Have I missed something?Originally Posted by steph1964
Are you married?
If so, then everything changes ....
Have I missed something?
Are you married?
If so, then everything changes ....
I am separated from my wife but we aren't divorced yet, and we are very close. She is dating someone else.
Last edited by Rianna Humble; 09-05-2013 at 05:17 PM. Reason: Please do not quote the entire preceding post just to add 1 line
What makes me uncomfortable sometimes is when I meet someone and they assume I plan to transition, when I do not.
But you are very cute, cuteness trumps all!
Nonsense. She's a big girl and she can make big girl decisions. I started dating my current boyfriend when I was a month or so into my RLE and after a year and a half we couldn't be happier.
Yes, and transition relies heavily on successfully navigating Real Life Experiences. Personal relationships are real life. If she's so inclined, then it's game on!
OK, you're leaving us hanging. This guy, who finds you to be an attractive woman, now knows you're trans and is at least accepting enough not to have gotten ugly with you about the discovery.
Is he OK with dating a pre-op trans woman? Are you going to see him again? If so, that would be great!
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.
Let's face it, we are all different with different needs, wants and desires. Who is to say, judge or determine what is right and what is wrong, we can only make these determinations for ourselves. Personally, I have been hetro my entire life and now that I am in transition, have been on HRT for 8 months and 2 months into my RLE I find no change in my orientation.
That's right, I am still hetro and I now find myself attracted to men. I have been out on several dates and find that, like us, no two men are alike. They differ in their ability to accept us, their level of acceptance of us and if they do accept, how they treat us once our little secret is discovered. IMHO, not to date is to not move forward. As previously mentioned, dating is part of the RLE and needs to be experienced. My dating experiences, which have been strictly with men, have been a mixed bag. Several relationships were short lived, one very short lived, a couple did not end pleasantly but one is still alive and well.
My point is this, it only takes one date with one man to create the right chemistry to build a relationship. Maybe I am a dreamer, of just plain foolish, but I look forward to, and so badly desire, to settle down with the right gentlemen and possible even marry.
Nicole, I would add that the attitude of almost any guy (or gal) you date can evolve or time. A "totally straight" guy who is dating a tgirl can have changes of heart about how intimate the relationship can become. And sometimes the attitudes of their friends and family can create obstacles.
That is all beyond the first date stage, which is supposed to be fun!
Well, actually I agree with some of what you have said Lexi, but not quite all of it. First, what would a "strictly straight" guy have to do with me, or any of us for that matter, if he knew we were trans? Any guy that is interested on one of us, knowing our little secret, cannot be "strictly straight".
I can agree if he has no idea that the lady holding his interest is actually trans. Determining if he is straight or not can be determines by his actions once he discovers that the lovely lady he is infatuated with is actually trans... I also agree that these issues are usually not associated with a first date and usually only surface after several dates have been shared.
That's absurd, and a remarkably uneducated statement. Why would you say such a thing?
Being gay has nothing to do with the plumbing that your partner has. The word "homosexual" is derived from the Greek prefix meaning "same". The only way that a straight man would not be interested in a trans woman is if he saw her as a man. And if, as we assert, we are actually women with (as we tend to describe it) a birth defect, then there's no issue with a straight man wanting a trans woman unless he's merely transphobic (but not gay). Or unless he just prefers genetic women but is not necessarily transphobic. But being straight is not the deal breaker here.
A gay man has absolutely no interest in us. So if a guy is not "strictly straight" then what is he? Is he also not "strictly gay" either?
Please try not to project your own prejudices onto someone else's relationship.
Last edited by Michelle.M; 09-09-2013 at 10:04 PM. Reason: Unnecessary criticism
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.
Michelle, to be honest, there are hetero men who do not take kindly to being told their girlfriend or wife's history as a genetic male. And these same men would not be interested if they knew from the onset. There's a current thread in the Media section on the topic.
Hopefully there's a spectrum to everything, which means that a post-op's physical origins would not matter to some straight males. But I've no idea if they would be the minority, the majority, or if it is closer to 50/50.
I totally agree that gay men are not interested in women, whether they are genetic or not.
And then there are the men who are interested pre-op but not post, which in my opinion is deplorable.
Reine
I get that, but that's not what we're talking about here. Nicole's comment was
You're referring to men making some sort of belated or unexpected discovery and reacting adversely. Entirely different from Nicole's statement, wherein she's saying that the sexual orientation of any man who would want a trans woman is suspect.
That's antiquated thinking and, quite frankly, a bit cissexist.
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.
I agree that men who feel this way are sissexist. This is as deplorable as the men who drop a TS after transition.
As to Nicole's comment, I agree that she is not saying the same thing I said, but I was not addressing her comment. I was rather addressing what you said, "But being straight is not the deal breaker here" and was pointing out that sometimes it is. But is it necessarily caused by transphobia, or would the men who do not want to be in relationships with transwomen be able to be their friend otherwise? Admittedly there are no statistics on this and there's no telling what percentage of straight men would have issues vs. those who would not. Pointing this out does not mean that I agree with it. I hate the way that transwomen and post-op women are viewed by many people who are not familiar with the concept of transsexualism.
