Are you a "true" CD?

[~Joanne~]

Once again, Reine hits it out of the park. Thank you!

She usually does as she has in both of her replys Reine is a very smart woman and really has looked into all of this a lot deeper than I ever dared to go. She is such an important part of our community

Joanne, I apologize for being sarcastic, I missed your follow up post.

No apology needed, I like sacasism to be honest, it lightens things up and like I stated there truly is no right or wrong answers here, just opinions

Thank You Steph for a well written response. I believe that you got what I was driving at in the jumbled mess of a post that I probably should have taken way more time to have written.

[Loni]

well i kinda fit.
i am hetero only into girls (women).
sadly my job requires a guy, and i need this job, and the way the economy is trying to get another is not looking so great.

so i must remain a guy in my income life, but spend most of my time in a skirt.
have done some "body" adjustments..with more to do along the way, but if only i could get hair to grow on top of the head. it grows like weeds every place else.

does this make me a "cd", a "ts", other?
i am just ...



Me.


.

[vivianann]

I consider myself transgendered, I have a strong feminine persona, That is how I see myself, and what other peaple tell me since I was a little boy. I am a gineophile, when I am dressed as a male or as a female, I am attracted to women only. I consider myself more female than male, and prefer to be addressed as a female no matter how I am dressed, I dont want srs, however I want to live as a woman full time, I am much more comfortable in the feminine role.

[Ressie]

There is a gray area between being a CD and TS from what I've seen in this forum. I don't like the adjective 'true' being used for any label I can think of. Are you a true homeowner, true parent, true student? You either are or aren't, but dressing can progress into female impersonation or transexualism in my view. Would anyone ask are you a false crossdresser?

[ReineD]

does this make me a "cd", a "ts", other?
i am just ..

Short answer: "other", specifically "gender non-conforming".

The labels for which there are the least ambiguity are "male", "female" and "transsexual". Each of these people have or are on their way to having their physical bodies aligned with their inner gender identities.

TS means transsexual, which is more on the binary side of the spectrum. Transsexual women, or "transwomen" do most definitely want to change (trans) their sexual characteristics (sexual), to get rid of any maleness in order to come as close to a female body as science allows (breasts, vagina, labia, extensive electrolysis, etc, plus lifetime dosages of estrogen that serves to alter brain chemistry). The condition is rather rare and transitioning from male to female is rather a matter of life or death for a transwoman (or a transman).

So unless you are willing to actually alter your primary and secondary sexual characteristics (not just "plan" on altering them ), you are not transsexual. A good, all purpose label that describes MtFs who are not male but for whom transition is not a do or die situation, is "gender non-conforming". This can cover a wide range of identity ratios.

Note, I said "gender con-conforming", but there are a slew of other synonyms if you want to use just one or two words and they are "bigender, dualgender, middlepather, inbetweener, gender fluid, genderqueer, or any other word you can think of that conveys the idea that you are not fully male, yet you have not nor are you on your way to transitioning to as fully female as science will allow.

[sometimes_miss]

What I would like to know is, How many of us are true, hetro, cross dressers here?

Difficult to say, because at any given time, there will be some who realize that what they are has changed as they become more aware and accepting of either homosexual or transsexual feelings. The huge social stigma of that can easily cause someone to deny their own sexuality because they can't accept it. Sometimes it takes years, decades, to face it, or sometimes, never, and they die still keeping their true feelings deeply hidden away even from themselves.

The word "true" meaning in this case, You embrace both your male and your female side as one. You want to go out, or stay in, and be a woman for a short time to then return to your drab state and continue in your male role.

That's not quite an accurate description of every 'true' crossdresser. Remember, what we want to do isn't necessarily congruent with who or what we are. Desires can be caused by more than one type of psychological mechanism. Sort of like the desire for a cigarette can be for the nicotine, an oral 'fix', a social escape to put the onus to keep a conversation going onto the other person you're with, a defense mechanism to suppress thoughts you don't want to deal with, etc..

