Depressing setback with my wife . . . .

[Anne2345]

To date, and throughout my "journey," I have been honest with my wife every step of the way. I have kept her informed about what I am doing, why I am doing it, who I am, and what I believe I need to do.

I have been on HRT coming up on four months now. My wife even met with my gender therapist one on one for a number of hours prior to me receiving my letter.

Our relationship, in fact, since I made the decision to pursue HRT, has become the best it has been in a long time. Prior to this decision, I had been depressed, irritable, and suffering from the pain of dysphoria. I was miserable to be around. I couldn't sleep. I was disengaged. I had no energy. I was not productive. I hated myself. And I cared about little about anything.

All of that, however, began to turn around when I made the affirmative decision for myself to seek out HRT. Even better, my wife was on board. We discussed it at length and in great detail. I thought she understood. We both agreed that we want to make our marriage work. Not only for ourselves, but for our eight year old daughter, as well. And our relationship improved dramatically as a result.

Fast forward to today, a few months after my breasts began to develop and grow, of which my wife is also aware of.

Earlier this evening, I mentioned to her that I wanted to have a consultation with a local electrologist to discuss the possibility, cost, and time of beginning electrolysis on my face. Of course, having done my research in advance, I have a pretty good idea of what to expect, but none of that is relevant here.

What is relevant was my wife's reaction. She took the offensive, and asked why I would do that. She stated "where is this all going?" several times.

She also said that if either of us are going to have electrolysis, it would be her, because she "is a real woman," and I am "a man." She referred to herself as a "real woman," and me as "a man," completely and intentionally at my expense several times.

Then she concluded by saying that she "lets" me buy women's clothing without complaint, and "lets" my go out occasionally dressed, and that I should be happy with that.

I don't know. All of this sucks. It really hurt my feelings. She does not see me as a woman. Of course, I get that she thought she thought she had married a man, but it appears that she just views me as some type of glorified crossdresser, and that I can just turn it on and off at will, and be happy with some clothes, some small boobs, and the occasional sojourn out into public.

I mean, she asked repeatedly, "where is this all going??!" Well, where the **** do you THINK it is going???!! Did she not listen to the therapist at all? I have given her books, and other resources to read. She hasn't read any of them. I suppose she is in her own form of denial. I guess I can't blame her for that. But where does that leave me? Where does that leave our family? What does it mean to the progress I need to continue to make.

I'm already about to fall apart at the seams. I have too much pressure on me as it is. I have seriously sick family members I have to be strong for and visit as often as possible. I am the primary caretaker of our daughter. I take care of most of the household stuff. I am barely performing at work. I feel alone and isolated. And this doesn't help. Not one bit. She said no, that shaving my face should be enough, because that's what men do.

Sigh. It's all too much. Especially when my wife takes the position that she is the only "real woman" in the family, and that, at the end of the day, I am just nothing but a mere, stupid, disillusioned "man" who she thinks should be fine living in fantasy land with the few concessions she has offered me.

:-(

[stefan37]

Anne, My heart goes out to you. Your wife is in the denial phase and the physical changes you are experiencing is more than likely as my wife said to me freaking her out. My wife picked up real early that my skin texture changed and the developing breast put her over the edge. She tried her best, but although I still look male, to her I am a woman and she cannot live with a woman intimately. I know how much it hurts. We now sleep in separate beds. It pains me to think I hurt her and ruined her plans of our future together.

Your wife is going through the same process. The physical changes are real and that reality is sinking in that her future with you as a male will be no more. My wife actually handled electrolysis better than the HRT. I had 6 months of electro before starting hormones. This is a medical condition and your gid is severe. You need to take the steps necessary to ensure your health. you will experience many emotional days ahead, and the hurt that goes along with it. And trust me it is painful. Concentrate on your progress and take comfort that you are moving toward a healthier place. Give your wife all the support you can, she will need it. It is a shame there are many types of support available to us, yet support for our wives is sparse. mainly because most wives just split. For yourself unfortunately the pain will be real and you will have to persevere with all the resolve you can muster to get through it. You can call me anytime and I will help you get through it if I can. I want you to know you are not alone. Many of us have gone or are going through exactly what you are now. No one said this was easy and the losses may be great. Keep your eye on your target goal and you both will get through ok.

