Just because you DID doesn’t mean you ARE

[Frédérique]

Leyna’s ex-CD thread was closed, but…

I invite those who are interested in discussing the peripheral issues to start new threads with appropriate titles.

Thanks for the invitation – I’ll do just that! I missed most of the earlier discussion(s), but I’m intrigued by this “peripheral” issue of dabbling in one thing or another, yet being burdened with an unwanted moniker, probably forever…

I'm bothered by the alcoholism/CD comparison that keeps coming up. Not just because it treats CDing like an illness, but b/c it assumes that everyone who has ever gotten sh*tfaced as an alcoholic. I'm sure there a lots of people who have dabbled in CDing who are not "CDers", just as there are lots of folks who drink too much who aren't alcoholics. For some people, yes, this is something you ARE. But for some people, maybe, it's just something you DO. And I desperately want to be in that second group.

This reminds me of something I wrote a while ago, namely that a male who has a homosexual experience isn’t necessarily GAY, and a woman who has a homosexual experience isn’t necessarily a lesbian. It follows that if you get drunk now and then you are not necessarily an alcoholic, if you get depressed now and then you are not necessarily a depressive, and if you, a male, try on some women’s clothing out of curiosity, you are not necessarily a crossdresser…

I think there must be plenty of people who experiment with what as CALLED crossdressing, perhaps even in separate episodes years apart, and they may come here to learn a little about it. You certainly can’t learn anything out in the wilderness of societal correctness, so this place is convenient, as well as chock full of confusing and misleading information. In short, you CAN be just a crossdresser, and not very much of one at that, or you can make crossdressing your style, or lifestyle, and challenge the status quo. You may also believe you are a woman, or you want to be a woman full time, and thus spend your life on both sides of the gender fence, as you wish…

That’s fine, but some people would just like to dress up now and then, according to their own level of interest, squeezed between familial duties and expectations, and not make a big deal out of things. This “position,” if you want to call it that, is just as valid as any other. Just because you dress in women’s clothing now and then does not mean you might want to do it 24/7, or even once in the proverbial Blue Moon. However, if you have ever crossdressed, I guess that somehow makes you a crossdresser…

I think if you come HERE, to discuss crossdressing, you’re a little more than a dabbler, or a hobbyist, and, amongst others who are wondering what it’s all about, you may feel emboldened to try things you would never do on your own. This place can be like a Marie’s Bath, where you may bring yourself up to the “temperature” of your surroundings, perhaps to fit in, perhaps to dream a little cherished dream, or perhaps to think of yourself in a different light. You will meet the good and the bad, the sweet and the tough, and you’ll get a good idea of what you’ve gotten yourself into. The world of MtF crossdressing is very strange, my friend…

Do you think you’re trangendered? No? Well, your “fellow” crossdressers (if you think you’re a CD, that is), will INSIST that your crossdressing is evidence of a transgendered mindset, waiting to break free of whatever gender you were born with, or at least a glimpse of transgendered behavior, as evidenced by your penchant for crossdressing. You may have no issues with your gender identity, but others will insist that you must, otherwise why would you be dressed like that?

But, there is some good news - you can either take it or leave it, and shed your crossdressing episode, thinking of it either as an anomaly, a failed experiment, or a pleasant memory. Really, it’s no big deal, but it’s the nature of crossdressing, as well as all other arenas where the genders get blurred, to upset the apple cart and cause consternation, or worse. It takes effort to crossdress for FUN, in this leaden communal atmosphere, and maintain a healthy, irreverent outlook. I believe that you can crossdress, or do something that others would recognize as crossdressing, and yet not really be a crossdresser in the traditional sense. Now, if you return to the scene of the alleged “crime,” and begin to don your panties as a daily affirmation, then we may have to call you a CD…

I wear a carpenter’s apron on occasion, but I can’t call myself a carpenter. I once wore cowboy boots, but I am definitely NOT a cowboy. I wear kilts, but I am not of Scottish descent. I wear knee socks, but I am not young, nor am I innocent. And, I wear women’s clothing on occasion, probably more than some men might ever think of doing, so I've come to think of myself as a crossdresser. But, I am not transgendered, I don’t wish to become a woman, nor do I “see” myself as a woman. It’s just crossdressing, a back-and-forth voyaging, or a day trip, between two distinct human regions, no big deal. You CAN be an ex-crossdresser. Your secret is safe with me…

Just because you did something once upon a time doesn’t mean you ARE something, OK?

PS – Last year I drank a bottle of scotch. It took me three months to drain the bottle. I won’t be buying another bottle anytime soon. I just thought I would mention that…

[Julogden]

Do you think you’re trangendered? No? Well, your “fellow” crossdressers (if you think you’re a CD, that is), will INSIST that your crossdressing is evidence of a transgendered mindset, waiting to break free of whatever gender you were born with, or at least a glimpse of transgendered behavior, as evidenced by your penchant for crossdressing. You may have no issues with your gender identity, but others will insist that you must, otherwise why would you be dressed like that?

