Is this you?

[Michelle.M]

Why does it matter?
Do failed transitions invalidate the successful ones?

In a way, yes. Anti-trans critics use this as "evidence" that we're all mentally ill and what we're doing to transition is unnatural and harmful. Unfortunately, these hatemongers tend to be the loudest voices heard at congressional hearings and in state legislature meetings when debates about equality and anti-hate laws are being held.

[whowhatwhen]

The counter to that is easily going to be all of the successful transitions and the ineffectiveness of conversion therapy, it just sounds like they're going to keep grasping at straws even if you knock the failed transition level down to 0%.

The only thing I can think of is increasing mental health support systems, such as covering all mental health professionals under UHC.

[pickles]

It's me, I'm the guy.

[Kathryn Martin]

Why does it matter?...................Just try to be supportive where you can and worry about your own path.

Kathryn, I don't know - maybe my heart just just goes out to case #2.

It really no longer matters what I think, Corinne. Having gone through the process of transition including surgery I no longer think about these things from the perspective of someone who is in the thick of things. I have no path to worry about anymore. I have a professional interest in these questions and of course have an emotional attachment to some of the people here on this site. The purpose of writing about these things in the manner I do is to point out that transition is an incredibly serious undertaking. Just consider the actual consequences for the second case. The realization that she could no longer live with the loneliness, with being unloved, came after she dismantled with the help of her therapist the fabric of her life. It is an incredible tragedy that her belief that this could be done without impunity now has netted such a result. Because transitioning and de-transitioning are acts that do not immediately assist in creating "new" networks of support in real life (as opposed to here). All expressions of sympathy pale in comparison to what she will have to tackle and overcome now.

There is a certain callousness in saying: " Someone was going through RLE and decided not to proceed any further. That's exactly why we have RLE. Mission accomplished. " when the consequences are as dire as they are. And this is where I see the abject failure of her therapist. The purpose of a therapist in these situations once the diagnosis is made is to prepare the patient for real life. That includes both planning but also in great depth discussion of possible scenarios of failure and the kind of pitfalls we can run into. The reason is that we don't set out on this road to fail. For older transitioners this is quite different from young ones. The first and glaring question that arises in the mind of our social environment is how a 40, 50 ,60 year old man (because that is how we are perceived) can have such a colossal lack of good judgement. It strikes at the very integrity of our ability to function both socially and professionally. How can you overcome this? And to what extent is it the responsibility of the gate keepers to address this fundamental question both from a diagnostic point of view and also from the point of view of executing a successful transition.

Being in the process we are, as Frances recently said, so blinded by the physical and physiological requirements of transition that this question pales in comparison but it is the much more potent barrier to a successful transition than any hormones or other transitioning accoutrements, which really only serve to support a solution to this question. Sex re-assignment surgery is the only step that we do entirely for ourselves. As is being pointed out by so many, it is the most invisible of changes and is for us, as transsexuals central to our existence. All other changes are supportive of our social integration, even if we seemingly desire them so much. In fact a successful transition is one of the few steps we can take where a bold: I want this and goddammit I am going to make it happen! does not guarantee success. It requires a different connection to your social environment. Reine recently asked on one of these threads why so many wives do not understand and then answered her own question by pointing out that no woman could have hidden her nature for 20, 30, 40 years without it leaking out around the edges somewhere, everywhere.

In transition if you are unable to make your social environment follow you in some fashion, then success may not follow. And developing a sense of the authenticity of your followers in acknowledging your nature is crucial. Women tend to be acknowledged as women.

[Marleena]

I just need to add that I don't know who person #2 is or her whole story but it is really sad. She lost everything taking the path she did and how can we not feel compassion for her? I wish her well and hope she does find some happiness.

