Another Therapy Session

[Christine.Lolita]

After I left my last therapy session I felt kind of down. I am experiencing an intense desire to be female. The Cross dressing is not doing it for me as it once did, and more over the Lolita and sissy dresses are beginning to feel wrong for me.
What I want at this moment is to be able to dress in conventional women’s clothes and look passible. The truth is I am feeling that I would much happier if I was a female. The question my therapist asked me is “how do you feel when dressed” and my answer is I feel “Right”.
I am looking deep into myself and trying to be honest with myself, and the truth is I want to be a woman, not a cross dresser, or anything else. This knowledge is new to me and I have a difficult time processing it and what it will mean for my future.
My wife has no idea how I really feel and this is eating me up inside.

[STACY B]

Checked your profile ,,lol,, Says 45 years old ,, Well ,,, Well,,, Seems that is a ripe age that it hits a lot of us round about there ,, Low T ,, Nothing more to block the intense feeling ,, Already made your way threw life ,, An usually don't care what other people think ,, Welcome to the club ,, Get off here an start getting that hair burned off an looking for a doctor ,, You are already on the right track with the therapist ,, Just keep it up yull get there !! Go,,,Go ,,, You got a whole wardrobe to buy ,,,

[I Am Paula]

Took me 'till I was 53. It was like someone threw a switch. One day I thought I could cope with lifelong GD, just by portraying a woman. The next day I felt like if I didn't do something to fix this, I was gonna blow a gasket.
Stick with the therapy. If you decide you are TS, do something about it. I lived a life of silent desperation by waiting so long.

[mary something]

It sounds like you're feeling some distress dealing with some strong feelings from your post. I read on your notes that you have just recently accepted yourself as a crossdresser in march and came out to your wife a little before? Give yourself time to process and work with your therapist, take good care of yourself and keep peeling away those layers of the onion. Best wishes!

[MysticLady]

My wife has no idea how I really feel and this is eating me up inside.

Hi Christine, I'm afraid that this something that you're going to have to discuss w/ her immediately. Those are very strong feelings. I wish I could offer a "fix it" solution but I don't know of one.

[Barbara Ella]

When it hits, it hits hard, and unexpectedly. Just 19 months ago, I realized I was a crossdresser, at 65 years old. Now it is so so much more, and i know I am a woman now. Like Stacy says, as we age, we change. Take your time, and continue to talk it through. Your feelings are honest ones. Just try to enjoy them as best as you can. If you change your dressing styles, it may alert your wife, and help her begin to question what is going on, and open up the conversation for you to take a more direct approach.

Barbara

[ReineD]

Christine, you might consider putting away the fetish wear and just start going out in the mainstream. You need to interact with others and the best way is to go out presenting as a regular female while going out to regular places like restaurants, shopping, coffee shops, etc. Wear clothes that other GGs wear even if it means jeans and cute tops, use moderate makeup (as long as the beard is covered) and no big hair, etc.

My SO has been doing this for years several times per week and it's just amazing the perspective this gives. There's no better way to get back to center than to remove the fantasy/fetish aspect from the crossdressing and to just go out a lot (and I mean A LOT) in the mainstream.

I am looking deep into myself and trying to be honest with myself, and the truth is I want to be a woman, not a cross dresser, or anything else.

If so far you've mostly worn the Lolita stuff, I'd advise you to spend about a year going out and doing ordinary things (A LOT ) and getting to know people as Christine before defining that the feeling of well-being you get when you dress is what it feels like to be a woman. I'm not saying you aren't a woman, just saying that it's good to get away from what you were doing before defining things so precisely.

As to your wife, I'd tell her that you need to have a lot of ordinary experiences presenting as Christine, tell her you're tired of the fantasy aspect of it all and wait awhile to see how this makes you feel before telling her that you want to transition. I'm not suggesting you should lie, just suggesting that you take a year to explore and really find out what it's like before possibly jumping the gun and saying things over which you may well change your mind.

[MysticLady]

and no big hair, etc

...........................

