What really is crossdressing?

[Ezekiel]

Well, I have been off for some time, since I had to emigrate seeking opportunities for a job, and it seems I will be lucky enough to get my hands on one, so I wont be arround for much again. But lets get on the subject:

All the while I've had some time to think about my situation, to find out what truly is crossdressing, and what really happens with me, and those that fall in this condition.

It seems I could atleast figure out that in my case, crossdressing is just the way to get the image I want, since it has been never a sexual thing for me nor I identify as a woman. Although there is some thrill in it, its really all about the looks. It doesn't seem to stop there for me though, because I probably could go further with some body modifications. However, Ive come to the conclusion, that its just really about the appearance. I'm not okay with the way I look now, to the point of suffering sometimes, to the point of total rejection other times, but it does not provide me of femenine sense nor a sexual aspect. I'm all about extreme androgynous looks. Call me vain or superficial if you want, but that's what it is for me.

So after putting much examination on the issue, I ran into the next situation:

Lets put ourselves in a world where there is no female or male clothing, all people dress the same and there is no gender codes, no gender roles, everybody is exactly the same with no difference.

And now, lets suppose crossdressing is something you are born with, as many have stated here that they began very early and that they had feelings, some kind of predisposition from very young towards this subject, to things they call "femenine". Good, now include every kind of crossdresser, be it sexually driven or identity driven, and put them into this world, this situation where everybody uses the same clothes, theres no gender roles and all have equality in every aspect.

The question then is: What would happen with crossdressers? Would they still exist? If so, how would they express their status in this neutral world? Because obviousbly, crossdressing would not be possible in this case.

Would this also apply to transgendered people? transsexuals? What would really happen here? Is it really all biological?

If it is biological, transsexuals and transgenders would be detected by their behavior, as it would be similar to that of genetic females, and of course the body issues they have. Crossdressers on the other hand?

If it is not biological in any sense, then females behavior would vary as much as males behavior and concepts such as TS/TG/CD would simply be non-existant, or, overlooked as they would be part of the many personality types there would be and categorized differently.

I know that for me, clothing would not be a issue anymore, as we would all use the same clothing. And when I say the same I say clothes identical in looks.

Now its your turn, people. Voice your opinions.

[Karren H]

If everyone dressed the same.... I'd find a new planet.... and there would technically be no crossdressers.... only cross gender actors....

[Kate Simmons]

In a perfect world this would no doubt be the case my friend but this world is anything but perfect. This one is designed for us to learn by experiencing feelings and emotions in the illusion of linear time. It seems we need motivation for pursuing these feelings but being male or female (or anything else) is not just limited to the physical and that adds another whole dimension to things all together.This is where true wisdom and understanding comes in my friend.

[Kandy Barr]

Well now,%$&@-(-&%+&&? <Cd)=me. Whew, I was really confused there for a minute.

[Alice Torn]

Well I'll be switched! Ah never thought of it that way before! In a prison camp, or concentration camp, that may well be true, that males and females would be given the same clothes. I never did like unisex, though. Never did like seeing women in men's clothes. maybe that is why i wear womens clothes!

[ReineD]

Ive come to the conclusion, that its just really about the appearance. I'm not okay with the way I look now, to the point of suffering sometimes, to the point of total rejection other times, but it does not provide me of femenine sense nor a sexual aspect. I'm all about extreme androgynous looks. Call me vain or superficial if you want, but that's what it is for me.

Maybe I shouldn't suggest something other than Gender Dysphoria (GD) in a crossdresser forum where there are some people who do have GD, but if it is only about looks for you, have you looked into Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD)? You can look it up online. I'd stick to the medical sites. BDDs are people who do not like the way they look, or an aspect of how they look, and this can be quite debilitating. I think you'd have to talk to an expert though to ask if BDD can have cross-gender aspects, without it being Gender Dysphoria (feeling as if a male body is wrong for you).

As to what I think would happen if both men and women on this planet looked the same, dressed the same, smelled the same, and adorned themselves in exactly the same way or not at all?

I don't think that we'd be here.

The human species propagates itself because there are two sexes. Two sexes bring with them differing sexual characteristics. So, if we lived in a perfectly climatized environment with no need for protective clothing, and if we had no sense of aesthetics that drove us to differentiate ourselves through adornment, if we all had the same length hair, etc, in my opinion CDers would want to place on their bodies, facsimiles of the things that differenciated females from males, namely the breasts. And they'd probably tuck too. Transsexuals would want to have the real breasts and have their penises removed. People who are in between might want real breasts, but they'd want to tuck.

[Annette Todd]

...in the year 2525. If man is still alive. I live for today and for me and in the here and now. Hypothetical questions are unrealistic. This kind of thing exists in communist China. I don't plan to move there.

[ReineD]

LOL. Sorry, Annette, but why bother responding to this post?