[noeleena]

Hi,

I know of quite a few & know of others who were passed for HRT & surgerys in those case's they were M to F. & some blamed the Dr's & G P's because they helped in them being able to have HRT & surgerys , yet turned on those who did help

they said some time after they were not trans to start with, oh.... so why did they go to all this to then turn around & try to go back to liveing as male's i can not answer thier ? though my thoughts are they played a game & thought they had won did they no they were not prepared to go through life being who they where in the first place, was it like a mid life crises or it was going to be paid for by the state or some one else,

Okay im not trans & dont or did not come under the same detail as trans yet i was given the help i needed heres my detail i ...paid... in full for all my surgerys, so would i do that on a whim no way. i knew what i was / am & i could never go back to something im not i was not male to start with all iv done is had help in what i needed i did not change from male to female or female to male was not posible ether way, for myself there was never or could be any doughts in what i am,

So those who have surgerys many ask others what am i if that ? is asked then then theres a uncertinty they have about them selfs so the gate keepers are only working on what they are told & maybe what they see, i dont belive for some thats enough yet the gate keepers are asked to say yes you are trans .

So when they do say yes & help they are wrong when it all turns around & those who get the help say the gate keepers are wrong

Now when those who need the help have to pay all costs will they have the surgerys, they then cant blame the Dr's or would they any ways, its a no win no matter what way its done,

Though i would think those who pay them selfs would more than just weigh up the cost, not just about money for me there was no cost other than no life,

Ill tell you what sometimes people dont understand i know this applys to myself to go through the hell of what we do go through we have to be bloody strong very very strong , i know iv had to , iv lost a few trans people & others i know about, so it does hit home . we have our life its how we live it that will count ,

...noeleena...

[Kaitlyn Michele]

the last thing we need is people that have nothing to do with us influencing the people around us to resist our transitions, and allow our detractors to manufacture false issues for us...
Its hard enough w/o jerks and fools making it harder. His situation has as much to do with us as a fish falling off a bicycle and yet its held up as another case of transsexual regret..
It's true that the best defense against this is lots of successful transitions, but it gets old "defending" my "choice" against failed people that are not like me...

the medical community screws up all the time...medicine is by its nature messy...my mom said doctors are just good guessers...i had issues with therapists that told me things that were not true...altho it hurt me i ended up taking responsibility and driving towards the right answer...thats how it works.. if you have cancer.. if the first doctor isnt cutting it, you move on , and like we do as transsexuals, you take the chance based on only your best understanding at the time...ask Steve Jobs...

and screw ups do influence treatment for others...this kind of screw up implicates the next transition, and its helpful to understand what happened and why it happened..

and unfortunately when you see cases like #1 in the OP, you have to raise your hand and explain for the umpteenth time that you are not like him, that he was not transsexual, that you are not a crossdresser, that this is not a choice, this is something that is not going to change, and you have to do all of those things even tho all that happened is a fish fell of its bike

hopefully the people that are still learning how to treat us will look at this and truly improve their understanding of how to treat transsexuals so they can best manage quality of life AND treat people that are lurking around our community doing stupid things to mess up their lives..

[Michelle.M]

There is a certain callousness in saying: " Someone was going through RLE and decided not to proceed any further. That's exactly why we have RLE. Mission accomplished. " when the consequences are as dire as they are.

* sigh *

Nearly every week some allegedly trans noob posts (almost always in her first or second post) that she's chomping at the bit to have GRS and boobs and HRT and live her life as a woman (and quite frequently in that order) and she's always met with a resounding chorus of transitioners who tell her that therapy is key and there's a very important RLE in there as well so she can sort all this out.

And why do we chide this wannabee in this way? Because, as you point out, the consequences are dire.

We can't have it both ways. We can't endorse RLE and stress how important it is and then wring our hands when RLE does exactly what it's intended to do - to give a serious reality check to someone who might not be an appropriate candidate for further transition.

And the alternative? Had she simply plowed on through and finished her transition she might have been a regretter and then would have put the blame on everyone else when she knew - as she does even now - that further transition was a bad idea.

It's not callous. This example is exactly why we do RLE. And failure of the medical community to manage that WOULD be a failure indeed.

And this is where I see the abject failure of her therapist.

You simply must be kidding! The patient chose not to continue because she found out what we all know - that transition is tough. Not everyone's up to the task. Bravo for her for figuring that out before it was too late!

The purpose of a therapist in these situations once the diagnosis is made is to prepare the patient for real life. That includes both planning but also in great depth discussion of possible scenarios of failure and the kind of pitfalls we can run into.

