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Thread: CD'ers and LGBT

  1. #1
    Fearlessly Independent RebeccaLynne's Avatar
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    CD'ers and LGBT

    Greenie's thread entitled "Pride" got me thinking about where we are, and where we're headed, regarding general acceptance of crossdressing.

    Are we on the outside looking in? I'd really like to know where we stand in the eyes of the "I'm Out, Loud and Proud" movement... they're lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered... for the most part, they're not crossdressers. And I really wonder if we would be welcomed and supported by them. Do they even want to include us under the "transgender" umbrella if we're not considering transitioning?

    I'm a guy that likes to express his femininity by dressing as a woman. That's as far as it goes for me. It makes me happy. I believe there's nothing wrong with doing so. I'd like to join forces with the LGBT community, as there's strength in numbers, and they've made tremendous strides in gaining acceptance.

    I'd like to expand their horizons, bolster their influence, and contribute to their voter base... all by adding two letters... LGBTCD ...

    Is that really so hard?

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Member sheilagirl's Avatar
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    I'm right with you all the way up to the last paragraph, Rebecca. For me, I'm not looking to expand anyone's horizons or contribute to their voter base. I simply try to positively effect those that I come into contact with,whoever they may be. Being able to move about freely, without the fear of intimidation or threats is about as deep as I go on any grand scheme of acceptance. Great question though. Thanks.

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    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    Since CD is a part of the TG spectrum I've never had a doubt that I was part of the overall group. Together we are a strong voice. Our enemies would love it if we split into our individual groups and fought with each other.
    Eryn
    "These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
    "She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
    "Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]

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    Aspiring Member Leona's Avatar
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    I'm of the very strong opinion that the T part of LGBT has been thrown under the bus too many times, it's time for us to make our own stand.

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    we run the risk of getting bogged down in the terminology again. transgender is a much broader umbrella than just the transsexual population that is contemplating or engaged in transitioning. But I can tell you that from the people I know in the LGBT movement, we are welcome and embraced. sure, not by every gay or lesbian person, but then we aren't embraced by every straight person either...as a group we get along fine and hardly need to spit hairs by suggesting that CD is something different from TG

  6. #6
    Gold Member Alice Torn's Avatar
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    America, and the world, are so divided, and its getting more so. We are all human beings, and all have issues that are individual. When anything, like business, government, sports, universities, etc, get too big, there is danger.

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    Silver Member Jilmac's Avatar
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    Rebecca, when you mention the "transgender umbrella", you're using a term which describes all of us, whether we're fully transitioning or not. As a lifelong crossdresser, I consider myself transgendered because I can enjoy both my male and female sides with no repercussions. The LGBT community in Milwaukee is very welcoming to crossdressers as transgender people and an integral part of the community.
    Luv and Jill


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  8. #8
    Aspiring Member Leona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimdl93 View Post
    we run the risk of getting bogged down in the terminology again. transgender is a much broader umbrella than just the transsexual population that is contemplating or engaged in transitioning. But I can tell you that from the people I know in the LGBT movement, we are welcome and embraced. sure, not by every gay or lesbian person, but then we aren't embraced by every straight person either...as a group we get along fine and hardly need to spit hairs by suggesting that CD is something different from TG
    I have found an overall attitude that it's ok to be TS. If you're not transitioning, then you have to conform to your sex. I have found that attitude in the LGB community as well as the mainstream world. And, oddly, I live in a very liberal place.

    This is subjective, it says nothing about how people really feel in general, it only talks about experiences that lead to me feeling as I do. I think as crossdressers we have our own fight on our hands, and it's mostly not a legal fight, it's a social fight. I'd rather it not be a fight, though....

  9. #9
    Full-Time Duality NathalieX66's Avatar
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    One, technically crossdressers are transgender.....especially if you are out in public as the other gender. Transgender is basically an umbrella term for varieties of gender expression, including drag queen, and transsexual.

    Two, Transsexuals are also transgender but transsexual people are really cisgendered....but just not in the body they're born with.

    There's a well known joke in the transgender community, it goes like this:
    What's the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual?........answer: two years!

    Two years typically refers to the process of changing from male to female, or vice versa. MTF requires hair removal, hormone replacement therapy, and surgeries of one wishes, or can do so. I have a couple of close friends who have done so,and I stand on record of saying that the results are miraculous in their cases. it typically takes about two years or so.

    There are also situations where one comes out as a latent crossdresser, and two years later just says, I want to be a woman. .

    I have met trassexuals that hate the term transsexual, and prefer to use transgender, and are mad that crossdressers also identify as transgender simply becasuse they hate the word transsexual.
    Last edited by NathalieX66; 07-02-2013 at 09:35 PM.

