A knee in the crotch, a fist in the face? Gosh I love it when you´re all masterful.......
A knee in the crotch, a fist in the face? Gosh I love it when you´re all masterful.......
If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!
BillieAnne deserved her position? What happened to BillieAnne? I just thought the guy came on to her. Good Lord ... guys come on to girls all the time.Originally Posted by heatherdress
But again, someone above mentioned that the man in question might have come on to BillieAnne specifically if he read her (him). Sad to say, but lots of admirers troll night club scenes too, and it's gonna happen. The best way to handle all that is to just say no, and move on. That's what I always did. No need to get in an uproar about it. Or, don't hang out in places where this sort of stuff happens. Either way.
For the record, I was more likely to have guys come on to me at night, when I was wearing something sexy, than on Saturday morning when I was making a quick run to the Grocery store wearing flannel pants.
Reine
I can't speak for Reine and I am absolutely against ever asking someone what they were wearing in connection with being harassed or assaulted.
The reality is that if you are female and you dress (well almost any way depending on your body type, age and where you are going), but especially if you dress in a way that is perceived as "sexy" men will hit on you. Some will do it respectfully and some will do it as if they already own a right to your body somehow. It will happen. I don't believe that it's right, or acceptable but it is reality.
So asking what were you wearing could lead to a discussion of the reality of what that may bring without in any way saying what it will bring is ok. I'm not sure if that is where Reine was going but there is a valid point there. I wouldn't address it with clothing to a girlfriend but I have with being out alone at night. I did a reality check about where she would be and when because it was not safe for her to be there. It doesn't mean in any way that it would be her fault if she were attacked, but it is the reality of being a woman in our world that you have to think about these things.
And if you present as a woman YOU need to think of them as well. If getting hit on makes you want to punch people, then my advice is don't dress even remotely attractively. If you go out as a woman you need to think of safety at least as much as a GG and you need to be prepared to be treated like you owe men on the street some of your time and attention(and they expect more the more "sexy" you are dressed) not because it's acceptable that you be treated like that but because that is what we still have to fix about our society.
This is one of my favorite recent blogs. It talks about this http://disruptingdinnerparties.com/2...8/queen-bitch/
Erin
I wear the sassypants in the family.
“The greatest obstacle to connecting
with our joy is resentment.”
~ Pema Chödrön ~
A Guide to Overcoming Envy
Thanks for the reinforcement.
And further, judging by all the well attended threads about CDers wanting men when they're dressed, I dare say that a good number of our membership go out expressly dressed to get noticed by men.
I would not ask a GG what she was wearing under similar circumstances, because we tend to know the ropes about such things. But, if this was among the OP's first times out, he or she may not be aware that some looks attract more attention than others. And a genetic male who goes out looking like a well endowed female, cannot expect to be treated the same as he would be if he were not CDing.
Reine
Wow! I am speechless! This is one of the greatest posts I have ever seen on this site, and I have to say, you are the BEST!
Lisa
Lisa, you'd be surprised at some people's expectations. What seems obvious to you may not be to someone else and sometimes it is helpful to spell things out.
Reine
Hi Billie
I'm on the same page there girl. I was outside Pub 43 one time having a cigarette and a street person came up to me and wanted to play with my boobs. I just humored him and had a few laughs. Actually it was kind of a fun experience. It could of got out of hand. But it didn't. I just laughed it off. I guess, if you dress like a girl, you will get treated like a girl. Good or bad. Daviolin
[SIZE="6"]
[/SIZE]
A CD AND HIS WARDROBE, ITS A BEAUTIFUL THING.
Hi Billie, You do make a striking photo , No pun intended .
Having my ears triple pierced is AWESOME, ~~......
I can explain it to you, But I can't comprehend it for you !
If at first you don't succeed, Then Skydiving isn't for you.
Be careful what you wish for, Once you ring a bell , you just can't Un-Ring it !! !!
Way to go billie I feel U handle it good! Hugs Donna1391
Reine;
I do agree with you whole heatedly, It's hard to get across in writing the tone of what i was saying, it was more like Colbert "Oh NOooooooooo , you don't mean to say ........"
People wear clothes at times to attract attention, display how they feel about themselves as a person, if that were not so we would all be wearing saffron robes made of beaten flax.
Billie,
Thanks for your reply to my note; I am sorry if I offended you. I respect that you had the fortitude and capacity to overcome your life challenges, but it does not mean you know anyone’s life experiences. When I refer to you being privileged, I am referring to your ethnicity of being white male, which through history has been privileged in the western world. In your reply, you express a lot of empathy, but there is a lack of empathy when you propose violence.
Please take care,
Patti
Last edited by patti.jean; 08-09-2013 at 11:22 AM.
It's not about gender it's about fashion www.flickr.com/photos/9438546@N08/sets
Patti,
Where does it say I proposed violence? I merely said I could have.
We all are capable of violence. Those with empathy have the capacity but refuse to do so.
You again misjudge me.
All based on your profiling.
I was in an uncomfortable situation and chose non violence as a solution. Please profile off of that.
Billie
So happy things settled down and the confrontation did not escalate for you. I have to believe it would have been a pretty big shock to the d*** head if you had to best him in fisticuffs.
