At what age did you know you were TS?

[ReineD]

I can point to different timeframes for all of these things, but one thing knowing is not, is understanding. I didn't really know what being transsexual meant (and I'm not talking about consequences) until a few months ago. Most post-ops would tell me, as they ALL have to-date, that I yet don't understand. So what do I "know" and what have I known?

This is a good point, and my question as well. A TS may not know that what she has experienced all of her life was transsexuality, but at the same time this does not pop up out of the blue in middle age, after she has had a happy marriage, enjoyed being a father, and has otherwise led a successful male life? Surely, there must have been some dissatisfaction with being male for quite some years, for someone who feels that she was born in the wrong body? I'm asking because I don't understand late onset TS either ... although I do understand, through my SO, someone who is gender non-conforming.

Maybe some people can look back and instead acknowledge a long-standing form of depression, without pinpointing it to GID? But, in the interest of providing a point of view from someone who knows that she is not TS, and at the risk of posting too much in a public forum, I realize now that I've suffered from depression most of my life without being able to label it for what it was, not until my 40s. Still, I know in the deepest part of myself that it had absolutely nothing to do with any feelings of gender/sexual incongruity. I have always enjoyed my body bits.

I have also felt close to both men and women emotionally, have enjoyed doing things with both genders, have had male best friends with whom I could discuss anything, and have even enjoyed competing with men as a young woman when I was building my career. But, as a group my reptilian brain always saw men more as people to have sex with than seeing them as sitting on the same side of the fence as me.

So in some ways I've always known without necessarily always knowing. And if you understand that, you're better at understanding than I am.

This, I understand.

[melissaK]

Honestly who at 3,4, or 5 has the capacity to understand the difference?

Yea. I didn't "know" at a young age because as you say, I knew no different.

But adults told me that my behavior that displayed my interest in being like my girl friends and doing girl things was not acceptable (make-up session at age 4-5 led to a lecture about my shameful conduct; I was physically prohibited from playing hopscotch and jump rope with my girl friends at recess in 3rd and 4th grades and told to go play with the boys; my desk moved in 4th grade class to disrupt my friendship with other girls and surround me with boys).

So I knew from the adults that I had issues tied with boy/girl differences, even though I had a poor grasp of the problem.

And I want to add, these are not convenient "fit the narrative" recollections.

I can recall my grandfathers face to this day as I got my meme up lecture.

My playground incident in 3rd grade was devastating - I LOST ALL MY FRIENDS that day. I had no boys I played with. I spent recesses alone til summer came.

Following my 4th grade desk relocation I stabbed one of my girl friends out of anger in my mistaken belief that she had betrayed me and my banishment from the girl cliques was her fault. (We made up eventually, and are still friends, though I have never had my "Earl" moment and told her about the gender issues under it all ).

The forcing of gender role compliance on me in school caused me other BIG and REAL problems.

In 4th and 5th grade we did then brand new Presidents Fitness Program which included throwing balls for distance. It was gender based and I THREW LIKE A GIRL. But no one measured me against the girls - they measured my against the boys. I remember vividly when it dawned on me that they were measuring me against boys not the girls. It isolated me in a no-mans land I couldn't comprehend.

So I tend to bristle when people imply all these recollected childhood events might be me just conveniently creating a concocted narrative. This thinking I'm a girl stuff has always been me.

[ReineD]

But adults told me that my behavior that displayed my interest in being like my girl friends and doing girl things was not acceptable

Kaitlyn mentioned Jan Morris. I had never heard of her, but here is a preview to her book, Marleena. She wrote it in 1974. She also knew at a young age that she was different:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Lh_...page&q&f=false

[Marleena]

Thanks Reine I've heard the same about knowing at an early age. I'm not sure at what age one would know what gender is.

Looking back, knowing what we know now there may have been clues at an early age I guess.

[Angela Campbell]

I knew when I was four that I wanted to be a girl. Yes I did know the difference at the time. ( I could read when I was 5) I didn't suspect I was TS until I was a teen and heard about a sex change operation in the news. I remember thinking I wanted one.