Partially, but it's the patient's transition and she needs to own it. The only way a therapist would fail here is to deny the patient's own inability to adapt during RLE and then to push the patient on to full transition. That would be failure. That the patient has chosen not to continue is not the therapist's fault unless she can show that the therapist was a negligent quack who gave bad counsel. The therapist's job is to help the patient find the life skills and coping mechanisms to transition. It's the patient's job to put those skills to use.

According to the patient she feels unloved. That may not have anything to do with her gender issues, and that's a signal that other work needs to be done before any further transition occurs, if it does at all.

In transition if you are unable to make your social environment follow you in some fashion, then success may not follow.

And that pretty much wraps up the reason that the person chose not to continue to transition. It looks like the process worked exactly as it was supposed to, and I'm still not seeing any medical community blame here.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I think this is a good debate..

Kathryn one thing you said.. "All expressions of sympathy pale in comparison to what she will have to tackle and overcome now" sounds like hyperbole to me....S$$$ happens..

ALL medical situations have a meaningful patient responsibility aspect...ours more than most.
There are very few things in life that require more ownership than attempting transition and frankly the same goes for ts women that try to not transition. you gotta own it..thats just the way it is and we deal with it best we can.

The assertion that starting RLE and giving up is a "failure" does not stand up......stopping RLE is not a failure..its part of a process...its a medical process that by its nature requires constant inputs and outputs...it can have multiple aspects..
my two most influential ts mentors both started RLE, both quit in months 3-6(one shaved her head and took testosterone for a short time AFTER getting FFS...) and then both came back...that was their path...they are far from failures..

we all project our experience on others ..i know i do it too...not everybody came at this from a perspective of having their act together at the point of RLE, not everybody is body/congruence focused, and not everybody can fearlessly/shamelessly express themselves(even just verbally and in the safety of a therapist office) ...my projection comes from how i had to therapist shop ..i experienced "bad therapy" but i also remember how i expressed myself and there is an element of self responsibility in what i said to those "bad therapists"...they are not mind readers..based on knowing you on this forum, had you advised me 10 years ago when i that therapist gave me bad advice, i think you would have told me the same thing..

RLE can be the final step to congruence, it can prove to a transsexual they can "do it"...it can highlight to transsexual women that they need more time to do it better or that they need to get more support, and it can demonstrate to non-ts people that their fantasy of being a woman is just that...if your lot in life is that you need to blow up your life to stop obsessing over an impossible dream, its not callous to say it, life will go on, we learn from it, pick up the pieces and move on.

...people do stupid things that impact their lives all the time...people make predictable and life changing bad decisions all the time..lots of hard decisions have dire consequences..RLE is merely one of them...
....i dont see how RLE can exist AND it be assumed that only people that succeed at it can try it

i totally agree that some people are fools for starting RLE...that sometimes its obvious to transsexuals that they are fools, and this is actually a safe place to talk some sense into somebody before they do something stupid, but more often than not, its impossible to stop people from doing things that can hurt themselves despite no lack of effort (from you, me or the medical community)...

[Michelle.M]

The assertion that starting RLE and giving up is a "failure" does not stand up......stopping RLE is not a failure..its part of a process...

My point exactly. This is exactly how it's supposed to work. We try it out, we see if it's a good fit and if it is we proceed. If not, we change direction.

In a sense our friend who terminated RLE is in a very unique place. As Mark Twain said, "Anyone who has had a bull by the tail knows five or six more things than someone who hasn't.". She now knows something about herself that anyone who has not yet started RLE doesn't know, and she's also come to certain realizations that those of us with a positive RLE will never appreciate.

There's no failure here. It just didn't end in a way that was expected.

[Kathryn Martin]

There's no failure here. It just didn't end in a way that was expected.

This a good debate, and I am not kidding. You are simply not getting my point, which is nice going shutting the barn door after the horses are out. And that is a failure in my book. And apparently in your view medical professionals are without any responsibility for their patients.

Kathryn one thing you said.. "All expressions of sympathy pale in comparison to what she will have to tackle and overcome now" sounds like hyperbole to me....S$$$ happens..