As to your wife, I'd tell her that you need to have a lot of ordinary experiences presenting as Christine, tell her you're tired of the fantasy aspect of it all and wait awhile to see how this makes you feel before telling her that you want to transition. I'm not suggesting you should lie, just suggesting that you take a year to explore and really find out what it's like before possibly jumping the gun and saying things over which you may well change your mind.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. This would be a wise move in my opinion.

[mary something]

I agree with Reine, her advice seems very wise to me. It is very important to get out and about and dip your toes in the water first.

[docrobbysherry]

Unfortunately, Christine, passing DOES make a difference. People will treat u much differently if they perceive u to be a female. That doesn't mean u shouldn't go out, tho, if they don't.

Most folks will be polite and treat u cordually even if they see u as a man in a dress. It helps when u try to blend. People r less offended by those looks. Over the top attire invites over the top remarks!

[KellyJameson]

The most important gift you can give yourself is to separate the fantasy of being female from the day to day reality of living as one.

A Lolita or sissy dress look is driven by male sexual desire and it could be fantasy of a sexual nature that is being turned inward so you have turned yourself into a love object that is loved by you and this is called Autogynephilia

This seems to be very common among heterosexual crossdressers but sex is not gender identity.

I would strongly encourage you to honestly look at the motivations that are creating your feelings.

I'm beginning to think that heterosexuals should be particularly cautious in thinking they are experiencing GD because of the possibility that their sexuality is distorting their understanding.

Here is a link on Autogynephilia if you are interested. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22005209

[Christine.Lolita]

I have never heard of this before. And it does kind of make sense to me. I am going to discuss this with my therapist.
Thank you for this information. I need to look into this.

[PaulaQ]

I would strongly encourage you to honestly look at the motivations that are creating your feelings.

I'm beginning to think that heterosexuals should be particularly cautious in thinking they are experiencing GD because of the possibility that their sexuality is distorting their understanding.

Here is a link on Autogynephilia if you are interested. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22005209

Although I agree with Kelly that you need to be very, very sure that you aren't confusing the fantasy of being a woman with the reality of it, I will just say that unfortunately, like just about everything else about transexualism, the science behind the theory of AGP is not very good, in my opinion. But before you just say "well, I'll just ignore it", almost none of the science for any of the theories of gender are very good, because for the most part, modern medicine doesn't seem to give a crap. So congrats - you may or may not have a condition that in severe cases makes you want to jump in front of a train, but figuring out what you need to do is mostly DIY, with some guidance from a therapist. Sucks, but thems the breaks.

For examples of problems in these ideas:
1. are gender and sexual orientation independent, or connected somehow?
2. Blanchard (creator of AGP) posits that heterosexual MtF's are generally suffering from AGP, because they always have a transvestic fetish, while homosexual MtF's NEVER do. Unfortunately, an NIH study found that while hetero MtF's are WAAAY more likely to have a tranvestic fetish, homosexual MtF's can as well - it's just less common. Unfortunately too, all these studies are on fairly limited, somewhat self-selected, not especially diverse populations. (i.e. mostly middle-class white guys from one region of the US.)
3. If there is a difference between hetero and homosexual MtF's - then where do MtF's fall who switch sexual orientations after some time on HRT? I've talked to several girls who claim this happened to them, although by no means does it happen to all.

Now I'm just a layman, but I'm fairly skeptical of any idea that doesn't somehow link this back to biology. I'm fully willing to accept that there are differences in populations of MtF's, age that someone feels they must transition, sexual orientation, genetics, maybe external factors (issues during pregnancy, etc.), all manner of things. As far as I can tell - all that is on the table. Just none of it is vetted well enough that I'd feel awesome about risking my future happiness on the conclusions of the science. But - the joke is on us - because that's exactly what we get to do.

[ReineD]

... the science behind the theory of AGP is not very good, in my opinion.

... except there are literally hundreds of crossdressers in this forum over time who've said that it applies to them once they become aware that the condition exists, even if they are not overtly sexual every time they dress.

Blanchard's position that hetero TSs are predominately motivated by AGP may have been too all-encompassing since his sample study was small and self-selected. But, the condition does exist, quite apart from discussions of it's application to hetero transsexuals, among crossdressers. I think this is why we have so many crossdressers mistake their feelings of euphoria or extreme well-being when they dress, for the notion that this is what it must feel like to be a woman so therefore they "must" be women, or they "want to be" women.

