Problem With Police

[t-girlxsophie]

I picked this up from the Police Scotland website,Think those two "Officers" would do well to read it

“Our focus is keeping people safe and that applies to all. There should be no barriers. We want to make our organisation more reflective of the communities we serve and we want to increase people’s trust and confidence in us by making policing responsive and accessible to all.

“The move to a single policing service allows us the opportunity to review all our approaches. It’s clear we can do more - both in encouraging people to come forward and report crimes where in the past they might not have felt comfortable to do so and that as the police, we are sensitive to the needs of all Scotland’s communities
“With public service at the heart of what we do, we must also ensure that as an organisation, we reflect the communities we serve. We must ensure there are equal opportunities for all at every rank and where there are barriers, we understand the challenges and address them.”

[Jorja]

I think I would make an appointment to speak to the (I don't know what you call them in the UK) Chief of Police (the head of the police). I would ask him if they have a diversity policy that they expect their patrolmen to follow. I would explain what happened then give him the name and badge number of the two officers that harassed you and allow them to take it from there.

[heatherdress]

All police are evil and poisoned with power.

Tara - I agree that these officers certainly appear to be ugly. They may not deserve to wear a badge.

All police, however, are not evil. I work with cops and they do a tough job, a dangerous job, a thankless job. The ones I work with are all very professional, courteous and do their jobs well.

There are also many members of this site who seem to be very sensitive and caring - and are cops.

[gailprice]

Firstly it would not be to hard to find out who these police officers are. By complaining to the police commander they will have to follow it up. The police officers would have logged the incident to there CAD room via radio to there police station also they should have made notes in there personal note books (this is required by police regulation)
also if they were telling the truth about the "police national computer" then they could be had for harassment to an individual. As they have used it as a threat. (you've caused no disorder and have not been cautioned or arrested or officially warned so stand easy i don't think its going on national computer) if you did get any of these then the police officers would have to fill what is called an EAB book with the details of the offence etc.

Yes you could be the cause of Breach of the peace, but so could a clown by the way they are dressed. If you were trying to attract attention dressed and knowing it would cause offence to someone then you may cause a breach of the peace but going about your own business NO you don't cause a breach of the peace it would be the person who's making a fuss over it that causes a breach of the peace. The police officers are biggots and really need to look at themselves. I am not going to encourage you to complain as that may make you feel exposed. But if you feel that this police stop was a step to far then complain but explain in your complaint that you fear that you could be exposed to friends etc and the the police commander has obligation to keep extra confidentiality. Also it should not lead back to the friends you know in the police force. However you may find if your police friends were to find out it may not be as bad as you think!! By the way your police friends could be dismissed from the police if they used the police national computer to find out and used information they gained from the police national computer or any internal enquiries about you or any one else if it were for there own personal reasons.

[Mollyanne]

I am a retired police officer from NYC and I agree w/Steph1964 in so far as the laws are concerned. But I wonder as to why they stopped you in the first place. Even if Scotland has cameras everywhere and they are programed to frame all vehicle license plates and transmit this info to a inquiring police officer for a "check" and your insurance was up to date why did they stop you?????? Did you do something that you did not realize, did you have a taillight out, did you not signal, did you exceed the speed limit?????? But in any event, they did not act in a professional manner nor did they give you correct information. Personally, I think the threat of listing you in the data base was BS. This is called profiling!!!!!!!

All police are evil and poisoned with power.

Tara, I PERSONALLY TAKE EXCEPTION TO THIS STATEMENT OF YOURS!!!!! ARE YOU SAYING THAT I'M EVIL AND POISONED WITH POWER?????

MOLLYANNE

[aliciasoprano]

Responding anonymously would be the best bet IMHO, to avoid becoming a target.

[MysticLady]

But in any event, they did not act in a professional manner nor did they give you correct information. Personally, I think the threat of listing you in the data base was BS. This is called profiling!!!!!!!

Mollyanne, Thank You for being a part of our community. Your experiences and background profession really help us that may be in doubt and end up the target of a corrupt man. We appreciate you and others w/ backgrounds that help our community.

[Jessica Keys]

Just today I had a male friend of mine who is with the State Hi-way patrol tell me that last night he stopped a transgender person for speeding.
He said she could have fooled him as she was dressed very well and had a fem voice to mach.
But when he brought it up on his car computer it told the officer that person was transgendered with the male name even though she had a state female name on her driver license. He said this person sure looked the fem part and he let her go with a warning.
That was the fist one he had ever stopped and had no ill-will at all towards this person.

