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Thread: Are transsexuals broken?

  1. #26
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    I don't know if broken is the best word but definitely "or suffer from a medical condition which has a medical resolution to it." as you also stated it in the op is the way I feel about.

  2. #27
    Senior Member melissaK's Avatar
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    OK Kathryn, I’ll come out and play. And I'm sure I can say in 15,000 words what some like Arbon and Mary Something said just as well in far fewer words.

    This thread is tragic. I’m not buying that I am “broken,” and I don’t think anyone should. I wrote my opposition to the idea in the thread in Safe Haven that covered this.

    Kathryn’s position makes no sense to me - true TS are born broken and then can be healed? Everyone else too bad soo sad??

    Lea’s comment it’s like being born with a cleft palate? My nephew is a terrific kid and he wasn’t born broken. He was born with genetic variation that makes life difficult. Surgery helped, but he still has speaking issues. So he’s still broken???

    Bad Tranny feels she’s always been broken. Not just that she felt different, but broken? Sweetie . . . . that’s sad.

    I was born destined to be “me” - and I’ll concede society “broke my spirit” to be “me” and I have spent my life trying to live as not “me.” But they didn’t break “me,” and I wasn’t born “broken.”

    I think you who endorse the “broken” concept, all obfuscate genetic differences and conditions by imposing a value judgment on them. You label the worth of the variation when you label it as being “broken.”

    Where will you stop? My red hair is a genetic mutation that’s pretty rare, even unheard of in some parts of the world, only 1-2% of all people have it worldwide. It brings derision upon me, people point at me, kids taunted me, disgusting slang expressions are hurled at me in the work place. If I hate my hair, if I think its not right, will you label it as a sign I’m broken? Does Lady Clairol fix me?

    The fact you can perform some cosmetic surgery (SRS, BA, FFS, Electrolosis) and chemical alterations (HRT) on one variant type of person we call TS such that the person feels better, does not mean you are “fixing” anything. It’s just treating a condition until they fell better. There’s nothing wrong with making a person feel better, but its wrong to say they were broken.

    The science of living things is moving entirely to genetics, and, genetics interaction with environment. Genetic make-up is a condition. It doesn’t need to be judged as “broken” or “unbroken,” it is just something that is. The current DSM is brand new, and it’s obsolete already and is being criticized as a tool that organizes based upon subjective variation from “normal”, not upon objective scientific criteria.

    “The creators of the D.S.M. in the 1960s and ’70s “were real heroes at the time,” said Dr. Steven E. Hyman, a psychiatrist and neuroscientist at the Broad Institute and a former director at the National Institute of Mental Health. “They chose a model in which all psychiatric illnesses were represented as categories discontinuous with ‘normal.’ But this is totally wrong in a way they couldn’t have imagined. So in fact what they produced was an absolute scientific nightmare. Many people who get one diagnosis get five diagnoses, but they don’t have five diseases — they have one underlying condition.”

    Dr. Hyman, Dr. Insel and other experts said they hoped that the science of psychiatry would follow the direction of cancer research, which is moving from classifying tumors by where they occur in the body to characterizing them by their genetic and molecular signatures.

    Dr. Insel started a federal project called Research Domain Criteria, or RDoC, which he highlighted in a blog post last week. Dr. Insel said in the blog that the National Institute of Mental Health would be “reorienting its research away from D.S.M. categories” because “patients with mental disorders deserve better.” (From a NY TIMES article 5/6/13)

    I fight hard to overcome societies marginalization of “me” for being “different” and my life is tangled in a web of relationships with those who follow all of societies rules, and judge me on my variance from “normal.” But I will do all that I can to be “me.”

    I will not willingly wear a label, saying I am “broken.” Scarlett Letters on adulterers, Yellow Stars of David on Jewish, nothing much good comes from branding those who are different. I’ll not be branded as “broken.”
    Last edited by melissaK; 05-07-2013 at 03:11 AM.
    Hugs,
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    "Sometimes, it's even better."
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  3. #28
    Silver Member Kathryn Martin's Avatar
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    Misty, I transitioned in place, live in the same community and do the same work than before. What is happening now though is that the relevance of having been afflicted with transsexualism fades and I am witnessed for who I am. What was broken is finally put together the right way.

