Fakers, False Identities, Pretenders et al.

[Debglam]

I guess I should preface this by saying that I am not calling anyone out or asking for comments on any specific individual. I see this as a phenomenon on other forums also and am frankly baffled by it. No less a trans* activist than Andrea James is investigating this HERE. I understand con artists, bullshitters, and people simply puffing themselves up a little. Hey, nobody in their right mind is going to post a photo of themselves looking like the sea hag! But seriously, I just can’t understand why someone would go to the trouble to completely create a false persona pretending to be trans*. Why? To what end? Are we really that cool?

Personally, I don’t consider being trans* to be all bad but in a way it seems to me that it is like creating a false identity on a cancer patient site. Why?

[Kelly DeWinter]

Interesting Topic;

Who knows why people do what they do. Why do people steal anything ? I lump it in the same category of Bernie Maddof, He could not steal the billions he did with out creating false companies and identities. He did it out of greed, to gain something others had . There may be people who want to be trans so bad they assume the identities of someone else who has made the transition. Lot at the show Catfish, where people assume identities because they have a low self esteem.

In the end it's usually greed is some form:

Here is an example

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs...opstories.html

[Tamara Croft]

Oh they do and it's a shame, we've had one in particular here, fooled everyone into thinking she was something she wasn't... I've known for a while about her, but I didn't know how deep she'd befriended some people, had I known that, I'd have done something about it.

[whowhatwhen]

Oh come on, you can't just say that without more details!

Still, no one here can verify anything about anyone unless you've met IRL.
Either way it doesn't matter, people here are quick as hell to sniff out stuff anyway so it's kind of self-regulating I guess.

[stefan37]

Guess you didn't get the memo. Being trans gets you membership into a secret society with a secret membership card with fabulous membership benefits.

[Debglam]

And to prove my point, I am on Facebook as we speak on the "I'm Transgender and Proud" page no less. They have a thing going where they will post a photo of a trans person with a little bio. It is kind of nice to see trans* people all over the globe simply being who they are. A photo pops up of a lovely woman who claims she transitioned 8 years ago and the comments are filling up with other women lamenting that their transitions haven't been going as well and how they wish they were that pretty! A friend explained to me how the reverse search on Google Images works so I checked her photo. It comes up with a match on the web page of a female actress who does not appear to be trans. Given that it could be a stage name versus real name issue, I contacted the mods to have them check. If this "woman" is a fake, her post is making real life trans people feel like shit. Again, to what end??? Maybe Kelly is right and it is some sort of low self esteem thing?

[stefan37]

There is romanticism for an individual to fantasize about being a woman. They can not get their fix from guys talking about panties and breast forms. They want to hear and comment on people that are undergoing real physical change.

I have no idea really why people do what they do. I get a pretty good sense of who is authentic and who is not. I would be suspicious if those that breeze through their transitions pass always and live such a glorious life.

The reality is we all have losses, turmoil and appearance issues at some point. This is no easy free ride.
Regardless of what the posers think it is. Think it is great to have a vagina. Think how much fun it is to dilate 5-6 times daily 20 min for 2 months. Sounds like fun sign me up.

[Inna]

I think it is simply called "self delusion" and it proves to me, that without it, transition would not be possible. Now some do go overboard, and simply pretend or make others believe they are not who they really are.
On the other hand, for me, if I didn't see the beautiful girl on the other side of the mirror, i would have never set out on this impossible journey to begin with, because after all, I have never dreamed of being a Transanything, but simply a pretty girl amongst the world.

[docrobbysherry]

Well said, Inna. It's nice if someone else thinks Sherry is pretty. But, if I didn't see a pretty woman in my mirror and pics, I'm pretty sure I would never have even looked for cd sites like this one!

Maybe this would help explain other "fake" trans? The vision in their mind of themselves is as attractive women. But, the view in their mirrors is quite the opposite. So, they do the next best thing. Pretending on line to be that pretty girl?

[Eryn]

From the birth of the Internet there have been people who derived pleasure from inserting themselves into subject-specific groups and wreaking havoc. Back before webforums there were mailing lists and Usenet and crafty people would join a group, create a backstory, and then gradually their posts would become more and more off-the wall. Less creative people would simply pop up on rec.pets.cats and post a recipe. That's where the term "Don't feed the trolls!" became popular. People whose only interest was trolling got together and planned attacks. These groups and dedicated individuals pretty much ruined Usenet since it was difficult to moderate them out.

