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Thread: Am I being intolerant?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Amanda M's Avatar
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    Am I being intolerant?

    I do like to browse the photo gallery, and appreciate the effort the people put in to make themselves look as good as possible.

    However, recently, I seem to be seeing a lot more of the body hair/facial hair could not be bothered types.

    Now, I am NOT criticizing those who are shall we say learning their presentation - just as I am - because we all need help, but please guys, spare us the beard shadow and bald heads unless of course you have tried and simply cannot deal with it!

    At least make the effort to give womanhood its place.
    Last edited by Amanda M; 06-28-2013 at 09:31 AM. Reason: lousy spelling
    If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

  2. #2
    Silver Member BRANDYJ's Avatar
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    I'm not sure "intolerant is the right word. Maybe, like me, there are just some looks and manner of presentation I just don't care to see. Like the bald heads, facial hair as you mentioned. Some of us that fit under the umbrella of "crossdressing" just do not appeal to me and I don't like or want to see.
    We all have our likes and dislikes and our limits as to what we think is acceptable.

  3. #3
    Gold Member ~Joanne~'s Avatar
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    For some, it's strictly about the clothes more than presenting as a woman, hence the lack of shaving, wig, and makeup. I personally don't like the look myself but hey, whatever makes a sister happy is fine in my book. We each walk our own paths and who are we to say what is right or wrong on this journey?
    Flip Flops were made for Beaches & Bath Houses, We have neither in 2017. Lose the flip flops!

  4. #4
    Woman in Progress Aly Cat's Avatar
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    You also have to remember that a majority of ladies here dont have accepting wives and their SOs like them having a certain...manliness? So for some, shaving and smooth skin isnt an option. We still like to dress though and love to show off outfits and whatnot, but sadly, we cant go as far as we want to. Also, others have skin conditions which cause them to not be able to get closer than a shadow without breaking out, despite all the advice as to how to avoid severe razor burn.

    I personally fall into the spousal category. My wife hates it when i shave clean on my face. She says i look like a little boy and she doesnt like the look. She says its fine with her if i want to shave the chest down to the crotch, but you dont see that part so it makes no difference to the viewer of pictures. Also, not all of us can have wigs to cover up manly hsircuts. I swear, if my wife ever found a wig...shed be asking me to sign papers. Its bad enough that i dress to her.
    I think that you might just not be taking all aspects of others lives into consideration. We love to contribute, but at the same time, were not as fortunate as others here to be able to express ourselves freely.

  5. #5
    Life is for having fun. suzy1's Avatar
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    I think it’s about freedom of choice and the rules of the forum. We are a diverse lot here and one member’s tastes in presentation are not always like another’s.

    So you are being a little intolerant I think.

    I hope its O.K. to say that Amanda.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Laura912's Avatar
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    It seems that Eva and Joanne have summarized the situation....we work within the parameters that we must. There are threads that I do not care for so, as Lori said, do not read them. Skip photos you do not like. That way we all can continue to help one another.

  7. #7
    Woman in Progress Aly Cat's Avatar
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    Lol think of it like facebook. If you dont want to see what your friend ate for lunch and dont care, dont look at his/her post. People do that all the time. The reason they do it is because they know that there are other food lovers out there that when they see that special meal, they are gonna go oooohhhhhhh....that looks soooo good! They are relating to a particular crowd. Everyone is different and has different tastes and views on things. That diversity is what makes this whole site so unique and wonderful.

  8. #8
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    I've seen gals come in at the CD/TG themed weekend at the LGBT resort I go to with bulging muscles, beard shadow and say in a longshoreman's voice: "Hi, I'm Lisa." Okay Lisa whatever floats your boat, I'm cool with it, just not my personal thing. I figure if these gals have the gonads to go out in public like that, more power to 'em. Not that I feel like I am a femme fatale but I do have my own personal "standards of excellence" that I adhere to. Basically I'm either Rich or Ericka, not a mixture.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

  9. #9
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Yes, I believe u r, Amanda! It's one thing to think critical, judgmental thots. We ALL do. But, it may be over the top to post them. Think: "Folks that live in glass houses."