[NathalieX66]

Crossdressing is nothing but a word created by the status quo to define crossing gender binaries.


That's about all I can say.

[beatriz]

hello all of you, i believe crossdressing, if you really feel it inside you , is something you like to be , and you like to do, dont have to explain nothing to anyone, is your world and is your happiness very deep in your soul..
thank you for this forum, i live in Mexico, and i am happy to be accepted here..

[Ressie]

If crossdressing didn't exist I would have to find other ways to express feminine traits. hmmm...

[Ezekiel]

...in the year 2525. If man is still alive. I live for today and for me and in the here and now. Hypothetical questions are unrealistic. This kind of thing exists in communist China. I don't plan to move there

I think you missed my point here. What I am trying to say is that it might just be about the clothes, looks and gender roles that environmentally affected our development, rather than something biologically ingrained in us. What I'm trying to say, is that is something developed in life, rather than being born with it as many suggested in this forum. Since everybody would use the same clothes, the crossdressers would not be arround, neither their activity of dressing nor the personality type.

All I mean is that this femenine side many claim to have, this gender duality, is really all just society affecting the individual, so it is all is purely environmentally developed. I don't believe male and female minds to be any different.

Also, hypothetical questions are not unrealistic, its these kind of questions that helps oneself figure out things that in any other way would not be possible to resolve.

Maybe I shouldn't suggest something other than Gender Dysphoria (GD) in a crossdresser forum where there are some people who do have GD, but if it is only about looks for you, have you looked into Body Dysmorphic Disorder (BDD)? You can look it up online. I'd stick to the medical sites. BDDs are people who do not like the way they look, or an aspect of how they look, and this can be quite debilitating. I think you'd have to talk to an expert though to ask if BDD can have cross-gender aspects, without it being Gender Dysphoria (feeling as if a male body is wrong for you).

Well Reine, never thought of this before, thats for sure. I looked it up and it seems to be some kind of obsessive compulsion that really escapes your control, and I know I have OCD, I was diagnosed with it years ago. But who knows, it might be, it might not, all I know for now is that for me its just really about the looks, and I don't think its biological.

[NicoleScott]

Lets put ourselves in a world where there is no female or male clothing, all people dress the same and there is no gender codes, no gender roles, everybody is exactly the same with no difference.

I would invent pantyhose and high heels, and get rich.

[Beverley Sims]

I would find some other gratification I am sure.

[ReineD]

Well Reine, never thought of this before, thats for sure. I looked it up and it seems to be some kind of obsessive compulsion that really escapes your control, and I know I have OCD, I was diagnosed with it years ago. But who knows, it might be, it might not, all I know for now is that for me its just really about the looks, and I don't think its biological.

I guess I don't need to tell you that it is worth investigating with a professional, even if it seems manageable right now. It might not stay that way. The trick is to find a good professional who is familiar with both gender issues and other things like OCD and BDD. I know that good gender therapists do try to stabilize other issues before determining that what's left are the gender issues. And if it ends up being that you do have GD (if you are transsexual), then it will be a matter of figuring out the best way to handle it. There are different levels of GD.

But, whether it was present since birth or it is something that developed later on but is a part of you now doesn't matter. You still need to figure out what is the best course to take so that you can lead a happy, satisfying life.

I wish you all the best along your journey. But I do think it will be more meaningful if you seek professional help than try to get answers from people in an internet forum who cannot get into your background like a knowledgeable therapist can, or people who can only look at what's going on a certain way, which is usually what's going on with themselves.

[Ezekiel]

I just wished to discuss this hypothesis out of curiosity, mainly to get various views on it, all the while getting more things clear myself. Given most replies to this thread are not very serious, I guess I failed.

Atleast Reine, you did write some useful input for me, and I thank you for the attention. Sure I plan on starting therapy right when I finally stabilize my current economic situation, because there are days when I feel like shooting myself. OCD can get really bad, specially when you have many other external problems to resolve, and throwing all this gender stuff into the mix makes it worse.

[ReineD]

Ezekiel ... a hint: if you want opinions on a serious question, don't also add a fun, "what if" question in the same post. The "what ifs" (I think) are a big favorite around here.

[Lucy_Bella]

. Sure I plan on starting therapy right when I finally stabilize my current economic situation, because there are days when I feel like shooting myself. OCD can get really bad, specially when you have many other external problems to resolve, and throwing all this gender stuff into the mix makes it worse.

The issue..." OCD ". Is common for people who may have "GID" ( gender identity disorder) .. OCD is manifested itself from anger and frustrations from being trapped in the wrong body.. So in many cders it's not really the act of cross-dressing that relieves the obsessive behavior ,it's the need to express the gender you feel you should have been it's not " all about the clothes" for GID people..