ALL medical situations have a meaningful patient responsibility aspect...ours more than most.

...people do stupid things that impact their lives all the time...people make predictable and life changing bad decisions all the time..lots of hard decisions have dire consequences..RLE is merely one of them...
....i dont see how RLE can exist AND it be assumed that only people that succeed at it can try it

Kaitelyn, hyperbole, really, so after this person lost her marriage, her job, has found herself alone and unloved and quits transition, she now has to simply pick up the pieces and move on? In the eyes of her social environment she just has proven that she lacks any judgement. Nice starting point for moving on.

RLE is required prior to surgery to ensure social and professional acceptance before irreversible changes are made. Her bad decision was in your words predictable because apparently in the face of a very conflicted view of transition and questions whether this was the right path she was counseled to proceed. I agree we all have the primary responsibility in our decisions especially around questions of stepping on that path. But we do seek out professional help so that we have someone check if we have fallen prey to some colossal fantasy. To be blunt the likelihood that you are suddenly TS at age 40, 50, 60 is what?

[Badtranny]

But we do seek out professional help so that we have someone check if we have fallen prey to some colossal fantasy. To be blunt the likelihood that you are suddenly TS at age 40, 50, 60 is what?

I agree with MM, Kait, AND Kat, so this is a pretty crappy debate if you ask me ;-)

You're all saying the same thing in your own styles so that's neat but Kat is (or was) being a little too coy about her premise. She feels like #2 was not served by her own doctors OR the community. She's saying that #2 was welcomed and encouraged by us as recklessly as she was diagnosed by her therapist. People have issues, and when they find themselves being embraced by a community for the first time, they can easily misunderstand their own motives. The support of the community seems bigger than life to someone who is not healthy, but they find out too late that the community only exists in the abstract. There is no sorority house where you can make a new life with all of your fabulous new friends. There is only you, and what remains after your big announcement. It's a hell of a thing. My life is NOT better after transition. It's the same or worse in many respects. I just FEEL better about it.

Kat thinks the Therapists should always be reluctant to encourage transition, and when they do, be very serious about the potential consequences.

[melissaK]

Well sure Melissa, go start talking about the elephant in the room . . . ;^) (I avoided this thread for just that reason - Kat's initial coyness.)

[stefan37]

Transition by its very nature is messy. What is known cannot be unknown. I was convinced hormones would improve my quality of life. They have in ways I could never have imagined. I have been taking my transition in steps to see at what level my gid would be mitigated. I have only been on estrogen for 10 months, Probably 6-12 months from RLE. Well I have already lost the most precious person in my life. If I were to stop right now and attempt to go back, Our relationship has already been irrevocably damaged as husband and wife. Aside form the physical changes that may not get reversed, she would always wonder if I would want to start again. Should I blame the therapist, and endocrinologist that allowed me access to the hormones? Or should I take responsibility for my actions? The answer for me is I have to own the path I am on. Any losses I have or will incur along the way will be on me. Not on the medical establishment that allowed me access. I thought that was the purpose of RLE to allow an individual the opportunity explore and realize whether living as the opposite gender is right for them. Maybe they started because of a fantasy or maybe it was a real need. Not everyone has the fortitude, self-confidence and perseverance to follow it to whatever conclusion we feel appropriate. If one is not TS wouldn't it be beneficial to realize that before attempting irreversible surgery? I disagree that starting rle and then backing out is a failure. I say that the process did what it was supposed to and although there were losses incurred, it would be much more severe had they proceeded.

I am glad that some are able to go at rocket speed and assimilate successfully to congruence and begin to grow as a woman. For many of us it is a struggle whether financially, relationship wise or socially. Many times I say to myself WTF am I doing. I ruined a perfectly good marriage with a loving spouse I loved very much and she loved me. One of my children is having a difficult time and has caused uncertainty in her life at a time when she needs to concentrate on her own life as she graduates this spring from college. I can only speak for myself I know I must move forward, I must take ownership of the losses I have caused and incurred. I will have to take responsibility for any future decisions I make. Will I make the right choice? So far every one i have made towards transition feels right and I feel more content, even tho the losses are excruciatingly painful and hurt a lot. And they not only cause me pain and hurt but cause those closest to me undue hurt and pain, not too mention anger and a host of many other emotions.