[Faye56]

Firstly contact their senior officer by letter and keep a copy for yourself , secondly make it clear in your letter that you found their approach totally out of line within the laws of Scotland and the united kingdom and finally make it clear in your letter that you will be passing on your complaint to the Scottish Parliament and demand an acknowledgment within 7 days of the date on your letter. This will not fail and meanwhile as you wait for the the senior officer to reply and cover his own backside you drop a letter of complaint to the Scotsman newspaper.

I represented a client who was treated in the same disgraceful way when the London Riots were in full flow. This person was out dressed and returning home on the night the riots started, one letter and the police were grovelling to her.

You are not a criminal , you are a Scottish Citizen and demand to be treated with the respect due to a Scottish Citizen.

[MysticLady]

He said this person sure looked the fem part and he let her go with a warning.
That was the fist one he had ever stopped and had no ill-will at all towards this person.

This is not only a Professional Police Officer but, also an honorable man in my Book. Kudos too your friend.

[jodie k]

heatherdress has got it right:
look up those 2 websites before u do anything else.
the first one seems the best

[scarlett]

t-girlxsophie: The literal answer to your question is "yes".

I want to point out that I also said that Alabama, a state in the US, also has that reputation. So does Arkansas, Tennessee, well pretty much all of the old confederacy (Tennessee technically stayed with the Union, but it was a slave state). So it's not like I was failing to relate or identify. That relating and identifying seems to have failed to reciprocate.

Alabama, huh? I seem to recall that Texas is the state where kindergarten boys are expelled for the length of their hair . It's where the governor is a smarmy bible thumper opposed to womens rights.

ROLL TIDE!!

[Chickhe]

What you do is admit nothing about why you were dressed a certain way, but you go to the police station in drab as you normally look most of the time and you report the officers very odd behavior. Basically, you say what the office told you to his supervisor and you say you have no idea why he said those things and you let him explain. If he comes back explaining that his actions were because you were CDing, then he will be clearly in the wrong... if he says nothing, at least someone has a report about his bad attitude and someday it may haunt him. For you, by standing up, you show them you will be a force to deal with and don't worry about being out....they can get in a lot more trouble for spreading gossip. You just admit and say nothiing to anyone else and say the cop is making it up and you can't say more because you may press charges.

[Helen_Highwater]

I guess you know which force area you were in when stopped. I would suggest you go on line to see if they have a policy relating to the treatment of Bi, Gay and transsexual people. Most forces will.
If you think your treatment brakes these guidelines then complaint to the chief constable or alternatively check to see if there's someone with special responsibility for these matters within the force and firstly talk to them.
The logic of the officers who stopped you says that it's ok to beat up a Gay person if they walk into a "straight" pub. Sort of self inflicted wound. Don't think so.

[vanitysumers]

I have had the police follow me before (undercover) after they seen me dressed as a male.

I now know they have me in one of there data bases.

I do martial arts so I had the weapons we use as training props and the police assumed i was going to commit a crime with them.

they followed me with a police guard dog as protection.

I am in HOLLYWOOD CALIFORNIA
USA

[sherri]

Personally, I would find out what the local laws are regarding TGs and/or crossdressing so I would know exactly where I stand in any given situation, and then I'd probably let it go at that, if for no other reason than I don't want to be outed either. By the way, I don't CD in public in my hometown for that very reason. If they pulled me over again, I think I might turn on the audio recorder on my phone to record the event, just in case I decided I needed to take further action.

As for pursuing the matter should it become necessary, I bet you could just go talk to someone higher up the food chain without filing a formal complaint. Your identity and visit might be logged regardless, but I wouldn't think that would attract much notice, and the supervisor could use his own judgment about how to treat the matter internally without any further involvement from you.

As for what those two slugs said to you, sounds totally bogus to me. It's noteworthy that they did not specifically say that crossdressing is a crime, nor did they issue you any citation to that effect, which tells me it is not in fact against the law. And if it's not against the law, being out and about in and of itself could hardly be construed as creating a disturbance. Moreover, their assertion that they could/would not intervene in a public altercation on the grounds that your mere existence provoked the disturbance is absurd. Their job is to intervene, protect and otherwise follow procedure regardless of who provoked what, crossdressing or no crossdressing. Not only are these two guys liars, they're dumb liars.