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Joanne~ View Post
    For some, it's strictly about the clothes more than presenting as a woman, hence the lack of shaving, wig, and makeup. I personally don't like the look myself but hey, whatever makes a sister happy is fine in my book. We each walk our own paths and who are we to say what is right or wrong on this journey?
    Agreed!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Princess Grandpa's Avatar
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    A couple of weeks ago, when I accepted this about myself, I had no intention of shaving my beard. My face hasn't been completely shaven in 25 years or so. My amazingly supportive wife loves my chest hair. When we discussed what we were going to do and what we weren't going to do some things were just taken off the table. As it turns out the beard did go. (She's having a blast applying the make up. Should she get bored with that odds are the beard will grow back.

    Others have more important reasons to not go all the way in their presentation. Maybe it's nothing more than its only the clothes for these girls, the make up and the hair removal may not be their thing. While I feel amazing with my nails painted, the face make up had very little effect. We all want different things.

    Please do not think I'm attacking you in any way. I'm not. I understand your point and why you might feel as you do. I would much rather view pictures of those of you that can really pull this off, rather than pictures of guys like me that just look stupid. I'm never going to be passable. If with practice I learn proper mannerisms and Julie learns to do magic with the make up, I'm going to be just as obviously a man wearing a dress whether I remove all that hair or not.

    I'm just a dude who needs to feel pretty even though he never can be. We are a community crying for acceptance. We need to do a better job of accepting ourselves and each other before there is a chance they *points at society* will accept us.
    A person should wear what he likes to. And not just what other folks say. A person should be who she likes to. A person's a person that way!
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  11. #11
    Just a touch of class Lynn Marie's Avatar
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    I'm also not interested in pictures of obvious guys in women's clothes. I never took any pictures until I could present a complete package. I'm like that. I avoid the photo gallery here.

  12. #12
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    Amanda,
    Probably intolerant is not correct.
    The cultural cringe I think is closer.
    Those posting here have the freedom to express themselves and we all do that at different levels.
    It is a bit like saying that those transitioning have a different level of presentation to us.
    They do and we all do.
    Some are exhibitionists and we soon recognize them, others are trying hard and they have to start somewhere with their experimentation.
    We may be getting a few hirsute guys in dresses at the moment but next you know they have improved their presentation and we get all the blondes in long wigs....
    A bit like fashion really.
    Yes we have to weigh up those that are genuinely trying against those that are rowing some political boat or other.

    I like women dressed provocatively, even scantily dressed, but butt naked many can be very unattractive.

    Just reading other views posted, Rita, Princess Grandpa has explained men in a dress nicely.
    It is how we were brought up I think.
    Last edited by Beverley Sims; 06-28-2013 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Last Paragraph.
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amanda M View Post
    Am I being intolerant?

    <snip>

    At least make the effort to give womanhood its place.
    I think it's more a lack of imagination than intolerance.

    Not everyone here wants to be seen as trying to look like a woman, or considers himself a "girl". Many of us here don't see ourselves as "women" and have no interest in pretending to be, we just want some of the (to us) fun stuff that women get to have. It isn't that we are too lazy to "make the effort," it's that looking like a woman isn't our goal, any more than Picasso was "trying to paint like Rembrandt. But a lot of people here don't see it, because it doesn't fit their preconceptions.

    I think there's also a certain intolerance, too.

    People here, like everywhere, have been trained from birth that a man who can be accused of being "girly" is a repulsive abomination. (M2F) CDers who don't look "womanly" enough trigger this hatred. It's actually worse among CDers, because I don't think there's a (M2F) CDer who doesn't have this fear that he, too, is in reality "nothing but a man in a dress," and we non-womanly CDers remind them of that.

