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  1. #151
    Junior Member eddiesavage's Avatar
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    Hi Paula.
    Well done you.The hard parts over,now mending begins.2 years ago we were where you are now.It`s been bloody hard the whole way.1 step forward 2 back.But we are getting there.Don`t give up,sometimes you think that would be so much easier.
    We are worth fighting for,give it your all.

  2. #152
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    So my therapist called me on a couple of things - so I'm being more open with my wife about my feelings. Specifically I told her how bad I felt over the weekend.

    We've had several talks this week - pretty serious talks, mostly about where we're headed. My wife is completely convinced I'll transition. I have to admit this seems more likely to me now too. She doesn't see us having a future as a married couple, at least not as an intimate couple. She doesn't see us living together in 2-3 years tops, and maybe as soon as one year. She is interested in remodelling one of our spare bedrooms (we have two) so that when she can no longer sleep in the same room as me, I have a place to be. Maybe we stay married technically for a while - but in reality we wouldn't function as a couple. Possibly housemates - if she can tolerate that. (That is by no means certain.)

    Our sex life may well be over already. The changes I'm going through, minor though they are, are too much for her so far. She's trying to get used to them, but so far, she can't. And she can't stop thinking about her grief - "is this the last time we'll ever make love?" This is not a good line of thought if you are trying to be sexy.

    From my end, my libido is basically at zero anyway. I don't know if this is because of all the emotional stuff we're going through (seems possible), or because of antidepressants (I don't get very much out of having sex anyway), or some of both.

    Maybe this will improve - we are both trying.

    She's concerned I'm changing too fast, and she has a point. (I'm thinking about electrolysis for my face, and voice coaching. Both take a long time, and aren't very visible changes - I have been clean shaven for 23 years...) She's worried this is some kind of a checklist, and I guess she has a point. Both things bug me though. I'd also like to laser off my body hair, although I wanted to put that off for a while, mostly because it is very visible, she hates it, and it's permanent.

    I told her that I knew this was hell for her, and that she was really doing exceedingly well, and that no matter what happened to us as a couple, I assured her that the things in her life that I could keep the same for her, I would. (The house, as much of her life in our town as possible.)

    She doesn't believe there's a happy ending for us as a couple, not anymore. Just an ending - and way sooner than she wanted.

    I'm going to come out to one of my best friends soon, sometime in the next couple of weeks. (He's out of town, and I want to go to him in person, not do this by phone.) I'll report on that when it happens. No clue how it will go.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    ....She is interested in remodelling one of our spare bedrooms (we have two) so that when she can no longer sleep in the same room as me, I have a place to be. Maybe we stay married technically for a while ....
    Paula, I can't help but think that your wife is really incredible to even think you can stay in the house after transition. She never signed up for that. You really have to think of this as a best case scenario and nothing to dread.

  4. #154
    Junior Member Breeze's Avatar
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    I hope that you can both find some peace with the whole situation.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenniferathome View Post
    Paula, I can't help but think that your wife is really incredible to even think you can stay in the house after transition.
    She won't make it that long. Transition takes a really long time. She'll put up with me as long as she can - I've helped her a lot over 20 years. We have an entire house that we don't use now that she "had to have to be happy", as an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
    She never signed up for that. You really have to think of this as a best case scenario and nothing to dread.
    And I signed up for this? Are you suggesting that I'm the "bad guy" in this? I signed on for "until death do us part." However, how she feels is how she feels, and I don't blame her. I understand her reaction and I predicted it, if you will recall.

    BTW, I think this is the best case scenario:

    Quote Originally Posted by Laura Jane Grace
    Can we talk?" I asked my wife, Heather, on February 6, 2012, three days before her birthday. Maybe this wasn't the best timing, but I couldn't wait any longer. The pressure that had built up inside me for 31 years was about to burst. We lay down on our bed, Evelyn, our 3-year-old, napping in the other room, and looking into my wife's beautiful brown eyes, I made my confession: "I'm a transsexual." I buried my head into her chest and explained that this was something I'd been struggling with all my life.