The definition of transgendered that I accept and use is that of an umbrella term that does include CD's. One doesn't have to have gender identity issues to fit under the umbrella, according to my understanding of that usage of the transgender term. It includes males who are happy to be men, males who would never even think of themselves as women for a second. A history of dressing as a woman qualifies CD's as transgendered as far as I'm concerned. A male who enjoys wearing women's clothes, false breasts and makeup is transgendered behavior, nothing to do with gender identity, and that's why many people include CD's under the transgender umbrella.

Carol

[TGMarla]

No, I'm actually a real crossdresser. It's not a passing fad, or something I simply dabble in. With me, I'll admit, it's a full-blown thing.

[Kate Simmons]

I don't know what the big deal is either Freddy. I totally have fun with it and never did and don't take myself that seriously.

[Stephanie47]

I had to drift over to Wilipedia to see what the world is thinking. I think I'll accept its statement that the term "transgender" is in a state of flux. I will agree with its statement and Freddie's statement that not every instance of wearing the clothing of the opposite sex makes you a crossdresser, e.g., Dustin Hoffman playing a woman in Tootsie or a professional drag queen in it solely for the money. Those two examples seem fairly cut and dry.

As I've stated in many postings I do not know what caused me to wear women's clothing. I recently read an article stating boys will play dress up as a princess until they become aware of society's expectations. He can totally abandon playing dress up. So, why would I, as a male having put on my mom's slip for the feel of the nylon, direct me toward cross dressing?

I don't know. I don't know why I am a cross dresser. I know what cross dressing brings me, peace and serenity. Is cross dressing a substitute for getting boozed up or high on illicit drugs? Should I abandon wearing women's clothing for smoking weed, which is now legal in my state? No, I'll stay with wearing women's clothing.

What I object to is a person pushing his or her own definition or analysis of a cross dresser on others. What may be applicable to one person is not applicable for another. I am not a dabbler. However, I am not a transgendered person seeking a path to full womanhood. I wish sometimes there was more identification of the individual's status or reason for wearing women's clothing.

If you are transitioning from manhood to womanhood I can understand much of the advice given to others who may be or contemplating transitioning. However, giving the same advice to a recreational cross dresser may be injurious to their well being in society.

Perhaps that should be a subject of another thread.

[Marleena]

WB Freddy! Since this looks like the are you CD or TG debate again I'll just take the fifth right now and keep my mouth shut. If anybody can give this "stuff" up I salute them.

[Emily83]

Far Out! What's with all the lables? Why does anyone have to be anything?
Just be happy & don't judge anyone. Love! ♥♥♥

[Beverley Sims]

Frédérique,
Just because you drank a bottle of Scotch, does not mean you are an alcoholic either.

[Deedee Skyblue]

I think one of the reasons we come here is because the larger world labels us - I know it is for me. It is dismaying to me to see people here labeling each other - haven't we learned our lesson from the way we have been treated?

Deedee

[busker]

that of an umbrella term under the transgender umbrella.

Carol

but, if it is NOT raining let's NOT use the umbrella. Let's treat each and every member here as an individual. To each his or her own. Umbrellas are still very wide brushes. There are so many here who just hate "labels" but insist of terms such as umbrella and isn't UMBRELLA the biggest label of all. We aren't fish to be gathered under a cast net. if i say I'm just a crossdresser (and I have size B boobs to prove it), then that is what I am. Umbrella forces me to be in your categorization of who we are--I prefer my own category--a category of 1.

[Leyna]

Actually shed a tear while reading this. Thank you so much.

[Julogden]

I think one of the reasons we come here is because the larger world labels us - I know it is for me. It is dismaying to me to see people here labeling each other - haven't we learned our lesson from the way we have been treated?

Deedee

Labels are not inherently bad. In this case, the label is neither a restricting one nor is it a negative one, doesn't harm anyone.

In order to effectively communicate with each other, labels are often needed.

Carol

[Brynna M]

Seems like you're really complaining about the ambiguities of qualitative labels. You can't define "crossdresser" in quantitative terms so we all have our own opinions about who fits into that term. I don't think that someone who crossdressed in the past and no longer has any interest in it can continued to be labeled a crossdresser. However if you do wear women's clothes (even infrequently) and you expect to keep doing so then I think crossdresser is not an inappropriate label.