[Sister Rachel]

I'd go to my (Westminster, Holyrood or both) MP about this if it came to it .. sounds like two bigoted dickheads have got too big for their boots!

"Behaviour liable to cause a breach of the peace"? .. umm, yeah, (e.g.) Clydebank was a model of peaceable sobriety last Saturday night until A MAN IN A SKIRT dared show his/her face

[Anita_2]

I'm sorry that happened to you. I am thinking they were with his own problems in head. I dont know the law but I think in all EU law there is no strictly dress code so I agree you can react maybe by sending letter to police central and asking for answer "can policeman react if he dont like how some person is dressed?". I think they can react if you are naked but if they react to that how are you dressed next time they can react on that what type of necktie somebody wear.

[lauren.h100]

I'm not familiar with Scots law but if the police officers were correct and "Causing Fear And Alarm" is a crime then surely you can press charges based on that very statement. If a policeman told me that simply being TG was sufficient grounds for them not to intervene if I was assaulted (I assume that means they'd either just watch the assault or walk away) I know that would most certainly cause fear and alarm in me. They're basically saying that in the event you are attacked, even if there's a battalion of police officers right there, you're on your own. How could that be anything other than taking away your reassurance of safety of living in a society protected by a police force and replacing it with fear and alarm? Again, I'm not sure of the law in Scotland but if a police officer is charged and convicted of a criminal offense such as "Causing Fear And Alarm" can he still be employed as a police officer?

[Shelly Preston]

Amanda I am sorry this happened to you.

The police have no way of knowing if the driver is insured. They will only know if the owner has the car insured.

I have to say the police in Scotland are normally very respectful.

However, I do know of one officer who missed out on a promotion due to a similar incident to a member of the trans community.

I can understand the reluctance to report this but I am sure the cheif constable will not be happy if he found his officers were behaving in such a manner. Since the officers made remarks which you would not expect I would consider taking it further. At the very least it would be worth having a chat with the local officer responsible for dealing with diversity.

[macada10]

I think the police were cheating on you....or maybe scotish people are simply crazy.

[MysticLady]

Alabama, huh? I seem to recall that Texas is the state where kindergarten boys are expelled for the length of their hair . It's where the governor is a smarmy bible thumper opposed to womens rights.

ROLL TIDE!!

Go Horns................YAY

Hey Scarlett, Texas is cool. I love my governor. Now, I know where I get my idears from.

Regarding the kiddos. It's just that hair get in the way when reading their phonics books

they followed me with a police guard dog as protection.

I am in HOLLYWOOD CALIFORNIA
USA

Hi Vanity, I'm very familiar w/ LAPD. Me and a couple of buddies, after partying in Hollywood(oops,I meant Hollyweed), would head back to Pomona on 10 and would outrun the police chopper on our bikes. Talk about an adrenalin rush. I had a (gsx?) Suzuki at the time. I just remember the speedo at 140 and lost my buzz. I know, I know. I was a stupid kid.

[Amanda M]

Macada10 - you are quite right - Scottish people ARE crazy. About liberty and civil rights. Google "Scots wha hae"

Trust me nothing has changed in the last 800 years.

At least it will be easy to identify the two officers concerned - they are the ones with grazed knuckles from dragging on the ground.

[Michaella]

This is utterly disgusting. "Provoking a reaction?" I would contact a lawyer, so you know your rights in advance.

Michaella

[Alison1842]

Under eu law i think you could rightly sue there pants off. They discriminated against you in a sexual way + made threats. Telling you they would not protect you if involved in a situation is bullshit. Here in England the IPCC would eat them for dinner on that one. A police officers task is to uphold law and order, failing to do that based on any discriminatory grounds is professional misconduct in a public office. If you are indeed cd- early stage transexual it is sexual discrimination, eu law has your back on that one, even scotland is not above that yet!

As to there threats, its akin to them standing there and telling you if you murdered some one they would knick you for it. But to use that in a threatening manner is well out of line.

This exact kinda crap is why i have a in car camera and video recording. Traffic police will go after damn near anything these days. I take great delight in pissing them off - disappointing them. Equally in a crash it could be the one thing that saves my bacon on the legal side. Should not need to, but thats the kinda crap level this country has fallen too.

Of course doing anything about this, especially keeping it private is not easy, there should be a way though. Under the freedom of information act you can request to see any info held on you, this could well be all you need to collaborate your story and really go after them. You won't be black listed,