    The first most visceral reaction to being told that you are broken is rejection or some form of denial that this would be the case. It comes from all of the negative connotations around the word broken. But for me understanding my own pathology and realizing that I was afflicted (broken) by being born with the wrong reproductive configuration and genitals was huge. It offered a way to heal myself. What transsexuals are afflicted with and thus experience is not a normal biological variation, it is rather an exception to that norm. Like Lissa's nephew who through surgery and treatment has achieved normalcy (albeit with speaking issues remaining) I have achieved normalcy, that is overcome my pathology, although I still am incapable of menstruating or bearing children. I am healed.

    Lissa, I totally disagree with your comment that this imposes a value judgement on anyone else. You attack my views because you suspect that somehow I value others less because they are in my view not transsexual. Nothing could be further from the truth. First of all I consider myself (transsexual) as afflicted (broken) and the conditions under which I (transsexual) can be healed. I also state that others (gender variant) experience their distress because the culture bound notions around variations in expression do not permit them to live full lives resulting in deep psychological distress. I do not say so sad. Because I am not gender variant, how can I talk about what would heal the gender variant. But overcoming marginalization and dehumanization is certainly one of them. I am well aware that the NIMH has moved away from the DSM which we all know is deeply flawed. Insel's statement in this regard is very enlightening because it in fact reveals the quackery in psychiatric and psychological research that exists today. The model they are moving towards is a much better model because it will put real dollars behind the much needed research into all psychiatric conditions.

    I don't wear a label that says I am broken. In fact, thankfully that label is almost gone, as I integrate and submerge into normalcy.

    What I find fascinating is the attempt to parley what we suffer from and what gender variant suffer from into a "normal" variation of human existence. There is a difference between the sexes not from a cultural or political perspective but certainly from biological perspective. So if your brain is organized one way and your reproductive system another way then that is not normal. It is broken. If someone says to me "you are broken" and I say "no, but I am not, I am just a normal variation of human existence" then I will have closed the door on what it might take to heal what I am afflicted with. Your nephew had surgery because his cleft palate needed to be fixed for all kinds of reasons not the least of which was his survival both physically, socially and emotionally. Declaring ourselves normal in our affliction removes the need for treatment both literally and figuratively to address our problem. If I answer "yes" to the question however, then the conversation turns to what can be done to help and assist in me overcoming the affliction.

    The fact you can perform some cosmetic surgery (SRS, BA, FFS, Electrolosis) and chemical alterations (HRT) on one variant type of person we call TS such that the person feels better, does not mean you are “fixing” anything.
    This statement tells every 15 -20 year old transsexual that they can never be whole. It is the epitome of hopelessness. You can never be healed from your affliction and no matter what you do you will always be a man or a woman according to your birth sex. It condemns every transsexual including me to remain defective for the rest of our lives. I can "feel" better but I will always be what I was born as. It is the most devastating statement I could imagine.

    PS. Just to clarify I meant not only young transsexuals, but those are the ones I am really concerned about.
    Last edited by Kathryn Martin; 05-07-2013 at 12:14 PM.
    "Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)

  4. #29
    Silver Member STACY B's Avatar
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    You tell um Kathryn ,,, I couldn't have said it Better myself ,, If its Broke fix it ,, If it ain't broke don't fix it ,, Some of us Need fixing ,,lol,,,

  5. #30
    Minority of One Lynnmorgan451's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marleena View Post
    @ Lynn, I don't know how you came up with the idea that a postop (now woman) could be in denial? It makes no sense at all. I think you need to educate yourself about what being a transsexual is all about. Google is your friend.
    Because I believe in purpose...I think there is a reason we are like this...is that stupid? I think that the reason goes beyond living a depressing life until they day you get your wang cut off, just to blend back into society......call me whatever you wanna call me but I THINK stuff.......and I'm not BROKEN
    Morgan Lynn Scatterbrain

  6. #31
    Silver Member Angela Campbell's Avatar
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    OK so if I am broken what is broke. Is it my brain because it doesn't match my body? Is it because my body formed differently than the brain? Is there something else that is broken that does not allow me to just accept that the two do not match? Is this just the result of some chemical imbalance inside of my Mothers body while I was being formed? Is it just a mental condition I have allowed to grow? Maybe my creator just put me here to be entertainment for everyone else. Maybe I was meant to learn from the struggle.