Reine
When I said that I was referring to Nicole's comment as being cissexist.
No, and that's only true if you regard trans women as actually being men.
Let's review. Why would a man not want to be with a trans woman?
1. He prefers genetic women.
No harm done. We all have our dating preferences.
2. He's transphobic.
But one can be transphobic and straight OR transphobic and gay. So Nicole's comment about suspect sexual orientation doesn't apply here.
3. He IS gay.
Stands to reason that if he's interested in men he's barking up the wrong tree here. So, Nicole's comment about suspect sexual orientation STILL doesn't apply.
If a man is NOT transphobic, NOT particularly fixed on preference for a certain type of woman and NOT gay then a trans woman is just another woman in the dating pool. The only real deal breaker is incompatibility, just as it would be with any other woman.
About half the trans people I know are in some sort of relationship. One trans woman is involved with a trans man, another trans man is with a genetic woman, of the remaining trans women about 40% are transbians and are mostly with genetic women ( a few are with trans women) and the rest are straight trans women and are all with straight genetic men (3 of them were married to their husbands while they were still pre-op; two of them have since had GRS). My boyfriend (straight, BTW) has a friend whose son is a trans man and the son is not currently dating, but anticipates that when he does he'll probably date men.
That trans guy and his future BF would be the only gay men in my circle of trans folks.
Last edited by Michelle.M; 09-08-2013 at 08:33 PM.
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.
I don't see transwomen as being men. I do see you for who you are.
Your review point #2, transphobic: I suppose it depends on how far we take transphobia. I was saying that some straight men who would not be considered transphobic meaning they do not have a general bias against transwomen, would not be sexually attracted to them because of their chromosomal status. There are stories about this in the Media section and I'm sure untold stories elsewhere.
I'm glad that you do not see any evidence of this among your friends.
Reine
Still transphobic. When was the last time you ever heard anyone say "Wow, check out the karyotype on THAT one! Have you ever seen 23 pairs of chromosomes arranged quite like that?"
Anyone who claims to have a problem with genetic history as it pertains to the authenticity of someone's gender is only trying to legitimize their transphobia by making it sound scientific.
Look, this is not that difficult to grasp.
If a straight man has a problem being with a [insert your preferred description] then it's because he perceives that [insert your preferred description] to also be a man, and thus assumes that this would be a homosexual relationship.
THAT is the fundamental issue! If the trans woman is regarded as legitimately a woman then Nicole's claim that any guy that is interested on one of us, knowing our little secret, cannot be "strictly straight" is nonsense. If she's a woman then he's straight.
Otherwise, this puts the burden for maintaining the cissexual norm on the trans woman instead of regarding the guy as just another straight man who loves someone irrespective of her birth defect. Just because she has an unusual life history she does not become less of a woman than a genetic woman.
Last edited by Michelle.M; 09-08-2013 at 09:14 PM.
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.
Logically, of course you are correct!
Reine
Sums it up perfectly.
It SURE is my hair ! I have the receipt and the box it came in !
Just to set the record straight, I was referring to a man who self-identifies as "totally straight" but is now in an emotional and physical relationship with someone who is not legally female. And it has been an adjustment for him, and relatives particularly have made it more difficult.
It appears that my comment about being "strictly straight" really got your hair in a puff Michelle. Perhaps had you asked, or inquired about the statement I made rather than jumping on it you might have realized what i was trying to indicate. This is not the first time that you have pounced on one of my statements, and while I will always appreciate an open and honest discussion on any topic, I do, and must object to the tone of your reply. I totally understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the tone that is used to express that opinion does not really need to be negative or condescending and that is how I read your reply as being.
My statements were actually based on a conversation I had while spending an evening with several friends. Davis is openly gay and was there with his husband. Jeff was there with his wife Beverly and I was the unaccompanied by anyone. Since my friends have all known me prior to my becoming Nicole I feel totally comfortable in discussing just about any topic with them. Thus, I asked their thoughts on the term strictly straight and how it relates to dating a TS. They all agreed that they could understand a straight guy being interested in a TS, but that when a guy labels himself as "strictly straight" he moves into a different category. This is what my comments and statement were based on, and i believe them to be as true and accurate as anything you have stated. In other words, you have your opinion and I have mine. Both are correct and both are incorrect, based upon who is reading and interrupting them.
I have tried taking the so called high road in this reply and tried not to get personal or be attacking. I sincerely appreciate your opinion and will always be open to a healthy discussion, all I ask is that you please turn the flame down a little bit on you replies. You can make your point, and disagree with someone without making them feel the way your reply to my post made me feel.
Last edited by Nicole Brown; 09-09-2013 at 09:33 AM.