I ask this because I have been reading a lot of different things here lately, mostly "I want all women's clothes in my closet and to throw away the last remaining male clothes" or "I want to get breast implants" and to me that is a sign that you may want to transition. That I think doesn't make you a cross dresser but a TS/TG but this is only my opinion.

Again, you'd have to figure out what is causing the desire to throw the clothes out, get the implants, date men, get SRS, etc. It's rarely a simple answer, but like many others, you seem to want a simple answer to things. Unfortunately, the simplest answer in this case is rarely the correct one. I know all about the Occam's razor concept, but in this case it does not apply. There are too many reasons why a person could want the body/life/lifestyle/etc of the opposite sex for there to be only one 'true' reason.

I know, and I hate, all the different labels and such as the next person but isn't it sort of clear cut that if you alter your body , such as the implants, that your beyond just simply cross dressing at that point or is it just me?

It's just you. Just kidding; most of the population prefers to jump to conclusions because it's the easiest way out. Reading hundreds of books, periodicals, watching every movie, play and tv show to learn more about gender behavior, spending decades discussing the topic on online forums is way more than about 99% of the population is willing to do, so they want a quick simple answer, and as such, insist that there must be one, and despite any evidence to the contrary they will, as you have above, create one or use the most convenient one available.
You write in your own opening post here: "I want all women's clothes in my closet and to throw away the last remaining male clothes" or "I want to get breast implants" and to me that is a sign that you may want to transition". Or you may not want to transition. It's the word 'may' which you have inserted there. Both those feelings may or may not indicate something. As such, they could mean lots of things, but it seems to you by the way you've structured that sentence that the 'may' must always mean only one of those possibilities.
What it all comes down to, is that we, nor anyone, will ever know the exact percentages of who's completely heterosexual, who's completely homosexual, who's TS pre-op, who's TS non-op, etc., especially since so many are not being counted or are in denial to varying extents.
My own curiosity would be as to why you would feel the need to ask the question, as questions like that are usually posted because the one posting it wants to get a particular answer to support their own feelings. And the answer to that is, you are just fine the way you are, and if you change how you feel, well that is fine too. Of course, if you're really, really a female inside, then the word 'fine' is a bad word for you (remember, tell a woman she looks fine and you're going to get a bad response!), so I should change it to you're a wonderful person whatever you are!

[IngeInCO]

If there was a rule book i would like an electronic copy! I like to wear women's clothes, wear a wig, put on makeup. My wife knows and supports me.
To me CD is different from sexuality and gender. I am not an expert by any means. I don't think there is a "true" or an absolute definition of a CD. We are all humans and different, we should embrace that! Accept and love ourselves!

[Taylor Ray]

The continuum of life offers many shades of diversity; for me, these variations make life very special. Often labels inhibit the expression of this diversity. The word "true" seems tricky to use because it comes off as being controlling or coercive, owing to the fact that all of our experiences are "true" to ourselves.

That being said, I often need to describe myself to others for the sake of dating. A lot of people I have met seem to equate the word 'CD' with the word 'Tranny', or any number of other words. The definitions and labels do seem to have contours and subtleties worth exploring, irregardless of proclamations of truth.

[Ciara Brianne]

Crossdressing is defined as :To dress in the clothing characteristic of the opposite sex. If we take this definition literally, then anyone who is pre-surgery is a crossdresser. That is the black and white of it. We don't live in a black and white world. We are not just dealing with shades of grey either. Our lives are lived in full technicolor, with every shade and hue. I don't like labels. Labels lead to segregation and prejudice. It stereotypes an individual. We are not stereotypes...we are individuals, each our own person. Yes, we have all shared similar experiences, not because of the stereotype, but because of who we are inside as compared to societal norms.

I believe that there is so much involved here, Psychologically and sociologically, that in order to answer your question, one would have to refer to the textbook definition, which, as previously stated, is simply; to wear clothing characteristic of the opposite sex according to societal norms. There it is, black and white.