    Either way it is what it is and it is my lot to find a way to live a life of some kind. I don't want to be "more tranny" than you. I don't want to be a tranny at all. I am though and I am the only one who can deal with it. Is something really broken if it was designed that way?
    All I ever wanted was to be a girl. Is that really asking too much?

  7. #32
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    Kathryn you make some excellent points, I agree with what you say with a few subtle differences. We live in a broken world, it's a repeatable observation that entropy and disorder always increases. Every person has challenges to overcome in this life, we are lucky to know what our challenge is. We are no more broken than anyone else, I would argue even less so. Please remember that nature loves variation, our society doesn't.

    We are intrinsically social animals, we NEED social interaction that affirms us. Biologically we are primates and have evolved to live in communities with each other with distinct roles given to different members. Babies in orphanages that don't receive adequate social contact with their caregivers suffer severe damage to their psyche. Transsexuals who are assigned to a gender role that is incompatible with their nature also face a lack of social interaction that affirms us. The fact that you were able to identify your problem, determine what you needed to feel comfortable in a new gender role that was true to you, and then implement that plan in a society as binary as ours is only proof to me how NOT broken you are.
    "In our lives, change is unavoidable, loss is unavoidable. In the adaptability and ease with which we experience change, lies our happiness and freedom."

    "My actual gender identity emerged as I healed from the scars of childhood not because of those scars" - Kelly J

  8. #33
    Just A Simple Girl Michelle.M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melissaK View Post
    I'm not buying that I am “broken,” and I don’t think anyone should.
    I couldn't agree more, and I think your post was very eloquent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathryn Martin View Post
    What is happening now though is that the relevance of having been afflicted with transsexualism fades and I am witnessed for who I am. What was broken is finally put together the right way.
    While I celebrate the changes that have brought you wholeness I simply cannot support the notion of transsexualism as an "affliction".

    In the words of that great philosopher Popeye "I am what I am." I was born this way, but just because I was born as part of that different minority (0.25 - 1% of the population), and by that definition different, that doesn't mean I am broken. Nor am I afflicted, sick, damaged, diseased nor any of those other things that make me a tragic figure subject to public ridicule, pity and scorn.

    I am what I am. My gender dissonance is part of what makes me what I am, and I don't consider myself so much "gender dysphoric" as much as I am "gender gifted".

    Sure, trans life is tough, but it's not always a hardship. Quite often it's an adventure and even at times it's a lot of fun to be me. That's the way it's been ever since I rejected the idea of Gender Dysphoria as being an affliction and learned to celebrate the unique life God gave me.
    Last edited by Michelle.M; 05-07-2013 at 07:46 AM.
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  9. #34
    Gold Member Marleena's Avatar
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    Lynn I did not call you anything nor did I question you on anything other than that comment about postop denial. That sounded like something a detractor or cisgendered person would say. So that's why I suggested reading up on this. I do not challenge anybody to prove they're TS and I take people at face value. I do not push people to do anything more than they need to do to deal with their GD. I don't want to derail Kathryn's thread it's a good one.

    Back to the topic...

  10. #35
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Lynn, i'm having trouble getting what you are saying
    that there is no point for a ts person to transition? when you say you believe in purpose, what do you mean?

    i look at purpose as part of our fundamental nature...how and why was I made...i actually feel i fulfilled my purpose partially through transition..i was lucky to have a good family, accomplish alot...i have a very strong and positive sense of purpose.

    ++++++

    MelissaK and Michelle.M altho my comments may seem otherwise, i totally agree with you...

