I have a question.
If you were married to a woman prior to transition and remain married after, what happens if you change your gender marker with Social Security? Does it invalidate your marriage for tax and other legal purposes within a marriage? or do they just kind of ignore it?
The answer to this question is going to be specific to a jurisdiction. It would be best if responses were from people who know the legal situation where Arbon resides.
Rianna Humble
Moderator, transsexual Forums
I would check it out with the IRS; However, your last name did not change, and there was no
legal divorce, So I would think all is the same.
When you retire, who ever was the largest wage earner will pass on to the next spouse their
SS retirement package. But you have a long way for that to happen.
Rader
I bet it does invalidate your legal marriage status with the IRS because of the DOMA. Hopefully the supreme court does the right thing. Your marriage's legal status within your state will be based on their laws. You'll need to check with attorneys, most likely.
Mostly I am asking in regards to the US Federal government . At the state level in Idaho it seems to be a very gray area but don't think changing gender with SSA would affect how the state sees itOriginally Posted by Rianna Humble
At the federal level... Nothing will change. They will allow your sex change, but you're still "Joe" as far as federal law and federal income tax.
They go by your social ... Not your name. Your tax status will remain the same as it was before you transitioned.
State laws will vary depending on your state of residence.
In my case I married after transition .. I am still steven as far as the Feds go so they don't recognize my marriage as valid. I have to file my taxes separately from my husband. Joint returns are not allowed for same sex couples ( that's how the fed sees us).
Since the fed does not recognize your same sex marriage as far as federal law and income taxes.. You are not in violation of DOMA... Should one partner decide to transition.
Last edited by kellycan27; 05-22-2013 at 02:59 PM.
Thanks Kelly thats what I wanted to know.
Anyone having serious issues concerning their status; marital, economic or otherwise, should not rely on this site for legal advice. There are two separate issues arising under DOMA.
1. For any federal benefit the US government does not recognize same sex marriages;
and
2. States "shall not be required" to recognize same sex marriages that arise in states that permit it.
The current Supreme Court cases are under review under the Fourteenth Amendment (Equal Protection Clause) and Article 4, Section 1 which deals with states recognizing the laws of other states. Note: DOMA states states "shall not be required" which does not prohibit them from recognizing legal same sex marriages arising in other states.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out when the Court renders its decision in the fall.
Nope! Federal law and income tax are uniform. It's the state level where taxes can be a real nightmare for same sex married couples. Arbon's marriage would still be within the definition of DOMA and her state and federal tax filing status would not change after transition.
Another question - is there any benefit in changing your gender with with social security (not talking about the name, but the gender)?
I am not in the legal profession but these are separate issues. In the states I am familiar with, changing your sex does not invalidate your marriage, regardless of no same sex marriage laws. That marriage was initiated when you were a man and a woman and is grandfathered in. Now, if you get divorced and want to remarry, then you would be prevented in cases where there is a same sex marriage ban. Thankfully, Maine has changed their laws as has most of New England so that is not a problem here.
The National Center for Transgender Equality has provided this fact sheet for trans people."Under state marriage laws, the validity of a marriage is determined at the time of marriage. If you were legally an opposite-sex couple when you married, your marital status cannot be invalidated by subsequent events. For the same reason, the federal Defense of Marriage Act does not prohibit federal recognition of married couples in this situation. You should be able to file jointly as a married couple, and are not required to count a spouse’s employer-provided health benefits as taxable income."
http://transequality.org/Resources/I...sheet_2012.pdf
Sally
NO.. As it stands now your gender change is of no consequence to the SSA. As far as they are concerned... nothing has or will change. The only benefit would be personal.
No they are not. They do not apply at all where I live, nor where members such as Noeleena or Melodie Moore live either.Nope! Federal law and income tax are uniform.
Last edited by Rianna Humble; 05-22-2013 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Fix quoting
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
Granted, but the OP is asking in regards to "US Federal" law as clearly stated in post #5.
As long as DOMA is the law:
Why even tell SSA that you have changed sex? Why tell anyone at he Federal level? The feds don't issue birth certificates (usually) and if you change jobs, filling out the W-4 doesn't require a statement regarding sex. The only reason I can see changing your SSA status is for you own SELF identity - and your SS card doesn't identify your sex.Section 3. Definition of marriage
In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the word 'marriage' means only a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife, and the word 'spouse' refers only to a person of the opposite sex who is a husband or a wife.
When writing the next chapter in your life, start with a pencil and eraser - my first page as Miki is full of eraser marks.
So why were you criticising post number 2.
At least when I grew up, 2 came before 5
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
I wasn't critisizing post two... I was correcting. As a matter of fact I agree with the part that states that the most helpful answers would be posted by people who live where the OP lives... In this case the US. I was assuming. ( appearenty correctly as evidenced by posts 5 and 7) that she was referring to United States of America "Federal" tax law. At any rate .. By now it should be abundantly clear that the OP was in fact talking about US federal law... to persist arguing with you would be pointless.
Peace
and thanks for the info Kelly, I read on Jordie's thread how she changed her gender with SSA and of course I immediately think its something I should do!
But it is pretty clear there is no real need for me to do that.
It would only be symbolic, but it's gratifying to see your female name on your social security card. Look at it this way... There's no reason not to do it if you want to.
I was told that it is not too hard to change the SS account to show your new name (once there is a legal name change) but they did not allow a change in gender. It used to cause a problem as they would send inquiries out because the info sent by the employer would say one gender and they would have info on the other gender and problems started. I hear it is now not the case, they still do not change the gender but they do not act on it when other info is sent in.
That said it could have changed recently.
All I ever wanted was to be a girl. Is that really asking too much?
I have my female name on it.I just did not change the gender with them.
The Fed does not recognize your gender change, but will allow for it. You are right in that they will let it slide. It's your tax ID (social security number) that they go by and is really all that they are interested in.
What kelly is saying is that to social security, you are just a number.
As far as invalidating a marriage, they are not likely to make that big a stink about it.
You ever try to d anything thru the GOVT? So many headaches. You think THEY are gonna set aside time to invalidate your marriage? Hell no, that would mean they would have to work. You know that ain't happenin.
It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.
At the federal level... Invalidating a marriage because one party transitioned... Would mean that in order to do that they would have to recognize the gender change to begin with and that would open up a tremendous can of worms and put an end to DOMA.
Last edited by kellycan27; 05-23-2013 at 03:24 PM.
I wonder why anyone would say that. When I changed my name on my SSA account I showed them my name change order (all that was needed for a name change) and some sort of doctor's letter stating that you have had appropriate, irreversible medical procedures to undergo a gender change. HRT qualifies; a post-GRS affidavit does as well.
That's correct.
They do.
I don't know if it's accurate to say that the feds don't recognize gender change, but more like they just don't have a dog in the fight. Name change, gender change, birth and death records, marriages - these are all vital statistics and are matters of the individual states, not the federal government. Validating or invalidating a marriage would also be a state issue.
Exactly why the Supreme Court is weighing in on DOMA now. Critics have correctly argued that since states have this authority the feds have no business in marriage issues.
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.
Posting Permissions