  14. #14
    CamilleLeon's SO Shananigans's Avatar
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    Haters gonna hate. I was at the pool and saw someone's Barbara Bush. I immediately was thinking, "Oh Lawd...could you clean that mess up before you strap on a bikini?" I was sort of hoping she wouldn't get in the hot tub...pubes in the pool.

    But, then, I realized, "Why the heck am I so bothered by this woman's crotch? She didn't shave, but it doesn't mean she hasn't bathed in 10 years..."

    I know the reason why it makes me mad though...my OWN insecurities. Fact of the matter is that I spend an absurd amount of time de-furring myself. I had spent an hour with a razor and tweezers before I jumped in that pool...and, when I did it felt like my skin was literally on fire. So, who the heck is this woman that is secure enough in her own skin to not do Anything...after I busted my butt for an hour and endured chlorine Hell? How dare she!

    It's kind of sad, but it is what it is. You just have to recognize that you're kind of a hater...but, most people are haters in some shape, form, or fashion. I'm one...you're one...she's one...he's one...let it unite us.
    "Today a young man [...] realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration...that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively...there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the Weather.”-Bill Hicks
    “What freedom men and women could have, were they not constantly tricked and trapped and enslaved and tortured by their sexuality! The only drawback in that freedom is that without it one would not be a human. One would be a monster.” East of Eden by Steinbeck

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Grandpa View Post
    I'm just a dude who needs to feel pretty even though he never can be.
    Why must we accept this "can never be"?

    I've known plenty of women who I find very attractive even though they don't at all fit the society-given standards of "beauty." Why can't we broaden our minds to appreciate Princess Grandpa's way of being pretty? Or our own ways of being pretty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Grandpa View Post
    We are a community crying for acceptance. We need to do a better job of accepting ourselves and each other before there is a chance they *points at society* will accept us.
    Agreed.

    BTW, the "they will accept us" reminds me of this:

    Dear Miss Manners:
    If you had a single piece of advice to offer someone who wants to break into society, what would it be?
    Dear Gentle Reader:
    Don't bother.

  16. #16
    Aspiring Member Stevie's Avatar
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    I like to browse too but I try not to be opinionated. It's hard when your mind has been trained to think one way and you feel another. I find it easier to focus on things I like and overlook the rest. You have to feel good about yourself to be able to show the world how you look no matter how different it is. Me personally I do not like body hair and constantly find ways to get rid of it with out changing my manly features.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzy1 View Post
    So you are being a little intolerant I think.
    I don't believe someone giving their opinion warrants calling them "intolerant".

  18. #18
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    To paraphrase a song from AvenueQ...Everyone's a little bit in (intolerant) its true. Last week, for me, it was two TGs who looked like hookers. Not that they looked bad, just that the skirts were too short and the heels too high and the tops too tight. It was the look they wanted I guess but it was not the look for the location. Having only shopped Walmart a few times I don't think there is a correct look for the place ( was going to say as long as you are covered but I have seen the website)
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  19. #19
    Silver Member Majella St Gerard's Avatar
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    Intolerance

    Intolerant? just a bit. The forum is called crossdressers.com is it not. and that includes many types of CDs I assume not just the kind that wants to pass and appear as a woman. I do not want to be a woman and I do not want to present myself as a woman. I am a man and I like being a man. I have no desire to be a woman. I just like to dress up in womens clothes. I am in touch with my feminine side. Most of the time I dress in a mix of male and female, sometimes full female clothes, either way I never wear a wig and always present as a male, a feminine male but a male. Sorry if my bald head offends some people. That is the way I feel comfortable. But there are some gurls out there living in denial about the way they look, just because you dress to the nines and have a nice wig and too much make-up, does not mean you "PASS", "BLEND" or whatever. Some people should raise their standards and get a mirror. I really like this site, it's much better than the others I've been to. I just hope there is room for all of us gurls, no matter how we choose to present ourselves. Sorry if this sounds a little defensive but I get tired of people telling me how to crossdress.
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  20. #20
    CamilleLeon's SO Shananigans's Avatar
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    I started thinking about what Eva was saying, and I really have to say that a lot of people here probably don't have SOs that want them to shave. Or, maybe they just don't want to "rock the boat" or be too pushy with their SO...pick and choose your battles sort of thing.