[Jennifer Marie P.]

I knew by age 6 that I really wanterd to be a girl.

[ReineD]

Good lord ... I've just been reading a bit about Jan Morris' life, and then read my post again and I feel as if I sound judgmental against late-onset TSs. I'm not, I just don't understand is all, if there was no clue during childhood that there was some incongruity.

In the final analysis, does it matter when the condition is realized or when in a person's life it is labeled accurately, or even what transpires in a person's life that might cause a desire for transition?

The only danger is if the motive to transition stems from an (idealistic?) view of life as a female as opposed to a true sense of not being male and an abject need to not live as a male, which then might lead to irreversible changes and losses including the disruption of a long-term marriage, only to realize after some years that the transitioner is no happier as a female than she or he was as a male. This is the tragic part, that someone might be disappointed in the outcome, since the one who'd suffer most would be the transitioner. But, if there is long-lasting and deep satisfaction with having transitioned, then none of these questions matter.

BTW, Jan Morris has a remarkable son who is a Welsh poet and musician. There are beautiful videos on youtube.

[Marleena]

It's perfectly normal to wonder when the clues start Reine. I found this: I just looked up transgender kids and 5 or 6 does not seem far fetched. Article: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...s-life/307059/

[ReineD]

Marleena, referring to the article that you've just linked, the internet is full of such stories and there are many parents who blog, advocating for understanding of their TS kids. And there are lots of support groups for the families of TS kids. And as a whole, I think the general populace is more understanding of a TS child than adults who transition, going by memory having read highly supportive comments on stories of young transsexuals. I think that insurance would be pretty high against future dissatisfaction with transition, when a child knows who he or she is before the onset of puberty, when sexual impulses tend to maybe muddle things.

[Marleena]

I think these kids are the lucky ones Reine. Diagnosed,, accepted and prepared at an early age.

I'm also learning there is no set of rules because we are all different. I can only vividly remember my first day of Kindergarten and a events at age 8-10. Most everything else is blurred or blocked out until my teens.

[DaniG]

This is a good point, and my question as well. A TS may not know that what she has experienced all of her life was transsexuality, but at the same time this does not pop up out of the blue in middle age, after she has had a happy marriage, enjoyed being a father, and has otherwise led a successful male life? Surely, there must have been some dissatisfaction with being male for quite some years, for someone who feels that she was born in the wrong body? I'm asking because I don't understand late onset TS either ... although I do understand, through my SO, someone who is gender non-conforming.

"...pop up out of the blue in middle age..."
That would bascially be me. I had no clue whatsoever.
o happy marriage (yes)
o enjoyed being a father (yes)
o successful male life (er, okay, maybe not so much here - TMI)

"dissatisfaction with being male for quite some years, for someone who feels that she was born in the wrong body"
I had a ton of crap going on in my life, but it was all disconnected. I didn't allow myself to see the big picture. I can give you a few illustrations. I had low self-esteem. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror. It just didn't seem right. But I told myself that no one really enjoys look at themselves in the mirror. I'd watch James Bond movies and rather than think how cool it would be to be James Bond, I'd admire the bond girls and wonder what it would be like to be that beautiful. I was only wondering, I'd justify it to myself. There were physical challenges in bed (wrong equipment). I even got published as a lesbian romance author! But in my psychotic denial, my subconscious never allowed me to connect the dots. I literally didn't see the forest for the trees.

So one day when one of my lesbian friends said to me, "You should really transition," it was exactly like that - out of the blue. But I knew it instantly. "I'm a woman."

Good lord ... I've just been reading a bit about Jan Morris' life, and then read my post again and I feel as if I sound judgmental against late-onset TSs. I'm not, I just don't understand is all, if there was no clue during childhood that there was some incongruity.

That would be me (among others). Didn't take it that way at all.