    I wasn't sure how Heather would take it. She said something like "That's all you were going to tell me?" She later told me she thought I was going to say I had cheated on her or wanted a divorce—which she said would have been worse for her. She told me at that moment—and kept telling me—that she wasn't going anywhere.
    If my post about my conversation came across as "dread", please allow me to disabuse you of that notion. I dread the idea of killing myself. I dread the idea of losing my mind. (My therapist thinks the latter is unlikely.) I'm saddened that my marriage is, with a very high order of probability, unwinding. We are working together constructively to make sure my wife is prepared.

    I don't believe our marriage would survive even cross dressing to the extent that many on this forum practice. Anything else I do to feminize my body will just make things exponentially worse. It is probably already too late for the marriage to survive anyway, unless I can just give this up altogether, which seems unlikely.

    I do think, given her sexual preferences and upbringing, that she's handling this very well - actually better than I'd anticipated. She'd actually be pretty OK with this if this was one of my friends - just not her husband. I get that.

    I get the impression that you think I'm just terribly selfish in all of this. I'm sorry you feel that way.

    I am not at all sure, depending on what happens with me, that staying together is the best case scenario, at least for me - there would be sacrifices on my part. We do NOT live in an area where it is particularly easy or safe to be transgendered.

    BTW, I'm going out of town tomorrow to visit my best friend. I'm going to come out to him. I'll post about how it goes.

  6. #156
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    I came out to my oldest and best friend today. It went great. He had lots of questions (do I like men, how'd I discover I was TG at 50, how's my wive feel, all sorts of stuff), but he said he supported me and would remain my friend. We talked a lot about what I'm going through, my depression and anxiety, all sorts of stuff. He told me that I'd always stuck with him, and so he was here for me. I felt really good about this. He told me some personal stuff about himself that he'd never shared with anyone. (Nothing trans / sex related.) He could empathize with my misery, if not the cause. He felt like he'd stepped through the looking glass, or that any minute he'd wake up from a *really weird* dream. He made a few jokes (that's his way), but was curious about how I looked as a female. I'll have to take a photo and show him. (I'm overdue to post one for my forum avatar anyway.)

    He also told me, at the end of the conversation (this took about 2 1/2 hours), that he understood now, why I started out my talk with "I'm still sober, I have been for 23 years, keep this in mind, because everything else I am going to tell you is really weird."In the end though, he embraced me and told me that we were still friends, and that he hoped I could do whatever I needed to do to be happy, whatever that turns out to be.


    My wife and I talked about this, and she was happy for me. But I still feel badly, because at the end of the conversation, she was upset, and needed to go lay down. I could hear her screams and sobbing from downstairs, so I feel absolutely horrible about what she's going through. I don't know what I can do that make this not be painful for her, without trying to shove all this stuff down again, and live with it longer. I don't think I can do that - I think it'll kill me. (Or rather I'll kill myself if I try.)

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    She won't make it that long. Transition takes a really long time. She'll put up with me as long as she can - I've helped her a lot over 20 years. We have an entire house that we don't use now that she "had to have to be happy", as an example.


    And I signed up for this? Are you suggesting that I'm the "bad guy" in this? I signed on for "until death do us part." However, how she feels is how she feels, and I don't blame her. I understand her reaction and I predicted it, if you will recall.

    BTW, I think this is the best case scenario:



    If my post about my conversation came across as "dread", please allow me to disabuse you of that notion. I dread the idea of killing myself. I dread the idea of losing my mind. (My therapist thinks the latter is unlikely.) I'm saddened that my marriage is, with a very high order of probability, unwinding. We are working together constructively to make sure my wife is prepared.

    I don't believe our marriage would survive even cross dressing to the extent that many on this forum practice. Anything else I do to feminize my body will just make things exponentially worse. It is probably already too late for the marriage to survive anyway, unless I can just give this up altogether, which seems unlikely.

    I do think, given her sexual preferences and upbringing, that she's handling this very well - actually better than I'd anticipated. She'd actually be pretty OK with this if this was one of my friends - just not her husband. I get that.

