How do you feel about women?

[Leah Lynn]

I love the ladies! However, to me, "acting like a lady" means not spitting tobacco juice on the floor, or "scratching where it itches", to quote the great Hayden Fry. Things that the guys do when it's just the guys.

Leah

[whowhatwhen]

That's not fair though either.
I've known a few women who can be just as vulgar as men, in fact, I'd say both can be equal at times when it comes to that sort of thing.

Kinda reminds me of a post in the TS forum basically saying something like "they weren't women because they weren't acting like ladies".
Women shouldn't have their identities tied into being dainty and submissive.

[MysticLady]

Women shouldn't have their identities tied into being dainty and submissive.

That would be a woman that is a Lady. That, I find very attractive in a woman.

[kimdl93]

So much of what is often projected on women is an idealized or romanticized or fetishized fiction. What I know and admire about women derives from those I grew up with, loved and worked with. The quiet strength, ability to do what had to be done, a measure of selflessness and concern for others. Of course, none of these traits were unique to women...I saw them in men I respect as well...just not as often.

[ErinSassyPants]

See, you're gonna run into a bit of trouble with that line of thinking.

"Acting like a lady" is often a way for men to express how women should act for their benefit.
ie. Submissive, knows her place, goes out of her way to be attractive for men, and so on.

Now women are free to act how they feel and that doesn't mean being a toy for men to leer at.
I respect women who take their rightful place as equals and demand respect from society.

IMO The most powerful women are the ones who aren't acting as "ladies".

Edit:
I've not studied feminism so if I'm misguided please throw some corrections my way.

I thought you said that very well. I would simply add a bit to your sentence.

IMO The most powerful women are *most often* the ones who aren't acting as "ladies" or at least are not trapped in the box of lady like.

There are some powerful women who do make use of the powerful perception of "lady like" to get stuff done some times.

[Alice Torn]

I could say that women becoming ladies, can be carried to boys and men becoming GENTLEMEN, cleaning up their acts. One thing i have learned by going out as a lady, is, that girls and women tend to feel like prey, sadly. Men are tormented by the fact, that they are often looked on, and feel like potential PREDATORS. Just tonight, I, pulled up to the post office, to check my box, at the same time someone else pulled up. I walked in and got my male, in drab. As i was leaving, a GG walked in, from her car, which had been there before mine. We made eye contact, and i said hi, but she looked scared and said nothing. This is a small town, too. I could tell she looked on me as a potential predator. This a great travesty, the state of fear between the sexes.

[GBJoker]

I think that I see women a little bit different than I used to. I've noticed that I've really started thinking that several GGs are using far more make up than they actually need, or they are putting too much effort into looking good, when they don't need to, etc. Other than that, I don't really notice any difference.

There is no specific experience that I'm aware of that influenced this.

I'm sort of guessing what the definition of "cismale" is when I answer this next question. I think I see more of the effort females put into looking good than other males. I dunno.

I don't think there is any difference in admiration now than before.

I am most definitely not a feminist.

[docrobbysherry]

I'm not sure. I haven't felt a woman in quite awhile!
Unless u count Sherry?

Seriously? The only thing that has effected my thots of women is when I was taken by some as a woman and treated like one at a vanilla function last Halloween. Women have it tough! And, most guys r jerks!

[whowhatwhen]

Funny you should mention gentlemen...
It's not as bad of a stereotype/societal expectation but it's still pretty harmful.

You have all these arbitrary "man rules" which stifle emotions in men and IMO emotional development in growing boys as well.
You know...

- Man up
- Don't cry
- Get into stereotypical manly activity (x)

I think you'd find a lot of those also deeply rooted into (NOT GAY) as well.
So essentially the same thing that makes men objectify women is the same thing hurting men in the long run as well.

[PaulaQ]

How do you think you see women differently now than you did before you had the experiences you now have(dressing, presenting to the public as female, transitioning etc)?

Not really - I pay more attention to their appearance an mannerisms now - detail stuff like makeup, clothing. I do notice that women smile a lot more to each other, and that there is a really pleasant gentleness about the way a lot of women approach each other, even if just to ask for some inconsequential question. I do find that I enjoy my experiences speaking with women / passing WAY more than the ones with men. It's OK when a guy doesn't clock me - I dunno, mostly I don't care. But when a woman treats me as another woman socially - now that is just priceless to me.

How do you think you see women differently than cismales?