    My comments are specifically about people that beleive we are broken...including kathryn's comments...i can understand why a transsexual women might view it this way..but i dont believe the concept applies

    ...in an attempt to make transition THE solution, it can be helpful to apply a paradigm of its broken so fix it...but it plays right into society's hands

    broken is a word that others use about us... there are other words that are different but similar including defective/wrong/less

    Is our situation a birth defect? if it is does that mean we are broken? and that we are fixed at some point??

    i dont buy it..The idea does not resonate with me at all and it triggers anger...and i transitioned, and i experienced all the physical and emotional changes, and i experience living freely and easily...and i just don't get it.... i do feel sometimes sad that i felt so bad for so long...i feel sad for people that had to deal with this....i especially feel bad for people that live against their nature for so long and fight and fight..often coming up with endless rationalizations....those are all simply quality of life issues that every human being faces all the time..

    Some people truly are by their nature broken, but cisgender people are simply the vast majority, and we are a tiny minority...nothing about that means broken...evil people are broken..narcissists are broken...sociopaths are broken...lawyers are broken....oops...

    I prefer to look at it this way..

    we are not broken...we do have a quality of life problem...but it has nothing to do with our worth ..it is not a defect...its a problem...we cope with it...

    Our "nature" is that we are women, ...and so we try to live our best quality of life, and for many of us that includes transition..its a great solution ...i'd say its the best solution but not the only one

    living against your nature causes distress.
    those of us that live congruent with our nature espouse the benefits, it can be a rough trade off...but its worth it to us..

    and those that dont will raise their own reasons and make their own trade offs..

    neither of us are broken...its totally wrong to say that because i transitioned i am "fixed" and because lynn hasnt she is not...

  11. #36
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    Lea’s comment it’s like being born with a cleft palate? My nephew is a terrific kid and he wasn’t born broken. He was born with genetic variation that makes life difficult. Surgery helped, but he still has speaking issues. So he’s still broken???
    The one thing I just can't escape is that I have been, and am, afflicted. Even with so many of my life-long issues with depression, social anxiety, dissociation, etc. now under control because of HRT (primarily), I still feel the mind/body disconnect. More so, in fact. Though the genetic and hormonal variations that produce this are statistically predictable, the fact that the condition puts me at such tension within myself keeps it out of the "normal" category.

    As for whether or not it is (also) a gift, in some ways I agree that it is. It is part of me and I would not wish to be a different person - certainly not male. Researchers have pointed out the incidence of relatively higher intelligence and creativity in the trans population. So it does seem that the condition can confer some benefits, too.

    'Lissa, I'm sorry, but I do not regard a cleft palate as a simple genetic variation. It can be a profound disability, depending on severity, of course. And if speech is an ongoing issue, then so is the affliction. While one can be similarly, severely afflicted by transsexualism (high intensity), my comparison was inexact. That said, though GD or the body/mind disconnect can be healed by SRS, there are many ways in which some post-ops continue to be afflicted - and I mean from within, as a symptom of the condition and not a secondary consequence. One example the inability to bear children.
    Lea

  12. #37
    Minority of One Lynnmorgan451's Avatar
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    I wasn't really saying there's no point to transition. I was jut saying we were obviously not born with female bodies and unlike other men, we desire them. Or, we were born with more feminine physical qualities and question why. I was just raising the question as to why we were made this way in the first place? It gives me the warm tinglies to wonder for what purpose was I made this way. I don't see myself as the society sees me. Like a diseased freak or something. I see us and myself as great Devine beings of understanding. We have the power to heal through understanding without biased gender based stereotypical constraint. The whole transition isn't necessarily the cure. Being ok with what you are is the cure, no matter how far into transition you feel you need to go.
    Morgan Lynn Scatterbrain

  13. #38
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    In describing myself in the past, I have used the word "broken" on more than one occasion. I neither shy away from the word, nor back away from it now.

    I do believe, though, that I have used the word "wrong" more frequently and often as a self-descriptor in the context of being transsexual. Simply stated, I was born "wrong."

    Regardless, I have spent much time, energy, and resources in "fixing" myself, and righting the wrongness of my existence. And I shall continue to spend time, energy, and resources in the future until such time that I am no longer "wrong."

    However, I see no specific reason or divine purpose in being born this way (wrong). Rather, I view being born this way as pure, random happenstance. Much in the same way my younger sister is dying from a very rare form of cancer that about only 15,000 people in the U.S. are cursed with. She didn't ask for it, and she did nothing to deserve it or put herself at increased risk for it. It just happened for no good reason or purpose whatsoever. None at all.

