Mary something said in post 100: "I'm not sure it's even possible to pass all the time."
I know lots of trans women who pass all the time, myself included. They are not gender varients though. They transitioned fully without making compromises.
Mary something said in post 100: "I'm not sure it's even possible to pass all the time."
I know lots of trans women who pass all the time, myself included. They are not gender varients though. They transitioned fully without making compromises.
Misty, I think you raise an important point. What people who want to transition really need is real criticism, telling them about the things that don't work, etc. Most transitioners delude themselves about what they really look like and how they are perceived by others. I know of what I speak I was there. I think what we might have to say in the form of criticism would nothing compared to what most people will think when they see. I see avatars and I think oh my god, do they look in the mirror before they take a picture. Learning to critically assess yourself is crucial.
Nobody for instance would consider Frances as anything other than a woman even if she wore jeans and button down shirt. It's not clothes and presentations. It is how you move, the space you occupy, how you occupy that space, how you talk to people (not voice but body language) how you walk gesture etc.
Last edited by Kathryn Martin; 05-10-2013 at 06:10 PM.
"Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)
Thanks bad tranny....thanks for crapping on my moment of happiness in the past two days of hell on earth...
Originally Posted by Frances
If you pass all the time then why no pics?? Afraid us bearded bushy eyebrowed folk will get jealous?
Last edited by Rianna Humble; 05-11-2013 at 01:36 AM. Reason: You know multiposting isn't allowed. Also cut back the catty comments or this thread is done
Morgan Lynn Scatterbrain
Frances, haven't I read your posts before that your facial structure was already in the female range?
but anyway, was just trying to make the point that voice for example is important when it comes to passing, how someone would know what Lynn's voice sounds like over this forum is beyond me
Last edited by mary something; 05-11-2013 at 05:32 AM.
"In our lives, change is unavoidable, loss is unavoidable. In the adaptability and ease with which we experience change, lies our happiness and freedom."
"My actual gender identity emerged as I healed from the scars of childhood not because of those scars" - Kelly J
actually i skyped with her a number of times over the years...she couldnt "not pass" if she tried...
her comment about no compromise is totally true ..of course a little luck helps too..
I removed all my pictures and personnal information after the "incident" with the transphobic forumite. I was quite present on this forum before. I have been a member since 2005.
I'll post some pictures temporarily, but like mary something says, you cannot hear my voice on the pictures. I am 5' 7", 46 years old and post-op.
Edit: I removed the photos.
Last edited by Frances; 05-12-2013 at 06:54 AM.
Yes I remember your pics now! You're beautiful honey, even you're height is perfect, maybe I was wrong cause as long as you don't sound like James earl jones I think you'll be just fine no matter the voice
"In our lives, change is unavoidable, loss is unavoidable. In the adaptability and ease with which we experience change, lies our happiness and freedom."
"My actual gender identity emerged as I healed from the scars of childhood not because of those scars" - Kelly J
You are post op! You don't have to worry about passing. You're the real deal sweetie
Very cute pics!
Last edited by Rianna Humble; 05-11-2013 at 01:38 AM. Reason: Either quote or don't use the quote function
Morgan Lynn Scatterbrain
...and thank you for making my point much better than I ever could.
As for Frances, she is incomparable to any other TS I personally know. She is certainly a doll and very sweet, but even she will admit to being genetically gifted.
Ooops, guess I started something with my passing comment. Sorry people.
Misty, I really do think that younger people can easily blend in, while it is more difficult for older folks without FFS. I was saying this to encourage Lynn to go out since I think this is the best way to help clarify things.
To Lynn ... Misty is right, no one can tell from a tiny pic in a thread what you really look like in RL. But, if my SO can do it (she's mid-50s without FFS), so can you. Don't get me wrong, my SO is read especially when she talks to people, but she is feminine. The people that she interacts with do respect her for who she is and we (and she) very seldom get any grief. What all these people are thinking privately, we don't know.
The ladies in this forum are correct, "passability" is nice but not crucial, not in our day and age. It's more about how you carry yourself and you have to do the basics of course ... no salient male cues like beard, bushy eyebrows, hairy arms & legs, etc. And dress like all the other GGs. And work on your voice. If you can't change it, don't go into a falsetto, just try to speak softly.