  10. #10
    Aspiring Member Leona's Avatar
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    Nathalie: I have found a lot of resistance to terminology in general, even in myself. I prefer not to consider myself transgender at all and would be happy to leave that label for transsexuals that hate the word "transsexual". I feel like the word transgender is more of a political word, even if it's defined by the APA.

    Luckily, we have the APA and a few other organizations to define the words for us, and hopefully all we need do is agree on what they mean. It's very difficult to communicate when nobody wants to agree that particular labels apply to them because the labels themselves are crap.

    I can see how you wouldn't want "transsexual" applied, since it fits so smoothly with heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual, and one thing we all face is making it perfectly clear that being transgender says absolutely nothing about who you want to have sex with. So I'm siding with your friends who don't like the word "transsexual", but my vocabulary has nothing that distinguishes them from crossdressers without crossdressers giving up the TG label, and we can't because it's a political word.

    Love dilemmas. They're often best fixed by hugs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NathalieX66 View Post

    Two, Transsexuals are also transgender but transsexual people are really cisgendered....but just not in the body they're born with.
    I don't think this makes even a single particle of sense. No offense or anything - but I've heard this from others here, and I think it is just silly. When I have my own breasts, and vaginoplasty, does that make me a cisgendered woman? Hell no. Should I be treated as one? Yes. It's awesome to try to be accepting and stuff - but if we were cisgendered women, we wouldn't need to transition. It just makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leona
    Luckily, we have the APA and a few other organizations to define the words for us, and hopefully all we need do is agree on what they mean.
    The APA has no business defining this stuff either. Or maybe we should let them define terms for lung cancer, diabetes, and other physical ailments. The APA defines this stuff because the AMA is too freaking gutless to do it.

  12. #12
    Just A Simple Girl Michelle.M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathalieX66 View Post
    . . . Transsexuals are also transgender but transsexual people are really cisgendered....but just not in the body they're born with.
    Not even close. You need to study a little more on those definitions.
    I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.

  13. #13
    Full-Time Duality NathalieX66's Avatar
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    I agree. I concede. I will study on those definitions.
    Last edited by DAVIDA; 07-03-2013 at 05:13 AM. Reason: There is no need to quote the post right before yours

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    Aspiring Member Leona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    I don't think this makes even a single particle of sense. No offense or anything - but I've heard this from others here, and I think it is just silly. When I have my own breasts, and vaginoplasty, does that make me a cisgendered woman? Hell no. Should I be treated as one? Yes. It's awesome to try to be accepting and stuff - but if we were cisgendered women, we wouldn't need to transition. It just makes no sense.
    I'm going to disagree that you should be treated as a cisgender woman. I think you should be treated as a woman....period. No qualifiers, no conditions. You are a woman now, you will be a woman in the near future, and you will continue being a woman in the far future.

    I don't think that TS's seek to be cis, but they do enjoy the distinction of being able to live as cisgender women, which us crossdressers don't get to do. The best we can hope for is to be treated as women. (Edit: This statement is qualified. I realize that the reality for many TS's is that to be able to live as cis women, they have to abandon their previous lives completely. It's obviously not possible to grow up in a male body, keep that life while transitioning, and become a cis woman.)

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    The APA has no business defining this stuff either. Or maybe we should let them define terms for lung cancer, diabetes, and other physical ailments. The APA defines this stuff because the AMA is too freaking gutless to do it.
    100% true. I have absolutely no disagreement with you here. I understand the historical context, and right now the APA is our biggest professional/scientific ally because they have had the courage to tackle this. But you're right, it shouldn't be them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leona View Post
    I'm going to disagree that you should be treated as a cisgender woman. I think you should be treated as a woman....period. No qualifiers, no conditions. You are a woman now, you will be a woman in the near future, and you will continue being a woman in the far future.
    OK, this I agree with, thanks!

    FWIW, I'm considering, depending on how things go, not living in stealth. I want to keep my friends and family in my life, such as I can - many of them are being accepting. Yeah, my marriage is a goner, but my wife will hopefully stay a friend, given some time to get over her hurt. (I need that time too!) It's a lot to ask them to keep such a secret for me.

    Also, the idea of not hiding so much is appealing to me. And while I don't intend to walk around with a sign saying "I'm trans!", maybe I'll be able to stand up and represent in my own quiet way. Because invisibility may make us feel more authentic - of this I have no doubt, and I don't question anyone who'd choose that - but if no one knows about us, how do we ever advance?