It will not be easy. but as a friend said to me this past Sunday as I was experiencing an extremely emotional day, "emotional days are our thing, that's what we do. I will also relate something my employee said to me the other day when I told him my wife and I are sleeping in separate beds. I said to him this is the beginning of the end,m and he responded no " it is the beginning of the beginning. This will not be easy and you and your wife will experience much pain and hurt, but we are here to help you get through in one piece and that is what is most important.

[mikiSJ]

It appears that your wife is finally understanding where you want to go and was not prepared for the reality of your decision(s). Time for a girl to girl chat with the emphasis on girl.

[Eryn]

If you're on HRT it seems rather obvious where "this is all going." Perhaps she is hoping against hope that the man she married will return. there may be a point where your relationship will become untenable for her.

I'm the other way around from your situation. I'm not considering HRT but I have been doing electrolysis on my face. A hairless face is attractive in both modes. Think of all those razor ads showing women caressing their man's smooth chin approvingly!

While I like my feminine side, I realize that my masculine side is important to my wife so I won't abandon it. She has altered the path of her life to help me along my journey and I feel that it is my responsibility to make sure that my path is not so divergent that it leaves her alone.

[Rogina B]

Seems to me that you didn't lay down a very strong "foundation of understanding" as to how important all of this is to YOU. Now you are paying for that shortcut...

[Anne2345]

Rogina, what "shortcut" do you think I have taken here??!! As I explained in the OP, I have been honest with my wife step by step. She has even met with my therapist who discussed in great detail what all of this could mean. I am on HRT. My skin is growing considerably softer, I keep my body free of hair, I am growing breasts. I keep an open dialogue with my wife. I have encouraged her multiple times to see a therapist herself. I have provided her books and written resources. I haven't held anything back. She knows I have come out to friends and family. She knows I go to TS support groups in another state because there are none her. She knows I have been in intensive therapy over these issues for almost two years now. She has seen me break down crying multiple times.

So what the hell shortcut do you see that I am taking and that I am paying for now??? I even let her read my posts I submit here. What the **** more can I do??!! What more of a foundation can I lay??! Did you even read my post for comprehension??!!

Sheesh. Shortcuts??! Are you KIDDING me??!! I mean seriously??!! Wtf kind of response was that??!!

[LeaP]

You don't always reap what you sow, and in this case the soil doesn't seem particularly rich. So you try more seed, more fertilizer, more water, more care, and the yield is still low. If you're really determined, you'll keep trying - hybrids, genetically modified stocks, perhaps. Or you go in the other direction, organic, even biodynamics.

In the end, you cannot force the earth to yield what it will not. Thing is, all soils are natively hospitable to certain things. You can only push that so far, unless you go so far as to change its very composition. At that point, how kind have you been to the earth?

Sometimes - sometimes - time makes things work as the soil and plants work together to modify the growing environment in the natural cycle. But there are no guarantees.

You've taken no shortcuts.

[Badtranny]

Annie, both of my marriages ended long before I began transition, though the second one did end when I came out as gay, but anyhoo, I can't relate to your situation except to feel for you as a sister.

This is the thing about transition, at some point, ...shits gonna get real. Just do yourself a favor and make damn sure you're ready for it.

F all of us tranny broads on this forum, do what's right for you. Nobody here has any stake in your life, and if your wife leaves you, then what?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

So Sorry Anne. Are you truly surprised at her reaction? Perhaps you were hoping this day would come much later.

As the info keeps piling in for her she has put up a wall. It's all very natural and although its not good it's not the end of story. Clearly she has not internalized the situation as much as you hoped.

Your in the moment decisions about this will be important. If you back off you send one message....and every step you take will be met with the same response. ..if you compassionately share that electrolysis is going to happen (and perhaps she could doit as well?) you drive home the reality of it all for her and that will have a big impact in your relationship.

To me I would thnk given your particulars, electrolysis would be a very constructive thing for you. It does not finalize any commitment but its significant progress.

