Depressing setback with my wife . . . .

[VeronicaMoonlit]

I think it is human nature to avoid unpleasant truths when those truths come with unpleasant consequences.

By the sound of your wife's words she was accommodating you without understanding the gravity of gender dysphoria.

Yes, Indeed.

It is simply not possible to live this way for long. Sooner or later something will break inside you.

I agree.

You live between depression and numbness with moments of happiness that almost resembles bi-polar and borderline personality disorder.

Ahh, I see you noticed that too, it also reminded me of manic-depressive behavior. It very much worries me.

You pay in pain to escape pain. There is no other way.

Ah, what a brilliant turn of phrase.

It's actually funny in a way, one reason being that it is such a male posture when a woman has an issue to assign responsibility to the husband. "Poor woman – couldn't possibly be her. It must be him ... the jerk. "

But the truth is, in this situation, both Anne and her wife are women. :-) Anne isn't male, which is the issue behind all the other issues here.

assumes that what Anne has said to her wife is anything like what she writes here. I have to tell you that that is a pretty unthinking assumption. Very few people expose too much that is too personal or too detailed on an open Internet forum. But you also have to be able to read detail into different styles of writing.

While I do agree that there are differences....there are and have been patterns of behavior in regards to various apsects of this thing of o urs.. One common pattern we see is "avoidance". It is not comical at all to assume avoidance played a role, because it has both in this and other situations.

Anne, you write in a very emotional style, but it carries a tremendous amount of information.

I have to disagree, it carries much emotional information, but not as much "factual" information. It is hard to get direct answers out of Anne and that makes it hard to figure out what is going on.

So what to make of the OP? I take it that you said little about communications between you and your wife because, in your view, they have been than adequate and extensive besides.

Interesting, I came to the opposite conclusion in part because I had seen patterns of avoidance. To me it was more like "Anne doesn't mention communication because she hasn't directly told her wife that she want's to transition."

I know that there was a time, as there was for most of us, when you did hold back and hide. I am also aware that ended quite a while ago. Everything has been on the table for a while.

No, it hasn't ended, sad to say and everything hasn't been on the table. More on that later.

In this, you deserve no blame. Neither, by the way, does your wife.

I must disagree strongly, at least in part. Blame can't be assigned for Anne being transgendered. Blame cannot be assigned for Anne and her wife's feelings. But blame CAN be assigned when action or inaction causes the problems to continue or get worse. Feelings can't be controlled, but actions can be. In this case, both Anne and her wife is to blame. If Anne's wife was on these boards, I would be saying certain things to her as well in regards to avoidance and denial and refusing to educate herself.

In the context of transsexuals no one seems to get the notion that this is a no fault environment.

I do not agree with that at all. If one's actions make a situation worse, then there is blame involved. For example if I accidentally stick my hand in a fire, there is no fault. but If repeatedly and intentionally stick my hand in a fire, whose fault is it if I get burned....it is mine.

I agree with those here that propose that neither I nor my wife are at fault. I do not blame her for her feelings. She didn't sign up for this. But I didn't sign up for this, either. So it's not like I am going out of my way to intentionally sabotage or tank my marriage.

But what about your actions or inactions? Did they make the situation better or worse?

And in the end, after I have gone completely insane and lost my mind, who will that serve?

Enought with that rhetoric, lady. You are NOT losing your mind. You know your mind, you just are in deep anguish about the current situation.

at least at some level, that it would serve my daughter by the simple fact that I will not have done something stupid like slit my wrists and check out.

Please, I beg of you don't say or think of such things. I want you to promise me you won't do that....and promise me you'll keep the number of a suicide hotline near the phone.

Several of you have asked whether I have told my wife point blank whether I am transsexual and that I plan on transitioning.

Yes we have asked.

As for admitting to her the actual word that I am transsexual. Yes. I have. On many, many occasions. In this regard, she is under no illusions.

And to be blunt again. Please, refrain from semantical word games, it doesn't help us, or you.

What I have not told her, however, is that I do plan on transitioning to a woman. At least, I haven't done so yet.

And there it is. The crux of the situation. Why not? And shouldn't you have done so BEFORE you started HRT? I should have discouraged you from starting HRT too soon and you did, before you or your wife were prepared and you started BEFORE your wife had full knowledge of the implications and situation.