As I have mentioned in other threads about heels, they are just another tool in one's self defense arsenal. I actually teach how and where to apply them in my self defense courses for women.
You rock sister.
Hugs, Robin
As PattiJean alluded to, Division goes north and south. I'm glad there are responses from those more familiar with this area than I am as it's been a while since I've been there. But, the history of this area does include prostitution. I don't know if that's changed or not, but I'm thinking it's an important factor here no matter how you were dressed.
BillieAnn, this was nothing more than your fight or flight mechanism kicking in which is completely normal. In the end you chose to flee which was a good decision, but we must be prepared for the other response if necessary.
In my locale, even if you were propositioned for sex, you'd be fighting a charge of four degree assault. You did the right thing not to initiate a physical fight. When I was younger, a lot younger, I was propositioned in less than flattering terms for oral sex while commuting to work on the subway in NYC. Should I have punched beat the crap out of him?
This may or may not help, but my SO has gone out A LOT in the last seven years or so, alone and with me. S/he tends to dress in a sexier manner for evenings in night clubs (as I do), and wears jeans or slacks and cute tops during the daytime when out for lunch, to coffee shops, or doing errands. The admirers that gather in or around night clubs do come onto her at night, and obviously not during the day in the mainstream since this is not where they look to hook up. Being approached also made her feel uncomfortable. We don't go out to nightclubs so much anymore and really there is no need to, since now she feels comfortable going just about everywhere in the mainstream. Once in a while we'll go see a drag show but when she is with me there is less chance of her being propositioned. It did happen once though, years ago. An admirer sent her a note written on a napkin while we were both sitting at the bar. This was my first exposure to admirers and my eyes were opened big time.
So you might want to go out more during the daytime and stay away from night clubs, if being propositioned makes you feel too uncomfortable?
Last edited by ReineD; 08-09-2013 at 11:19 AM.
Reine
Empathy is the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. It is not after the fact expressing what violence you withheld.
This area of Grand Rapids like many cities does have a history of prostitution, but it is ancient history and is no reflection of what the area is like today. I do not want to leave anyone with a bad impression of Grand Rapids or this area.
Patti
It's not about gender it's about fashion www.flickr.com/photos/9438546@N08/sets
Don't worry Sweetie, We all have our own area in our own towns that we would like too just put a tarp over when visitors come.
Boy do you not know Reine. She never said the OP DESERVED anything. She was making the point that someone in 6" heels and a 4" skirt is going to get asked something by men. You send out vibes or signals. The OP was alone in a section of town where people who have questionable social skills hang out. In a perfect wold this would not be an issue. However, when you put yourself in a situation, you need to be cognizant of that. In this case the OP was lucky is was only a creep and not a creepy deviant murderer.
The GGs here have all had to learn to deal with that and they KNOW that the easiest way to not have to deal with it s Don't be alone and don't go in areas like that (alone or otherwise usually). When one swims with sharks, one should expect to be eaten.
Clothing aside, I think the main issue here is making yourself a target by being alone. Oh and I don't care how big and macho you are, in heels and a skirt, you will get taken down quickly. It only takes 3 seconds to have someone get the advantage on you.
And c'mon people you know what the OP meant by "ethnic".
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
A homeless Guy?
A simple assertive sounding No was not enough?
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. Mark Twain
Hookers don't wear flats and granny dresses.
REALITY 101.
How do we know your really who you think you are?
thanks for sharing, BTW nice look
Carpe Noctem
Cheyenne Hyde
"You may never exceed, your own expectations, of yourself"
http://s46.photobucket.com/user/MsHyde2u/library/
(the password is feminine)
Yeah we will go with that...
Ummm...what do hookers wear. I am sure vice would like that list so they would not have to work so hard. Have you seen hookers? Maybe Denver is different but here they wear jeans and top with sneakers....we are a little laid back though. Most hookers don't dress like in the movies and most you would never give a second look to.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Patti,
Actually I withheld violence at the EXACT time of the incident because I prefer to avoid violence any time, regardless of the appearance of the initiating person. That was hardly after the fact as you accuse. Even Jesus Christ could have smashed anyone that he wanted to but he witheld retribution at the EXACT moment of the incidents. Would you chriticize him? A man can be verbally or physically attacked by a woman but even though he has the obviously greater physical force, a good man witholds violence. Would you judge that man negatively also? To please you, is it necessary to take a nonviolent attitude in anticipation of an incident, thereby guaranteeing that the witholding of violence preceeds the incident? That would be profiling. But if not, then everything occurs after the offence. That would be profiling. It seems like no matter what I did or did not do, as long as I was in your beloved Grand Rapids, and as long as something less than optimum happened, and if I record it here, I am a bad person, and you are going to say so on this forum.
You will also note that I find it better to avoid character denunciations on any forum, or anywhere.
Grand Rapids is a great place but it would be better to just make that known than to accuse me of being anything at all unless you do it to my face and not in a public forum. That is just plain impolite.
I had hoped you would realize your error but you persist in smearing me.
This is tiring.
We may run in to each other some time in the future as we are both from the same area. Rather than have a confrontation where you expound on my character faults I have a solution:
You win. I accept your judgements that I am a horrible person. I should have called you immediately so you could tell me what to do as the words came out of his mouth, so it wasn't after the fact.
Billie
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