    I mean, to what end does that serve her? When she drops dead any day or week now, to what purpose shall my two and a half year old niece be left motherless?

    I see no specific purpose in being born wrong or broken. In such cases, I see only bad luck of the draw.

    Although true I have learned much about myself that I probably would not have but for being transsexual, I do not necessarily view that as a positive that outweighs all of the negatives. There are, after all, in at least my opinion as it applies to me, a shit-ton of negatives.

    Even more, and perhaps this is more a personal failing than anything, just simply learning to "be ok" with myself is not enough. I need more than my own personal acceptance of self will grant. I need to change my body. I need to change my internal chemistry. I need assistance from external sources to help these needs become reality. No amount of personal acceptance and just being ok with myself is going to change the fact that I have a dude body complete with a penis and testicles. No amount of personal acceptance, in and of itself, will change how the world views me. No amount of personal acceptance, in and of itself, will change the sense of wrongness I feel to my absolute inner core being.

    As such, IMO, there is no specific purpose to any of this. All there is is random circumstance. But I'm good with that, in so far as I am engaging in those things I believe necessary that will serve to improve my own personal set of circumstances in the future.

    In the meantime, I am wrong, despite how right I otherwise feel I am.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnmorgan451 View Post
    I see us and myself as great Devine beings of understanding. We have the power to heal through understanding without biased gender based stereotypical constraint. The whole transition isn't necessarily the cure. Being ok with what you are is the cure, no matter how far into transition you feel you need to go.
    If I was okay with the way I was I would not need to transition. There would be no reason to because there would be no problem. But the thing is I was NOT okay with it, nor could I ever be. What I was made me sick. Spirituality, religion, self help, therapy, drinking, praying for acceptance, marriage did not work.

    The solution to the problem is actually very simple - living as a woman instead of as a man (being honest and not lying about who I am to myself or anyone else), hormones, hair removal, and surgery if I can get there - all contribute to peace in my life. That is the solution for me.

    There is nothing that is any more or less divine about us a group then anyone else.

  15. #40
    Senior Member melissaK's Avatar
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    Fascinating thread. Still tragic. The resistance to acceptance of genetic variation in the species as nothing more than that. Maybe there's a gene that makes you want to measure yourself against what others tell you is normal . . .

    And Kathryn, Sweetie I love your opinions, but I don't see that I'm condemning any teenagers to despair. . . . I'm telling them they have a "condition" that they aren't responsible for causing, and their treatment options to feel better are: find a cultural group that accepts them, cosmetic surgery, and chemical alterations. You are telling them the same thing but it concerns me that you are telling them they are "broken" until they do it.

    Frankly, Kathryn, we are both old and conservative and grew up in a world that doesn't exist anymore, and we don't live in the present the way young people do, and we have no good and current sense of what their life and outlook is like.

    And LeaP, see how perjorative "broken" is? You have started saying you're "afflicted" instead. I'll not quibble with that word - it fits. The condition causing the affliction is a genetic variation, not a condition of brokenness, not a condition measured by an impossible standard of normalness.

    Which leads to the quote from Dr. Hyman, no comment from anyone? really? He said the DSM is built wrong and its being replaced with RDoC. THIS IS HUGE. And not a peep. Don't be like IBM ignoring Microsoft in 1985.

    And Anne, you shifted into a meaning of life discussion . . . and it was tender and footnoted by your reference to personal tragic references. And your situational ethics position in this epic semantic discussion Kathryn launched with her OP. . . is IMHO quite sensible.

    Which leads me to my favorite quote from a contemporary writer who really summarizes the mystery of life, the genetic randomness of life, randomness of experience, the possibility there's more than we can comprehend. Neil Gaiman wrote this line for his Sandman series character Death, in the series called Death:The High Cost of Living - "You get what anyone gets; You get a lifetime."
    Its not religious, but Gaimen never says who do we "get" our life from. And its not fatalism, because he places our life in our hands to do with what we are able, while we have it.
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    "Sometimes, it's even better."
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  16. #41
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    I used the word afflicted to explain, or rationalize "broken" - not to replace it. One reason I think that broken fits is that the cure is really only a patch. Rather like a repair where, if you look closely enough, you can see the details. And I don't mean the surgical scars, either.