I'm quoting this for emphasis. I couldn't agree more:

I'm beginning to think that heterosexuals should be particularly cautious in thinking they are experiencing GD because of the possibility that their sexuality is distorting their understanding.

Here is a link on Autogynephilia if you are interested. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22005209

[I Am Paula]

I was waiting for someone else to say it (polite Canadian that I am.) I think your manner of dress shows a much more fetishistic than transgender behaviour. I'm glad you're considering dropping, or at least waysiding it, in favour of trying to fit in better. I certainly can't tell you what you are, but I agree with the posts that say, get out there and see what it's like in the real world.
You may choose to present any way that suits you, and please do, but I've never met a TS that showed any similar fetishistic behaviour. Most want to blend, or, even better, disappear into the crowd.
Please accept these opinions in the good nature they are intended.

[mary something]

The poster make great points and it leads to the question of what did you get out of the lolita fashions and will presenting in public as a woman more meet that same need. As reine mentioned its time to get out there and see!

[Rianna Humble]

I have a number of problems with both Kelly's and Reine's reasoning on AGP.

My biggest problem with Kelly's comment is that in terms of transsexuals, the words "homosexual" and "heterosexual" do not have the same meaning as they do for other parts of the population at large. Is an MtF TS homosexual or heterosexual if she is attracted to other women? Or does this change, and if so when?

Before I began my transition, my feelings of attraction would have been labelled one way by outsiders because I was seen as a man. Now, a reasonable way into my transition, they are labelled the other way by people who do not know me personally because they have not changed. So at what point did I flip between hetero and homo?

My problems with Reine's reasoning (as I have discussed privately with her in the past) are threefold:
1 Blanchard specifically excluded any evidence that his hypothesis did not work thus invalidating the "science"
2 Blanchard's hypothesis was aimed solely at Transsexuals and thus were not intended to apply to non TS cross-dressers
3 The fact that some - or even numerous - cross-dressers thinks that Blanchard's hypothesis could apply to them if you only ignored my first two points, does not validate its application to transsexuals

I definitely agree with all those who have suggested to Christine that she needs to try to experience living full-time as a woman before deciding that she is or isn't TS.

[PaulaQ]

Blanchard's position that hetero TSs are predominately motivated by AGP may have been too all-encompassing since his sample study was small and self-selected. But, the condition does exist, quite apart from discussions of it's application to hetero transsexuals, among crossdressers.

So he was wrong then. He made a big prediction - that non-homosexual (that's actually what he predicted) MtF's were motivated by transvestic fetishism, and that homosexual MtF's were not. There *is* a big difference in the rate of transvestic fetishism between the two groups, but it isn't a defining characteristic, at least based on the last NIH survey I read. (Although it was much larger sample than Blanchards, it also has selection bias problems - which they duly note in their paper.) So he predicted something, the prediction didn't pan out - and we still believe his theory why exactly?

I think this is why we have so many crossdressers mistake their feelings of euphoria or extreme well-being when they dress, for the notion that this is what it must feel like to be a woman so therefore they "must" be women, or they "want to be" women.

I don't think this is *at all* what Blanchard, or Anne Lawrence (who's followed on in his work) are suggesting! For one thing, what difference in the treatment of AGP MtF transexuals (if we accept some modified version of AGP as a reality) should we take? There is NO suggestion, at least in Lawerence's work that the AGP MtF's aren't really transexual. If anything, there's some arm-waving that their reasons for being transexual should be taken into account during their treatment. (Note: no concrete suggestions - just arm-waving - she doesn't know either. )

Further, the NIH survey found that the so-called AGP MtF's actually tend to have a LOT better self-image after transition and surgery, while traditional homosexual MtF's tended to be more prone to some amount of body dysphoria after transition. So if anything, one might conclude that the AGP folks, if that's real, are better off...

My opinion is that AGP may very well be a real source of transexuality - but it likely isn't purely a psychological phenomenon, there is likely and underlying genetic or environmental (in utero) trigger for it too, that it is a combination of biology and psychology.