[Tracy Lynn]

Hi Anne,

This sounds very similar to what I went through with my ex wife. I told her who I was and how I felt 15 years into our marriage so it was quite the shocker to her. But I felt confident in our marriage because she said she wanted to stay together and work things out....she said it didn't matter because I am still the same person which made me hopeful things would work out. I too bought countless books for her to read which she never did...joined support groups which she never attended and 5 years after I told her and wanted to start transition she said she doesn't understand. Well how could she...she never really tried. I guess she was in denial that I was somehow going to change back into the man that she married which was Not going to happen.

I started seeing a therapist that made me see that as well as the rest of the people in my life...I deserve to be happy. To me that meant starting my journey of transition into becoming the woman I am today. That was when my marriage started falling apart. We both wanted 2 different things out of life. She wanted a husband and I wanted to be a woman. Back then I was so selfish of her feelings and couldn't understand why after all the times she said she wanted to stay together, now she was having a problem with my transition.

We agreed to separate back in January 2012 and it was the best decision we made. I'm not saying that it would be right for you, just saying it worked for us. Don't get me wrong, we loved each other very much...we were together for 22 years. We honestly thought that we could make it work. But in the end, it was our happiness, each as an individual that mattered most. Why should she be in a marriage to a woman when want she really wanted was a man. Why should I be in a marriage where I couldn't be myself and be comfortable with who I was.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you can't be mad at her for feeling the way she does. This decision you are making is rocking her world to say the least. You can't expect her to agree to all of these changes you are making and why should she. On the other hand you can't hold back who you want to be. You both deserve happiness and so does your daughter. She deserves to have 2 parents that are happy and not miserable. Life doesn't always stay the same, it changes constantly and change isn't always a bad thing. I hope you find happiness.

Peace and Love ~ Tracy

[LeaP]

Your in the moment decisions about this will be important. If you back off you send one message....and every step you take will be met with the same response. ..if you compassionately share that electrolysis is going to happen (and perhaps she could doit as well?) you drive home the reality of it all for her and that will have a big impact in your relationship.
.

Good advice.

I'm curious about your earlier question about hoping this would come later. What did you mean by that?

[Barbara Ella]

Anne, I am sorry to read this, as I know the steps you have taken. I fear the same reaction from my wife as we begin to discuss the future progression that is possible in the coming years. I am lucky in that my wife gave up her interest in physical male intimacy over a dozen years ago, but the clinging to the "man" in her life will be difficult as this is the issue that has clouded her knowledge of who I really am to date.

Her response, in light of the educational opportunities provided leads to the conclusion that your discussions, and the therapists discussions just did not resonate with her. I don't know if you observed the "light" going on during your discussions or not, just an observation to help explain why she reacted as she did, knowing it would be so hurtful.

This is rough on you, and will require yet another example of your strength and resolve. I pray you have a reserve, and that your wife realizes it might be an overreaction. Give her some time, but I know you cannot give up who you really are.

Barbara

[Stephanie47]

Miki, I am totally in agreement with you. Sometimes marital partners take a long time to grow apart. Frankly, a partner going to a therapist and reading every book stacked on the table will not change anything. It does not take a lot of book reading for a person to see where this marriage is headed. I am not trying to be rude. There are serious issues on the table. You are wanting her to go in a direction she obviously is not comfortable taking. Sometimes it takes years for a woman to realize the marriage is not what she bought into. I will agree she should not be rude. But, how does she lash out in her frustrations? She should not expect you to change. And, you should not expect her to go along as your co-pilot with you piloting the plane. And, a failing marriage held together for the supposed benefit of the kids does not work at all for the child. You really need to have that talk with your wife.

It appears that your wife is finally understanding where you want to go and was not prepared for the reality of your decision(s). Time for a girl to girl chat with the emphasis on girl.

[Persephone]

It appears that you are getting a lot of contradictory advice and a few suggestions, some good, some bad, but all, no doubt, with the best of intentions.

You are a long-term valued member of this community, Anne, and as you work through this very difficult time there are some of us here who will try our best to help simply by listening.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[ReineD]

Anne it does sound as if she's in denial. I know that you gave her all the resources, but did either you or your therapist say outright that you are a woman and that you are moving towards a full transition? If when you did have that conversation, you weren't quite sure yet how far it would go, then likely your wife hung on to the hope that this is just a phase. I'm guessing it has been two steps forward and one step back with you over the last 5-6 years, and her own journey will be similar.