Never transition unless you have is to is so true, and if you feel you must any losses have to be taken as a consequence of that decision. Transition is serious business, it is not fantasy, As others have said before "it will get real at some point", and that poiint is much closer than many believe even with good mentoring.

[Michelle.M]

You are simply not getting my point

Really? Let me try again. In case #1 Mr Smith has GRS and later regrets it. You ask who or what failed.

In case #2 a site member has pulled the plug on her own transition. You ask who or what failed.

Am I on track so far?

You asked an open ended question and I think the point has now become that you disagree with the answers being given, and you're challenging the notion that (in case #1) it's Smith and not a failure of the medical community and that in case #2 it's merely her decision and not a failure of the medical community.

And apparently in your view medical professionals are without any responsibility for their patients.

I don't believe that my responses have given you enough information to make such a blanket statement.

Let's look at the facts (such as they are) from your original post:

Case #1

Smith has GRS, regrets it and sues the state to change his documents back to the way they were before transition.

What was Dr Wilson's actual involvement in the case? Did he make a formal GID diagnosis (inappropriate for a plastic surgeon) or was his "assertion" merely an informal opinion? We don't know.

Was anyone involved in Smith's treatment aware that Smith was being treated for other serious issues by a psychologist or did Smith conceal this? We don't know.

Did Dr Schrang ignore WPATH protocols and perform GRS without the required letters or did he have all the necessary documents? We don't know.

Did Smith obtain those letters from another therapist for the purpose of gaming the system to get a surgery he knew was being stonewalled by his psychologist? Did he bribe someone? We don't know.

What we do know is that there is an established procedure for changing sex markers on official documents. It's called GRS, and Smith could use that process by obtaining FTM GRS and submitting the appropriate affidavits and applying for the changes for which he's now suing the state to do for him.

What we do know is that Smith is exhibiting typical "career victim" pathologies that make others responsible for his well-being. We do not know enough about what medical providers may have done or failed to do to put any blame on them.

Case #2

All we know is this:

I cannot live like this anymore alone, unloved so I am quitting my transition and going to try and return to being a male.

That's it! One sentence of 24 words! Where do you get any idea whatsoever about even the involvement of the medical community, much less any responsibility they might have for her decision?

[arbon]

.I think medical professionals do have responsibility for how they treat their patients and to use their best judgment in doing so, but ultimately they do not control the person they are treating, the person needs to make their choices of what they are going to based on what is in their heart and the information one has. Especially transsexuals, the answer has to come from inside. It is their body, it is their life. And the consequences of it going wrong are theirs to.

That's my opinion though, from a person that did not ask my therapist if she thought it was a good idea or not for me to transition, I did not ask her initially if she agreed with me starting hormones - I just went ahead and did those things, without a letter, without a doctor, without her approval. I mean she advised me of the risks, she really wanted me to meet other transsexuals so I could learn from them what the reality of transition is like. Which I did and got a clear picture of the reality could be for me, a lot of the trans women I met where not doing very well. It may have been very poor judgment on my part, but I went for it anyway. I felt like I had to , and that I had to do it soon.

I don't want tighter rules or guidelines on transitioning and I'm not going to hold the medical professionals responsibly for giving us what we want them to do. I just don't like people having that much control over me.

in case number 2 my heart goes out to her to. She can restart though, people have restart their lives all the time for all sorts of reason. If she finds later on in is in a better position maybe she can try again, maybe she will have more friends and support to help pull her through.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

...I agree that a number of people have a fantasy that grows and grows and screws up their lives.. they exist...and hopefully the medical community doesn't let them screw up their lives..given that our typical therapy path is an hour a week or less, you are being unrealistic to think they get it right every time...and i repeat...the trend in an increasingly overburdened medical system is SELF OWNERSHIP of care...

and if your care doesnt work out, it actually is pretty simple
...you pick up the pieces and move on...you do it as best you can...in some ways the person giving up on RLE has many of our issues..they'll be marginalized just like us...we pick up our pieces and move on, so do they hopefully

i think you have a blind spot and that is that some of the older folks that "suddenly realize" they are transsexual end up looking back on lives with a mixture of sadness and awe at how brutally they repressed or compartmentalized their feelings...this is my experience...your experience was different...your approach precludes people like me from the benefits of transition...you would have me jump through more hoops to protect the people that are foolishly screwing up their own lives...that is the practical outcome of your approach..no thanks...there are enough hoops already..just like that fetishists and the fantasizers, i ended up therapist shopping until I got to my "right place"..