    I get the impression that you think I'm just terribly selfish in all of this. I'm sorry you feel that way.

    I am not at all sure, depending on what happens with me, that staying together is the best case scenario, at least for me - there would be sacrifices on my part. We do NOT live in an area where it is particularly easy or safe to be transgendered.

    BTW, I'm going out of town tomorrow to visit my best friend. I'm going to come out to him. I'll post about how it goes.
    Try not to be too hard on yourself or your wife. What people want and foresee for themselves and their SO at the age of 20, usually isn't the same thing as what they want at 40 or 50. Many couples end up separating, not because either of them is evil or bad or to blame, but because their lives take separate paths. The idea that two people have to stay togather no matter what can be completely unrealistic in many situations. Indeed, staying togather when it's time to go can cause a relationship to become toxic and destructive to both parties.

    The degree to which a spouse will stay in a marriage with a TG depends really on the nature and extent of the transgendered behavior---occasionally wearing panties is different from getting fully dressed and made up once a week which is different than dressing daily, which is different than undergoing the "transition" with body altering hormones and surgery. From your description, you seem to be the latter type of individual, a true transexual. While there are some instances of spouses staying togather after the husband's transition (Jennifer Boylan in Maine is a good example) it is more common for the spouses to eventually separate--hopefully on good terms and with love and acceptance for each other's choice. I hope you and your wife acheive serenity in whatever road you take.
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  8. #158
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    I'm glad to hear it will well telling your friend.

  9. #159
    Aspiring Member TeresaCD's Avatar
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    Glad your best friend took it in his stride - good to know you have that support close at hand.
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  10. #160
    Come and talk with me ;) Briana90802's Avatar
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    You know Paula, I've been reading and somewhat following your post but I must say I'm rather confused. Please forgive me for being harsh and blunt but I think that people are too self centered these day. They think only about how things will affect them, how things make them feel, how others will perceive them and so on. The things your wife say and do fall into this category. From what I see by your posts that you are trying to please yourself and your wife. Maybe I have it wrong here but the the behavior you've explained seems like she's been disillusioned about your relationship together, meaning that perhaps her idea of marriage was an illusion to begin with. People are so f***ing gullible these days to believe in the "happily ever after" and yet they do so much believe that they don't know how to own their own feelings, to know how to resolve conflicts, to know that the trials and tribulation are what the things that make a relationship better. Without them how do you compare the good time from the bad.
    Ask your therapist, better yet bring your wife to a session.
    I feel what I'm saying here will be unpopular, and that people will disagree, but I have knack for being objective and dispassionate, but support and insightful. You and your wife need to look at this situation in the same way.Open your mind to the possibilities. Maybe that's why she's so distraught, the only possibilities she sees are bad. Show her the good. Show her the happily ever after is possible just different.
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  11. #161
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    A second coming out to my wife

    So I had a therapy session today, and told my therapist that I'm feeling MUCH more positive and much less anxious about transitioning. (An ironic effect of the antianxiety medicines I'm taking - I'd hoped for the opposite, that I'd realize that these thoughts and feelings were symptoms of some other mental illness.)

    My wife asked me what my therapist and I talked about - if my therapist had any opinions about me "going too fast." I dissembled and didn't do a very effective job of deflecting the question, and my wife called me on it.

    So I told her the truth: That I feel a lot better, I'm not having suicidal thoughts, but I'm also a LOT more positive about transition. I don't like being a guy. I want to be a woman. I don't know exactly what form that will take - but I know what direction I must travel, anyway. This was no particular surprise to her - she's always felt that I was kidding myself about trying to find some middle-path.

    I hated telling her all this, even though she already knew it. I feel like I'm made out of razor blades, and everytime I approach her, I cut her to ribbons. It's just awful.

    We'll see where this goes - although one place it isn't going is to bed. Our intimate times together are probably over for good. She just can't feel that way about me anymore. Maybe that will change - I asked her to talk to her therapist, and to see if it would help for us to meet with a counselor as a couple.