But this is for a very good reason. Well, perhaps it's not a good reason, but it is a reason, nonetheless. That being, I have yet to tell or admit to myself that I am going to transition.

I'm having a "What the Heck, Heroine" moment. If that's your eason, then why did you start HRT? If you're not ready to admit that to yourself or others, you're not ready for HRT. HRT causes visible changes! It starts the snowball rolling down the hill.

Or perhaps more accurately, I am not sure if I am ready to accept and admit what I am going to do yet.

Come now, that must be rhetorical. You started hormones, you wanted "something", an dyou know in no uncertain terms that the effects aren't just mental.

Either right or wrong, even though my actions, thoughts, feelings, emotions, and needs all suggest otherwise, I want to make my life work as it is. Except for the part that I do not want it to work as is, because I know that it cannot work as is. Lol. Kinda f'ed up, huh? Well, this whole thing is f'ed up.

Yes it is ****ed up. You know you can't have it both ways, that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Your wife's basic feelings on this matter were obvious from the start which is why you've been doing the avoidance of not telling her you want to transition, because you most certainly DO want to transition.

Perhaps I am hoping that some day soon I will just wake up and all of this will have passed.

You know that's not going to happen.

Until and unless it does, though, I am failing life miserably as is. I cannot continue to sustain this over the long run. Just for example, I am barely functional at work as it is. I wouldn't be surprised if I walked into the office tomorrow and was fired on the spot for lack of production. Even worse, I recognize this, yet I hardly even care. How stupid is THAT??!!!

First off, Leave of Absense, take one, NOW. I want you to go to work tomorrow and take a leave of absense, personal days, use your vactiona...whatever because you need to deal with "all of that" now....Losing your job will make this much harder. Then you need some serious help and you and your wife need to see your gender counselor tomorrow. and I do mean tomorrow...and you need to say those words. "I want to transition"

Yes I realize what will probably happen...but y ou need to do that and right quick. You can't keep this up. the frequent angst threads mixed with the jokey threads are a serious symptom. And you also need to start a journal thread in the safe haven.

I can be stubborn about what I am ready or willing to admit or accept about myself. I recognize this.

I know...sigh.

"Where is all of this leading to?"

That is one hell of a question.

That is obviously a rhetorical question because you KNOW where this is going, you're just engaging in avoidance and not wanting to admit the answer. Well it's long past time that you should have done so.

That is one hell of a question but it is a rhetorical one. And sorry, love you know it too.

Indeed.

Veronica

[LeaP]

But the truth is, in this situation, both Anne and her wife are women. :-) Anne isn't male, which is the issue behind all the other issues here.
...
While I do agree that there are differences....there are and have been patterns of behavior in regards to various apsects of this thing of o urs.. One common pattern we see is "avoidance". It is not comical at all to assume avoidance played a role, because it has both in this and other situations.
...
I have to disagree, it carries much emotional information, but not as much "factual" information. It is hard to get direct answers out of Anne and that makes it hard to figure out what is going on.
...
Interesting, I came to the opposite conclusion in part because I had seen patterns of avoidance. To me it was more like "Anne doesn't mention communication because she hasn't directly told her wife that she want's to transition."

Excerpt 1 - I was referring to the responses in the thread - not to Anne and her wife.

Excerpt 2 - Anne has confirmed that the communication has been as complete as it can be. You are quite simply incorrect. Rather than make assumptions, as you've now confirmed you have, perhaps you should ask. You may get an answer, you may be told its none of your business ... or you may be given a general confirmation, as in this case. If you prefer not to accept that at face value, even as a discussion point, you've effectively ended the exchange. Few will tolerate that kind of judgement except from the closest of confidantes and often not even then. I have asked many times (which Anne can confirm, if she cares to). The answer isn't often in the thread, to my point on privacy concerns.

Excerpt 3 - You are incorrect ... and correct. Information - data - isn't in the emotional message. It's in the context, its symbolism, in how themes mix and overlap and collide in Anne ... and in those to whom she is close. The language is rich indeed, nuanced, fine-grained, playful, and evocative. It's also far more direct and less flowery than you apparently believe. Do you believe Genesis is about eating apples and poetry about rhyme and meter?