The only danger is if the motive to transition stems from an (idealistic?) view of life as a female as opposed to a true sense of not being male and an abject need to not live as a male, which then might lead to irreversible changes and losses including the disruption of a long-term marriage, only to realize after some years that the transitioner is no happier as a female than she or he was as a male. This is the tragic part, that someone might be disappointed in the outcome, since the one who'd suffer most would be the transitioner. But, if there is long-lasting and deep satisfaction with having transitioned, then none of these questions matter.

Well, we live in an imperfect world. There are no guarantees in life. For me, I was certainly concerned about this. For the longest time the focus of my therapy was all about whether this was real or could I get off on a technicality. But I'm fairly certain about it now. Now my focus is all about exploring my nature and deciding if transition is right for me. I'm taking it slowly. But I don't want to wait too long. At 45 I still have a modicum of youth left, and if I'm going to live the rest of my life as a woman, I'd like to start while I have a little energy left.

But in the general sense, the WPATH standards are there to protect against bad decisions. Nothing is 100% bullet proof, but there is no other medical procudure for which such rigorous eligibility must be met.

[ReineD]

o successful male life (er, okay, maybe not so much here - TMI)

What do you mean, exactly, is it this:

I had low self-esteem. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror. It just didn't seem right. But I told myself that no one really enjoys look at themselves in the mirror. I'd watch James Bond movies and rather than think how cool it would be to be James Bond, I'd admire the bond girls and wonder what it would be like to be that beautiful. I was only wondering, I'd justify it to myself. There were physical challenges in bed (wrong equipment). I even got published as a lesbian romance author!

I'm certainly not questioning who you are or how you identify, but I just want to point out that I've been here a long time, have read literally tens of thousands of posts, and I can't tell you how often I read the sentiments you describe on the CD side of the forum. Now it could be that many if not the bulk of crossdressers are in denial about being TS, it's not for me to say. My SO also does not think that s/he is attractive as a male and there is also an absence of mirrors in the house, except in her dressing room, where there are several full length mirrors! And, well, as difficult as this is to discuss, you are by no means the only person in this forum who feels challenged in bed and who prefers (if this is what you mean), to get into the fantasy of being a woman. Tons of CDers will say that they love to fantasize they are lesbian, and many more will say they love to fantasize about being with men as women, but only when they are dressed.

Still, you are the only person who is qualified to diagnose yourself, so I wish you all the best in whatever decision you will eventually make. But I feel I need to be honest with you and say that I feel a sense of disquiet when I read that it pops up out of the blue in the later stages of life. I know of a few people who had terrible times post-transition.

... I also know some people who did transition as they were meant to and who are happy, but who have known on some levels for most of their lives that there was a disconnect, like Rianna describes above. But, the bulk of the people that I know are someplace in the middle, which is a difficult place to navigate.

Good luck!

[KellyJameson]

I do not think I'm representative of the transsexual experience. If I used the words of others to define whether I'm transsexual or not than I would say "not".

I do not consciously identify as a woman but accept that I have an intense internalized identity as female that was born from the interplay of genetics, epigentics, fetal development and early environment creating what I call an intersexed condition whose evidence is primarily locked away in the cells and brain of the person with some evidence on the outside.

I will always be this rational person who was created in response to this "female" using my rational mind to try and survive the experience.

Many transsexuals are self destructive because the thoughts in their heads become to much for them and I have always felt like I'm extremely dangerous to myself where I could destroy myself because of this "stuff" inside my head.

It creates an intense need to "escape" the self or to "fix" the self. To make the world "right"

I totally get why so many commit suicide and I'm surprised more do not.

For me there is not a day I "knew" but more a process of slow capitulation or slide into the inevitable that my rational mind relentlessly fought in the belief that otherwise I would die.

It was a struggle against self that I lost resulting in acceptance of self and all the consequences that go with it, i.e. transitioning which is just as difficult but different.

During this struggle I lived in a shadow world of being physically genderless so not man nor woman on the outside.

My body was the war zone and its status the demarcation line drawn in battle.

Of course most normal human beings will not associate with you when you live like this so you become a social outcast living on the fringes of society, but it was a mutual rejection so not particularly painful.

My whole life is "gender dysphoria". Gender dysphoria is the story of my life.