    I've addressed variation. Both genetic and developmental (from hormones timing, pre and post-natal). Kathryn commented on the RDoC change - your comment wasn't ignored. I understand the significance, but don't see the applicability here. Better etiology does not equate to normality. Many, many genetic and developmental issues result in abnormal conditions. I understand your general point but think the dividing line in this case between normal and not is the inherent, untenable tension, given sufficient intensity. Something that requires repair is not normal. I can accept that gender variance occurs at a level of intensity (or even personal experience) that may be regarded as normal. Lynn's comments and viewpoint are close to that point of view.
    Last edited by LeaP; 05-07-2013 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Spelling
    Lea

  17. #42
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    i don't want to talk about this anymore..i'm mad at myself for getting caught up in it..

    frankly this bores me

    its hypothetical, its filled with empty semantics that serve no purpose..i'm broken, i'm not broken..tomato/tomatoe who cares..

    cisgender people don't generally understand us without alot of really hard work..they generally look down on us and marginalize us..and they do it regardless of whether we are transitioned or not...some use the word broken or they pity us...

    usually by transitioning we find that many people become much more willing to do the hard work to embrace us as is... some people from our male past cannot easily do this, especially lovers and family, which is very sad...

    ..it is what it is..all the words in China won't change it...we'll impact our own lives on a one by one basis for better or worse...broken or not..

    if it helps you to deal with the situation by calling yourself broken, i am a fan of any means neccessary to get through this...

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by anne2345 View Post
    however, i see no specific reason or divine purpose in being born this way (wrong). Rather, i view being born this way as pure, random happenstance.
    word................

  19. #44
    Member DaniG's Avatar
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    It depends on your definition of broken. We have a condition that causes damatic upheavals in our lives, and requires drastic and life-changing remedies. So, by analogy, would someone born with clubfoot be considered broken? How about a cancer patient? I agree with Kathryn's OP. I think Celeste hits the nail on the head when she points out that there's a fix needed. A fix is only needed where something is broken.

    Quote Originally Posted by melissaK View Post
    Lea’s comment it’s like being born with a cleft palate? My nephew is a terrific kid and he wasn’t born broken. He was born with genetic variation that makes life difficult. Surgery helped, but he still has speaking issues. So he’s still broken???
    This indicates your defintion of 'broken' means that the brokenness is pervasive in the person, and they can never be fixed. I think your definition is a little more extreme than others here who state things like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by STACY B View Post
    If its Broke fix it ,, If it ain't broke don't fix it ,, Some of us Need fixing ,,lol,,,
    To others, the word is highly stigmitized.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    broken is a word that others use about us... there are other words that are different but similar including defective/wrong/less

    ...evil people are broken..narcissists are broken...sociopaths are broken...lawyers are broken....oops...
    I don't mind being called broken because to me it merely means that there is physiological error in my makeup. It does not reflect on my moral character. It does not mean that I'm less of a person. It just means I have a medical problem that I have to deal with, like removing a mole or something... only a lot more intensive.

    So I think the emotionally charged nature of the word is why this thread has gotten so heated. Perhaps a different term would be better.

    Yes, to some degree we'll always be TS, but it does not mean we can't do what we need to in order to be better fulfilled and find happiness. It just means we're acknowledging this ascept of our existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaP View Post
    I regard transsexualism as an intersexed condition.
    This makes a lot of sense to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    I know I'm broken, I just don't want the cracks to show.
    I'd be thrilled to get here someday.

    Quote Originally Posted by KatieTaylorTX View Post
    I believe that those two terms, while speaking from a biological point of view, may not reflect a true definition of being TG. ... So, are we "Broken" or "Wrong" the answer lies in the hands of the people that define us...
    While I fully acknowledge your point about the pressures of society's nonacceptance, that does not account for the entire TS dilema. More prominent is the effect of gender dysphoria. If society was entirely accepting of TSs, we would still have to deal with the incongruence of our bodies and minds. Therefore, whether we are broken or not is inherent in us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle.M View Post
    That's the way it's been ever since I rejected the idea of Gender Dysphoria as being an affliction and learned to celebrate the unique life God gave me.
    Honest question. I occassionally hear people say this, and I wonder how they find it to be a gift. I'm well acquinted with the downsides. Would you would be willing to share your exeriences on the positives? I started a new thread for this topic, "The Gift of Transsexualism".