In the end labels aside, we are what we do. I am a biological male who wears clothes and cosmetics that are traditionally exclusive to biological females in my society. I fully believe I will continue to desire to do so and continue to act on that desire. That is the truth. What ever label someone chooses to assign to that truth is irrelevant to that truth. If someone chooses to believe things about me that are inaccurate because of a label then I can try to correct them but ultimately I can not control what people believe.

Labels are always over simplifications. Worthwhile people will look beyond a label for the truth. Narrow minded people will cling to the label because it is somehow easier.

[Barbara Ella]

Labels can serve a function, but eventually become useless to the individual. By this I am addressing the person who is new to say, perhaps crossdressing, just to keep it local. I got hit directly out of the blue with this 18 months ago, and had exactly zero idea of who, where, what. I needed labels and definitions and descriptions to help me enter into the community and participate in a place where I felt I would be welcome.

Believe me, it didn't take long to realize being welcome was a universal thing. With some time and participation, I easily saw the variety of individuals, and came to realize that labels have no long term use for me.

I also saw that the individuality was a thing to be celebrated, and do believe that the individual can do whatever they truly have the passion to accomplish...anything. And each individual's opinions are just that, and can have no impact on what I choose to do, if I can understand them, but not accept them.

Barbara

[PaulaQ]

The defining characteristic of alcoholism is powerlessness over alcohol. The alcoholic simply can not consistently control his drinking.

I would assert that CD / TG is similar - if you cross dress a few times in your life for a play, or halloween, or for a joke, and never think about it between times, you are not a CD.
If dressing means something significant to you, and you can't consistently go without it, you are a CD - that is you are powerless to stop your feelings about it, and it is a defining characteristic of you to varying degrees.

Fortunately, unlike alcoholism, being a CD isn't a negative thing - the only negative part about it is that people freak out over it because of social conditioning.

Whether or not a CD wants to use the label TG or not I guess is sort of up to them. I personally think that most of us fall somewhere along the TG spectrum - either male identifying with some feminine behaviors to female identifying and transitioning, to something in between the two. But I can appreciate that a male identifying CD wouldn't think of themselves as TG. That's fine by me, since many think "TG" implies that one is a transexual.

BTW, I never really drank scotch, but I am certainly an alcoholic still. Indeed, I was such an alcoholic that on my last day in rehab, as I left, I saw one of the new people coming into the center, and realized that I knew him - it was my regular bartender who was checking himself in. Yep, I was such a bad drunk that I took my bartender down with me...

[KellyJameson]

Crossdressing is an action so something someone does but the label is something external that would not exist if the person did not live in a society.

Labels are always relational so you need two or more people before you need labels.

If you are singular than there are no labels but only you.

If you wish to live freely within your own mind you must find that place that existed before there were labels that you were labelled with or labelled yourself with otherwise you will remain always being defined by others so never become the expression of you but only what others want you to be.

Being labelled or adopting the label of crossdresser may actually hide the reasons for the action because your reasons will be defined by others.

Crossdressing is a voyage whose reasons change over time so the label will separate you from yourself because labels exist in the past but the voyage happens in the now.

Labels prevent metamorphosis by interfering with self awareness.

If you wish to be free to grow you must not become trapped by words.

[busker]

If dressing means something significant to you, and you can't consistently go without it, you are a CD - that is you are powerless to stop your feelings about it, and it is a defining characteristic of you to varying degrees.

)

Paula, that could easily be the definition of compulsive behaviour. People who shop til' they drop are often compulsive in their behaviours and doing anything "to death" equally so. there could also be some psychological problems involved. Where is need to rush into anything?. You are who you are (as they say) so what is the hurry? The fact that some folks seem desperate to dress says more that they are feeling feminine. I like m usic but I don't rush around telling everybody. If people know me, soon enough it will be evident that I like music. There is a pink data fog on this forum that suggests compulsive behaviour. small samples to prop up already determined conclusions. For example, someone will say "I have lots of female friends" and that makes me more feminine (but the sample is 1 and no study of all the men who are not cds to see how many female friends they have).
It can sometimes be difficult--for the specific person-- to determine enthusiasm from compulsion.

[PaulaQ]

Paula, that could easily be the definition of compulsive behaviour. People who shop til' they drop are often compulsive in their behaviours and doing anything "to death" equally so.

My opinion is that this is a form of compulsive behavior. I think the reasons for it are likely different than compulsive shopping or compulsive drinking or drug abuse - but the end result is the same. IT has you, and not the other way around. Why else would we be drawn to do something that is still so socially stigmatized? There are easier hobbies... (My belief is that most of us express, to some extent, some portion of our identity through cross dressing. Perhaps it is only a small part - that's fine. Perhaps it is the greater part or the entirety of our identity. Also fine.)

In the absence of other people, this is really one of the least harmful compulsive behaviors I can imagine, though.