I think you should go ahead and get that out of the way before you go out with him. Give him the opportunity to mull that over in his head. I may be cool with it and then again he might be enraged because you "tricked" him. Tell him as soon as possible before the date. Just my two pennies
I like what you wrote here. I am naive as to what RLE means (real life experience?) but I have been living my life as a woman full-time for 16 months. I started dating men about the time I began my transition. I found most men just wanted to fullfill a sex fantasy. I did have something with one man that lasted a couple of months, but with the exception of one "real" date, in the end it became clear sex was all he wanted too. Now I have a boyfriend who's CD. That seems to be working pretty good so far. In fact it's gotten pretty serious and now we live together. I think him being CD made it easier for both of us, but love developed for us very quickly and I think that's the key to it. When two people fall in-love, it changes everything. Suddenly sexual orientation is out the window. He sees himself as being a "straight" guy, attracted to and desiring women; yet here we are in this intimate relationship and I'm still pre-op. I consider myself mostly a heterosexual woman now. My feelings of sexual attraction have dramatically changed since starting HRT. I've heard of this happening to some TS girls. I know I'm not the only one that's had this experience. Now I'm thinking that when I get my SRS (changing my birth-certificate and DL to female) we will be able to legally marry. Two years ago the thought of being married to a man was the furtherest thing from my mind. It's amazing to me what this whole transition including HRT have done to me! Sometimes I even get a little "freaked out" about it.
Paulette
Thank you so much for your lovely comment on my post Paulette, it brought a little sunshine into an otherwise somewhat upsetting day. I totally understand what you are saying and how you feel, these darn hormones are throwing my emotions for a loop also. Love is one of the things that truly makes life worth living and who is to say what is right or wrong in a personal loving relationship. To each his/her own is a wonderful little statement that really says it all.
I am so happy that you have found true love and a person who you care enough about that you want to marry them and spend the rest of your life with them. I hope to be fortunate enough to find a similar relationship with as wonderful a person as you have found.
And yes, you are correct about the definition of REL meaning the one year test we must go through prior to GRS.
after reading the update, you don't say what he thought about your two appearances? It sounds like he wasn't driven away, but you didn't give him your phone number either. I carry cards, two different ones, both with my email address and one has my cell number. I decide which to give out. It isn't always good either way though. The last guy was an inte4rnet stalker who followed breadcrumbs back to my male persona...and still wanted to date (but hen, he train wreck...which is a whole nuther story). If you like him and he is still interested, then go for it. Carpe diem
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
I have no time for the term transphobia. If you are in transition and still have your penis, it's not transphobia it's homophobia. I think Kaitelyn's comment about it possibly being too early is directed at the potential exposure to homophobia and it's attendant dangers. Quite frankly, most straight guys don't like to play with penises. It would not be a far stretch to characterize this as a homosexual relationship at that stage. Experiencing a woman with a penis is a hard thing to crack for straight guys. And no argument or logic will prevent those thoughts from arising.
If the guy loves the woman and is willing to wait around until SRS is completed then that's wonderful. But if the guys on discovering that she is not quite a woman yet takes his leave it's not transphobia or for that matter homophobia. My spouse and I are blissfully married to each other but neither one of us has a same sex orientation. Is that transphobia, homophobia or whatever phobia? There is a tendency in trans circles to call everything under the sun transphobic, like for instance "women have vaginas".
"Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)
As it should be. Those who become involved with us, as friends, boyfriends, or whatever become partners in our journey. It stands to reason that there will be adjustment issues. How sad that his relatives are mucking this up for him, but I do believe that if he can hang in there he'll find that it's worth the effort.
So educate me, please. What is the difference between "straight' and "strictly straight"? And what sort of category does he move into?
I cannot believe you said that! What you are implying is that a trans woman is still a man until she loses her penis.
I hate to burst your bubble, but gender identity is not dependent on the presence or absence of a body part, and there's nothing magical about GRS that suddenly turns a man into a woman.
It's homophobia if that possibly homophobic man thinks he is dealing with another man, whether that man has a penis or not. If we cite homophobia simply because the trans woman still has her penis then he sees her as a man and not a woman. Denying her self-identified gender (in this case, based on physical attributes) falls under the description of transphobia.
Sorry that you have no time for the term transphobia, but it's a valid term and it exists for a reason.
I get that. A man, for whatever reason, can exercise his preference to have only one penis in a relationship. Likewise, a man can elect not to date a single mother, or someone with a chronic illness, or a smoker. It's called preference. No harm done.
We would characterize this as a homosexual relationship not simply because there's a penis but because he perceives his date to be a man. Two different concepts; having a penis does not affect gender identity.
Oh, no doubt! And a guy has no obligation to accept that! See my earlier comment about preferences in dating.
Yes . . .
Crikey, what a marvelously shining example of cissexism! "Not quite a woman"? Too bad so many here still have their original plumbing, 'cuz you just delivered a masterful nut-kick!
None of the above. You get to define your own relationship.
But others, as you have so deftly explained, are "not quite a woman".
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.
Well Steph, how are things going w/ your "new" boyfriend? Inquiring minds want too know
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