Excerpt 4 - One cannot tell what they do not know. For whatever reason. Also, many, many people take hormones who never transition. There are some who post here regularly, as you should know. Others start then stop. Some transition but take years before moving from hormones to other steps. There is no single, correct solution or sequence. Judging Anne based on transition assumptions and scenarios that are not hers is intrusive and judgemental.

[arbon]

There has been a lot of wisdom shared. I look at the dilemma of being trans, possibly transitioning, when you are in a long term committed relationship with someone you really love. There is nothing easy about, it gets very emotional, very messes, mean things are said.

My secret to success - I quit trying to save the marriage, I let go. I basically gave it to her to figure out what was going to be in her best interest to do and I would support her in whatever that was. To me seperation / divorce was imminent. But it is kind of weird the way it all worked out - I mean several times divorce was coming and she was going to go live with her mom, get could not wait to be away from me. and she could really let her anger and frustration out on me verbally, she could barb her words and make them hurt. But at the same time she was being my biggest allie - she would stand up and defend me from my family and friends and others in the community. She always had my back and has supported me in whatever I had to do to transition. She did not try to deny me that. I am one of the few lucky ones, we are , surprisingly still together through all the ups and downs (though sleeping in different rooms now). We are still very much connected and love each other. And the other night she said something that warmed my heart - "I think I am becoming ok with you being a woman now"

So yes, some relationships survive - but there can still be big bumps in the road and it can take to all settle.

[DaniG]

Seems to me that you didn't lay down a very strong "foundation of understanding" as to how important all of this is to YOU. Now you are paying for that shortcut...

It's entirely possible that Anne and her therpist laid everything out in and much blunt detail as humanly possible, and Anne's wife fully acknowledged at the time that she understood, and, either she did, or she was already in denial.

Denial is an incredibly powerful mechanism. When I stood back and witnessed the sheer power of my own mind's denial of my TG nature, I was in complete awe. I describe it to others as psychotic denial, because my subconscious literally disconnected me from any reality where it didn't want me to see something. The human mind is amazing. She may very well be in this type of deep state of denial.

[Lynnmorgan451]

And the other night she said something that warmed my heart - "I think I am becoming ok with you being a woman now"

I pray to hear this very thing from my wife. You are so lucky.

[Lynnmorgan451]

I went back and read your original post cuz I think things got a little off sub.... And just wanted to tell you that the GG effect is consistent across the board. Women that are okay with something one minute and not okay the next....ya happened to me, too...actually every day it's something else. I get a lot of crap from people on this site because I was honest HERE about lying to my wife in order to protect OUR best interests..
Every one of us is in a unique situation totally different from one another yet our common thread brings us together. I figured out, painfully true, but for real listen to this...

The reason why my wife was okay with stuff the first time we talked about it and is NOT okay with stuff now:::
SHE WASN'T EVEN LISTENING

And that's the f*cking truth of it all.....

[LeaP]

... the GG effect is consistent across the board. Women that are okay with something one minute and not okay the next....

That's true with all people, not just GGs. Theory collides with reality, emotion confounds logic, judgement corrodes empathy, self interest trumps altruism, desire overcomes habit, temptation destroys will, and context conflicts with context. People are complex enough by themselves and in relationships infinitely more so. We judge other people's apparent lack of consistency by the standard of our own thinking - but no-one else thinks as we do.

[arbon]

I kept having to rehave the conversation with my wife about what I was doing - I don't think it was about her not listening, but she did go through periods of denial - this is not really happening! , and she went through lots of grief. I think as I would reach each new step - hormones, hair removal, going out around town - she would think this is it, thats going to be enough, he's going to realize he does not want to do this and he's going to come back to being my husband and father of our daughter now! Thats what she kept wanting to believe. So with each new stage I was going through we would come back to that very emotional point and go through it all again - sometimes as if we had never had the previous conversations. This is really what I am doing, I am not going back - and she would be back to square one trying to accept it, and often back into anger and grief.