She may be able to turn it around. Just please keep talking to her. Tell her how her comments made you feel. Maybe the two of you can keep ploughing through all of this.

[Kathryn Martin]

Your in the moment decisions about this will be important. If you back off you send one message....and every step you take will be met with the same response. ..if you compassionately share that electrolysis is going to happen (and perhaps she could doit as well?) you drive home the reality of it all for her and that will have a big impact in your relationship.

I think this is great advice. I also believe that it will bring home the reality of your life, and that can sometimes have very negative results. I think you might be at a stage where it is increasingly more important to bring the the full measure of what you need to her. It is obvious from your description of her reaction that she is denying your reality. To what extent that is a failure of your telling or a failure of her listening is unclear to me. But as always in these situations it is our responsibility to be open and take the full brunt of what that brings back from those that we love. It is an incredibly painful time. Prevarication and mixed messages born from fear don't help. In fact the drippy disclosure (at least at the point where you are now) makes it worse. As Kaitelyn says advancing and backing off in the hope that we can get our partners there eventually creates distrust because we lull our partners into a false sense of security of "it may not be so bad". But that is exactly what creates the "I let you do this or that" kind of view. This complete laying bare of what the truth is cannot be a negotiation. And once done, we are not the only drivers of the bus.

With you..........

[Rogina B]

What more of a foundation can I lay??! Did you even read my post for comprehension??!!

Sheesh. Shortcuts??! Are you KIDDING me??!! I mean seriously??!! Wtf kind of response was that??!!

Sorry,but I have great reading comprehension skills..I don't believe the physical effects of HRT was properly shown and explained to her.That wouldn't be important,but you value her support,as your post reads.She obviously believed that the HRT was merely a happy pill for you similar in results to antidepressants for others.Now your booblets have flipped a switch because she hadn't seen booblets from HRT therapy before.Foundation is an issue because you say that you have been under agreement as to how much "Anne" you could have..To me,limits like that are bizarre in that you are of the mindset to alter your body,yet still at the pantythriller level with your wife's understanding of your T mindset.So,I think you gave your wife the short version of the story.

[melissaK]

I don't know Sweetie. You said "it really hurt my feelings" and you have all my empathy and sympathy.

But now you need to break down those hurt feelings of yours. You list out a bunch of consequences that will be the impact of her making choices for herself, inabil;ity of you to continue running the household for everyone and your daughter, inability for you to support extended family, inability of you to keep being the main wage earner, loss of perhaps your own job. And all that I can characterize as impact on OTHERS.

In that OP I didn't see you use the word LOVE, and what it means to YOU to lose someone YOU love. You might need to attribute the enumerated fears as a cover-up of your own fear that you can't cope with her rejection of you. Like it or not, some part of your self worth is determined by her view of you, and her love for you. Thats the way it is between lovers.

I tried to write about this in my post on your last "Where do I Fit In" thread. How those we TS are in love with, are the only ones who we have let see our TS self - the personality behind the clothes. And I tried to discuss how rejection by them of us after we change gender clothes, and after we change sex hormone determined body markers, is a rejection of "us." And because we have no one else who has ever been able to see "us," it leaves us really really alone. We are vulnerable at this time. A cisgendered has a host of friends, some real close ones, who like them because they have always been them. We don't have this same reservoir of trusted friends, and until we finish transition its tough to get them.

Misty (Bad Tranny, aka the other Melissa) warns above, in her succinct to the point style, "Just do yourself a favor and make damn sure you're ready for it."

And if you are in love with your wife, and you believe in love, then you had best do what lovers do to reconcile, they confide, they touch, they woe. They take each others hearts in their hands and they shoulder the responsibility it entails. And maybe it means you slow down and let her catch-up and absorb and grow comfortable with the changes to date before you press on with more transition steps. If it's possible, like Lea said, it's a formulae that will be unique to you and her. And unfortunately, like Lea said it can go the way of Stefanie's life - separate beds.