  20. #45
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    I'm going to quote the vandals, "I don't give a damn coz I am what I am, even if it's really, really bad"
    :-) lol

  21. #46
    My Ship has sailed? Barbara Ella's Avatar
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    OK, I am going back to reread all of this, because the discussions are wonderful.

    I want to take a much more simplistic approach, which I know might be unusual for me...lol

    A lot of the discussion hinges on the definition of broken. I believe for something/someone to be broken, they must have been working. I do not believe broken can be applied to something that springs into being in a certain state of shall we say, disrepair. That is not broken, it is just incomplete (not the right word here, but thinking on it).

    How many of the TS here feel that they were perfectly functioning for a time during their life? We may feel broken in spirit, or that our soul is broken by this if we feel our souls/spirit were functioning well at one time. But broken, no, we have just not been completed (wording?) because of a myriad of reasons, and we are left to our own designs to attempt to complete the work to the best we can.

    I am not broken, I just have not finished completing myself, something nature started but stopped short on.

    Barbara
    He (she) who would learn to fly one day must first learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance.
    - Friedrich Nietzche -
    I may never get to fly like the other girls, but I do so want to dance, so I continue to climb.

  22. #47
    Chickie Chickhe's Avatar
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    No... , but sometimes we are made to feel that way. Imagine for a moment that everything in the world was perfect...everyone is treated equally and with respect. People are free to be themselves and everyone is accepted. Then, nobody would feel broken, right? But, today rules are imposed on people by other people which makes you feel broken if you don't fit societies perfect mold. If it is discovered that some gene got clobbered by mistake...then maybe some people are broken, but suppose the grand plan automatically introduces variation and people are supposed to be different ...well then, maybe everyone is perfect according to plan even if they are not the same?

    ...so, are you broken if society doesn't fit you and you want to live a happy life in that society? Maybe you need to change to fit in.
    Chickie

  23. #48
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    Broken is not the right word to explain our condition. Think of it more like a Ford, GM, Toyota or Honda car that has been fitted with the wrong parts. In essences the manufacturer should put out a recall on the improperly equipped models. However, in our case the manufacturer has closed up shop and is out of business so we must find after-market equipment to replace the parts.

  24. #49
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    excellent point chi

    If society was organized in a manner that maximized each individuals human potential then I think that transgender folk would be treated quite differently. I don't think anyone here would try to argue that our society fits that description, but that is a topic for another thread I suppose. Personally I think that a western society such as ours is much too accustomed to the idea of wasting resources and human potential at the pursuit of capitalist profit.

    In short we are exceptional people who despite being placed in a hostile discriminatory environment are capable of thriving.
    "In our lives, change is unavoidable, loss is unavoidable. In the adaptability and ease with which we experience change, lies our happiness and freedom."

    "My actual gender identity emerged as I healed from the scars of childhood not because of those scars" - Kelly J

  25. #50
    ghost Anne2345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbara Ella View Post
    I am not broken, I just have not finished completing myself, something nature started but stopped short on.
    I don't know if you are broken or not, Barbara. But your perception is flawed, IMO.

    It's not that nature stopped short on transsexuals, or that it's up to us to finish completing ourselves. It's that nature completely ****ed us up the ass, gave us the wrong parts and the wrong bodies, and flung us out there to fend for ourselves.

    At least for me, there is nothing to complete that nature began but fell short on. I mean, my dude body is pretty damn ****ing complete. It is painfully, mindblowingly, cursedly complete. It is so ****ing complete that it's impossible to undo all of the damage. But that's what it comes down to - I have to undo all the crap I was born with, and attempt to replace it all with stuff I should have had from day 1 but wasn't provided.

    In other words, I am just plain wrong, as opposed to incomplete. My mind and body are incongruent. It's up to me, though, to take affirmative action and correct the wrong.

    So I believe there IS a distinction, fwiw.

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