The only thing that changed was my understanding of gender dysphoria and this gave me the tools to stand outside of myself and see myself for the first time.

Many in the past told me what I am but you have to want to hear the message before you act on its meaning and accept the implications

I think the more a person relies on logic the more dangerous gender dysphoria is. I have found it to be supremely difficult to understand rationally.

I will never dismount the rational horse that I ride because that is who I am but it does come with high costs.

There is wisdom in letting the pain make your decisions.

[Nicole Erin]

I suppose it was about age 13 when it started to really hit me. I have a hard time understanding how people "knew" at 3,4 or 5 years old. I have a 5 year old and an almost 3 year old who don't have a clue as to gender. They have nothing to compare themselves to in order that they make that distinction. Honestly who at 3,4, or 5 has the capacity to understand the difference?

Kelly, some just say that so they can fit in with the crowd of "true transsexuals".
For me, I was showing feminine behavior as far back as i can remember but when I was little, I never sat around and had deep thoughts about gender. Heh, I still don't.

[DaniG]

What do you mean, exactly, is it this:

Yes.

I'm certainly not questioning who you are or how you identify, ...

You are, but it's actually a valid question. It was the focus of my therapy for quite a while. Is this real or am I imagining it?

As an interesting side note, I've never really cross dressed. I got in touch with my femininity through my writing. I joined this site to actually learn how to CD. I just donned my first article three days ago! (It was great. Thanks.)

Suffice to say, I've only given you a short glimpse of a long laundry list of items. But I can tell you that I've been in therapy from the start. Three months in my wife, therapist, and I are all in tentative agreement that I'm TG. From here I have an exploration to discover myself. But I'm not making any rash decisions any time soon.

Still, you are the only person who is qualified to diagnose yourself,

Wish I felt qualified!

But I feel I need to be honest with you and say that I feel a sense of disquiet when I read that it pops up out of the blue in the later stages of life.

As it should. It certainly gives me pause. But it's the lot I've been handed. So I have to examine the evidence and make a call one way or the other.

Good luck!

Thanks! I'll need it!

[CarolynO]

I only fully realized it when I reached age 50.My GID started getting stronger with or without being aroused in my mid twenties. My cd'ing was very erotic up to the age of 25.The thing is when I became aroused,extreme GD would come with it.Between those "events",there was nothing,no thoughts of gender etc.I just didn't know what to think of it or how to understand it back then.Letting alone what do I do about it.

Lately I was thinking what was it that screwed up my life?Was it CD'ing,the GD,the constant wondering why,what if?Would've,should've.

My male life never went anywhere.So what was it?My answer is being born male is what screwed it up.

Even considering all that,I don't consider myself truly in center of the TS universe.I feel I fall a little short as there is a difference between wishing very,very much to transition and NEEDING to or die.

[arbon]

When I was real young - 4 or 5 - I very distinctly remember thinking I could not tell my mom how I felt, that I had to keep a secret, which was that I wished I was a girl. For most of my life I kept it folded up tight inside, I could not acknowledge how I really felt - and I was very confused by what I felt and thought and my behavior. There were times when it came unraveled and slipped out, in my early 20's for instance when I was deep in my drinking when I would say things and behave in ways that were very embarrassing and raised some eyebrows. And I came out as gay for a while, well a lot of people assumed I was anyway. Kinda like April though, when I sobered up I was starting a new life and I had found god and believed I could handle it and keep how I felt shoved down. Marriage was gonna seal the deal. I remember early in my relationship when we lived in the city for a couple years we saw a trans woman walking down the street and my wife said "thats a guy, why can't people just accept who they are?" (she was meaning why couldn't she just accept being a man) I felt horrible, felt like I was living lie and wished I could accept myself for who I was because I knew inside I had a lot in common with that person. But it terrified me.

Anyway in late 2008 the crap hit the fan, and I spent the next year and 1/2 or more in the worst depression and anxiety, struggling with accepting myself for who I am. It was somewhere in there I started to accept I was transsexual and what that meant - so the answer to the question sometime in the first 1/2 of 2010. I did not ever want to go there and there I was anyway.

