me as a guy dressed up as a woman" no one can KNOW [or should assume] they passed simply because no one said anything.

The TRUTH about passing is that very few "normal" people out in the RW care or are looking to bust CDers.

I also think your friend is incorrect. Skin is basically skin and obviously many here have the various facial features common to GGs that make it easier for them to "pass" or blend in as a female.

Since one CANNOT KNOW if they passed... isn't it rather silly to worry about it?

[arbon]

So I guess we should dress in a casual, but feminine way and expect to be read, or in a more dolled up version with all the makeup tricks to really try to pass as a woman, but maybe drawing even more attention to ourselves because we look so feminine. Honesty does not have to take the thrill out of cross dressing.

Being all dolled up with a bunch of makeup can give you away just as easily, not because you look more feminine but because most people don't typically go about their days wearing lots of makeup and they look more closely when somebody is. That does not mean don't wear it, you should if you like to, but it probably does not help as much as you think with passing.

[whowhatwhen]

Look at it this way, society expects so much of women that there are GGs that sometimes don't pass...
The deck is incredibly stacked.

Edit:
I'm referring to the superficial expectations of others, not whether or not women pass as women.

Example: "She has a bit of an Adam's apple, probably a guy"

[Being Paige]

I do not try to pass at all, If I had to be 100% passible I wouldn't set foot out of the house. I am just being myself dressed the way I want to be. I don't believe that I am ever satisfied by my looks but that doesn't, but am always trying to improve on my applying makeup. When I'm out, I am confident and have most always been treated with respect everwhere I have gone. That being said, there have been times where I have been laughed at or even called names but I do not let that stop me.

[Stephanie47]

I'm totally honest. I do not pass! That's one reason why I forgo makeup around the house as an in home cross dresser. It's a waste of time to try to convince myself that I may pass. I just don't get close to the mirrors. It's about how I feel, not how my face looks. Oh, the masculine body is a problem too!

[STACY B]

The best way to PASS ,,, Is to stay as far away from everyone else as you can ,, Go to places where you just float around an have little or no contact with people but you are around people . Stay out of peoples faces an just mind your bizzness !!

[Lady Catherine]

I know I don't pass. I agree with what most of you have said so far. With me, it is definately more how I feel.

[Sara Jessica]

Since one CANNOT KNOW if they passed... isn't it rather silly to worry about it?

A page torn from my book. Passing is so overrated because it is impossible to quantify unless you are that one-in-one-thousand who is able to pass amongst a gaggle of gg friends (and yes, I know one TG woman who can pull that off marvelously).

For the rest of us, all the effort in the world would never get us to that promised land so why worry so much about it???

[Melissa Rose]

Let's be honest very few CD's pass even with stage make up. I don't expect to be mistaken for a GG, that would be like trying to pass off an elephant for a mouse.
Taping, pulling tugging squishing padding an inch of make up and a dark room may help but few ever "pass"

I feel exactly the same way. A lot of wishful thinking, pink fog blinders, misinterpreting reactions (or lack of), and believing too much in what others are saying out of politeness or being supportive goes on. As long as it is not causing any harm or trouble, does it really matter?

The following may come come across as a bit harsh or unsupportive, but it is not meant in that way. One place where I see a lot of miscalibration occurring is in the picture section here. Someone posts a picture with the overt or implied desire to get feedback, and there is a chorus of "you totally pass" or "you look great" comments. While those saying it may being honest with their opinion or trying to be encouraging and supportive, but many times I have a hard time in totally agreeing. I admit of being critical and having high standards, but I was puzzled by the disconnect. When it came to me that perhaps a phrase was being dropped from the end of "You look great", it started to make more sense. This phrase is "for a cross dresser". Compared to other cross dressers, they may look great, but compared to GGs similarly attired and made up, they are obviously cross dressing men. Add in other body markers and gender cues, and the difference becomes even more pronounced when compared to GGs. If it was as easy as proper makeup, a wig, breast forms and clothing, most could forgo FFS, HRT and other procedures in order to fully blend in visually as a woman. Sometimes in the process of being encouraging and supportive (which is a good thing and should be done), sometimes the truth gets a bit distorted.

Unless blessed or cursed with feminine physical features, makeup tends not to make a typical male look like a woman regardless how expertly applied. It will make a male look less masculine, so it depends on the starting point as to how successful it is. There is only so much masculine facial soft tissue and bone structure and beard shadow that can be disguised or hidden with makeup especially in person (versus in pictures with controlled lighting).

As other have already stated, it is up to each person how important it is to pass. Whether you pass or not, all that really matters is how you deal with it. There is no right or wrong way. I totally understand the desire to want to pass, and I am no different in that regard. I know I get read - while I do not like it, I do not let it stop me. Most importantly, do not let my opinion or anyone else's take away your joy and stop you. Pass or not, if it feels right and good to you, embrace it.