    When my SO first started dressing I thought it was very strange for him to want to shave off all of his hair. It took me a few weeks, but I finally realized that it made sense to shave...and, I felt like a jerk for making such a fuss about it...so, I helped him in his hair removal adventures. But, some SOs just are NOT comfortable with it PERIOD...so, that's probably why some people are a little bushier than others. Also, my SO enjoys being hair-free, but he doesn't like taking the time. Shaving every day is just way too tedious for him. He will continuously complain about being a man with body hair and I'm just like, "Uhhhh hello? I literally shave and tweeze every single day! I'm not some hairless mutant." Too much work for him lol. Now, I doubt he would ever take pics while being hairy, but I encourage his hate of hair removal to not stand in the way of dressing how he wants. Mainly, because he'll go a while without dressing up, get sad about "never dressing up"...and, then I am just like, "Well, it is a lot of work to look really good, so I don't know what to tell you." I want the George Jetson method of getting ready in the morning, but it doesn't work like that. So, he's sometimes my prickly girlfriend and I'm okay with that...I understand how it makes him feel unfeminine though, but a little hair shouldn't hold people back. I mean, it especially shouldn't hold you back from just putting on something you like at the end if the day. And, a lot of people here like to share their new outfits with other people, because they don't really get a chance to show anyone else...so, they just take a pic and put it up.

    I see where you are coming from and I see where hairier people are coming from. Maybe the SO doesn't like it...maybe they're a lazy CD...maybe they just want to show off an outfit. Hair happens sometimes. And, believe me, my SO hasn't come to terms with the fact that his hair isn't going to just magically stop growing, so I bet other people are in that boat. And, when he talks about laser hair removal, I just laugh...and laugh...and laugh. If anyone is getting their hair removed, it's me...I've totally earned having this crap removed. So, you could be the CD with an accepting SO, who is a little lazy, and fantasizes about laser hair removal...and, then, your SO tells you to stop being a whinny little brat and go use a razor like every other poor person. And, that takes me back to the getting mad at hairy people that are comfortable in their hairiness...when you have to put sooooo much work into it, you don't want to see people skirting around the work that you have to do. So, laser therapy and my SO? I'm such a hater...I just hand him some shaving cream and tell him I'll see him in an hour. It's tough love.

    But, he's been hairy for a lot of his life, so he's less bothered by a week or so of growth. That's relatively hair free for him. If I go a week without shaving...well, I can't even remember when I last did that. So, the people who are sort of hairy are probably just on better terms with their hair than people who go 12 hours without shaving their armpits and start getting paranoid. (yeah, I'm that person...I could get a chill while I'm shaving, feel hair prickles, and continue on shaving relentlessly...it's terrible in the winter). So, really, is it better to hate the body hair or just accept it as a fact of life? And, don't you go telling me that there's a happy middle ground...no!...that is impossible and I refuse to listen to your reason
    "Today a young man [...] realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration...that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively...there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the Weather.”-Bill Hicks
    “What freedom men and women could have, were they not constantly tricked and trapped and enslaved and tortured by their sexuality! The only drawback in that freedom is that without it one would not be a human. One would be a monster.” East of Eden by Steinbeck

  21. #21
    ADMINISTRATOR Sandra's Avatar
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    I suggest that you all read this

    http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/..._content...and then take note of the quoted piece below.

    Ridiculing members/non-members, or the manner in which they express themselves. This includes any complaint about the way females, males, transgendered, or any other cross-section of the membership dress
    Thread closed
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