++++
and the OP now looks a bit disingenuous to me on re reading...thats upsetting to me....i'd prefer things to be more direct

don't transition unless you have to...that's the mantra... whats so hard to understand about that...i don't know any doctor, any therapist or any one of us that has ever said anything differently..

[LeaP]

...the whole premise of the OP is a strawman...

I don't think so. As a practical matter, the gatekeeping system still exists strongly for SRS and somewhat less so for HRT. I.e., this is the premise, and it's not a strawman. If anything, it was even stronger in 2000, when case #1 had surgery. Given that, the question as to who failed is entirely appropriate. The story contains some weird-sounding elements (like the plastic surgeon's diagnosis), but in the end it doesn't matter if the person was manipulating the system.

People have ALWAYS manipulated the system. The stories of TS in the bad old gender clinic days showing up dressed to the nines, virtually trying to seduce their psychiatrists, confessing unshakeable attraction to men only, and telling the "known since birth" story are legion - because that's the only way one could get past the gatekeepers. My own therapist told me that she's had any number of "hormone shoppers," as she calls them, none of whom get letters from her. There is enough in the Case #1 story to strongly imply a manipulative personality in addition to the post-SRS religious influence (conversion, perhaps?). I should also point out that co-morbid issues, including paraphilas, aren't necessarily disqualifying, though they would give any psych cause to investigate particularly closely.

I've read enough about people's therapist experiences, however, that I've come to believe there should be a gender therapy certification of some sort. From stories of people getting diagnoses and pseudo-diagnoses on their first visit (or even phone call), to getting letters virtually on demand, to session descriptions that suggest any lack of rigor in diagnosis, to lack of knowledge in the subject area, etc. - all seem to be more common that not.

Maybe I'm lucky. Mine has had gender patients for 25 years. She followed a proper differential diagnosis process. She insisted on dealing with co-morbid issues before discussing gender in depth. She wouldn't so much as even use the word "transgender" for months, never mind transsexual. After depression & anxiety were dealt with, and I started pressing - at one point writing her a long letter before a session - THEN we dug into gender. By that point, I had self-diagnosed, but she still would not render an opinion, never mind a diagnosis, for yet another 6-8 sessions. At that point I asked if she would approve hormones and the answer was "of course." (!) Subsequent sessions have been all over the map on general life issues, but have also turned to discussions of transition and timing. Time from first contact to letter was approximately 8 months.

I think this is a best-case scenario because we have both been fully engaged. I wanted her expertise and guidance (got criticized here for letting her drive, too), but still ultimately came to my own conclusions. We agreed. She did proper due diligence, as well as sorted out issues in my way. I was cautious in the way I needed. The gatekeeping concept applied, but it was in no way restrictive or applied artificial criteria. I suppose I could have tried to manipulate the situation, but wasn't interested in that and think it would have been difficult given the rigor in her assessment.

But IS this best-case? I think so. What more rigor in gatekeeping could or should be had? I wouldn't want to go back to the gender clinic approaches of decades past, of gating access to the gatekeepers, eliminating all but a handful per thousand, and leaving people in misery. So in my opinion, if there's a failure in the system, it's in the lack of education and perhaps certification for those who are diagnosing GID/GD or are writing the referrals ... perhaps they shouldn't be the same people? In Case #1, if the plastic surgeon wrote one of the required referrals, it would be a perfect case in point of someone completely inappropriate.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Who or what failed???
that was the question...

first off, it presumes both cases are failures... and it conflates two totally different situations...