I think so. If nothing else, women treat other women differently than they treat men, in general. (There are exceptions, of course.) Most guys would never be aware of this. I think there are a lot of nuances to women's emotions, and the way they approach each other, men, and life, that most guys are clueless about. (I'm not saying *I* understand all these either - maybe someday I'll kinda be in the ballpark. One can hope, anyway.) Some cismales are aware these nuances exist - they just don't understand them well, and often don't really care to understand them.

Do you consider yourself a feminist? and if so how much do you think that is because of your experiences as feminine/female?

I certainly hope so! My views were mostly set long before I realized I was trans - when I was growing up, I watched the terrible problems my mother had on the job, and the blatant sexism and discrimination she faced. I thought it was horrible, and still do. It's better than it used to be - but we've a long way to go.

[Dianne S]

I am most definitely not a feminist.

I find that surprising... could you explain? I think it might depend on your definition of "feminist."

I consider "feminism" to be the belief that women should be entitled to the same rights and responsibilities as men and should where possible be treated equally. There are of course a few exceptions where the difference really matters (sports, certain jobs that require physical strength) but those situations are relatively rare.

[GBJoker]

Dawn

I feel like I suddenly have to attatch a massive neon sign flashing the words "Warning, Warning!" at the top of every one my posts.

Based on my experiences with the people I have interacted with in the past five years, a feminist is some one who wants female supremacy and domination. Yes, yes, make all you jokes about that real fast here, and get it out of your system. I would never align myself with any one who supports a mindset such as that. While I recognize the fact that there are many women and men who label themselves as "feminist" who are not the extreme of what I've encountered, they are already tainted in my mind, by those that are extreme. And quite frankly, when it's bad to make this joke, "Many people say women should remain in the kitchen. I disagree. Women should remain in the bedroom." But it's okay to make this joke, "That guy is clearly a 2 minute man. And that one is a one minute man. Lets all talk about them being minute men." Then there is something wrong in my opinion.

Really, my reasons for thinking this could cover several dozen pages, but this thread is neither the time or place I feel.

[PaulaQ]

I am most definitely not a feminist.

I think the joke may be on you.

[whowhatwhen]

Clearly jokes about sexual performance are equal to the thousands of years of the subjugation of women.
Sorry you feel that the playing field being leveled is female domination.

That being said there are extremes to feminism as well, some specifically fighting against trans rights.
Of course it would be ridiculous to write off feminism because of a few bad apples.

But I'll get the MRA funnies off my chest now since you asked...

MY LITTLE PONY
FEDORAS
NECKBEARDS
FRIENDZONE
REDDIT
MENS RIGHTS
FEMINAZIS
GB2KITCHEN

Am I missing some?

[GBJoker]

PaulaQ; It must be, because I don't understand any thing any one says on this site.

whowhatwhen: I'd really appreciate it if you didn't shove words into my mouth, or strawman my point of view just to shove me down.

[whowhatwhen]

Where did I do that?

[GBJoker]

I never said a level playing field is equal to dominance, nor anything remotely similar to that. I said that the feminists I have personally met want supremacy.

[whowhatwhen]

My bad then, I guess the opposite side of the coin I see is MRAs wanting male supremacy to remain in place.
*shrug*

[PaulaQ]

PaulaQ; It must be, because I don't understand any thing any one says on this site.

The joke is that it's possible that one day, you'll wake up, and realize "oh shit - I'm a girl." Happens to some of us. Hope it doesn't happen to you, but still - irony happens. My personal bet is that God is a 3 stooges fan.

[GBJoker]

whowhatwhen: Maybe there isn't a coin. Maybe it's far more gray than you'd like to admit.

PaulaQ: I still have no ****ing clue what you're saying.

God damn it, if I'm just going to get harrassed for posting anything, why am I even here?

[Lorileah]

I kind of understand Joker's point here but there is a reason it (feminism) seems so radical to many. It is part of the negotiation process. Women are 70% equal men in today's society. So they have to ask 50% more to get the 30% they need to be equal.

Women don't want domination (really...think about it would you say the same thing about a man who was aggressively seeking something?) and they don't want to subjugate men. But all the traits that people admire about "successful" men are what you see with feminists. I call it playing by the same ground rules.

[GBJoker]

Lorileah, that is NOT at all what I am saying!

The only feminists I have met in person are women and men who demand women get paid 200% of what men get paid. I refuse to allow myself to be associated with any one who thinks that, thus, I am not a feminist.

In my experience, women and men who want true female equality, and I cannot for the bloody life of me emphasize the word "equality" enough here; I mean, real, 100% complete equal-ness in all aspects of life, are actually HESITANT to label themselves "feminist," because the extremists.

And I'm just going to ignore that 70% thing.