... and you'll do just fine.
Reine
And I thought people were trying to stop having another computer get thrown through the window! Just like not knowing what a person actually presents as in real life,no one here other than the OP knows what is really said between themselves and their wife..I think there is more than a few issues here as didn't this all start with cybersex?
Reine to a woman that has transitioned, being passable is NOT being read when she talks to people....its not blending in ...being tolerated and accepted vs being embraced and having your femaleness simply assumed and directly reflected back at you are two different things...
Its totally unfair, but for a person that is living permanently as a female , the benefits of passing cannot be overestimated....not passing means you have to learn a whole new skill set to have a great quality of life... lots of folks dont pass and they get around it with a good attitude and usually by exuding an aura of femaleness that can't be denied even tho they are not really looking like it...that's really tough but sometimes it must be done...i also know some people that are flat out delusional about passing...my one story is about a person that i met through my electrologist that actively bragged about her passibility despite razor stubble and constantly adjusting her wig which did not fit...whatever works for you i thought... i must admit i sat there and said "oh yes you look great" but gently commented that she might consider getting working on that stubble...on the other hand my "big sister" was very critical of my ffs plans...i was physically scared and i rationalized what i needed...her advice made a $50k investment worth it...my choices would have been a disaster...thank goodness she was honest with me..
The concept of passing is different if you come at this from a perspective of a person that has a choice in how they present, someone who has only a momentary stake in the day to day ups and downs of being read out in public.. especially when you consider that basically when your SO is out she can't communicate with people unless she risks being read... its a great thing for a bi-gendered person to look pretty good, and mostly blend in as long as they dont talk...lots of cd's would envy that...
I think there is a RIGHT way to encourage ts people...which is to emphasize the positive and put a boot in their butt and push them out the door to find out for themselves...and that means NO checking out of the self serve line at the supermarket..no shuffling through the mall with your head down, and no mumbling and pointing to your choice at the restaraunt..you have to actually live...
I think the right way to do a favor to someone consider going out in context of being ts is brutal honesty...thats really tough with pictures...people view us from every single angle and head on shots way overstate "passability"...lynn has work to do to learn the right female image for herself... many people will read her is my best guess....i was read 1000 times before ffs....i learned to be ok with that over time...i learned which wigs worked better, which clothes worked better and only by talking to people and gauging their reactions did i learn my own true voice...which turned out to be basically my old voice with some sugar and spice ....
PS--lynn has been really really fearlessly honest and open...responding directly to all comments....we owe it to her to get it right...
there was NO cybersex...lynn got a cybersex request and responded sarcastically(which never plays in cyberspace)....
FFS is not ever ever neccessary for anyone...being "totally" passable is never ever neccessary for anyone... but if you believe you will pass all the time and you are planning to transition, you are in for lots of disappointment...especially if your state of mind is intoxicated by femininity...
Can you elaborate on the "incident"
You're a very beautiful woman. I would proud to display my pictures if I were you. Kudos
I must agree...Don't let this intoxicate you. Your best bet is to handle this with a clear and realistic conscience. Don't let it get the best of you.
The incident in question resulted in many suspensions, bannings, departures and rancor. A lot of good people left the site. I am still simmering. I would rather not elaborate on it.
Yes. Thanks for your perspective. I can see your point and appreciate your post. Any fool can post, the point is to to understand. Thank you for letting me see the bigger picture.
Kaitlynn you expressed something I was trying to say but didn't. How do you know if your passing as a woman or as an accepted ts? Sometimes it feels one way, other times it feels like the other, in my case being 5'11 and heavy is an obstacle... Only one can be changed.
Ruby and kaitlynn- how do you tell the caterpillar that you don't accept it as a butterfly?
Last edited by mary something; 05-11-2013 at 09:53 AM.
"In our lives, change is unavoidable, loss is unavoidable. In the adaptability and ease with which we experience change, lies our happiness and freedom."