    She saw a silohoutte of me dressed today. She peeked in on me in my office. She didn't see much, and she didn't want to see more, but she didn't break down in tears either. So maybe she'll be able to tolerate seeing me dressed at some point.

    It'll be a while before I'm ready to go 24/7. At that point, if she can't handle it, I'll have to move I guess. (Maybe before then.) Sure, it'd be nice to not wear male clothes around the house, but I'll put that off for as long as possible, and present as male for her for as long as I can stand it. I'm thinking it'll be quite some time before I can't stand it - months and months. I don't really see it as being even really necessary until I've been on HRT for quite some time, and it'll be a while before I am able to start that.

    I told her that I'd be happy to tell the kids whenever she's ready to deal with that. She wants to wait a few months, until after our oldest son's wedding. So that means I won't come out to others in my family, or my close friends, for a while. That is kind of a drag - I'm ready to tell my family.

  12. #162
    Aspiring Member TeresaCD's Avatar
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    If nothing else, Paula, you are being honest with her, and yourself.
    At least you are still talking, and she knows how your feel about her.
    Waiting to tell others must suck, I can see why you need to though.
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  13. #163
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    it may be uncomfortable and not what you want but sometimes being held back a some can be a good thing. You can use the time constructively making your plans and to be sure it is what you want to do.

  14. #164
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    I understand why she wants you to wait till after the wedding. But at least she asked to you wait and not to keep quiet entirely. She probably wants to make sure your sons wedding still revolves around him and doesnt want a bunch of gossip surrounding his wedding bliss.

    I am glad to hear that the suicidal thoughts have gone. We are all here for you.

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    @arbon - yes, it's not such a problem waiting to tell them. I have a LOT of stuff to figure out, and there are a ton of things I can do to prepare in the meantime.

    @Greenie - thanks , yes I'm feeling just heaps better, for the first time in months.

    I know this is the right path for me now, I'm certain of this. It is sad that my wife and I won't make it, but that is typical in this situation. I think we'll be good to each other as the marriage unwinds.

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    Some Updates

    My wife and I are seriously talking about how we ultimately unwind our marriage. I want (as does she) for her to prepare for an independent life without me, restarting her career. This will probably take a couple of years to fully realize, but that's OK, my changes will be slow. I don't WANT her to live without me - but being realistic, as I transition, it's very possible we'll reach a point where she simply can no longer tolerate being with me. If and when that happens, I want her to be able to support herself. I intend to continue helping her - but look - something could happen to me, the suicide rate for transgender folks is high. I plan to stick around, but it's best to plan for the worst.

    If our marriage survives in some form, and she decides she really doesn't want to work anymore, it's way easier to quit than it is to launch a career after some personal crisis between the two of us.

    We talked with a financial advisor, and there are complications with launching her career again. It would actually be more financially advantageous to us to legally divorce NOW, even if we stayed together. We talked about this - but she doesn't want to divorce now, she wants to stay together as long as we can. (I tried to point out ways we could protect her, so that when she could no longer deal with me, she wouldn't have to go through a big legal mess at the same time.) She didn't want it, and I am glad.

    This gives me some hope.

    Anyway, we aren't getting divorced anytime soon. We'll find some other way to solve the problem and get her back to work. She has a really good opportunity right now, and she'd be a fool not to take it. There is just no telling how long we'll make it together. I want her to be prepared, even though I desperately do NOT want this to happen, I love her enough to want her to protect herself.

    I talked to my friend who I came out to last weekend tonight. I had sent him my picture, and he thought I looked OK. He's offered to go to a movie or something like that with me sometime. We talked about a bunch of stuff tonight, his stuff, my stuff. He asked lots more questions about what I'm going through. It was a good conversation.