I am a crossdresser. I love being a girl and letting my femme side out. I have fantasized about having real breasts. I don't see myself taking hormones or having reassignment surgery. I don't really know for sure where my path leads. I just know that as I have come to accept myself and get past the societal norms that were engrained at an early age, I am dressing more. I am also enjoying it more. Acceptance has gotten me past the guilt and purge mentality, which has greatly reduced my overall stress level. I feel better about myself now than I have in years...maybe better than I ever have. I'm not saying I am completely on top of this. There is still plenty to sort out in my head.

Ciara

[Gretchen_To_Be]

In response to ~Joanne~'s thread--"Are You a True CD"?

Joanne, thanks for bringing these issues to light. I've been participating in the forum for 5 months so far. I joined because I like wearing women's clothes, and came to terms with that personally after coming out to my wife. I knew there were many more men like me, based on research over the years, and wanted to find kindred spirits. Like most newbies, I found the site simply by searching for "crossdressers". Notably, I didn't search for "transsexuals".

Based on a cursory scan of the posts, I figured I was in the right place, and determined this was the most popular site on the web. But I quickly found labels getting beaten to death ad nauseum here, which I admit turned me off.

Like you I need to get something off my hairy chest. I was very, very surprised by the extent of transsexual and transgender topics, and by the "competitiveness" on the boards. Understanding fully there is a spectrum of CD to TG/TS with many personal nuances and all the other possible acronyms, I have been surprised at the "oneupmanship" ("oneupwomanship"?) that occurs here. I have seen many posts from members that are brave enough to go out in public, or even to work dressed, who assume this is the goal of all members--like it is some sort of badge of honor--and with a slight derisive tone to boot for those of us that don't. It is admirable to have that kind of conviction and commitment, and I appreciate the hard work those members do to change societal gender norms, but let's be honest: the vast majority of us won't be able to show up for work anytime soon in a skirt suit and stilettos without major professional and personal repercussions. This is not directed to those TS members that fully transition and get on with their lives as women, and revisit the forum to provide inspiration or guidance--but those that are so loud and proud, that they make all of us who are not, feel sometimes that we are somehow missing out or inadequate.

I'm sure we have all looked at the forum stats. The vast majority of forum readers haven't even made the leap to post or participate actively…only about 25%, Why is that? Privacy concerns, embarrassment, denial, shame, or maybe they are just CD curious/admirers? Those that actually join or post are a small sub-set of the "true" crossdressers in the world, I suspect. Do the vocal participating members on this forum represent the silent majority? I doubt it. And because crossdressing is so intensely personal and private for most…with the sensual and erotic elements further driving people into the closet or behind closed doors--public posts on this forum cannot accurately represent the CD community at large.

My point is that of the active members, there is a core group that is heavily vested in this forum--a still smaller sub-set of all crossdressers, and some have very strong opinions. Some are what I like to call "activist"; after all, the convert is the biggest zealot, for reasons of self-affirmation. I myself have succumbed to that urge on this very forum--"look at me, my wife is accepting, I'm so lucky, so don't give up trying to convince your SO". In retrospect those postings were arrogant--what do I anonymously know about your circumstances?

Those forum veterans that have self-actualized are quite proud and make us acutely aware of our failings or lack of CD commitment. Many members on the TG or Transitioned end of the spectrum are fond of telling us that all CDs are just TGs in training; we just don't know it or accept it yet. They lecture us on how our behavior with our spouses will lead inevitably to divorce proceedings, how natural and normal it is for a father to dress like a woman in front of his children, and how sales associates in women's clothing and shoe departments (or fellow shoppers) are all supposed to act as though it is completely routine and accepted for a man dressed as a woman to use women's dressing rooms, browse through women's lingerie, or try on women's shoes in stores. Yes, all good boundary stretching initiatives and I do respect their chutzpah, but to assume all CDs are cowards for not doing so--and that society at large is wrong for not endorsing this--sometimes smacks to me of self-delusion.