With web forums, trolls have to be a bit more stealthy. If they are found out they can be banned which puts them back to square one. This doesn't discourage them, though, because they have no real vested interest in the forum they attack any more than a graffiti vandal has a vested interest in a particular wall.

One other personality does need to be addressed. There are people who through disability aren't able to actually do the things they talk about. They dream it, they want it, but they cannot do it so they live their fantasies out here on the 'web. This is actually a healthy release for them and doesn't hurt the community at all so I have no problem with folks of this type.

[Debglam]

Well said, Inna. . . Maybe this would help explain other "fake" trans? The vision in their mind of themselves is as attractive women. But, the view in their mirrors is quite the opposite. So, they do the next best thing. Pretending on line to be that pretty girl?

Inna and Sherry, I agree and think that is a separate thing though. Heck, I don't even think using "dream" avatars and profile pics is bad if it is clear that is what you are doing.

One other personality does need to be addressed. There are people who through disability aren't able to actually do the things they talk about. They dream it, they want it, but they cannot do it so they live their fantasies out here on the 'web. This is actually a healthy release for them and doesn't hurt the community at all so I have no problem with folks of this type.

I think this may be close to the mark Eryn but I do think a line needs to be drawn. What becomes a problem is when these people's fantasy starts to involve real people with real problems. Individuals like this giving advice on how to come out, SRS, transition, etc., and they have done none of it. The real people are hurt by this.

It turns out that the mods busted the person I was referring to on Facebook. Real women with real problems lamenting THEIR real transition against someone posting a fake photo and talking about their easy transition. Sad and infuriating at the same time.

[Aprilrain]

There are people who through disability aren't able to actually do the things they talk about. They dream it, they want it, but they cannot do it so they live their fantasies out here on the 'web. This is actually a healthy release for them and doesn't hurt the community at all so I have no problem with folks of this type.

I have to disagree. I don't care what your situation is, lying is lying. We had one particular member here who had it all, she was young, beautiful, rich and married with perfect children. She awed and subsequently befriended many people including me. It often made me feel bad about myself (at first) because I knew I'd never be able to be all that. She had the ultimate TS success story and people looked up to her as someone who had "done it"! It was all a fraud. Why should we tolerate someone who puts themselves out there as a success when in all likelyhood they haven't done shit? While I have sympathy for those who can not transition for whatever reason, I do not think that gives you the right to fabricate a life for yourself. Maybe it dosen't really matter over on the CD side of the site where it's pretty much all fantasy anyway but here on the TS side we have real people taking real steps to transition and need real advice and support from other real people who have actually done it!

[Tamara Croft]

Well said April, this isn't fantasy, this is real life for TS members, you want to live in fantasy land, go post in the mtf section!

[Debglam]

You have a point April and Tamara. I have a real hard time with dishonesty under any circumstance but realize that there are some really sad people out there.

As a middle pather, I'll add that I don't think anyone on the trans* spectrum should get a pass on being dishonest but that clearly the cost of dishonesty is greater on those that are "all in."

[Kathryn Martin]

One of the issues about fakers is that sometimes they are really difficult to distinguish from those that are really in deep stealth. I guess the way to find out is if you in some way exist in a provable way. I have seen people vanish when things got a little too close for comfort.

[steftoday]

Holy crap.
I just figured out who you all are talking about.
Wow. I was wondering where "she" went.

[melissakozak]

I honestly think there are people who simply get his or her kicks out of pretending, period. It is sad, but true. I know exactly who Deb is referring too, and now, 'her' voice is silent....and many of us thought her story was real...oh well....

[Deborah_UK]

I have been questioned about my experiences in transition by some on here because my experiences haven't fit in with their model of having a really hard time, and as if to justify their experiences compared to mine I've been called out because I don't post a pic anymore. I was attacked by several on here for not showing a pic and decided to stop posting for a while.

Well I think that this thread proves that posting a pic proves absolutely nothing.

My life experiences are as relevant as others and I can speak of my experiences as they have happened to me and if someone gets some comfort or hope then that does it for me.

