Why haven't you started this thread, yet, ReineD?
Why haven't you started this thread, yet, ReineD?
Frédérique, I'm confused. I'm only a part-time dresser, same as you, and I haven't seen any sign that I'm unwelcome here. Quite the opposite, in fact; I have some real girlfriends here, some of whom I've been able to meet and hug in real life!
Or is it just that you and I feel differently about our inner feminine nature? I don't hold that against you; I know there are approximately as many reasons people have for crossdressing as there are crossdressers.And, while I feel a certain way about myself (that I have a part-female soul), I know that this is just my feeling, a theory that happens to fit the facts. If some other theory fit better, I'd junk my current one and go with that.
I do know I've missed your commentary, which is always good to read even if I don't have anything to say about it. You're like the "thinker" or "essayist" of this forum. It makes me wonder if you shouldn't think about writing a book...
- Amy
Amy Gale Ruth Bowersox (nee Tapie) - "Be who you are, and be it in style!"
Member, Board of Trustees, Gender Identity Center of Colorado
aka Amelia Storm - Ms. Majestic Hearts of All Colorado 2018-2019, Miss Majestic Hearts of All Colorado 2015-2016
Exactly the kind of response I would expect from someone who misses the point. FYI, I’m really NOT interested in your response, so how can it be considered to be trolling? People tend to trot out the “troll” moniker when they don’t like the tone of something I’ve written. I’m merely trying to point out a discrepancy on this site, based on several years of observation, before it gets buried under tons of TG verbiage. Sorry if I sound miffed, but replies like yours are very frustrating and self-serving…Originally Posted by Leona
How long have you been HERE, anyway?
I have a thick hide, developed (against my will) during the course of four years of activity. It’s very WET here in Kansas at the moment, soon to be much wetter, and the tall grass is green…
Posted like a GG who is not on this side of the equation. Shall I show you the many deleted, closed and/or altered threads that I have in my collection, detritus of the many battles I’ve had with certain “types” of MtF crossdressers and their supporters? That may open your eyes. If my memory serves me, I believe you once posted several anti-responses to my simple “I like to wear women’s clothing” thread – doesn’t that amount to disparagement?
BTW, if people don’t dislike me, they have a funny way of showing it (see post #5). Things like that make me feel VERY unwelcome here…
It is an interesting question, but it also requires a lot of soul searching and honesty. I don't really know what 'true' transgender people actually feel and I'm going out on a huge limb here, but I feel some cross-dressers would rather want to believe that their gender assigned at birth isn't 100% correct instead of acknowledging that their ever escalating cross-dressing habits are grounded in fetishism. That's not to say it's still purely a sexual thing after years of doing it: I feel good doing it, but it doesn't 'excite' me any more than seeing well-dressed women in the streets. I also wonder if the reason why the CD community as a whole mainly dresses up like 'female cliches' (in the words of TheMissus) rather than, you know, actual women, has something to do with this.
Edit:
Amy Gale actually made this thread here. I think I wrote a better response there.
Last edited by Zylia; 08-06-2013 at 04:44 AM.
You only read the first sentence, obviously.
Obviously not, or you would have read my entire post.I have a thick hide, developed (against my will) during the course of four years of activity. It’s very WET here in Kansas at the moment, soon to be much wetter, and the tall grass is
At this point, I'm agreeing with Tamara. This is all drama queening, with very little substance.
@Frédérique I'm new here so what do I know, but derailing the thread with hostilities and complaining about all that meta forum crap is a surefire way to get this one closed as well, which would be a pity, because the opening post is a good read and offers quite a few good things to talk about. Maybe it's my inexperience on this forum, but I wouldn't victimize myself so much if I wanted to get my point across. Anyway, thanks for your insights for the time being.
Tamara really has a way with words. I can only hope to become as eloquent as her
hi Frédérique
I do notice you seem to on the nothing side of the all or nothing question.
I have been here a long time and I am struggling to remember a thread where you posted about enjoying your time crossdressing. (there may have been some)
This may be part of the reason why you feel things are unfair as others do not see you relaxing. You are always raising questions and yes this can help provide a better understanding of our differences but its not always about questions IMHO
This forum is for everyone but no one can force people to agree with them. We are all different and that is why there can be some good debates sometimes.