They are the terminology police and relationship experts, and will quickly make sure you know just how wrong or less than authentic you are. They'll demand you smile or show your face in photos, or to compose them better with optimal lighting and professional backdrops. They'll endlessly debate labels while posting transsexual or transgender topics in a thread called "Male to Female Crossdressing" in a forum entitled "Crossdressers.com". They will then viciously attack a mere CD who dares to post something even remotely non-TS-PC in the TS forum within.

On the other hand, there are wonderful members who always have a positive, welcoming tone to their notes. Non-judgmental, without prickly sensitive radar scanning for the slightest slights.

To answer your question, am I a "true" CD? Based on this forum, who knows. It's how I have chosen to refer to my compulsion / enjoyable hobby to my wife, so I suppose "yes". I'm a guy who loves his wife and kids, but also likes to dress in women's clothes and will work to improve a feminine illusion over the coming years. I'll try to do so without alienating my spouse, children or employer, or making anyone else uncomfortable.

Maybe naively I thought that a forum named "crossdressers.com" was primarily about wearing clothing of the opposite gender--mostly on a temporary basis. I love posts about skirts, dresses, hose, heels, wigs, makeup, corsets, etc. I understand how there are reserved threads because this has become a de facto portal for far more than crossdressers, based on the global popularity of the site. These "superficial" topics are of little interest for those on the far end of the spectrum. There appears to be a great deal of bleed-through, however, and sometimes it just gets so heavy. Maybe some acknowledgement of original intent, a bit more levity and enjoyment, and less snarky comments are in order. The newbie who is still reveling in the first leg shave, or the first pair of heels, deserves the same respect and engagement as someone living full time, for whom wearing hose or heels has by now become a jaded and dreaded pain--as many GGs view it.

I'm glad you stirred the pot, Joanne. That's what makes a forum interesting. And that ends my accusatory, holier than though post, making me as guilty as anyone I just indicted with mine.

Thanks for your contribution

Shibumi

[Brittany CD]

I think people are being a little too hard on Joanne. I think the question at hand was really if you just see yourself as a guy who happens to like women's clothing

But to answer your question Joanne, yes, I am that kind of crossdresser. I like dressing up, but I am just another guy

[Ciara Brianne]

In response to ~Joanne~'s thread--"Are You a True CD"?



The newbie who is still reveling in the first leg shave, or the first pair of heels, deserves the same respect and engagement as someone living full time, for whom wearing hose or heels has by now become a jaded and dreaded pain--as many GGs view it.



Shibumi

I like to view these forums as being for the newbies who are struggling with themselves, with the knowledge and experience of others whom have progressed further in their understanding and acceptance at their disposal. A place to show the newbies that they are not alone.


If I have ever come off as arrogant, competitive, an activist, or appeared to be trying to "one up" anyone, I apologize. It was not my intention and never will be.


Ciara

[Chardonnay Merlot]

I am a crossdresser. I love being a girl and letting my femme side out. I have fantasized about having real breasts. I don't see myself taking hormones or having reassignment surgery. I don't really know for sure where my path leads. I just know that as I have come to accept myself and get past the societal norms that were engrained at an early age, I am dressing more. I am also enjoying it more. Acceptance has gotten me past the guilt and purge mentality, which has greatly reduced my overall stress level. I feel better about myself now than I have in years...maybe better than I ever have. I'm not saying I am completely on top of this. There is still plenty to sort out in my head.

Ciara has just described me pretty much perfect.

I learned recently how much I love my femme side, because I couldn't let her out for a little bit. Now I can let fly as much as I want, and I like it.

I like being male just as much, because ultimately both sides make up me.

I appreciate Joanne bringing up the question and how it led to a discussion I learned a great deal from

[gender_blender]

I am certainly true. I take pride and frequently express myself in public through a variety of clothing of different genders.

I only date biological females.