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    Full-Time Duality NathalieX66's Avatar
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    Michele M, tell us your story. No offense ...we must learn.
    Peace & love.
    Hugs,
    Nathalie

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    My trans group is part of the GLSO and LGBT in our area and both groups fully support the CD's too.
    Tonight I went to a cook out and some were Transmen some were Lesbians some were Gay.
    A few were straight couples and their kids.
    A fabulous night with some wonderful people.
    If you have a trans group ask the GLBT and GLSO for their assistance. by aligning with either or you might be able to have a larger voice in your community.
    It sure worked for us in getting a fairness clause implemented in our town.

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    My local trans support group is also part of the LGBT alliance. I contributed money to them recently, and told the director there that I appreciated the LGB folks doing the heavy lifting for equality, and remembering "T" folks like me, and having to compassion to not watch us get screwed over, and to stand up for us.

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    Silver Member I Am Paula's Avatar
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    Leona, in my experience, when I was though of as a really gung ho CD, I was much more accepted than when I began transition. Transition makes cisgendered people go eeew! They come around eventually.



    PaulQ, I'm transitioning right out in the open. I went full time before HRT, so there was certainly no point backtracking. IMHO, once you've decided to be whole, embrace it. I'd rather be funny looking,but presenting female, than be one of the bearded ones with boobs who yhink they're hiding it so well.
    Last edited by I Am Paula; 07-02-2013 at 11:12 PM.

  20. #20
    Aspiring Member Leona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    but if no one knows about us, how do we ever advance?
    Well, I don't think transitioning is in my future, but I certainly don't hide or try to be invisible. I may not be ready to go out 100% en femme, but I'm out and making noise.

    "Be dangerous and unpredictable, and make a lot of noise." --Anthrax

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    Aspiring Member TeresaCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    LGB folks doing the heavy lifting for equality, and remembering "T" folks like me, and having to compassion to not watch us get screwed over, and to stand up for us.
    Good way to put it, I guess how I view it.
    I don't believe there is any such thing as 'just a CD' myself. Not anymore, anyhow.
    I am a guy, who expresses myself at times as a girl.
    More than the clothes.
    And I do wonder what it would be like, if, when going out, I could choose how to express myself without fear of ridicule, injury or offense.
    I can see a time, not sure what I can do to contribute, but looking for ways to stand tall, and dispel the myths and b**sh/t about us.
    Learning to be me - the best me I can be

  22. #22
    Silver Member kellycan27's Avatar
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    My own personal opinion is that the LGBT community doesn't see cross dressers as a serious ally in the fight. There are a lot of cross dressers who are in the closet and don't want to be outed. There are those who can cross dress and change back into and enjoy their male life who feel no need to be represented, and there are those who are embarrassed, afraid or ashamed and don't want to rock their own boat. Just to name a few. It reminds me of the story of " the little red hen" everyone wants a piece of the bread, but nobody ( at least not enough) want to put the work into baking it.
    Last edited by kellycan27; 07-03-2013 at 12:13 AM.
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  23. #23
    Member Christine.Lolita's Avatar
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    I believe that Cross Dressers are part of the Trans gendered spectrum. I have been seeing a therapist and this is what was explained to me. I know that many cross dressers do not feel that that are TG and I totally respect that.

  24. #24
    Aspiring Member Leona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeresaCD View Post
    And I do wonder what it would be like, if, when going out, I could choose how to express myself without fear of ridicule, injury or offense.
    I can see a time, not sure what I can do to contribute, but looking for ways to stand tall, and dispel the myths and b**sh/t about us.
    I'm not trying to pimp my website, but I *did* write an article about this.

    http://www.davefancella.com/blog/heb_in_a_skirt.html

    In short, what you can do is go out anyway. When people look at you funny, stare them down. Be assertive. Assert your rights. When you get bad treatment from anybody representing any organization, raise hell with that organization.

    We should have our own Pride parade. We should have a dedicated "We're trans and proud!" event. All closet crossdressers should show up and be allies, staying in the closet but still standing up for their rights.

    Ok, I'm obviously going off the deep end on this, but hey, I'm a bit of a rebel and want to stand up to authority pretty much all the time.

  25. #25
    Aspiring Member Brooklyn's Avatar
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    I'm out, proud and feel part of the movement to treat everyone as equals, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity / expression. I felt very much accepted at the Pride parade here in San Antonio on Saturday. The more we can be open and set good examples, the more we will find ourselves tolerated under the law and eventually accepted by society. But, we are going to have to fight for our rights, just like women, ethnic minorities, and gay people have over the decades. Here in Texas, you can be fired for being a CD-er in your private life, and I know several TS people who cannot find a job because of their appearance. Some of them are homeless, and two of them are prostitutes to survive. I don't care what acronyms people prefer; we are all queer in some way!

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