It can be beyond heartbreaking. My wife and I struggle every day with this. At least once a week I am certain my life is over, at least once a week I am certain my life is wonderful and perfect. And what those oscillations are, is each of us being afraid, then coming to grips with, our changing relationship. So the process will be as long as my transition if she stays for it all.

And I want to emphasize you introduced a new item, electrolysis. It might have been on the cruise ship port of call itinerary like Cancun is, but like any traveler on board, you can't "feel" Cancun until the cruise ship stops and you disembark and go walk through it.

Be patient with the feelings you each experience with each new item, each new change. Take them one at a time. Be kind to her and to yourself as you work through the changes. (I'm cutting and pasting that into an email to myself for advice I need to give myself, cause F@^% it is hard). :-)

[Michelle.M]

Seems to me that you didn't lay down a very strong "foundation of understanding" as to how important all of this is to YOU. Now you are paying for that shortcut...

Rogina, you're not paying attention to what Anne is saying and I think your comments are unfounded and, to be honest, a bit cruel.

Anne, many others here have pointed out what is (to us) obvious. Your transition is getting real and your wife is getting scared (she was most likely in denial up until now). I hope that the time she went to therapy with you was not a one-time thing. Try to engage her in your transition as much as she'll allow.

Several members here have transitioned in the context of a functional marriage and their marriages have survived. I read somewhere that 85% of marriages survive a gender transition. Yours could be one of them.

Hang in there, keep her engaged and try to avoid warfare. Divorce is not inevitable, and this could end well for both of you!

[Sara Jessica]

This is the post I've been waiting for. Not because of the pain which is being conveyed but instead, how one navigates TS waters while in a marriage is something that is real in my own personal situation and I take in everything I can from what others share in this regard.

Early on in your "transition" postings, I would raise the question "but what about your SO?", in so many words. This is particularly relevant with respect to HRT and your ability to still be a husband to your wife from more than one POV. Was she on board for this? Did she truly understand what it would all mean?

I have oft expressed my concerns for the ability of a marriage to survive a TS spouse. It's not impossible but it doesn't seem to be a probable outcome either. And my concerns are multiplied immensely when there is a deep desire to make it work on the part of the TS partner to the point where it would be to one's detriment if the marriage fell apart.

Are you prepared for that possibility?

My personal answer would be no, hence my decision to navigate the TS waters along a current I call a middle path.

I would think electrolysis would be of a lesser concern than sprouting breasts of your very own. Maybe it's the enormity of it all that is finally getting to her but regardless, your wife says the same thing mine often does...

"Where is this leading to???"

So do you know the answer to this question? Does she know?

My thoughts are always with you Anne, sincerely hoping for the best for you.

[Sara Jessica]

Several members here have transitioned in the context of a functional marriage and their marriages have survived. I read somewhere that 85% of marriages survive a gender transition. Yours could be one of them.

Really? I'd like to see where that stat comes from. Sounds like something out of fantasy fiction if you ask me.

While I have no statistic to back it up (which is why I would never quote a percentage), real life observations suggest the percentage of marriages which survive transition is quite low.

So please, share where the 85% comes from so I can show my wife...and she could then promptly remind me that if I go there, I will most certainly be part of the 15%.

[Annaliese]

I have been following your story, you have been straight forward with your wife, I think the reality is it finely hit her and she lost it, stay strong keep on track in the long run it is the best for both of you. The way you were getting thing would not have lasted anyway. You are one the best road for you and your family. good luck and hugs

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Seems to me that you didn't lay down a very strong "foundation of understanding" as to how important all of this is to YOU. Now you are paying for that shortcut...

Just saying this right up front, I didn't bring this up, I thought it, but didn't...I waited.

I figured this issue would happen eventually ...I know I should have warned Anne more strongly than I did.

Rogina, what "shortcut" do you think I have taken here??!! As I explained in the OP, I have been honest with my wife step by step. She has even met with my therapist who discussed in great detail what all of this could mean.

Anne, Anne, Anne, I do hate saying this but you are notorious for leaving things unsaid, using flowery language that obscures meaning, sidestepping the point, beating around the bush and NOT being direct using the words you need to be using. Did you ever use the words "I'm a transsexual and want to transition" with your wife. Because if you didn't she might have interpreted things differently.