[NicoleScott]

Shibumi, that was a great post (#60- I'm not going to copy the whole thing - scroll up to read it). I, too, have been miffed by the different rules for the TS and CD forums. My comments require some eggshell-walking so as not to appear to be critical of the mods or admins which is against the rules. But by gaining access to the forums with posting privileges, we have to agree to forum rules. The TS forum is about, and only about, TS issues. I do read some of the posts occasionally, but I have never posted there (I'm not a TS). The MtF CD forum is much more open to just about anything anybody wants to post. That's just the way it was set up, and I guess we have to live with it until it changes. It is frustrating at times to engage in or follow a discussion about crossdressing - that is, "something I do" - without hearing from those for whom being a girl/woman is "something I am". Sometimes it hard to process posts when I don't know the poster's perspective, only making sense of it by researching profiles and previous posts.
Perhaps one of the reasons it is this way is for TS folk to provide advice and support for those who think they are CDers but aren't sure if they are CD or are really TS. That's understandable, but some use access to the CD forum for ....let's just say.... less than suportive purposes. The "men are garbage" post rings a bell. Also, it baffles me why some TS think they are experts on CDing, when they admit they never were a CDer but only thought they were until they got it right.
It is the way it is, but I do wish for a forum for those of us without feminine identities, just guys whio like to dress up. Yes, I know, start your own forum.
Not meant to be disrespectful, mods and admins. Just my thoughts.

[Lorileah]

To quote a past President "Well there ya go again"

The MtF CD forum is much more open to just about anything anybody wants to post. That's just the way it was set up, and I guess we have to live with it until it changes.

Think about it. Crossdressing is the bigger area and most people are here because they are or were (I hate saying were...because can you even quit until you have GRS???) crossdressers

It is frustrating at times to engage in or follow a discussion about crossdressing - that is, "something I do" - without hearing from those for whom being a girl/woman is "something I am".

Sorry, don't see this as a huge difference. There are people here who are crossdressers who will say it is who they are.

Perhaps one of the reasons it is this way is for TS folk to provide advice and support for those who think they are CDers but aren't sure if they are CD or are really TS. That's understandable, but some use access to the CD forum for ....let's just say.... less than suportive purposes.

and apparently vice versa

The "men are garbage" post rings a bell.

which would be against forum rules. And would be deleted or removed.

Also, it baffles me why some TS think they are experts on CDing, when they admit they never were a CDer but only thought they were until they got it right.

Maybe because they have lived the life??? Why do we have to keep this as a "Us" against "Them" thing? Why do we have to have little boxes when we could be in a big world? The whole thread started as a "let's label things more" and now you choose to start with the TS members and question their intent?

You don't disrespect me. I am doing what I am asked to do and I am a member here just like most people. But you are getting close to disrespecting other members. Get back on topic "Are you a 'true' crossdreser" and get off the infighting.

[~Joanne~]

Shibumi, Thank you so much for your post. It covers a lot of different points of view that I am sure a lot of us share and is very well written .

I think people are being a little too hard on Joanne

Thank you Brittany but honestly, I do not feel as if I have been "beaten up" or "attacked" by anyone who has taken the time to respond to this thread. I asked for "opinions" and I got them Like I stated, none to this date have been right or wrong. They bring up interesting points all together

The whole thread started as a "let's label things more"

Actually that was never the intent of the thread and I tried my best to try and word it as to keep it from becoming a huge labeling thing but failed on my part. I apologized for that and thought I had broke my question down to it's barest form in post #33 to to keep this thread from becoming just another "label" thread but apparently I failed there also.

In my eyes there are only TWO sides to this coin. Either your CD or Your TS, which neither is right or wrong and based upon each different sisters view of who they are. all these other labels fall under one of the two sides. I have never understood the reasoning for all these other labels because in their truest form.....they are one or the other. Hence this theory validates my original question. Of coarse though.....It's just an opinion

[LilSissyStevie]

I'm about half way through reading Dr. Magnus Hirshfeld's 1910 classic, "The Transvestites." He's the guy that coined the term if you don't like it. In it he presents a number of case studies and then attempts to analyse what it all means. What's fascinating to me is how little things have changed in the CD world. Reading the case studies and the other cases mentioned in the analysis portion we find the following types: the man in a dress, the male lesbian, the bi when dressed, the prim and prissy asexual, the underdresser, the partial dresser, the 24/7 transgenderist, the probably TS, the transvestic fetishist, the bi gendered, the androgyne, the femulator, the drag queen, the manly man by day/ princess by night, the Milquetoast by day/ vamp by night, the Madonna, The Wh@re, the sissy, the various BDSMers, the adamant heterosexual, the autogynephile, the tg fiction reader/writers and more - all the usual suspects we encounter here every day. If I left you out, I'm sure you're in there too. Of course, everyone could be described by more than one label. Hirshfeld had a simple broad definition: if a man (a human with a penis) wore any item of clothing meant for females (a human with a vagina), he was a true crossdresser.