Exactly!! And Freddy, you wouldn't get so many posts/threads deleted if they didn't break the forum rules, so let's not go there shall we??
You post for the drama, you are infact a huge drama queen, woe is me etc etc... You keeps saying you're not transgender, well no you're not. Transgender and Transgendered have different meanings, you should try looking them both up, then you might not be so confused.
Administrator
Missing my Libra babe Sherlyn, I hope she's rocking up there with the angels
Missing our Rianna, doesn't seem right, gone to early, hope she's partying with Sherlyn
IMHO, the varied responses to this post prove Freddy's point. I thought the purpose of this site was to provide support, share experiences and help us explore ourselves. Certainly we will disagree -- the old Mark Twain adage about differences of opinion making a horse race -- but we need to respect each other, as well as ourselves. Freddy, I for one have missed your musings -- even if they sometimes take me a bit too much time to digest!
I am surprised and dismayed at the lack of tolerance that we sometimes express in our posts. How can we hope for some sort of tolerance from non-TG's, (be they wives / GF's, neighbors or those we interact with when Out and About) when we don't show this kind of tolerance for ourselves? In one of Kate Bornstein's books she posted a tongue-in-cheek list of the TG spectrum ("Post-op TS's who look down on ...who look down on .. ") . We don't need this here; it's not just All or Nothing, it includes everything in between.
OK, Claire is getting off her little Ivory Soap box....
Last edited by Claire Cook; 08-06-2013 at 07:33 AM.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Proud member of the Lacey Leigh Fan Club
Off topic here, I know, but I'd love to see a separate thread about this as THIS is exactly what my H also says and some of the CD wives I've recently spoken to say the same thing - their husbands insist on giving non-sexual reasons to explain their escalating CDing and are actually making life more difficult for it. (It's nearly impossible for a wife not to realize true motive when she's living it every day, and believe me, most women prefer honesty over politically correct BS!) I can only guess people do this because they feel embarrassed to have a fetish?
Seems sad to me - sexuality is as much a part of who we are as anything else and as authentic a reason to CD as gender dysphoria or stress or whatever. But, that's another thread again and I'm hoping Zylia will start one soon
Hey TheMissus, Amy Gale actually made this thread and I think we're already exploring that exact idea. Every thread here is in dire need of a honest GG perspective (even if it's not the only GG perspective), so please come and visit
Very Nice, I guess you can have a cookie now.
You know Tamara, Drama, is part of this phenomenon, I'm sure you've read my thread in the Love ones Section. As a matter of fact, Drama, just makes me feel more Fem for some reason or another. This fem thing just let's me open up about my life. I hate Drama as a man, I would never discuss this, I would just keep it bottled up until I would explode , like a nuke. Just my thoughts.
Last edited by MysticLady; 08-06-2013 at 08:09 AM.
At the risk of losing my own welcome on these sites, I have to ask, are these rules only enforced on those who disagree with you or the ones you dislike? I'm pretty sure profanity and verbal assault are also against the forum rules. Do you intend to delete your own posts on this thread?
It's you're forums you have absolute power. So that makes this acceptable?The odds are stacked against you, because all you do is friggin moan about this forum and how it isn't for you etc... so if this forum is no good for you, then go find one that is, because quite frankly, I am sick of your goddamn whining, get a sodding grip
Hug
Rita
A person should wear what he likes to. And not just what other folks say. A person should be who she likes to. A person's a person that way!
~Marlo Thomas~
Thanks for pointing this out. This addresses much of Freddie's concerns. She does have a "grip" and not a "gripe".
