Originally Posted by Michelle.M
You know something, I would, except you would most probably just argue with that also, so why bother.
You know something, I would, except you would most probably just argue with that also, so why bother.
In your earlier post you said that a man who would be interested in a trans woman could not be "strictly straight" and then in your last post you differentiated between "straight" and "strictly straight" and explained that when a guy labels himself as "strictly straight" he moves into a different category.
I'm sure that I'm not the only person here who is hearing these terms for the first time, and I'm sure others would be interested in knowing what "strictly straight" means and what that other category is.
If you don't care to explain that's up to you, but my asking an honest question does not automatically make me argumentative. My argument arose from your previous implication that a man who is interested in a trans woman may in fact not be straight.
If he's not straight then that means the trans woman is perceived to not be a woman. THAT is what I have an argument with.
I'm asking you to clarify and to help move the discussion forward. Or not. Your call.
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.
strictly straight is a strange terminology...
straight guys go out with women..
ts women are women...
by adding strictly you are hinting that some guys who are NOT "Strictly straight" go out with us because of our maleness...our exotic nature... that we are not women, we are something more(chic with something extra!!) or less(omg you used to be a dude)
its a casual inartful term at best...and you can see the reaction it caused..
its not rocket science that some straight guys freak out about us because they cannot internally process the reality of our situation...they can't get past it..
and I repeat, if you have a penis, 9 out of 10 your boyfriend is after it, and post surgery you are out of there...
Nicole,
From a male POV this reduces to:
Straight and accepts trans women as women.
Straight and does not accept trans women as women.
You can qualify the above six ways to Sunday ... e.g., "true women," "in the same way," etc. It amounts to the same thing.
From a trans POV "strictly" sounds suspiciously like "really."
Hearing a trans woman express all this on behalf of the male population comes across to me as buying into it. I wouldn't necessarily go there on the basis of the first post alone, but when you doubled down on the concept, I find it hard to conclude otherwise. And I agree with Michelle that this implication is what triggered the reaction.
Lea
I believe you are going about this the wrong way. Dating with a view to a physical relationship is seriously hampered by the presence of a penis and if you have a straight guy then with respect it is sometimes difficult to keep a straight face when a claim is made that you are a woman. Don't get me wrong, it does not mean you that are not, it means that by all measures used by straight guys to determine what gender you are a penis is a signpost (pun intended). It's presence raises serious issues as to, uhm what to do with it. Because with all due respect a five inch neoclit is, uhmmm, sorry .....
Until surgery no matter how much of a woman you are you still are living with your birth defect, and for straight guys this is mostly gross.
And Michelle, gender identity is not so much a problem for transsexuals. It's the defective body that is.
Last edited by Kathryn Martin; 09-10-2013 at 11:07 AM.
"Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)
* sigh *
Kathryn, what is with this obsession with genitalia? How is it that you can't seem to understand that sexual orientation doesn't really have much to do with plumbing (or am I misreading you)? And no, it's not at all difficult to state with certainty that one is a woman, albeit with a penis.
Yes, straight guys tend to get squeamish when their dates have penises, and "what to do about it" is a challenge. But there are many, many straight couples, wherein one is trans, who seem to be doing just fine and enjoying a healthy, heterosexual relationship irrespective of plumbing.
It's just not any more of an issue than we make it.
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.
I'm not sure what sexual orientation is about if its not at lease partially to do with the plumbing...
I think a lot of this conversation is influenced by personal experience... I have a lot of trans friends..i dated both before and after surgery...it is the darkest night vs the lightest day..they are not comparable situations.
One "Straight" guy I dated literally begged me for one more date (ie sex) PRIOR to my surgery..."cmon its my last chance"..UGH!!!
Show me a straight guy that likes touching penises and i'll show you a bisexual/gay guy...
You assert Michelle that there are many MANY straight couples where one is trans with a penis...how many??
Anything is possible...I'm certain that there are great guys out there that look past the birth defect...there are not many many of them...
the spectrum of human sexuality and feelings about it is infinitely variable.. no one can know for sure why some guy digs you...no one can no for sure whether he'll leave after srs...
I can say though that ALL there guys I dated pre surgery have no interest in me...and they are not dating other pre-op women (or crossdressers)...
and that is consistent with my post op friends experience...
You said "It's just not any more of an issue than we make it"...
I'm not making this issue up Michelle.
..as you like to say "that's absurd"
Dunno, but including me I know a half dozen (although 3 of them have since had GRS).
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.
It's funny – I didn't interpret the original "problematic" comment with Pre-Op versus Post-Op status. That's even considering the "our little secret" bit. So the plumbing point was irrelevant to my response.
That said, I tend to agree with Kaitlyn that a guy's heterosexual attraction is more of a theoretical possibility. That is, the initial attraction is real… but I would expect that it is with the unexamined, unthinking assumption that the person he is attracted to is a GG. The theoretical possibility applies the few who would be unfazed by the subsequent disclosure. My guess – and it's only a guess – is that there might be a few more unfazed by a Post-Op than a Pre-Op, but still a small minority.
But what do I know? I've only experienced this once, briefly. And *I*was the one who was surprised ...
Lea
Women have no penis unless they have a birth defect. Sexual orientation can be heterosexual or same sex attraction. For transsexuals it's all about sex and not about gender. There are straight heterosexual couples one of whom has a vagina and one of whom has a penis. That by all accounts defines a hetero sexual attraction. Same sex attraction is between persons who are of the same sex (not gender).
If you have a couple with same sex plumbing that is being enjoyed between them, they are not heterosexual.
This is not an issue that we make. It is an issue because it is out there. I have no interest in men who want to boink a tranny because they think it's kinky or something. The heterosexual men I have encountered who love my pre-op friends are not homosexual and cannot possibly wait until the surgery is done. They are very circumspect around the plumbing because they are not homosexual. It is their sacrifice.
There is a huge sexual orientation aspect to trans women, because with all due respect that is what gets the windmill of everyone's mind going. Even post op if you are not experienced and witnessed as a woman first (before you disclose) then there are potential issues that can be very hurtful. This is practical advice not some philosophical discussion.
"Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)
Sorry, I can't support anything you've said here. I respect your right to your opinion, but your perspective is extremely limited and too narrowly-focused for us to have dialog on this.
Let's agree to disagree.
I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.
Fair enough, I just think it is incredibly important to be very practical about these things. No amount "what should be right" can overcome a straight guy's experience when the penis is two inches away from his face and he has to do something with it. Same with a heterosexual women which is faced with a vagina. That is why some people prefer keeping their penis during transition because the alternative could mean that intimacy goes out the window, which may or may not affect the relationship.
The OP is faced with these kind of aspects and decisions.
"Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)
This thread has been taken so far off topic that it is now closed.
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