"My actual gender identity emerged as I healed from the scars of childhood not because of those scars" - Kelly J
Update: We slept in the same bed last night........I cuddled her to sleep while we watched a movie. We didn't really talk too much because us idiots usually screw things up with our mouths open. It was nice. Still a little uncomfortable but as far as things go, I think for now we are ok. She started a new job today and when she left the house she turned back around and looked up at me holding our baby girl. She leaned in and kissed the baby, then looked back at me, rolled her eyes and smirked and gave me a kiss. Then she told me she loves me.....I think we're ok. All my clothes are still in a tote in the back of my car. My pillow, toothbrush and other crap is still at my office but I'm thinking that maybe the "collecting and removing" of my stuff from the house may have triggered a thought of regret in her mind for freaking out on me. I think we may just have a good weekend
Edit---- we did talk yesterday...text talking while I was at work ( I got ahead of myself with this post and forgot this part :-p ) I asked her what I can do to fix this?? And she said " come up with a smart strategy that is realistic to get us to the next chapter of our lives in a civilized manner putting the kids first". Which was really cool and sorta means she wants to become more independent from me, which is good! In a way, I want her to have more freedom from the kids and me.....cuz I don't care who you are you can overdose on people....anyway....I'm a scatterbrain for sure
Last edited by Lynnmorgan451; 05-11-2013 at 11:47 AM. Reason: Scatterbrained
Morgan Lynn Scatterbrain
Idc if I'm passable or not but I feel good and don't make fun of my pouty face cuz my smile is blah.
http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/...ps397a75a1.jpg
Last edited by Sandra; 05-11-2013 at 04:12 PM. Reason: Pic way to big, read the rules about external link and the sizes.
Morgan Lynn Scatterbrain
Oh my..........
"Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)
Good luck! Keep posting!
"In our lives, change is unavoidable, loss is unavoidable. In the adaptability and ease with which we experience change, lies our happiness and freedom."
"My actual gender identity emerged as I healed from the scars of childhood not because of those scars" - Kelly J
I know Kaitlyn.
At any rate, I made a suggestion directly to Lynn who does not want to transition, and I was suggesting that she should go out for a year as herself to see how she feels about it all in twelve months time. I'm guessing that Lynn would also not want to have FFS at this time, nor take hormones which would pretty well annihilate her sex life with her wife. So, she has no option but to do what my SO has done and minimize male gender cues in different ways, and completely blend into the crowd when out and about as long as she is at the periphery of everyone's attention. At the same time we all know that a feminine presentation for most people who have not had FFS and HRT is not fool proof when interacting directly with someone, although younger people do have a much better chance of accomplishing this that middle aged folks.
I was also pointing out to Lynn that being read in this context (given that she does not want to transition, have FFS, nor take HRT at this time), is not the end of the world either ... or it certainly has not been for my SO. She knows a lot of people (outside of the LGBT community) who do not know her as a man, but who totally respect her for who she is and who are very friendly to us.
I'm not suggesting that transwomen should walk around having tell-tale signs they were born in a male body, although I do wish to point out for Lynn's benefit because she's fairly new, that it can take some years after FFS before this is accomplished.
Reine
I have never heard anyone who can "pass" say that it's not important or overrated. Attitude is a great if you don't care if you get read. My money says that if these girls could experience what it's like to truly pass as a woman ..... They'd change their tune.I know Kaitlyn.
Last edited by kellycan27; 05-11-2013 at 05:34 PM.
Wow 5 pages already and nothing really resolved yet, maybe a truce that's it.
Well hopefully we are working things out. It kinda feels like we are :-/
And btw everybody , I've been on hormones for almost two yrs.
anyway I can't even begin to tell you all how much I appreciate your input and guidance. Even though I'm pig headed stubborn and obnoxious I really thank you all. Even the mean ones. Especially the mean brutally honest ones
Morgan Lynn Scatterbrain
Good to hear, LynnWell hopefully we are working things out. It kinda feels like we are :-/
Especially the mean brutally honest ones
And to love someone is to be brutally honest (when the time is right) in my opinion.
Passable or not, I think you are pretty!
(You are almost smiling in the red top too)
Learning to be me - the best me I can be
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