Depressing setback with my wife . . . .

[Tammy V]

I have gone through the same thing with my spouse , before and after she left me. I still don't understand why she can't understand but I did get a little insight from an online conversation I had with another wife of a trans woman. She said that because she did indeed marry (what she assuemed to be) a man, had sex with her spouse, had kids and lived in the roles of husband and wife for years, she was not going to accept the fact the fact that, in essence, her spouse was a woman the whole time. Either she could not get her mind around that concept or it was threatening to her own sexuality, sanity or sense of womanhood. With some people there is no hope of gaining acceptance or support. A wife is very typically such a person. Unfortuantely we cannot change someone else. Maybe in time she will "come around" but most likely, in order for you to move forward you will have to "move on". I stll cry almost daily over the loss of my beloved spouse and best friend but in my mind I know losing her was nessesary in order for me to progress and transition. It sucks and it is not easy.

[Angela Campbell]

I wish I could tell you something that would help, Anne, but I cannot. I have never been very successful at my marriages so anything I say would likely be the wrong thing. If I could help I would.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Anne, you have answered this question.

"Where is all of this leading to?"

That is one hell of a question.

when you said

"What I have not told her, however, is that I do plan on transitioning to a woman."

in the back of her mind, I can see that she may fear that thats where this is heading, and you have NOT been honest with her. At this point you owe it to her to tell her where you plan on heading with this.

In your original post you use words like "I" and "she", relationships are about "we" and "us".

There is allways hope for long term relationships, but it takes work on both persons to make it work. Sometimes you have to take a breather to give each other a chance to adapt to changes. If you rush faster then your spouse is able to go, you may win the race, but you may also loose the prize.


I really do hope thing work out, and i understand what you are going through. I just hope you will consider what your spouses feelings are as well.

[ReineD]

She said that because she did indeed marry (what she assuemed to be) a man, had sex with her spouse, had kids and lived in the roles of husband and wife for years, she was not going to accept the fact the fact that, in essence, her spouse was a woman the whole time. Either she could not get her mind around that concept or it was threatening to her own sexuality, sanity or sense of womanhood.

I don't understand this either. Why didn't the wife you spoke to sense or feel that the person she assumed to be a man all these years was in fact not? No one who is a woman can possibly keep up the male mask every moment of every day, year after year, can she?

My SO is not transitioning yet she is not like any man that I know. There's no way that I would take it she was like other guys even if I didn't know of her trans status, and she's not even TS! And I've known several GGs who KNEW their husbands were TS way before their husbands were ready to face that fact. A person's true gender cannot help but come through if only through some cracks, especially to the person that a transwoman is most intimate with, year after year after year.

BTW, I want to add that if my SO should ever realize that she is TS, I would never feel as if my sense of womanhood or sexuality was threatened. It would be my SO's decision to transition and not mine, meaning that what she does or doesn't do does not change who I am.

So why are some of these wives so surprised?

[Tammy V]

I don't understand this either. Why didn't the wife you spoke to sense or feel that the person she assumed to be a man all these years was in fact not? No one who is a woman can possibly keep up the male mask every moment of every day, year after year, can she?

My SO is not transitioning yet she is not like any man that I know. There's no way that I would take it she was like other guys even if I didn't know of her trans status, and she's not even TS! And I've known several GGs who KNEW their husbands were TS way before their husbands were ready to face that fact. A person's true gender cannot help but come through if only through some cracks, especially to the person that a transwoman is most intimate with, year after year after year.

BTW, I want to add that if my SO should ever realize that she is TS, I would never feel as if my sense of womanhood or sexuality was threatened. It would be my SO's decision to transition and not mine, meaning that what she does or doesn't do does not change who I am.

So why are some of these wives so surprised?

Oh she wasn't surprised. It is all going according to (her) plan. When we were dating, at first at least, she may have looked at me as a "real man". But the more we were together the more of the real me came out. She used to correct some of my behavior and we actually stopped sleeping together before we got married. We never had kids. We have been together 25 years and married a little over half of that. When I fully came out to her in 2010 All physical contact ended but we had seperate rooms most of the time before that. To her credit she was the first person to make me beleive I could transition and come out to my conservative parents. She encouraged me for a couple of years to transition, but always said she would leave when I did. I tried to take it slow thinking she was coming to an understanding and she seemed supportive enough. I should be ok with it because I knew it was coming and by the time she left I had found someone else, but it still breaks my heart that she left, but mainly that she doesn't fully accept me even now. I miss my best friend so much.