Labels, in the CD world, are useful when they describe and un-useful when they circumscribe. Some people just can't stand to live in a world where labels have fuzzy and shifting meanings or are meant metaphorically. They use labels to circumscribe. Everyone gets tossed into a neat little box labeled with a precise definition. Anyone that can't or won't be stuffed into one of the boxes is deemed delusional, in denial, or non-existent and invisible or {gasp} other.

I've been around here long enough to know that when someone says they are "just a man in a dress" that it isn't the end of the story it's just the beginning of a story and each person's story is unique. I'm more interested in the story than whatever labels and definitions are used to tell it. (Hint: If you want to understand what someone means by a certain label, use their definition.) Sometimes you have to use your imagination to discern the meanings of terms people use, but I think that's why Darwin, in his infinite wisdom, evolved us brains instead of computers to think with. It's the variety of stories here that keep me coming back, not that many of them match mine.

When it comes to terminology police and all the self-righteous pontificators I just reflect on those immortal words of Ronald Reagan when some self-righteous pontificator tried to interrupt his speech: "Aw, shut up!"

[Asche]

What I would like to know is, How many of us are true, hetro, cross dressers here?

The word "true" meaning in this case, You embrace both your male and your female side as one. You want to go out, or stay in, and be a woman for a short time to then return to your drab state and continue in your male role.

I ask this because I have been reading a lot of different things here lately, mostly "I want all women's clothes in my closet and to throw away the last remaining male clothes" or "I want to get breast implants" and to me that is a sign that you may want to transition. That I think doesn't make you a cross dresser but a TS/TG but this is only my opinion.

OK, I'll bite.

I don't fit your definition of "true crossdresser." Other than my body, which is unabiguously male, I don't have a "male" or "female" side to embrace or not embrace. As for "being a woman," dressing up as a woman is "being a woman" only in the sense that dressing up as Dr. Who's police box means "being a police box." I don't dress as a woman or as a man, I dress as me. As for "part time," I dress as I do most of the time, the only exceptions being when I go to work or the rare other situations where my gender-non-conformant dress might cause problems.

As for "I want all women's clothes in my closet," I do prefer skirts and dresses and such and would wear them almost all the time if I could, but have no interest in HRT or SRS, or in changing my name or pronouns. I don't think wearing them or preferring to wear them makes me any more female than wearing trousers. (But it does make me feel more "me.")

Sorry to not fit into any of your categories. I seem to do that a lot. I sometimes wonder whether God put me on this earth to be, like the Cantor set, a rich source of counterexamples.

[Taylor Ray]

In my eyes there are only TWO sides to this coin. Either your CD or Your TS, which neither is right or wrong and based upon each different sisters view of who they are. all these other labels fall under one of the two sides.

Just to make things clear, there are only five sides to a four dimensional algorithm. Either you are a quadrant-four vector manifestation, or a multi-vector spectrum instance. Other than that, if becomes merely labels. Either you are quadrant-four or not.

(no offense meant towards any posters; just responding to semantics)

[Melanie Sykes]

Just to make things clear, there are only five sides to a four dimensional algorithm. Either you are a quadrant-four vector manifestation, or a multi-vector spectrum instance. Other than that, if becomes merely labels. Either you are quadrant-four or not.

(no offense meant towards any posters; just responding to semantics)

This made me actually laugh out loud in my otherwise silent house! Thank you Taylor Ray

~Joanne~: In answer to your question, yes.