  17. #167
    Senior Member Diversity's Avatar
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    PaulaQ, you absolutely did the right thing to tell her. Now the chains are off and you now have the freedom to continue to have further honest and open discussions. Don't pressure her and give her the time she needs to digest this. Take it slowly and respect any boundries that you both discuss and agree to abide by. Time will yield the answers you both are looking for. Good luck to you both, and please use this forum should you need to bounce anything off of us. You and your wife have a good support team within this forum.
    Di
    PS - The above was in response to the start of your first thread. I now see that you have had subsequent posts. In any event, I wish you both well.
    Last edited by Diversity; 05-25-2013 at 02:54 AM.

  18. #168
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    All good to hear, Paula: that you are talking, and not shying away from dealing with things (either of you)
    You have a lovely avatar picture, too
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  19. #169
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    I must say Paula you have moved very fast it only seems like it was yesterday you were planing to break the news to your wife. My wife and I sincerely hope you both emerge from this happily and you both find some joy. Good luck to both of you. You look great by the way. Take care

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    PQ:

    Nice photo; could be even better with a smile...

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    Thanks flatlander, yeah, I'll improve on self-portraiture! I took those at 2am, after a long night out. I was just too tired to be at my best. I'll do more.

    @Andrea - it has been a crazy ride. I know the odds for me and my wife are bad, really bad. I keep hoping against hope we'll find a way to stay together and both be happy. If that simply can't be, we'll take care of one another as best we can, and be friends.

    Update for today:

    My wife has decided to be strong. We are out of town, at our niece's wedding. We stopped at an outlet mall, and did some shopping. She helped me buy some earrings, and I bought her a necklace. We shipped at coach for some purses, and she got a really pretty yellow bag, and I got a fuchsia one. We had fun, I think. She talked about shopping for Paula, which was the first time she's used my name. She is trying!

    She's strong - really strong. She decided to quit feeling sorry for herself and live.

    She told me tonight that she told her mom about me. It went OK, her mom still loves me. I told her it was OK. I'm not freaked out. Everyone will need to know eventually, and I'm not ashamed anymore. I'm sick of hiding, too.

    I'm ready to be out.

  22. #172
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    Paula, you are so courageous to have undergone such a fluctuating way of coming out to your wife in so short a period. I'll always support you for transition and also send my deep sympathy to your wife, too. I wish you would be always positive and active in your long way to transition.
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    Life in women's dresses, pantyhose, stiletto heels, mini skirts, wigs and gorgeous makeup is so alluring and addictive.
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    Sorry for my prior optimism. We're done. It'll take a while to unwind everything, but my wife unloaded on my yesterday for having the audacity to hope we could somehow have a tiny chance of making it as a couple.

    We will get divorced when it's the least painful for her / least economically disadvantageous.

    We'll have sex because she feels bad about wanting to have an affair.

    We'll separate when I start dressing fulltime, or do something else (god knows, it could be anything) she can't handle. I have zero control over my body, between her, my therapist, and my doctors, I can't change a thing right now. I can depilate, and buy clothes, and talk about stuff. Not that she'll be bothered to learn anything to have any idea whatsoever what I'm talking about. The idea of piercing my ears freaks her out. The idea of voice coaching, or electrolysis (both of which are essentially invisible from her perspective) freaks her out. I can't DO anything.

    In the meantime, she manages who I can talk to, and when. She told her mom over the weekend about me. We didn't discuss this first. She told me about it afterwards. If it had gone badly, she wouldn't have told me at all. (So much for honesty.) I did get a chance to talk to her mom about what's going on, and assured her that I'd take care of her daughter, and get her to be self-supporting. I held out a tiny-sliver of hope we'd make it - but I said I didn't think it was very likely, not in the long run. This pissed off my wife just something fierce. If we don't make it now, somehow that's her fault, because I've told people that I'm willing to try. She made if VERY clear that we have no chance in the long run. We may stay married - but if so, it'll be for financial reasons for her. (It's actually advantageous financially for us to divorce now.) She wants a full report on everything I've said to my therapist. She's going to stop going to hers.

    She's trying - but I think she wants me to fell better about myself so she feels better about herself. This doesn't feel like it's about me a lot. It's about her. Her marriage is ending. It's horrible. (Hello - mine is too!)
    I told her I'd like to talk to my mother. She's worried about that and thinks it's a bad idea!