[Stephanie47]

I've been following this thread. I am somewhat disturbed about some of the phrases extensively used. I am, for lack of a better term, a recreational cross dresser in a Don't Ask, Don't Tell marriage. My wife chooses not to participate. I can truly recognize the plight of several of the posters' comments concerning transitioning. I can understand the necessity to be oneself and that will include body modification. The usage of 'denial' on the woman's part really irks me. Just asking as the devil's advocate,

Just what does the woman/wife get out of this?

The entire conversation seems to be about "What the man gets out of it!"

[Rianna Humble]

Stephanie, I realise that as a recreational cross-dresser you have no frame of reference to understand what is being discussed in this thread.

There is no man in this thread. Only a transwoman and her wife.

What the wife gets out of it is a live and functioning partner.

[Lynnmorgan451]

because she "is a real woman," and I am "a man." She referred to herself as a "real woman," and me as "a man," completely and intentionally at my expense several times.

Then she concluded by saying that she "lets" me buy women's clothing without complaint, and "lets" my go out occasionally dressed, and that I should be happy with that.

:-(

This is every day....she is constantly reassuring me that I am NOT a woman and look ridiculous in women's clothes.....every day omg

[ubokvt]

Give it time
As a point of reference, I am in a committed relationship. We have been married for 11yrs, I came out 7 yrs ago. Like many, I started as a CD and well….I started HRT 4 yrs ago after trying everything else. My wife and I go to therapy together, both for trans issues and the marriage and they are separate issues but so intimately entwined you would never know it, like sex and gender. My partner started out as tolerate, I won’t say accepting, and it has been a long, long, journey for both of us and trust me we are just beginning.
If you want to keep the relationship you have to put that first. You have to give her time, and accept it will take time, years. You have had all your life to come to this point, to work through the issues, to deal with your emotions, and the judgments of self and others, How long has she had. To ask her to make the journey in months, a year is to ask the impossible, you didn’t do that in that time period. So give her time to grow, to work the issues out, to see you are still the same person despite the breasts , to see if she can love and lay with a woman. Give her time, give yourself time, You’ve just stated to live it. Both of you will change so much, if you can, and understand for every 2 steps forward there will be one back. Give up on judgments, practice patience and tolerance, and be to her the friend you never had to work this out in her life.

[suzy1]

Excerpt 1 - I was referring to the responses in the thread - not to Anne and her wife.

Excerpt 2 - Anne has confirmed that the communication has been as complete as it can be. You are quite simply incorrect. Rather than make assumptions, as you've now confirmed you have, perhaps you should ask. You may get an answer, you may be told its none of your business ... or you may be given a general confirmation, as in this case. If you prefer not to accept that at face value, even as a discussion point, you've effectively ended the exchange. Few will tolerate that kind of judgement except from the closest of confidantes and often not even then. I have asked many times (which Anne can confirm, if she cares to). The answer isn't often in the thread, to my point on privacy concerns.

Excerpt 3 - You are incorrect ... and correct. Information - data - isn't in the emotional message. It's in the context, its symbolism, in how themes mix and overlap and collide in Anne ... and in those to whom she is close. The language is rich indeed, nuanced, fine-grained, playful, and evocative. It's also far more direct and less flowery than you apparently believe. Do you believe Genesis is about eating apples and poetry about rhyme and meter?

Excerpt 4 - One cannot tell what they do not know. For whatever reason. Also, many, many people take hormones who never transition. There are some who post here regularly, as you should know. Others start then stop. Some transition but take years before moving from hormones to other steps. There is no single, correct solution or sequence. Judging Anne based on transition assumptions and scenarios that are not hers is intrusive and judgemental.

You beat me to it Lea.

But I know Veronica means well.

[Stephanie47]

I am fully aware of what's being discussed in this thread. I did not fall off the turnip truck last week. I've been around for more than six decades and have kept abreast (no pun intended) of what goes on in the world. "What the wife gets out of it is a live and functioning partner." That's no more than saying the wife should embrace what is thrown her way. It's a position of take it or leave it. Accept everything in life. That attitude I've seen played out tooooo many times over the years by anyone and everyone who wishes for anyone and everyone to accept their choices. Sure, if the wife wants to embrace it, that's fine. Just don't push an attitude that a woman should be subservient to everything her partner wants. If a woman enters a relationship with a man under a certain set of beliefs, does she not have the right to hold to her ideals?