[PaulaQ]

PaulaQ: I still have no ****ing clue what you're saying.

God damn it, if I'm just going to get harrassed for posting anything, why am I even here?

Hi GBJoker, I'm sorry if you feel I'm picking on you. I don't mean anything malicious by it, so I'll spell out what I'm saying. And again - I don't mean any harm by any of this, or to be mean to you.

You identified yourself as TG/TS in another post, right? So if you are TS, you may, one day, transition, and live your life as a woman, and discover what it is that women are complaining about. Here's a brief, real-world example. Years ago, my wife worked as tech support in a call center. She was actually quite good. Here's a typical interaction for her though:
Dude Caller: "I'm trying to get my printer to work in <blah blah configuration>
Wife: "I'm sorry, but that configuration won't do what you want, here's a workaround ..."
Dude Caller: <interrupts> "What the HELL are you talking about - you get me your manager on the phone right now, someone who knows what in the shit they are talking about!!!!!"
Wife: <puts call on hold> "Hey Phil, will you come tell this guy this workaround, he needs to hear it from someone with a penis"
Phil: "I'm sorry sir, this is Phil, her manager. Can you explain what you are doing to me?"
Dude Caller: <repeats dumbass attempt at printer configuration>
Phil: "Well sir, I'm sorry, but that won't work - here's a workaround for you <repeats what my wife was trying to tell him>"
Dude Caller: "Whoa, thanks! I didn't know that wouldn't work! Awesome, I appreciate your help."

There's lots more situations than that though, believe you me. *I* don't even know the half of it, and I only know what I do because I'm observant.

On my other snarky comment, about vibrators - masturbation is a big motivation for some to visit this forum. (Not you, I realize now). So it was kind of funny to hear someone from this forum be anti-masturbation for women. BTW, there's no reason to be intimidated if your future spouse owns a vibrator. Even married people masturbate, and it's way less threatening to your marriage than if she's with another guy, and anyway, some nights you might find yourself engrossed in a book about quantum mechanics, and just "not be that into it." Happens. Hard to believe now, I'm sure, but it happens.

Again, sorry if I have caused you any anxiety, I don't mean it - you seem like a nice person.

The only feminists I have met in person are women and men who demand women get paid 200% of what men get paid. I refuse to allow myself to be associated with any one who thinks that, thus, I am not a feminist.

There are crazy people in every belief system. Best not to judge any of them by the extreme examples. I'm sorry that's all you've met.

I don't know that anyone can ask for total equality - there are differences between men and women, and in some areas, they have different needs. However, the 30% uterus tax women pay in terms of their salary is offensive and HAS GOT TO GO.

[GBJoker]

PaulaQ: I understand fully that the situation your wife finds herself in is still some what common. But after having just now chain-smoked half a pack to try to cool off a bit, I realize this; clearly, we, and whowhatwhen and I... and maybe me vs dozens of others on this site, have such radically different viewpoints as to be completely irreconcilable, to the point where we may never understand each other. So... I'm done. I'm out.

I am not anti-women-masturbating. If a female is single, or dating some one who is cool with it/doesn't care, she can do it however often she likes. Five times a day, for all I care. And hell, I even encourage it, because of all the health benefits, which are far and away well documented.

The reason I would dump a girl, or guy for that matter, who masturbated while dating me is simultaneously simple and complex. I do not know how to make a person happy. I don't know what presents are acceptable in this society. I don't know what acts are acceptable. I am physically incapable of comprehending what I can do to make a person happy in a relationship. What I do know, is considered heavily stalkerish by today's standards, and... I just don't want to be arrested. So, in my mind, if I can't make the person I'm dating happy... in... physical aspects, then I have ultimately failed, 100% of the way. And I do have evidence and some proof that I will never be able to make a female physically happy in a relationship. Thus, assuming the hypothetical that I'm in a relationship with a girl, and she is masturbating or using sex toys, I will ALWAYS see that as a signal that I am failing. Failing at doing my job, or being a good boy/girlfriend, whatever I am anymore. Failing at being a good person, in general.

Now, if you will excuse me, I will leave this thread forever, and go bury my face in a pillow.

[Lorileah]

where did this go to what a person does in the privacy of their bedroom? And what has that to do with feminism? Don't reply to that Joker...it is so far off topic I will have to delete it. As Paula said, I am sorry that you met the extreme ends of the feminist spectrum.

Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.

Feminism is and has always been a movement to get equal rights for females. I looked and cannot even find anything that says feminists want all the power and control. It has to do with changing laws and culture to be more balanced. To change culture sometimes you have to be more aggressive.