    I'm sorry, this is all about her.

    So, I'll slow down my transition as much as possible until after our son gets married. I'll work on fixing our financial stuff, and dealing with other crap so that she can get her career going again. (I can assure you, I'll do all the heavy lifting on this.) I'll figure out where in the HELL I'm going to go - I am obviously not going to be able to stay here while I transition. I think I'll put off getting my knee fixed - we've talked about this - but I don't think I want her help anymore. I don't think I want her help with anything anymore.

    I guess I'll have sex with her when she wants it / needs it. I don't even care about it anymore - there is no future in this relationship. I'll keep it together for the sake of our kids for a few months. I'll make a plan and figure out some where to go. Transitioning here will be impossible. Between her, and the locals, there's just no way this works.

    Hopefully that's not too much for her to deal with.

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    After smoking for about 21 years, I quit in 1988. This was back in the days when you could smoke in the workplace. I kept a bag of cashews and a bag of butterscotch candies in my desk at work and did the same at home. As 2 things that I REALLY liked, they were my substitutes. As quitting is a fairly long process, I had a lot of time to think about what was going on.

    What prompted this was that my kids had seen this film at school about the dangers of smoking. They showed these images of autopsied lungs of people who had smoked and died of a smoking related illness. Anyway, it freaked them out and they just KNEW I was going to die.

    So, originally I decided to quit for them. Not a bad reason, but that was my original perspective. However, as the process moved along, what I realized is that the only way for things to work in the long run is that I had to quit for ME and not for THEM. When you do something like this at the behest of someone else, if it fails it isn't your fault. It is theirs. Likewise, if it works, it isn't because you did it, it's because they told you to do it. In one sense, it can take away responsibility for one's actions. On the other, we don't get to enjoy our successes.

    How this ties in:
    If you're doing something in response, make sure you are doing it because you have internalized it and believe it is the correct thing to do at the time. It's never good to be coerced into doing something. It only serves to make us resentful.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by flatlander_48 View Post
    If you're doing something in response, make sure you are doing it because you have internalized it and believe it is the correct thing to do at the time. It's never good to be coerced into doing something. It only serves to make us resentful.
    Oh there'll be puh-lenty of time for resentment later on both sides. For my part, as I give her the house that has equity, and take on the one that she made me buy, that we all ultimately hated, and deal with the dead-beat renters, and as I sell off all my astronomy equipment for pennies on the dollar, and live kinda broke for a long time, while I send her money. I'm fairly sure I'll resent this. I'm not sure yet if I'll resent being alone and having no sex life for the rest of my days. Jury's out on those two. Assuming I survive all this. Who knows? I am not counting on lots o' support. I will be unsurprised if I lose my family, almost entirely. (Kids, mom, sister, etc.) I'll probably resent that stuff. I'll almost certainly resent dealing with all her emotional issues over the years - some of them were pretty bad, but lacking support from her when I need it most.

    On her part, she'll resent me doing this, and leaving her alone. Then later resent me because the guy she eventually marries may have more money than me, but he's kind of a dick. She may resent having to have a job again. She hasn't had much of one in a decade.

    Anyway, I'm not sure what I was ever thinking. How is staying with someone who can't even stand the THOUGHT of me cross dressed even possible while I transition? It just isn't. How is being the only transgendered person in a TINY judgemental, fundamentalist bible-belt town (there are larger high schools than this town) even remotely a good idea?

    It's not going to happen. It was always a dream. I'd hoped we had a slim chance. I now realize there is a 0% probability of us staying together as a couple, or even as friends in the same home. I'll move back to a town I freaking hate and try to get my act together. It's just a question of steering this so that the crash (which is inevitable at this point) does as little damage to us both as possible.

    I dunno, maybe I'll be so overjoyed by my life as a (not real) woman in one of the more trans unfriendly towns in the US (Dallas) and my life alone, with my cat, that my heart will have no room for resentment. Maybe I'll keep my job at least.

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