the system is not perfect..we are not perfect.. there is an underlying current of my way or the highway in the subsequent answers...there is an underlying current that people coming into "realizations" late in life are to be disbelieved...i read alot of that baloney on tsroadmap(where people like me are openly accused have just having a midlife crisis) and once i read that i never looked at it again...

the strawman (to me) is that there is an underlying mentality of inappropriate cheerleading aiming towards transition and nothing could be further from the case except in limited examples..

we can debate the idea that we are underserved by the medical community or that elements of our self care are risky without elavating the status of transition/RLE to some kind of treatment reserved for perfect transsexuals
i fully accept that my own experience is a big influence on how i approach this.

and fwiw... when i started RLE i waited until i felt i was ready, i saved up my money, i built my support network..i took responsibility for myself ... i knew i would never look back and never did... i get it that rle is a big fricking deal and must be very carefully considered

...i just keep getting the feeling that kathryn thinks that people are not doing this and its the doctors (or our) fault...
i'm ok with being wrong..

[stefan37]

Umm people late in life transitioning. I have always felt since an early age I was born the wrong gender. I coped with how I felt inside for a long long time. I coped and mitigated (not knowing my anxiety and discomfort was GID until a few years ago.) with drugs and alcohol. I crossdressed and that brought for a certain time relief. Confusing the issue is my sexual orientation, I am attracted to females. I married my wife and had 2 kids. Did I want to admit to myself or even other’s I was transsexual? Even believing it in my mind to be true there would be no way I wanted to destroy our lives as we knew them. Finally with my wife’s urging I made an appt with a gender therapist. Exploring my issues with my therapist coupled with discussions on this forum, many of the fears I had were extinguished. When I made the decision to transition I had one and only one fear. The loss of my spouse. Well that fear has materialized and I now feel liberated to move forward without my foot on the brake, if that makes sense.
I feel I have committed by disclosing to others my intention. What is known cannot be unknown.
I am a late life transitioner and by not addressing my condition sooner in life there are obstacles I have to overcome, that I would have had I done this sooner in my life. But I was not ready or not in a position to act on it sooner. Am I not a true transsexual because I am doing it at this late time in my life? I do not know and do not care. I am doing what I feel is correct for me and at a pace I feel comfortable with. I do not care if someone that has transitioned or has had srs wants to label me a pseudo tranny. I have my life to deal with and I will own it in my own fashion and blame no one for any mistakes I make along the way
Oh by the way there is a member in my support group that started transition in the late 70’s, but stopped a couple years later. She resumed her transition about 4 years ago and had SRS last year at age 70.
Does that mean she is not a true transsexual? We are all over the map both in gender mitigation and balancing our lives with those lives we have built a life with. It is not easy and in many cases results in tremendous losses, hurt, pain, and anger and leaves a wake of destruction that one can only stand back and wonder why we are doing this and what do we expect to accomplish?

[Kathryn Martin]

Who or what failed???
that was the question...

first off, it presumes both cases are failures... and it conflates two totally different situations...

...i just keep getting the feeling that kathryn thinks that people are not doing this and its the doctors (or our) fault...
i'm ok with being wrong..

I did not intend to conflate both situations. In the first it is obvious that the two surgeons just did not pay sufficient attention and in doing so let the person down, mental illness or not.

I don't actually assign fault. All I am trying to point out is that both patient and therapist have responsibilities in the process of stepping out on the road of transition. I have been accused of all kinds of things including "midlife crisis", "impotence", "fantasy", you name someone has called me it. While ultimately rejecting it all, it became a checkpoint and each one of them was considered on it's merits no matter how insulting, mean, inappropriate or even disgusting it was. Let me give you an example just for the fun of it:

"So because YOU decided, after years spent cross dressing in the closet, while at the same time lying to your wife and fathering, (how many?), children, that now finally, after sex with "the old lady" wasn't as much fun any more, and the old "magic wand" just wasn't up to the job any more, YOU decided to, "what the heck", might as well "go all the way".