What I relatged was a conversation I had with another So about their situation and it was a perspective I had never heard before but apparantly an eye opener.

[ReineD]

What I relatged was a conversation I had with another So about their situation and it was a perspective I had never heard before but apparantly an eye opener.

Right, you don't know this woman so you can't answer for her. It's just something that I hear (or read) quite often ... wives who cannot see the woman in their husbands. This is why they can't wrap their minds around the transition.

[Angela Campbell]

No one who is a woman can possibly keep up the male mask every moment of every day, year after year, can she?

Yes she can. Not forever but I did for fifty years. No one in the world knew but me. Two different marriages, three kids......Yes she can.

It is beat into you from the beginning and there is always a constant threat of ridicule, or exposure. The lessons are learned well over the years. I always knew and I always knew to hide it very well. Thus the problem as it was so well hidden no one will ever believe this has been a lifelong thing.

[LeaP]

Anne, you have answered this question.

"Where is all of this leading to?"

That is one hell of a question.

when you said

"What I have not told her, however, is that I do plan on transitioning to a woman."
...

I refer you to Anne's very next paragraph:

"But this is for a very good reason. Well, perhaps it's not a good reason, but it is a reason, nonetheless. That being, I have yet to tell or admit to myself that I am going to transition. Quite frankly, I don't know what I am going to do. Or perhaps more accurately, I am not sure if I am ready to accept and admit what I am going to do yet."

Once again, one cannot tell what one does not know. Moreover, trying to communicate the nuances of what might or might not be is fraught with difficulties. The former can trigger marital issues before their time, and perhaps for no good reason, should transition not happen. The latter can give false assurances.

The process is painful for all concerned, but it IS a process, not a situation where pat answers can be given at any time.

It may be obvious to some people that Anne will transition. Until ANNE knows she will transition, it would be imprudent to say so to her wife.

[stefan37]

Whether Anne does transition or not. she has started HRT and hormones has effect on the skin, body odors, and breast tissue. I know for my wife the skin softening was the very first change she noticed and and it happened relatively quickly in a matter of weeks. That softness of skin was a sensation she felt very uncomfortable with. The development of breast issue pushed her way over her comfort level. She can not sleep with a woman. I do not know Anne's wife and have no idea how she might react to these changes. Once the decision to take hormones is acted upon, one has taken the first step towards transition whether they admit it to themselves or not. We cannot hide the physical changes we undergo from those closest to us. So even though I have been taking my transition step by step there were certain physical changes I had no control of that caused our marriage dynamic to change, and our intimate personal interaction. Even if I had no intention of progressing further than hormones and electrolysis, My marriage dynamic changed because of the physical changes and we would still have ended up in different beds. There are many variables associated with transition that spouses must deal with and it takes a tremendous period of adjustment. Some may never adjust, some will adjust well, and even a small percentage will be actively supportive and accepting.

I understand completely not knowing where we may be heading in the beginning. A year ago Oct My wife and I had a discussion about my increasingly feminine expression and whether it would lead to transition. I told her then as truthfully as I thought it to be, it would require too much effort, time, and resources to transition. I did not have the resolve, willpower and much fear to consider transition. Fast forward 18 months, I have been therapy for 15 months, hrt for 10, and the marriage dynamic changed that I will be applying for a lawful name change, gender marker change on my DL in late Aug, early sept, and depending on timing and resources additional surgeries. Today I have the resolve, willpower, perseverance, and the only fear I had, losing my spouse has materialize. So yeah our situation can be fluid depending on how we are treading with loved ones, and what they mean to us.

[StephanieC]

So yeah our situation can be fluid depending on how we are treading with loved ones, and what they mean to us.

For me, I hope their meaning to me will not change. However, I could see getting to a point where our individual needs diverge to a point where the discomfort leads to separation. For me, I lived most of my life for others. And the concept of "individual happiness" was not something to be consciously sought. I figured that if I was a good person and associated with other good people, that happiness was the eventual conclusion. But increasingly over the years, I seemed to notice that I was being told what my life required. Only recently have I stopped to consider that there may be options.

Some people stay basically the same throughout their life: they merely turn more grey, more "padded", and slower in pace. Others continue to grow and change is constant. I wonder if that is the basic difference. The nature of the change may be the thing people react to but I think the difference in dynamics are the real impetus.