Yes, I'm a recreational cross dresser, who does get to be en femme when I feel the necessity. However, I choose to honor my wife's non acceptance. I do not push my cross dressing upon her because I value her as a partner and respect her opinion.

Stephanie, I realise that as a recreational cross-dresser you have no frame of reference to understand what is being discussed in this thread.

There is no man in this thread. Only a transwoman and her wife.

What the wife gets out of it is a live and functioning partner.

[Frances]

Originally posted by Stephanie47
Just don't push an attitude that a woman should be subservient to everything her partner wants. If a woman enters a relationship with a man under a certain set of beliefs, does she not have the right to hold to her ideals?

I agree that people do enter into relationships with sets of presuppositions. A woman who thinks she entered in a relationship with a man should not be exepected to go along with a gender change. Some do, some don't. This, however, is not a whim or a want, nor is it a woman-man relationship. If a significant other cannot transition with the partner, then the relationship should end.

You talk about women being subservient to men, but I keep reading the opposite on this site, more like "she won't let me..." or "she does not accept it that I..." People love hypoagency, as it removes the burden of guilt. Transition is a selfish experience that requires total commitment, not endless negotiation. If one started a relationship under false pretenses (even if they were blind to them), then they should leave in complete honesty.

To all the people who refuse agency, including Anne, I would like to say: "woman-up already, take responsability for your decision."

[Rianna Humble]

I am fully aware of what's being discussed in this thread. I did not fall off the turnip truck last week. .

You may be aware of the subject, but both of your posts demonstrate absolute zero understanding of what is happening. That's OK, transsexuality is so far outside of anyone's frame of reference that it is virtually impossible to understand unless you have lived with it.

[stefan37]

Stephanie 47
You are a recreational crossdressers and in a DADT relationship. In all honesty your situation bears no resemblance to Anne's situation. Whether Anne wants to admit it she is transitioning and her wife is not ready for that reality. You live your life a certain way and you are able to go back and forth as it suits you. Well those of us transitioning do not have that luxury. I disclosed to my wife before we married I was a crossdresser and we survived 30 years as such. I can not explain why at this time I need to transition, but I am and she is not able to go along for the ride. I do not see in this thread anyone pushing their spouses to accept transition. We do advocate honesty for ourselves and for our spouses. We can not take hormones and hide breast growth. we can not hide our softening skin. Our transition is real and the loss can be in some cases devastating. I honestly do not understand your position.

What do we get out of transition? A chance to be authentic. An end to the dysphoria and hopefully inner peace. What do our spouses get out of it? I guess that depends on the spouse. For the majority they get a heap of disappointment, hurt, anger, and all the emotions that go with loss of a loved one. I did everything in my power to show my wife how transition is benefiting me and how it can be positive for the both of us. She has kept an open mind and in the end she can not love me the way she once did.
I hold no blame for her and she has expressed to me many times why can't I just xdress and be happy. I wish I could but I can't. I tried to keep acting male while on hormones. I can not do that. For me it is too difficult to live in the middle and I have made the commitment to fully transition. It is the end of us as man and wife just as it will be for many others that make the commitment to transition.

Anne's wife has not fully grasped Anne's transition and that has created the angst she feels. Whether that is Anne's fault or not I am not in a position to say. Anne and her spouse are really the only one's that have intimate knowledge of what was said.
What we have been discussing and advocating was that she communicate more fully with her spouse about her plans. the thing about transition is you can not have your cake and eat it also. And try as we might to accomplish it we almost invariably fail.

[Stephanie47]

I see so many defending their territory that they have not understood the points I was making. Sure, I do not fully understand what someone may be feeling. I am not a woman, so I do not possess a true ability to think as a woman. As a heterosexual male I cannot truly understand homosexuality, although I do have gay and lesbians friends, coworkers and acquaintances. Although I am not a transman, but, I have met transmen. I do not fully comprehend the angst and torment they go through to achieve their fulfillment. I do sympathize with them concerning their mental and physical challenges.