I intended to stay out of this because it is just a rehash of the same old thing that Freddy posts all the time and I agree with the posts that say she is looking for a response so she can b*tch about it (ok Freddy, your turn).Just what is the point? You complain you don't get respect for your ideals, then you shoot down others for the same reason. You divide the forum to try and prove a point when it wasn't divided to start with. You say you don't get respect then you tell another memberFYI, I’m really NOT interested in your response,says the queen of weasel words and twists, the one who makes up her own definitions to suit her point of view.trying to point out a discrepancy on this site, based on several years of observation, before it gets buried under tons of TG verbiage.says the queen of self serving. Really Freddy, why do you keep coming back if this site bothers you so much. Aren't there enough windmills in Kansas?Sorry if I sound miffed, but replies like yours are very frustrating and self-serving…
as evidenced by the above quotes...I have a thick hide,
Nice and diplomatic. Did you stomp your foot too? So now the TSs and the GGs have pissed in your Cheerios...and you wonder why people don't like you?Posted like a GG who is not on this side of the equation.Any threads you have had closed or deleted violated a rule. I told you early on I would defend you and your posts but you never make it easy. I have given up.Shall I show you the many deleted, closed and/or altered threads that I have in my collection, detritus of the many battles I’ve had with certain “types” of MtF crossdressers and their supporters?
When you start out goading different members, you expect unicorns?BTW, if people don’t dislike me, they have a funny way of showing it (see post #5). Things like that make me feel VERY unwelcome here…
Remember that Tamara is a member here and she has the same rights and regulations as anyone else. She voiced an opinion. It is an opinion shared by many. Often Freddy's threads are closed when complaints about them reach the staff. They may not post on her thread, in fact look at the number of views vs the number of replies. But they often insult the very people she thinks she is defending. There are a few people here who believe they are somehow disenfranchised because of a perceived (yes perceived) line in the sand between what they see as different factions. Those people are the ones who made the lines, no one else has. As far as rules being enforced, I can tell you that the moderators on this particular part of the forum give a lot of leeway and try and allow people to discuss things without interference. We may let a lot of petty stuff go but we do follow the rules. Nothing that has been closed or deleted has been done frivolously. We don't have vendettas. It becomes difficult though when a person or persons start sniping from the start.
Understand also that this is a private web site, paid for by a private group. You get to use it for free. The owners don't interfere but trust the staff to keep it in line. This is like herding cats. Especially when threads are started with no other purpose than to elicit anger.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
I fully recognize this and am grateful for the opportunity. I also have been told questioning this type of thing is what can lead to no longer being allowed use of these forums.This is why I thought about it over nightbefore responding. I fear greatly the results of this thread. A smart girl who is new in town would just shut up. The need to question injustice outweighed my fear of banishment. Mom taught me to speak up when someone is being bullied.
I don't know Ms. Fredrique at all. It could be exactly as you say she is a drama queen who likes to whine. Maybe in a few months I will cringe at the site of her avatar. And understand exactly what you all are saying. Who knows? Don't drama queens deserve the same humanitarian treatment as the rest of us? If I see threads I don't like or disagree with even one I believe is an intentional trawl does that give me or any member, let alone an administrator the right to treat another human being that way?
I hope this does not lead to loss of my privileges to use this site but right is right.
Hug
Rita
A person should wear what he likes to. And not just what other folks say. A person should be who she likes to. A person's a person that way!
~Marlo Thomas~
I have a PM to send to you. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it…
I assure you that I am a lovely individual, just a lonely crossdresser out in the wilderness. I am NOT a drama queen, and I do not come here to whine about things. Over the course of 2500+ posts, during sincere attempts at generating discussion, I have been misinterpreted on occasion by those who don’t agree with anything I submit. Please consider me to be a friend of ALL crossdressers…
I’ll send you a PM, OK? It may be quite lengthy...
My apologies, I did not mean to cast aspersions at you, merely to say its not relevant.
Hug
Rita
A person should wear what he likes to. And not just what other folks say. A person should be who she likes to. A person's a person that way!
~Marlo Thomas~
Freddy, this is my point. We've had differences of opinion on definitions, but I never disliked you. As far as I remember, I've always treated you with respect. In fact, I remember at one point you were talking about your sadness over your sister's inability to understand, and I tried to help by giving you my GG point of view. I would not have done this if I thought ill of you. And I suspect that other forum members feel the same way.
Reine
Some here do moan and carry on or rehash how they feel that no one understands them or they don't fit a mold of some sort.