-stephani

[Debglam]

Hey Anne,

Sorry, I just saw this. I've skipped over a lot of the responses so this may have been addressed but I have a thought. Couple actually. . .

Given the specifics of your situation, do you think the visible changes (face) are more upsetting than the rest to your wife?

Also, I think Veronica had a point and have you clearly discussed "transsexual. . .transition?"

My experience has been that the things that upset my spouse about trans are things that I would consider to be minor. I really need to talk through some of these things to see what was bothering her. An issue similar to the one you mentioned is that she has held back on doing things for her and here I am as the "new girl" in the house shopping and going to the spa like some kind of Real Housewife of. . . After discussing it I clearly see how that pissed her off and the resolution was for her to start doing more things for her. I have also seen how talking around things instead of being direct actually caused her more confusion (and anxiety) than less.

Talk these issues and feelings through, either with a therapist or not, and I hope that you both can work this out.

Debby

[Ciara Brianne]

My ex asked me the same question. "Where is this going?" At the time I really didn't know the answer to that question. I had about the same concessions, but she was not comfortable with me going out en femme. We are both happier now I think. I know I am. Partly because there is no tension in the air over it and I get to be me. I hope everything works out for the best. I know a situation such as yours can bring about a lot of stress and anxiety. Hang in there.

[Badtranny]

No one who is a woman can possibly keep up the male mask every moment of every day, year after year, can she?

Well I guess it all depends on how determined she is. ;-)

Since I had to fight my way through adolescence, I was quite resolved to be a straight man and just deal with it. My method of "keeping up the mask" included womanizing, extreme sports, and NEVER drinking alcohol lest my mask slip a bit. I never drank a drop until after my first divorce.

I've chatted with my ex since the transition and she said she would have never known. I never LET her know, in fact she never knew me at all because I used to keep everyone at a safe emotional distance so they couldn't get close enough to see. My wife didn't know me any better than my friend, who didn't know me any better than the guys I played hockey with. Nobody knew me.

Lonely? I didn't know any better.

[LeaP]

Re: Misty's response -

Funny about the distance and loneliness part. The disconnect can be profound. I've only caught myself recently realizing that I enjoyed talking with someone. It was a really weird thought the first time it happened. But I rarely felt lonely.

[Angela Campbell]

This is true. I find that most of my life I really didn't want to know most people. I have been content by myself.

[ReineD]

I've chatted with my ex since the transition and she said she would have never known. I never LET her know, in fact she never knew me at all because I used to keep everyone at a safe emotional distance so they couldn't get close enough to see. My wife didn't know me any better than my friend, who didn't know me any better than the guys I played hockey with. Nobody knew me.

This makes sense. If the relationship is disconnected and the (then) husband keeps even his wife at an emotional distance, then I agree that she could not know. Sad to say, even in some non-trans relationships there are unhappy, disconnected couples who are like two strangers living side by side. But any SO will definitely know that the relationship is disconnected.

BUT ... (always a but ), I had in mind a marriage that WAS very connected. For decades. With kids, and good sex when they were younger, and friends. A happy marriage. I consider myself pretty average and I've got to tell you there is no way that my ex (married 30 years) could have hidden anything from me. Good lord, I even could feel it when he cheated! Even if things are not said outright, a SO's intuition is pretty strong especially when she knows her spouse intimately. In such a marriage, where the wife does feel connected to her husband, how can she not see that her spouse is a woman?

[Angela Campbell]

Reine, It is like Melissa said. When you spend a life from childhood hiding something so much a part of what you are, I don't think anyone really knows you. You end up keeping yourself disconnected from everyone. People only see what I let them see. No one knows me at all. I was married twice and I really wanted that connection but I didn't dare. I always wanted someone who loved me as much as I loved them but they couldn't because they never knew me. I see that now.

[StephanieC]

a SO's intuition is pretty strong especially when she knows her spouse intimately. In such a marriage, where the wife does feel connected to her husband, how can she not see that her spouse is a woman?

I think we are all impacted by our experience. I'm not sure that some people can see this as a (sane) possibility. So if that is not a logical/emotional possibility, would the SO consider it? If the sky cannot be cannot be green, would we ever consider the possibility?

I think the way we are raised and out experience of the world is so important to considering possibilities.