I am on HRT. My skin is growing considerably softer, I keep my body free of hair, I am growing breasts.

Yes, but have you actually said the word "transsexual" and "transition" with her, or have you been avoiding doing so?

I have encouraged her multiple times to see a therapist herself.

But has she done so?

I have provided her books and written resources.

That's not the same as saying the things directly yourself and can be an avoidance maneuver. "She'll read these and I won't have to directly confront her." You also should get her on these boards or at least get her a phone or e-mail contact with one of the SO's here or something.

[quote She knows I have been in intensive therapy over these issues for almost two years now. She has seen me break down crying multiple times. [/quote]

Yes, but that doesn't mean she understands you're a transsexual.

I even let her read my posts I submit here.

That won't help, because your posts are vague and flowery and don't use the words you need to be using.

What the **** more can I do??!! What more of a foundation can I lay??!

Quit beating around the bush and be direct. I know the other is easier because it avoids arguments/confrontation/anger, but it's not the best way to handle it.

I know that you gave her all the resources, but did either you or your therapist say outright that you are a woman and that you are moving towards a full transition? If when you did have that conversation, you weren't quite sure yet how far it would go, then likely your wife hung on to the hope that this is just a phase.

Exactly!

She obviously believed that the HRT was merely a happy pill for you similar in results to antidepressants for others.......To me,limits like that are bizarre in that you are of the mindset to alter your body,yet still at the pantythriller level with your wife's understanding of your T mindset.So,I think you gave your wife the short version of the story.

Yes, I think so too, to avoid taking the hard path to direct confrontation.

Rogina, you're not paying attention to what Anne is saying and I think your comments are unfounded and, to be honest, a bit cruel.

Anne's always had this problem of being vague and engaging in avoidance techniques. She's just not good at confronting things directly...took for-ev-er to get her to admit that she was yes, transgendered and yes a transsexual.

I hope that the time she went to therapy with you was not a one-time thing. Try to engage her in your transition as much as she'll allow.

I agree!

Veronica

[Michelle.M]

So please, share where the 85% comes from so I can show my wife...

Yeah, I'm looking all over for it. That's why I said "I read somewhere".

Even lacking hard data, one need look no further than this very site. Several of our members are still married following transition. Jennifer Boylan describes her transition in the context of her marriage in her book "She's Not There" and she's still married. I personally know several couples who are doing just fine while the transitioner is in various stages of transition and I know a few more who were married after transition had begun.

I'll report back when I find the source of that number, but the real proof will come from the real life examples we observe and the ones we actually manage to become ourselves.

...and she could then promptly remind me that if I go there, I will most certainly be part of the 15%.

If that's what she wants then that's what will happen. And although it seems inevitable that a marriage will break up over a transition the anecdotal evidence would seem to contradict that.

But that's just how I see things. I have always been one to make my own luck and to forge my own destiny. I don't accept anything as a given until I have failed at all other alternative outcomes.

Rogina, you're not paying attention to what Anne is saying and I think your comments are unfounded and, to be honest, a bit cruel.

Anne's always had this problem of being vague and engaging in avoidance techniques. She's just not good at confronting things directly...took for-ev-er to get her to admit that she was yes, transgendered and yes a transsexual.

Veronica, please don't muck this thread up with attacks on Anne and a compilation of all of her forum posting inconsistencies. I understood exactly what she was saying and she's addressing a valid point. If all you want to do is show off your tendency toward historical accuracy and if you can't offer any constructive input than perhaps you might sit this one out.

[MysticLady]

Anne, my heart goes out to you. Its very difficult to deal with this at times especially when a loved spouse is involved. Sometimes trying to help her with her feelings while not completely handling your own is not healthy either. When I tried to help my wife her with her feelings and neglect mine I became a very not nice person. That certainly did not help the relationship. Now that we're separated I believe that she's at least trying to understand me even if its slightly but I feel that every spouses nightmare is that her man,especially if married for a while, is becoming someone she most definitly did not marry and will have trouble being married too,because of the fact that they are not lesbian and have no thoughts of becoming one. I wish you and your wife peace of mind while you sort this out.