[Ezekiel]

The issue..." OCD ". Is common for people who may have "GID" ( gender identity disorder) .. OCD is manifested itself from anger and frustrations from being trapped in the wrong body.. So in many cders it's not really the act of cross-dressing that relieves the obsessive behavior ,it's the need to express the gender you feel you should have been it's not " all about the clothes" for GID people..

This is starting to get off topic I guess, but I had to answer to clear out something. I do not know if my OCD is related to this issue, but when I was diagnosed it I did never mention my crossdressing.

While I do have some strong dysphoric attitudes with parts of my body or the way I look, I have never identified myself as female. Transsexuals, from what I've seen and for whatever reason it may be, always identify as female, no matter what. Sure I might be "Transgender" regarding body image, but I consider myself a male and being regarded as "he" will never upset me. Transsexuals on the contrary, would always go for "she" and do not tolerate being approached as "he".

My identity as a male is okay, what doesn't though, seems to be my body, thats why I think its all image to the extreme for me. I am probably a middle term in the TG spectrum or something else I have yet to discover, but from what I know about Transsexuality, I can say I am not one.

[Lorileah]

NB-for the purpose of this thread Transsexual is referring to Male to Female. I am sure the respondents did not mean to dismiss the FtM people's feelings. Remember that there are females who have GD also. Thanks

[ReineD]

While I do have some strong dysphoric attitudes with parts of my body or the way I look, I have never identified myself as female. Transsexuals, from what I've seen and for whatever reason it may be, always identify as female, no matter what. Sure I might be "Transgender" regarding body image, but I consider myself a male and being regarded as "he" will never upset me. Transsexuals on the contrary, would always go for "she" and do not tolerate being approached as "he".

I still think you need to sort through the OCD and/or gender issues with a pro, but to answer your questions about being TS, yes TSs know that they are women. Especially TSs your age who are 22. This might not have been the case for the baby boomers born during the 1940s and 1950s who were socialized to staunchly reject any feminine tendencies. It took some of them longer to figure it out. Still, there were TSs born in those years who knew that they were women. This is why I was saying earlier that there are different levels of GD.

Transitioned transsexuals will tell you that they view their male body parts as gross birth defects. When you think of it, this is what "transsexual" means. It is the need to cross over "trans" to a body with different primary (genitalia) sexual characterics and secondary (breasts, smooth skin, less muscle mass, etc) sexual characteristics.

But most importantly, there is a deep inability to relate to friends who are male. It would be as if you don't speak their language.

At the same time, a lot of people who identify as (take your pick: crossdresser, transgender, bigender, genderqueer, etc) prefer their bodies to look feminine too, but only to a degree. My SO would love nothing more than to have real breasts than can be there when she is herself, and disappear when he is in guy mode. But, this is not realistic, so my SO wears breast forms. He knows that he would be unhappy at work walking around with breasts. Like I said, there are different degrees of GD and since this is a highly individual thing with lots of variables, someone else's experience will not fit you.

Are you in school by any chance? Can you avail yourself of the school's Health Services if you are reluctant or do not have the means to find a therapist to talk to?

Are you also reluctant to talk to your parents about this if you are still on their health insurance? I'm not sure about the rules, but I think that as an adult you have the right to seek help without divulging any of the details to your parents. You can simply tell them that you have things to work out and you are not ready to tell them yet. It's your right. Gosh, colleges don't even mail the grades to the parents ... even though a lot of them pay for college! lol

[Annette Todd]

LOL. Sorry, Annette, but why bother responding to this post?

Sorry, I just couldn't control the compulsion to say something. I was a bad cd.

[Lucy_Bella]

.

My identity as a male is okay, what doesn't though, seems to be my body, thats why I think its all image to the extreme for me. I am probably a middle term in the TG spectrum or something else I have yet to discover, but from what I know about Transsexuality, I can say I am not one.

Just to answer Ezekiel I will offer messaging if any other question are needed feel free so I do not high jack the O.P.. thread.... GID doesn't mean in any way of wanting to be a certain sex 100 percent of the time as Reine made references to about her S.O. which was a great example.. People with GID can want/desire feminine/male body features in appearance ..This doesn't mean they want to become that full time and are happy with the gender they were born as.. This is where the OCD acts out due do to the frustration ( if you will) of wanting the breast for the appearance but also being aware of the cost ..You want them to magically appear or disappear this doesn't have to be specific to breast only it can be other parts of the body..

[Ressie]

I've thought about similar scenarios. I'm sure there have always been CDs and TS in other cultures throughout history. But the difference between male and female clothing didn't seem so obvious as it is in modern western culture. Ancient tribes or even cave dwellers are what I'm thinking of, but I'm no anthropologist. I've just wondered how gender issues like this were handled in other cultures. i.e. some Aborigine tribes considered lying the worst sin and liars were banished from the tribe.

[CherylFlint]

What really is crossdressing for me is to be accepted by strangers as a woman.