For a while I did go back through my past and look for every little clue and detail to try and justify and validate myself to transition. But really it does not mean very much to me today. I found that living as a woman I feel good about myself, about who I am today. Its a world away from where I was. I finally let go, and let my self live ---- it just took some time to get there.

[Janie {3]

4. Remember putting on girl clothes @ 4, and loved it.

[StephanieC]

Last year .

[Jorja]

I found this: I just looked up transgender kids and 5 or 6 does not seem far fetched. Article: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...s-life/307059/

If my parents had been able to allow me to start being a girl at 8 years old, I would have been overjoyed and they would have had the peace and quiet they wanted. However, that was the mid 50's early 60's. It was a different time. A different world. Basically, their hands were tied. I don't blame them for that. I just wish they could have acknowledged the fact their son was different than the other boys.

[SuzanneBender]

For some of us discerning the feelings that drive our emotions and behavior takes years.

I remember wishing I was a girl at a young age. I always ended my bedtime prayer with "and God please let me wake up as a girl tomorrow". Every morning I would hop out of bed and be disappointed. The feelings were there but at that age at that time there was not a label for it.

I remember seeing "transsexuals" on TV when I was a teen and in the back of naughty magazines. They were always portrayed as aberrant. I knew I was like them deep down, but the reality was too much to fathom. Like many ladies my age I spent my best years trying to prove that I wasn't one of those people. Sports, a military career, marriage, kids, achieving the American dream should have been enough to quell the chaos in my soul, but it was not.

I finally faced the truth three years ago and told myself it is OK to own my feelings of wanted to be a woman. Then it became a matter of realizing if I were truly transsexual; someplace else on the transgender scale, or just harboring a life long fantasy. Figuring this out has been one of the toughest things I have ever done.

The only danger is if the motive to transition stems from an (idealistic?) view of life as a female as opposed to a true sense of not being male...only to realize after some years that the transition is no happier as a female than she or he was as a male

Reine is wise beyond belief (as always ). No one wants to risk it all up only to realize that they were wrong especially in a case like this where there is no return to the way it was before. The day that I knew that I truly was transsexual and not just pursuing an idealistic dream was the moment I realized that transition comes at a huge cost, but so far the costs paid have not dissuaded me from continuing to want to live authentically.

I say this with a caveat. The Benjamin standards are in place for a reason and I have not started RLE, I will let you know if that feeling of the cost being worth it continues to exist at that time. Stay tuned. Same bat channel same bat time.

OR my other theory is it could have also been when I was 33 and opened a fortune cookie that said "you will go through a major transition".

[ReineD]

As an interesting side note, I've never really cross dressed.

I've heard of quite of few TSs for whom it was never about the crossdressing. If fact, the CDing made them feel worse because it was only temporary and also a stark reminder that they were not living full time as women. I always got the impression that it wasn't about being beautiful or sexy for them, although I'm sure that being passable (having others see them as women) was important, as it should be. But again I've got to be honest with you and say that these people had a deep knowledge for most of their lives that there was some incongruity about being male even if they never acted on it.

... but also, we are all complex creatures and there is not one rule, not one process that fits everyone. If you lived a happy life as a male without ever crossdressing or questioning your gender and you woke up one day in middle age with the knowledge that you are not a man, no one here is in a measure to dispute this. Those of us who give fair warning that most people do not arrive at their conclusions that way only do so out of concern, simply because transition is such a huge change that can bring with it major losses, and also there have been members who have "wanted" to be women without necessarily being TS. I dare say there are lots of members on the CD side who feel this way. You are new here so I hope that you understand if, not knowing you or your background, or all the work that you've done with a therapist, I expressed concern over having come to your realization out of the blue.

There is a strong drive in this section to support transwomen, but there is also a concern for the people who may not be TS but who are in pink fogs and who want validation (this really does happen sometimes). I personally think this is the beauty of this place ... the members care enough to use their combined experience and knowledge to be as honest as they possibly can be with others, while they try as best they can to not judge. It's a precarious balance. But, you have been working diligently with a therapist and so your bases are covered.