So seriously - what is it that heterosexuals should be cautious of? ANYBODY who considers transition should be cautious that they need this, because it isn't very easy to do. Both homosexual and heterosexual MtF's can apparently feel transvestic fetishism, and I think anybody who seriously considers transition needs to be sure that the fantasy of living as a different gender isn't what motivates them, that they have a real need for such a drastic change.

I'm sorry - but I just don't see the same conclusions in these papers, even if they are totally correct, which they obviously are not, that you do. I mean this with all due respect, and I'm an engineer, not a psychologist, but I can usually spot a questionable assumption when I encounter one.

My biggest problem with Kelly's comment is that in terms of transsexuals, the words "homosexual" and "heterosexual" do not have the same meaning as they do for other parts of the population at large. Is an MtF TS homosexual or heterosexual if she is attracted to other women? Or does this change, and if so when?

The really correct terminology would be to refer to androphilic and non-androphilic MtF's. We have to use the horrible term "non-androphilic, because there do seem to be similarities between bisexual and gynephilic MtF's - the NIH study did validate that, and that actually is one of Blanchard's claims, and a fairly significant one, because it adds some credence to the idea (and a really unpopular idea politically in our community) that gender and sexuality are orthogonal vectors to one another. That may not be the case, and may be one of the most significant contributions to theory that Blanchard made, along with the notion that AGP may be a psychological cause that pushes someone over the tipping point to becoming a MtF transexual. Although I would be shocked if biology didn't play a big, big role here too.

[Rianna Humble]

I'm not sure how your introduction of the term androphilia is supposed to make it easier for me to accept Kelly's warning to what she calls "Heterosexual" TS's when she does not define what she means by that term.

Neither can I reconcile your introduction of androphilia with Kelly's apparent suggestion that some TS might not experience Gender Dysphoria

[PaulaQ]

I wasn't trying to clarify Kelly's warnings / suggestions. Simply pointing out that gender relative terms like "heterosexual" and "homosexual" are just impossibly vague when applied to transgender individuals, and in particular TS.

I definitely agree with you that GD to some degree is common to most TS individuals, regardless of sexual orientation. The GD can be fairly mild, or really disabling - I don't think the extent of it matters, and at least based on girls I've talked with here, it varies quite a lot from person to person.

[ReineD]

My problems with Reine's reasoning (as I have discussed privately with her in the past) are threefold:
1 Blanchard specifically excluded any evidence that his hypothesis did not work thus invalidating the "science"
2 Blanchard's hypothesis was aimed solely at Transsexuals and thus were not intended to apply to non TS cross-dressers
3 The fact that some - or even numerous - cross-dressers thinks that Blanchard's hypothesis could apply to them if you only ignored my first two points, does not validate its application to transsexuals

My comments were limited to crossdressers and not transsexuals. I did say that I think Blanchard painted with a broad brush with his position on female-attracted transsexuals, since his study sample was poor. Yet there are crossdressers who freely admit they are AGP, whenever there is a thread about it on the other side. However, I'm not entirely familiar with the studies that have been done subsequent to Blanchard. I'll make a point to look them up someday, but I think (not sure) that other people have investigated the question and have found that crossdressers who are AGP also seek to transition. This is when Kelly's point applies. People should not confuse sexual attraction with gender identity.

I do know that A Lawrence backs up the AGP theory but she has suggested it is not a paraphilia, but rather it's own, valid, sexual attraction. I like this approach since it removes any idea that AGP is a pathology.

[PaulaQ]

I'm sorry, but I found Lawrence's papers to be real long on describing a typical MtF transexual (she's quite accurate about this, btw), but real short on predicting much of anything that's testable. I like the idea better of "falling in love with your idealized female image" a lot better than comparisons of MtF transexuals with pedophiles, and other extreme paraphiliacs, which is what she suggests. Unfortunately, being more palatable doesn't have much to do with the truth of the matter, and I'm skeptical.

BTW, the idea of MtF transexualism as a paraphilia is alive and well in some circles. One of the girls in my support group's Dad is trying to get her to go to a doctor (I forget his name at the moment), who is developing treatments for pedophilia, to try to "cure" her, and make her feel like a boy again. Lest you think that this father is just some ignorant fool - he's actually a licensed medical doctor. He's just really intolerant.