Sure, the wife is going through turmoil. There is conflict within her which cannot be diminished by reading books. It does not automatically change a person expectations. And, I do sympathize with the woman in these cases. What to do? How does she cope?

Has Anne's wife fully grasped what's going on? I suspect she has, but, she just does not know how to cope with the situation.

Years ago, one of my wife's friends was devastated to find out her husband was gay and wanted out of the marriage. One of the statements she made was, "If it was another woman who wanted my man, I know how to compete! How do I compete with a man for my man?"

As to my subservient comment concerning women, through life and on this forum I have notice much advice thrown out to take it or leave it. That's the way is going to be. And, I have seen many others commenting about the negativity of an attitude like that. In any relationship that usually spelled disaster.

[Anne2345]

However, I choose to honor my wife's non acceptance. I do not push my cross dressing upon her because I value her as a partner and respect her opinion.

Good for you, Stephanie! I am happy that you and your wife have a mutual agreement that suits both of your needs. Truly, and I write this with all sincerity, you may count yourself among the lucky and the blessed.

Unlike you, however, I am not a crossdresser. I cannot turn "it" on or off depending on the circumstances. This is not something I do for enjoyment, fun, thrills, are recreation. This is not a lifestyle. Instead, it is a life. It is my life. It is who I am, and I have no choice in the matter.

But like you, I also value my wife as a partner and a respect her opinion. And also like you, I do not "push an attitude" on her, and I do not require her to be "subservient" to me in any manner.

That said, I desperately want my marriage to work. The thing is, I can't hide my transsexual nature from her like you can your crossdressing alter-ego. It just doesn't work that way.

Based upon what you have written, crossdressing does not define you. You engage in the activity, but you are a man. The same cannot be said about me, and like Rianna politely pointed out, unless you live or have lived it, you simply can't understand (through no fault of your own - and be glad you cannot).

Even though I know what I am doing is jeopardizing and risking my marriage, I cannot not do these things, and that in and of itself hurts much, and makes this sooooo much more difficult!!

A very dear friend of mine, based on what she knows about me (and she knows personally both me and my wife quite well), bluntly stated that I cannot have it both ways. In her opinion, I can either transition and seriously risk losing my marriage, or not transition, retain my marriage, but ultimately commit suicide or seriously injure myself and withdraw completely from life further on down the road.

So where does that leave me, Stephanie? Assuming this to be true, and there is no viable, legitimate alternative options, both options SUCK!!! Which is EXACTLY why I am having soooooo much difficulty with this now!!!

I mean, at least for the time being, it is an either/or scenario. There is no middle ground. And it devastates me. It crushes me into the freaking ground!! I am constantly on the verge of losing it altogether!

But this has absolutely nothing to do with whether I respect or value my wife as my partner. It has nothing to do with it at all.

The entire conversation seems to be about "What the man gets out of it!"

With all due respect, you have misunderstood the entirety of this thread. Again, through no fault of your own. First off, as Rianna pointed out, there is no man in this thread. Second, assuming you were referring to me, this thread has nothing to do about what I will "get" out of "it" or not. Simply put, I am just trying to survive this and desperately, somehow, anyhow, make my life work. Steph summed it up quite well in her response.

And KellyJameson nailed it when she earlier wrote in this thread "you pay in pain to escape pain." This is a truth that I am beginning to learn in earnest now, and it is one that I hope you never have need to experience.

[Dawn cd]

Life throws curveballs to partners in every committed relationship. So it doesn't make sense to say "I didn't sign on for this"—as though we could predict for newlyweds everything that would happen in their lifetimes. New things continually come up. People grow in different directions. Partners continually have to adapt to each other. (This is from someone who has been married for 40+ years.) Anne's SO is naturally disturbed that she has deal with a situation that is being forced on her. Yet it was forced on Anne too! In this situation one either adapts or dies. But in the meantime we need to acknowledge the pain involved and deal with that. Respecting the pain is a major part of the adapting process.

[Donna Joanne]

If I may interject my 2 cents worth, what Anne and many others like myself have had to realize is that like the old Rolling Stones song says "You can't always get what you want".