[Barbara Ella]

I have been having a meltdown the past two days, and am struggling to work up a post that does not come across as an old lady whimpering about what is. This thread topic seems to offer an opportunity to spill a bit. I knew I had the wrong body from birth, but not because of gender, but a birth defect that I struggled with well into my thirties, and just repressed until this week. The gender dysphoria did not start until i was 65, 18 months ago, and I gradually realized I was TS sometime within the past 6 months, and am just beginning to realize what went into hating my body for the first 65 years.

I knew I was different because I could not do all the things the other normal boys could do because I had been given the wrong body. With an over achieving father, i now see why I just kept on trying, and shut up. I always would migrate to the "end of the bench" and be near the girls, I would go out of my way to tutor them in Calculus class. I sought out pictures of females, to have something of the female form to draw and sketch, until my father "talked" that out of me. I was always attracted to admiring the women, well into older age, but never to be one, but to marvel at the form and function of the female body, and how everything fit together. I truly hated the body i had been given. I feel now with a whole lot of personal revelations about the things I did, that maybe, perhaps, I was just using the visible excuse for the hate, and totally ignoring the mental aspect of the mismatch. This was the 50's etc. and certain thoughts just weren't front and center.

I don't know if this makes sense, and if i ever suspected I needed therapy, it is now almost becoming required to try and explain what I was doing the first 65 years where I kept doing normal things but never felt normal or secure about anything I did, therefore I tried to do as little as I could. Maybe the developments over the last 18 months are an over reaction to my hatred of my body. Now I am confused, but I have never felt more at peace than I have in recent months, so maybe I shouldn't give a damn about it, and continue to try and make the best about finally becoming an old lady at 66 and make plans for whatever can be done given all the situations.

Is my life a dichotomy that is not really one? I am working this out, and will expand if there is any sense in it.

Thanks for letting me get a little off topic.

Barbara

[ReineD]

The baby-boom generation really had it tough. There was no language for any of this, was there. But in their middle age there was, and so all the rules changed. And God knows what prior generations did, at the turn of the last century or before. Suck it up and be male, I suppose, for most of them. I've no idea.

I think it's wonderful that that period is permanently over with for most transfolks, simply because now there are so many resources at everyone's fingertips to help them define who they are at a much earlier age, and so they can take the steps to be who they need to be before saddling themselves with male responsibilities. Even if they are not ready to define themselves as transsexual due to the ever present strength of male conditioning, they know enough to know that something isn't right and they certainly know enough to tell a prospective spouse their interest in expressing femininity, or their affinity for all things female. And I dare say there are more prospective spouses in their 20s today who, although they may prefer being married to men who do not have affinities for feminine gender expression, will not freak out and think it is a perversion should their partners confess such a thing ... not to the degree that it was 30 or 40 years ago.

So hopefully, much of the angst we see expressed in this thread will not be there to the same degree in future generations. Also, maybe if the younger folks are more relaxed and fluid with gender expression (the transpersons, their partners, and their friends), it will be easier to just be fluid for a lot of people (although not for the Type V or VI TSs) rather than feel they must make the decision to pick just one side? I don't know about this, I'm just thinking out loud.

[Saffron]

I don't think we can remember the exact day of course.

I can, I wrote a post here

09-30-2012, 29 years old.

Of course I had all the pieces of the puzzle years before, but I didn't know anything about transition, transsexuals, etc. Also I was scared and on denial. When I finally gave up, I came here since I though I was a crossdresser. I was under the assumption I couldn't be TS.

I'm currently living full time, but still at the start of my transition. I don't know if I gonna survive the transition...

I have a hard time understanding how people "knew" at 3,4 or 5 years old.

It's a famous cliché. That's why I always discarded me being TS. I've memories of me at 4 playing with barbies and such, or at puberty wishing to grow breasts, but I never "knew". So I couldn't be TS, could I? :-P