My question is to those that do make these threads over and over knowing its going to bring a poo storm of criticism? Aren't you bringing more negative feelings in to your life causing you more alienation?
Understand I'm not bashing any one person here but some of the long winded esoteric posts remind me of psychology classes I had in college.No right or wrong answer just a battle of wits between supposedly learned people.
If someone sees you arguing with an idiot how can they tell who is the idiot?
Last edited by Tracii G; 08-06-2013 at 06:47 PM.
The fact that some commenters refer to your post with words such as "moan", "whining", "drama queen" and so on (expletives deleted) proves your point that you are discounted as being a real or true or legitimate or whatever crossdresser (or transgender if you prefer) by those people, unless you subscribe to their thinking that this is all about confusion or conflict between our "gender" and our genetic sex. I enclosed gender in quotation marks as it is an abstract as opposed to a concrete noun. As such its meaning is totally subjective.
These people are indeed dismissive of anyone who expresses a view that their crossdressing has nothing to do with such a personal identity issue. Their message is that anything other than a gender issue is "fetishistic", sexual in nature or some other equally derogatory term that deserves their scorn.
Crossdressing is still a societal taboo and there is a stigma attached to it and anyone who practices it. Those of us who indulge in this passion feel a need to legitimize our actions which contributes to the inordinate amount of thought that occupies the time of most of us. Nobody worries about why they play golf, build model planes or trains, exercise excessively or listen to certain forms of music, because all of those things are socially acceptable. We may muse about what we derive from them, but never what causes them. The theory that a gender conflict is the cause of our crossdressing is an attractive one because it removes the responsibility for our actions from our conscious decision making processes and makes it an involuntary reaction. This theory may be true for some, but I feel that others are being coerced into accepting it for themselves by the forces of activism and political correctness, and its superficial attractiveness. We all want to be handed a nice simple solution to our problems.
In this environment, people who insist their crossdressing has nothing to do with gender identity are dismissed by the "trannier than thou" folks. Yes, these attitudes do exist in this forum and those of us who attempt to articulate our viewpoints do get shot down quite often, but I have noticed that there is an increasing number of folks who are supportive, not necessarily of our opinion or terminology but of our right to free expression.
Veronica
No you don't, but I do, I've been here long enough to know just why Freddy posts these kinds of threads. You have no idea about the threads created by Freddy that have caused an absolute shit storm not just in this section, but also in the TS section and a lot of them do not go down well, especially when Freddy insults people to the point it causes a flame war.
And no, I will not delete my posts, I'm also a member... just not a drama queen!!
Administrator
Missing my Libra babe Sherlyn, I hope she's rocking up there with the angels
Missing our Rianna, doesn't seem right, gone to early, hope she's partying with Sherlyn
Agreed with the last part, especially the "respect ourselves" part.
Here are all the snippets of languages from the OP to which I am, and always will be, intolerant. They are also what shows this is drama queening.
This is all weasel language, and it's existence colors the entire rest of the post making it look extremely passive-aggressive.
Now, here is what the OP would look like without this stuff in it, and with a minor change to make it honest to itself:
Now then, I also feel that there's too much talk of "my brand of crossdressing". This post, had it been limited purely to grievances, whether real or perceived, and including no weasel words, would have started an extremely constructive argument and given everyone pause to consider.All this and more: A good description for the world of crossdressing, eh?
Just under the heading for this section it says, “This section is for those interested in discussing ALL areas of male to female crossdressing.” That’s nice, isn’t it? That’s why I came here in the first place, to discuss my penchant for MtF crossdressing among other crossdressers, and this site definitely features ALL areas of MtF crossdressing. The word “all” is often used with a collective noun, like “All crossdressers are transgender,”, and it's well established that I disagree with that statement.
I would like to see a certain amount of fairness regarding ALL types of MtF crossdressing, which is promised, and not having the proceedings lean towards one group or another. “All” means considering everything, or any whatsoever, or existing as a whole. In this case, in this section, we are all MtF crossdressers, or we come in contact with MtF CD’ers one way or another. He may dress as a woman, or want to feel like a woman, however briefly. He may think he really was meant to be a woman, so he dresses like one as often as possible. He may gradually dissolve, and SHE appears to take his place. No matter what the circumstances, we are fighting for our ALL...