In a perfect world that we DON'T live in, every TS/CD could tell their spouse and be totally accepted by everyone and live "happily ever after". Unfortunately, that world doesn't exist. When the greater majority of us married our spouses, these women thought they were marrying men who would remain a man until "death do us part". And for some women, when their husband expresses the desire to become a female either in dress or transition, that is the "death of the man that they married", and an end to their marriage as well.

During the recent same sex marriage debates, I have casually tried to broach the subject of GD and TS with my spouse. And the reaction was what I feared, and expected knowing my wife the way I do. So if I do decide to try and transition in the future, it will not be with the acceptance, approval, support or presence of my spouse.

Many say if she really loved me, she wouldn't feel that way, and that is truly being totally unfair to her. She wants the man she married, not the woman he want to become. I know these are extremely harsh, but many times true words that must be considered when these decisions are made. In the back of her mind, she is always wanting her MAN to "come to his senses" and become her HUSBAND again.

Just my two cents worth.

[LeaP]

Donna, judging your wife based on posing a theoretical, even with past experience, isn't necessarily indicative of outcomes in this case. Most of those whose relationships have survived (or where people re-connected as friends after divorce) went through a ferocious period of anger, denial, fighting, negotiating, and sometimes worse before anything like support or acceptance peeked over the horizon. Conversely, people sometimes hopefully cite their spouse's tolerant views prior to coming out, only to run into a brick wall.

Your "live happily ever after" context is a straw man. No-one expects that. No-one. TS actutely experience their own conflicts, which manifest in a variety of ways that seriously interfere with life functioning. As a result, they have an excruciatingly realistic view of the roles of love and acceptance. I don't know anyone who believes in any version of true love automatically carrying acceptance. Many of us believe, in fact, that one of the truest expression of love is letting go of our expectations, fully freeing our spouse.

[stefan37]

And Lea that is exactly what I have done. I let my spouse go. I took the first step and moved out of our bedroom into my own room. I am giving her the space she needs to cope. Our relationship will never be what it was. Our marriage as husband and wife is ended. That ship has sailed. We have been getting alone in our business just fine and in some cases better than before. There is still plenty of anger on her part and it is difficult to notice as it is not overt. We are able to finally talk about the reality of our situation and discuss different strategies for dealing with our future. I have taken my foot off the brake and starting to push the accelerator. It is extremely hurtful and painful that we are separated and will become more separated in the foreseeable future. But in many ways I feel liberated. She seems to be happier also. Couples therapy did help us and although we have stopped as we were at an impasse, we can communicate much more truthfully. I have stated my desire to a name change DL gender marker change, surgeries I may need and she has expressed her desires and the possible outcomes. At the end of the day we are both confidant we will remain strong business partners and be good friends for the rest of our lives.

As matter of fact I told her last night and it is a bit cliche but I told I am setting her free because I love her so much. If she wants me in her life then it will be so.

[ReineD]

As matter of fact I told her last night and it is a bit cliche but I told I am setting her free because I love her so much. If she wants me in her life then it will be so.

Stefan, you might want to rethink the part about setting her free because you love her so much. I'm guessing that the decision to sleep in separate rooms is mutual, and she most likely feels the separation is caused by your having changed in a direction that she cannot follow. This is not 'setting free'.

I think it would be better to tell her that you know that things are different than she expected but you cannot change who you are, you do love her very much, and you are hoping that she will be able to change as well and stay the course with you.

[stefan37]

We both know things are different. I feel different than she does about each other. By setting her free I mean we will live together as roomates with no intimate contact as we have as man and wife for 30+ years. The business is being relocated to another location within the next 45 days. Actually I just received news the shop will be available April 29. We are both very excited about that development. Moving the business out of our home will open options to us to put the house up for sale. She has expressed that as I progress she will not be able to move along with me. The important aspect is we both are able to communicate our intentions and to discuss them honestly. To further complicate issues we are business partners and the business is both of our livelihoods. Our relationship as business professionals is very strong and I trust her with my life and finances. We both understand the changes we both are experiencing. she knows I need to do what I am doing, but it does not make it any easier on her. I sill continue to offer support as she needs it and we will always be co parents, thankfully our kids are in their early 20's. But for me I have to learn to let go and as the days go by it is becoming easier. Building our business is a nice distraction for us and we are both growing in a way we could never have before.