[AllieSF]

I think there are a lot of background experiences, feelings and ideas in what your makeup artist told you. If I understood correctly he is also a CD and is also, like the vast majority of CD's, sensitive to being read when out in the real world. Also, his full or part time business is doing makeup. So, since he is sensitive about getting read, properly done makeup can help a lot, and I do not mean the caked on variety, to help reduce the number of people that may read him and, therefore, might upset him by knowing that they read him. Since it is also part of his income he has an economic interest in convincing others to use his services, intentionally or not.

In my case and that a lot of others' here who go out all the time, I believe that our focus is to get our outfit, accessories and makeup as best as we can, without overdoing it in level of effort as well as the amount of makeup that we use, so that we can hopefully get out of the house as quickly as possible to be able to enjoy the finished transformed product, us as women, as long as possible. Once I walk out of my house, the last thing I worry about is my makeup, except for maybe my lipstick, which I like to maintain throughout the time out. I also do not worry about what others think, as long as I am satisfied, I am good to go. Because of this attitude or approach to my activities as a CD, it is easier for me to accept what I have done, instead of continually worrying about it and letting it become the focus of my evening.

I would guess that I could probably do a better job with my makeup. I also believe that what I do is not that bad either. It has so far been perfect for me, it is quick and does not in any way interfere with my ability to enjoy the evening out, even getting me some nice compliments many times while out. That fits my needs better than I could ever have hoped for when I first started all this.

Do we really pass? As others have said, maybe a very small percent of us do. Do we blend? Here I think that a much larger percent, still in the overall minority, do, at least up until we open our mouths to utter a few words or until others get a closer look at our details. Passing for me would be the dream, blending is my goal, which I think I reach most of the time.

[kellycan27]

Look at it this way, society expects so much of women that there are GGs that sometimes don't pass...
The deck is incredibly stacked.

Lets get real here. I am sure that there are plenty of women out there who may not be happy with certain aspects like body, looks, hair etc but you'd be pretty hard pressed to find those who worry about "not passing" as a woman. Women don't have to pass... They are women.

[Angela Campbell]

I know several "ladies" that pass quite well. If no one told you it would take getting them undressed to know. In most cases it comes down to genetics. Some are very lucky and some are not. I also know some who will never pass no matter what they do. I would settle for others just not knowing for sure. If they wonder but cannot say it is obvious I would be happy. On a good day I blend pretty well.


Oh, and I have known a few GG's that would make you wonder if they are a man or not.

[whowhatwhen]

Lets get real here. I am sure that there are plenty of women out there who may not be happy with certain aspects like body, looks, hair etc but you'd be pretty hard pressed to find those who worry about "not passing" as a woman. Women don't have to pass... They are women.

I meant the superficial expectations of society/others more or less, any flaw and it's "she must be a guy".

Edit:
My wording was atrocious on that I guess.

vvvv
Drat!
I didn't mean it that way!

*sobs uncontrollably*

[Anne2345]

Lets get real here. I am sure that there are plenty of women out there who may not be happy with certain aspects like body, looks, hair etc but you'd be pretty hard pressed to find those who worry about "not passing" as a woman. Women don't have to pass... They are women.

Very well stated, Kelly!

And absolutely true . . . .

[whowhatwhen]

I edited my post but I was really referring to the shallow opinions of others, not a GG's perception of herself.

[melissakozak]

Passing is also about blending in and confidence....and confidence takes time. It also helps to dress down if going out....which I love to do....

[Rachael_TX]

I quit caring about passing. I've worn a dress with a beard into a TGIFridays and sat at the bar and ordered a meal. Nobody treated me with any care. A few odd stares on the way out. I just start incorporating more feminine items into my male wardrobe. Whether it be a pair of boots or sandals or a scarf a bracelet ot a lacey top. But yet thinking of running into people I might know scares the bejebus out of me.

[Leah Lynn]

When I go out I do pass- I have a lead foot and a fast car. Oh, that OTHER kind of passing! Not a snowball's chance in hades. But I still go out often. I try to emulate females but know I can't pass as one. However, as soon as I win the lottery, FFS, HRT, SRS, and any other letter combinations that come up.

Leah

[NathalieX66]

I go out in public. I do enjoy wearing dresses too! I have a rule, it goes like this: IJDGAF..........you figure it out.

[Fran Moore]

I go out in public. I do enjoy wearing dresses too! I have a rule, it goes like this: IJDGAF..........you figure it out.

I figured it out pretty fast Nathalie, and I couldn't agree with you more! If people don't like it they'll just have to GOI.

[Miriam-J]

I don't worry too much about passing. But I try to dress and make up well enough to build up significant doubt that I'm definitely a guy.

Just sit back and watch folks walk by sometime. There are a lot of GGs that might draw as much doubt as me in gal mode, and no one in their right mind is going to call them out. That low bar is all I need to beat.

Miriam

[whowhatwhen]

I have a rule, it goes like this: IJDGAF..........you figure it out.

I just don't go and fart either, nowadays it's just too risky...

[Beverley Sims]

I use as little makeup as possible in daily life and I think I get away with it more than when I am "dolled" up.
More makeup is like a coat of plaster that I do not want to crack.