And this is what I answered after very careful consideration of what was said:

"Just to clarify: I have with three exceptions where I tried crossdressing at age 8, age 37 and age 49, never crossdressed until after I decided to transition. At age 8 I tried my mothers shapewear, at age 37 I tried on a dress, at age 49 I tried on pantyhose and heels. I have never needed to lie to my wife. I have four children, having fathered three. My bedroom is no one's business. I have never in my life made decisions on a "what the heck" basis.

What is so perfidious about the comment is, that these are the kind of thoughts that have haunted my life since I was 21. Usually, it is I who asks the questions, accuse myself of being in some closet, lying such as being "stealth" to my family. Sex for me so often was a disaster, because I could not find a proper way to deal with what I inherited, accidentally, and while the equipment is functional I sought intimacy in so many ways except this one that will forever not be what I am. I have fought what having testicles does to me tried to manage this condition that tears viscerally through my body. In fact, what was said sticks the finger into the wound that living my life has left festering until I finally said no more. It was 36 years revisited in one quick, callous sideswipe meant to hurt where the author of the comment knew would hurt most: where I as a transsexual will always can be hurt.

Why am I writing this? I believe that we all, each one of us own our own biography, lock stock and barrel. Every decision we make, every circumstance it entails whether we are it's author or not, and we do not need the guilt trips others put on it, for political gain, polemic, kicks and giggles or any other reasons. And if you do that to anyone, I for one will say: shame on you!"

But you know, it had to be considered. I am of the view that what we do we own. The ultimate arbiter of our decisions is the success or failure. RLE is a therapeutic device which if it fails as in case 2 comes at a very, very substantial cost. So an approach that takes care in self evaluating and evaluating the stance taken by our therapists is more than merited.

I think that a site like this is wonderful for sharing, getting information and discussing issues. But really you cannot rely on it to provide guidance on when and under what circumstances you should transition.

[stefan37]

Even before we reach the point where we would start RLE. The very fact you have chosen to act and transition by taking hormones and other preliminary steps can incur substantial costs both financially and socially. So who should we blame then?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

"So because YOU decided........might as well "go all the way"."

wow... is that something that was said to you?? terrible...i'm sorry that happened...fwiw, maybe i misread or misinterpreted your OP and especially your responses, some of what you said made me feel the same way you were made to feel in your example

and of course you can't rely on people to tell you when to transition...but i will push back on the idea that people here cannot provide guidance...can anyone provide guidance at all except a medical professional? how much guidance can a girl get in $125 45 minute therapy sessions? the best guidance i got was from other transsexuals BY FAR...and the nub of it was "dont transition...but if you find you have to, here's the best way to do it.."

[Badtranny]

wow... is that something that was said to you?? ..

We've all had awful things said to us Kait. You, me, Kat, MM, Kelly, April, Bree, Nicole, Inna, Arbon, Stef, etc etc etc. People think they can say whatever they want to us for some reason. Like the most hurtful things are somehow okay because we are so "different". In fact the essence of being trans is being different. This is what causes people to stop and go back to a "normal" life.

It's hard to be different. It's hard to hear little girls whisper "creepy" when you're in Claire's looking for a damn necklace. RLE is tough, but so is the following year, and for every year after that. You will always be different. This is what we need to stress to the new girls. You can have all the surgery you want, hell, you can have a genie, but if you are transitioning past the age of 40, you will spend the rest of your life looking at the dude you used to be over your shoulder. Forty years doesn't disappear. People don't forget. Problems don't go away.

If you don't know in your bones that this is who you are, and you are not determined to proceed no matter what, then you are crazy to even consider something so crazy.

You know, there's something interesting that I just realized, All of the regular mouthpieces on the TS board have been vilified by the "community" at one time or another. All of us have had our authenticity questioned or ridiculed and NONE of us gave a damn. There's not a transitioned gal on this board who sought the approval of anyone in the "community". I did not need a welcome mat, in fact I took pride in the fact that I was a 'bad' tranny. In my view, the girls that come here looking for support are already needing too much support. If you can't stand against the wind on your own, then you will most certainly get blown away.

[Michelle.M]

If you can't stand against the wind on your own, then you will most certainly get blown away.

Oooh! That's great! I am printing that one out and sticking it on the fridge right now!

But seriously, well said.