-stephani

[Kelly DeWinter]

I refer you to Anne's very next paragraph:

"But this is for a very good reason. Well, perhaps it's not a good reason, but it is a reason, nonetheless. That being, I have yet to tell or admit to myself that I am going to transition. Quite frankly, I don't know what I am going to do. Or perhaps more accurately, I am not sure if I am ready to accept and admit what I am going to do yet."

Once again, one cannot tell what one does not know. Moreover, trying to communicate the nuances of what might or might not be is fraught with difficulties. The former can trigger marital issues before their time, and perhaps for no good reason, should transition not happen. The latter can give false assurances.

The process is painful for all concerned, but it IS a process, not a situation where pat answers can be given at any time.

It may be obvious to some people that Anne will transition. Until ANNE knows she will transition, it would be imprudent to say so to her wife.

Am I missing something ? Anne is IN the process of transitioning, if starting HRT is not the first step of transitioning, I don't know what is. And yes there will probably be 1,000 plus opinions on what a 'first' step is. I personaly see HRT as a first of many steps, Anne's spouse is for all intent's and purposes being told "I am on this path , and I will keep you posted as to what I decide, when I decide" . How is a spouse suppose to react to this ?

One of the things that we as a community acknowledge and understand is that for some people the issue of "who am i" as a person is can be so overwheming, that transition in neccesary for emotional and mental health, however we also have to acknowledge that some spouses of a transgendered person, also for their emotional and mental health is to be in a relationship with a person of the same sex that tye originaly married.

I hope Anne and her spouse are able to work things out, but it looks like it will take intense communication and counseling.

[Rianna Humble]

Yes Kelly, you are missing something: the fact that Anne's wife does know about the hormones, but Anne cannot tell her what she (Anne) does not know - which is how far that will go.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

but Anne cannot tell her what she (Anne) does not know - which is how far that will go.

But here's the thing, when Anne says "she doesn't know" I think she's being deceptive and engaging in another avoidance maneuver. I don't know about you, but I don't think people whould go on a full HRT regimen like Anne is doing unless they plan on eventually transitioning. Yes I know some "serious" CD's will do a low dose, but most of those who do that end up deciding they're TS anyway.

IMHO Anne "does know" but is simply avoiding stating that fact directly, because THAT is the sticking point. As I said, Anne wants to have her cake an eat it too, but that's not happening and Anne is miserable. All these questions Anne is posing are rhetorical....Anne "knows" the answers, but doesn't want to admit the answers because that will eventually lead to Anne having to make the choice. that she resents having to make.

Sorry Anne, but it's time to "put your big girl panties on" and say directly what you want and admit that doing that will lead to a divorce.

Veronica

[StephanieC]

Sorry Anne, but it's time to "put your big girl panties on" and say directly what you want and admit that doing that will lead to a divorce.

Veronica

But is that a foregone conclusion? Perhaps she's trying to be one of the statistically few in number (who's relationship survives). Is that possible?

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Perhaps she's trying to be one of the statistically few in number (who's relationship survives). Is that possible?

Possible but not likely. And rushing into HRT without being direct and forthcoming as to her "feal goal" made that less likely. Sure sometimes a TS marriage ends up turning into one of those platonic "like sisters" things we read about...but in almost all of those cases, the wife is a progressive and was more informed earlier on (and had a longer period of time to adjust) than Anne's wife was.

Veronica
Veronica

[Angela Campbell]

I wouldn't want to tell anyone their marriage is doomed and to give up. There is always hope. It doesn't always work out but it is worth trying.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Reine..

As you are focusing on a wife's intuition maybe you could consider that people really do have very close relationships and still don't know...and that feeling you may have about how much you know about your husband can be shattered...this leads to a strong feeling of betrayal... your experience is not with transsexuals...ask a wife that had the bomb dropped....a closeted deeply repressed transsexual can hide better than the best spy...partially because the ts husband is lying to themself

+++++++++

in general i am finding some of the mind reading in this thread highly entertaining....just amazing...

its like a complete disregard for the way actual real communication works...and its especially wierd to see struggling floundering transsexual women and crossdressers lecture Anne on what she thinks or what she has decided.......
"deciding" to transition is a nebulous concept....its soft and gooey...relationship communication is an ongoing thing..its nonsensical to wake up every day and inform your wife that today you feel more less like transitioning than the day before..
A year or so ago, Anne was writing about how she loved being in the closet in cd forum..alot has changed in a very short period of time..

...of all people veronica you know this
..what do you know about deciding anyway?