I may not be the most serious “type” of MtF crossdresser, but I need to crossdress. Some will ask why this is so (many have already), but there are no easy answers. I see myself as a valid crossdresser, in the purest sense of the word, so I am here, amongst the other crossdressers. I obviously have some connection with the matter at hand, which happens to be MtF crossdressing. I have respect for all types of crossdressers, so I wish some respectful consideration would emanate from other quarters, especially in this section. The fact that I’m writing this is twofold – I seek others like me, and I don’t need to feel like the “weak sister” of the crossdressing movement...
If I were to speak of numbers, I would propose that my “type” of MtF CD’er is the most numerous. snipped (much of this part of the commentary has substance, but I didn't want to edit it and add a bunch of words that aren't there, trying to keep my changes small to make the removal of weasel words seemless)
Recently I took a lengthy break from posting. I didn’t post for a week or so, and it felt good (i.e. I didn’t miss it), so I kept staying away. In my unforced absence, it’s funny how this place takes on a mythic resonance, if that is the correct phrase. All I can think about is this self-distilled idea that we, the part-time MtF crossdressers, either aren’t appreciated by the membership as a whole, or we just aren’t welcome, despite assurances to the contrary. Referencing the text below the MtF sectional heading, we MUST be welcome, to a certain degree, even though we may represent a thorn in the side of LGBT. Again, this is my personal feeling, which may or may not reflect the way things are, but when I see the word “ALL,” hope springs eternal...
At best, my “brand” of crossdressing is, at the very least, noteworthy, an individualistic exercise of the tallest order. As such, I may not need support from the “community” per se, but it’s good to know that there are others like me who may wish to discuss this odd, yet natural, compulsion. Don’t get me wrong – I respect anyone who is transgender, but many of us JUST crossdress, M to F, and we have a good time doing so. All in all, you should take time to consider that...
Don't you think "all" should mean ALL?
Instead, it was full of passive-aggressive language, which, once the weasel words are removed, isn't so bad, even if it's still hard to read. As it stands, I'd give it a passing C. To upgrade it to an A paper, the two ideas need to be separated and the post should be focused purely on one or the other, e.g. are part-timer CDers accepted here, or are part-timer CDers transgender and/or worthy of note. Pick one and stick with it. Mixing the two waters down the message so much that it's still difficult to read.
Last edited by Leona; 08-06-2013 at 06:42 PM.
I always enjoy Freddy's thought provoking posts and generally agree with them, but Veronica...BRAVO... your post suggests a very uncomfortable truth which fuels much of the blow back that posts like Freddy's generate.
Last edited by Tamara Croft; 08-06-2013 at 08:24 PM. Reason: quote removed
Thanks, Claire – I missed your supportive (and reasonable) comments as I was navigating the negative stuff earlier today! You remind me of something my good friend told me recently, namely that a lot of people don’t want to discuss things – it involves using your brain, and perhaps thinking about other viewpoints you were previously unaware of. When the topic is mildly controversial to some individuals, even though discussion is the desired goal, it’s much easier to spew forth the unsolicited personal attacks that have been brewing over time. Believe me, I’m not trying to CHANGE how things are around here, I’m just interested in talking about it. If someone comes away from this “argument” with a better understanding of the membership, then the discussion, however truncated or tainted it may be, will have been successful...
I’ve accepted my “level” of crossdressing, so I don’t mind the negative epithets hurled in my general direction. I have no aspirations beyond my own personal level of comfort, but that doesn’t mean my CD “voice” is illegitimate...
Here’s a quote from the late, great Christopher Hitchens, describing a certain group of people:
“Completely humorless, paranoid, insecure, eager to take offense, and suffering from self-righteousness, self-pity, and self-hatred. That last triptych of vices is intimately connected.”
Would anyone like to hear about my new panties? No?
Posting Permissions
.gif "Big Roll Eyes")