I know, at least in my case, this is certainly a compulsive behavior. I'm not dressed right now, and I feel like hammered crap because of it.

[Lisa Jeffreys]

I'm not dressed right now, and I feel like hammered crap because of it.

Wow I haven't heard that expression since I was in college. Actually the only time I ever heard that expression was when I was in college in Atlanta.

Lisa

[Lucy_Bella]

I wear a carpenter’s apron on occasion, but I can’t call myself a carpenter. I once wore cowboy boots, but I am definitely NOT a cowboy.[/COLOR]

Were those cowboy boots female cut? Was that apron pink? True clothing is just that..Clothing ! So some members like to get their kicks wearing clothing known for the opposite sex..It still makes them a cross dresser maybe not a TG because of the reason one choices to wear the clothing .. That's not so hard to understand and we are not all Doctors with degrees in physiology to place judgment ..I know why I dress and I don't judge the reasons why others choose to..I also know that my dressing started as far back as I can remember..

For some reason Ivan the bridge builder story comes to mind... You know he was world famous for all the bridges he built, or was he?.. I'll leave the story at that.. Society would mistake those of us who wear cowboy boots as us trying to be cowboys. Just as they would wearing a carpenters apron people would think you could build a house..If your not a cowboy why ya wearing those boots? If your not a carpenter why do you have the Apron on? Simple answer..Because I like wearing them and I can doesn't mean I want to be one does it?..

[Deedee Skyblue]

The problem with labels is that people expect everyone in the same box to act the same way, to think the same way, to feel the same way. I wouldn't be here if I acted the same as everyone else who might have certain similarities to me. Most of us wouldn't.

Deedee

[Wildaboutheels]

I'll never understand how and why some folks can be so "concerned" about labels for Humans. ALL other animals on the planet are [unless born and bred in zoos] likely to be raised in pretty much the same fashion.

Humans are ALL so unique because of the possible millions of combinations of Nature/Nurture. Which makes trying to label them an exercise in futility. I have no problem in that some people desperately want or need them but I tend to think that is because they have SELF DOUBTS about themselves and being able to grab onto a label and use it to describe themselves might be a bit of self preservation or self delusion.

I could care less what anyone chooses to call me or refer to me to my face or behind my back. THE ONLY thing that matters is how they interact with me. I have zero control over how people think or what they will say to others. I know from working with hundreds of people over the past forty years that EVERYONE is fair game.

Just as soon as they leave the room.

The ONLY time a label matters [IMO] is on a Dating site, where one is required to check all those little boxes IF one is on there actually looking to find a partner and not just there to type endless messages back and forth. SOP for Dating sites if one allows it.

[drushin703]

frederique:

Yes, this is a strange world, perhaps the only one on earth you can't just walk in and speek and act in inefective
generalities. This is the most honest and truthful post you have ever submitted. But I wonder, how long do you
have to do a thing before it becomes "what you do". I'm a crossdresser because I was born to be one. Now mind you,
there is no sheepskin on the wall in a lovely wooden frame declaring me as such. There is no such Hippocratic oath
that embodies my code of crossdressing ethics. I do it because I have learned to love it. And, yes, it makes love to me.
And when I don't do it, it calls me in the night and begs me to come back.

I have a carpenters apron in the garage, along with the hammers and I think some nails, i'll have to check. But if I
was a carpenter it is only because I learned to be one. Some things in life, crossdressing being one of them, is
just progressive generalized involvement. You can't teach it.
You can't tell it.

[Leyna]

But if I was a carpenter it is only because I learned to be one. Some things in life, crossdressing being one of them, is
just progressive generalized involvement. You can't teach it.
You can't tell it.

That wasn't my experience. Yes, I did some "dress up" as a kid, trying on my mom's or my sisters' things b/c II liked the feel of them. But it wasn't until I hit my 40s that I really got into crossdressing. And it actually started as a bit of research for a character I was writing. I was trying to learn how what a crossdresser would do and how a crossdresser would think so I could write a story. But then...I ended up liking it. It sucked me in. So I think it's definitely something you can learn.

[Cheryl H]

This topic keeps coming up and is the problem with "definitions". If we were to ask 1000 people who have "cross-dressed" we would get 1000 answers and I doubt anyone would agree 100%. The same with being transgender. For myself, I consider my self transgender, but not transsexual. I have no desire to alter my body with hormones or surgery, but I have a mindset that is in the middle of male and female. I enjoy expressing both halves of the spectrum. I can understand why some may feel that being a cross-dresser makes you a transgender and others feel that only cross-dressing does not. So it's a mater of personal opinion and what you feel comfortable doing. Regardless of how we see ourselves and what we are comfortable with, I think it's more important to respect and support each other as we all come to terms with what it the right path for each of us.