I don't have to justify my experiences to anyone and if they don't fit for you, fine, but they are MY experiences and I will post where I think someone may benefit (hence my return yesterday in LeaP's thread on confidence).

[noeleena]

Hi,

Hmmm.

I wonder what it takes to show ones self as to being who one is do i have to be put on trial & stand before a board so i can give an account that im for real.i wonder, if one wonted to you could read of my interviews for two T V stations here in NZ Cambell Live and Closeup TVNZ, interviews for our Papers plus of cause the net, by just useing my name, & its for real. take that up with our Police & Births Deaths & Marrage dept, & the Timaru Courthouse,

Allso i think what i have writen well tryed to is real all names are real. places & other details , any way why would i wont to pretend, im too involved with in Waimate & our people to not be well known, any way as iv said tell lie's they will catch up so why not just be real, long run its a lot less hassle real life is more than enough .

...noeleena...

[Nigella]

One thing about experiences is that they are unique, yes there are similarities but ultimately each persons transition pathway is different. This forum has a good reputation for "finding out" those who wish to deceive, in one forum, what the heck, most of it is pure fantasy, a break from the trials and tribulations of real life. In the other forum it is about living real life.

[Ann Louise]

It's only my two cents but i much prefer this type of discussion over those regarding the degree of "transness, " and judgemental labeling that erupts spontaneously here sometimes. Outright liars are dogs, but transgender newbies blindly trying to find and get started on their path are another. The former deserve scorn and derision, and the latter my compassion and support. Ann

[Nigella]

That can be difficult to judge at times Ann, I agree that "newbies" need compassion and support, but they also need harsh reality. That is where you will find "judgemental labelling" coming to the fore. There is and always will be varying degrees of "transness", but that is less frequent than it used to be. We have to support those who feel they may be TS, some have yet to seek professional help to confirm their place on the TG spectrum. Those who want to BS the community are eventually called out, whilst the aftermath of this may be bloody, in the long term it is good to show the fakers, liars and hangers on, for what they really are.

[Ann Louise]

Gosh you're right Nigella, and I get pulled each way on this topic. There's another thread just started up on Harry Benjamin, and "IV," "V," etc., and my thoughts that go out to our sister, the OP on that one, are kind of like what I'm trying to say here, on this thread. She, dear Dreamer_grl, is just such a questioner and seeker. And she's open and honest and unafraid of exposing her inner heart to all of us, and to anyone in the online world with a search engine. Her sincere questioning is very similar to the inner hell that I went through before I resolved all that, and I would be so sad to see her and other's like her being the recipient of overly pointed questioning and comment. I don't know what the answer is, but I know what it feels like, and it feels like love and compassion. Thank you Nigella, and btw I hope you're doing well. Ann

[PaulaQ]

OK, I know who the impostor was. I am saddened by that.

You make good points Ann Louise. I think you are right about dreamer_girl.

I know the MtF section is rife with totally unrealistic BS, but this forum is not so great for a someone trying to come to terms with their gender issues. The harsh reality offered here sometimes borders on hopelessness, and to someone who's suicidal, that could push them over the edge. That was my experience anyway - one of the posters here linked something fairly toxic in my opinion, and it was the last little nudge I needed to attempt suicide.

I had a lot of folks try to convince me I'm not TS, despite having textbook symptoms for a late transitioner.

I do understand the need here to remind people about how hard this is, and how its nothing like their fantasies. (Anybody who'd fantasize about transitioning is nuts, BTW.) But I took a lot of flak here. I also got some great support, but I was about half convinced that the cure for my misery was worse than the misery itself. If that were really true, why wouldn't you commit suicide?

[Nicole Erin]

One of the issues about fakers is that sometimes they are really difficult to distinguish from those that are really in deep stealth. I guess the way to find out is if you in some way exist in a provable way. I have seen people vanish when things got a little too close for comfort.

Another way to kind of know if someone is fibbing is when their stories start to mis-align.
Funny though how when some lie how they really like to go overboard with cinderella stories that are unrealistic for anyone except maybe some rich celebrity.

As for WHY - I still believe people who say they are trans really are on some level. Whether it is merely wishing they could transition to those who actually have. We know there are many levels.
Where it starts to become unrealistic is when they are 100% stealth, have a rich husband, live in some prestigious town, blah blah.