out dressed on cape cod ...man troubles.....

[alwayshave]

Wendy would face repercussion for protecting herself in MA? So any male or female should allow themselves to be mugged or otherwise mistreated, should this happen in a dark parking lot late at night? This doesn't seem right.

Reine, every circumstance is different and fact specific. However, the duty to withdraw is on the books. You can throw a punch when cornered, however once you have your opponent off of you and you can withdraw, you must withdraw. If you decide to duke it out when you could have left, your going down for battery. The model jury instructions for self-defense in Massachusetts states

2. Duty to retreat

A person cannot lawfully act in self-defense unless he or she has exhausted all other reasonable alternatives before resorting to force. A person may use physical force in self-defense only if he (she) could not get out of the situation in some other way that was available and reasonable at the time. The Commonwealth may prove the defendant did not act in self-defense by proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant resorted to force without using avenues of escape that were reasonably available and which would not have exposed the defendant to further danger.

You may consider any evidence about where the incident took place, whether or not the defendant might have been able to escape by walking away or otherwise getting to safety or by summoning help if that could be done in time, or by holding the attacker at bay if the means were available, or by some other method. You may consider whether the use of force reasonably seemed to be the only means of protection in the circumstances. You may take into account that a person who is attacked may have to decide what to do quickly and while under emotional strain.

[ReineD]

Alwayshave, in the thread above me you write: "If you decide to duke it out when you could have left, your going down for battery."

This I completely understand. If I were physically attacked first I'd yell at the top of my voice "NO!" squarely in his face (this tends to surprise and intimidate) and then I'd step on his foot and knee him in the groin. Then I'd kick off my heels and run away as fast as I could.

[alwayshave]

If I were physically attacked first I'd yell at the top of my voice "NO!" squarely in his face (this tends to surprise and intimidate) and then I'd step on his foot and knee him in the groin. Then I'd kick off my heels and run away as fast as I could.

Reine, if that is the only reasonable means of retreating than you would be OK. Again you can throw a punch to get someone off of you, but then you must retreat directly thereafter. However, if the door to the bar/pub that Wendy references was directly behind you and you could easily retreat (i.e. backup inside the bar) without kneeing or kicking, then you cannot knee or kick.

That being said, being charged with a crime is not the same as being convicted. Massachusetts juries tend to get things right more often than the police, prosecutors and politicians. So had you had a means of withdrawal and kicked or kneed the guy, you may be charged, but most juries would find you not guilty.

[Wonderwho]

And I thought NY was the most backward state. Here you can only shoot someone inside the home, do you know what a mess that makes. It is a wonderfull world where the as-hole that starts trouble has more rights than the woman or man that gets attacked.
Does this mean that unless you are a real jerk you have no rights in Mass?
I wonder where this is going.........
In a world where it hard enough to teach your children right from wrong now we must teach them how to RUNAWAY!!!!!!
Wonderwho

[Lorileah]

for the most part i was not dressed ****ty just cleavege showing.....i delt with guys hitting .. it happens .. don't like it don't go out dressed ... the ass grab well i could let that go... grabbing my boobs and trying to kiss me after a no.... thats not right ... oh i am going to let him know who i am and slap his head.... it's going to happen for sure ..... just how many women has this pig grabbed??? time he getts a lesson...

First it wasn't how you were dressed, it was his problem and his assumption that you were amenable to his advances. However, if you do anything now you will be the instigator and you will be removed from the premises OR arrested as so many have stated before. Vengeance is not a defense. He hurt you, you didn't do anything at he time, the foul is not punishable. You should have called the police then. To drive home the point...if ANYTHING should happen to that man where he is asualted in the next few weeks, you have made threats in public toward him and you will be a person of interest. In other words...Let it go.

I'm glad you are okay my friend. Had it been me instead of you, that guy would have been a whole lot bruised rather than me. Even if we are acting like a prim and proper lady, we never have to take that kind of abuse from anyone, especially some jackass.

I hear that all the time and I actually thought that. I don't care how tough you think you are, when this situation arises you will be at a disadvantage. You may not lose the battle but you will be bloodied, more than you think. Walk away or get help.

men will take many more liberties with CDers than with GGs. Maybe they think that since CDers are male, they should be interested in the same thing as them, especially if they're out there dressed? It's unfortunate but there are still lots of people who think that CDers dress only for sexual reasons.

Many men believe that TGs are fair game. Add alcohol and it gets worse. And I agree that TGs are often more a target than a GG. Men respect GGs, they don't have to respect a TG.

I wouldn't go back specifically to look for a fight in guy mode. I'd just go back and be yourself and if he is there and provokes you again, then take off your heels (for balance) and smack him one.

Then call for help. I would not even smack him, I would just call the police and let them handle it.

If you're hanging around in bars and having trouble, perhaps you shouldn't be hanging around in bars or at the very least, choosing a better class of bar.

So, suddenly the OP is the instigator here. The victim is at fault for going to a bar, or the "wrong" bar. You don't know what kind of bar this was...it could have been the Ritz. You made assumptions that it was a gay bar? or a Tranny bar? or a dive bar? It happens at the best of places. Being a jerk doesn't know a society level. To be truthful, it has been the guys who looked like they had a higher social rating who have acted the worst to me.

The only thing I would have done differently is I would have asked the bar to provide me with safe passage to my car. Sounds like the bartender tried to do that.

Edit: NOTE...Do NOT Take this to places that are forbidden in Site Rules. You know what I mean. Any talk like that and it will be deleted.

[kimdl93]

wow, that creep assaulted you...what a total jerk. Sorry you had to experience that, and grateful that the bartender came to the rescue. Better stop by and give the bartender a nice tip!

[lingerieLiz]

You must file a police report.

Yes do and use your male name. Then when he gets it he may think that he must have been out of it that night.

[Rogina B]

Not really sure what to make of it,but as someone that is out in the mainstream world most everyday,I'll say this...Leave your penis at home.Dress like a woman,think like a woman...no need for physical retaliation now..Talk it over with the bartender and then decide to file a police report.

[linda allen]

So, suddenly the OP is the instigator here. The victim is at fault for going to a bar, or the "wrong" bar.

Seriously, that is what you take from my post? Seriously? You know you're better than that.

There are places (including bars) where I wouldn't go as a male, even with a bunch of my male friends. As a "female" we have to be that much more selective in where we go, especially alone. As many have pointed out in this thread and others, alcohol consumption causes many people to lose their inhibitions and for many of those people, consumption of alcohol causes them to want to start trouble or throw their weight around. A single woman can be an easy target for these people.

If may not be fair that women have to be careful where they go, but it's reality. You may have a right to be someplace, but you may end up "dead right".

[Wendy me]

saw the guy last night on my way back from the cape . he came up in back of me saying hi and arm around me from behind he looked stunned to see me in male mode still my boobs show in a tank top and long hair in a high up poneytail.....he was liks sorry dude i thought you were someone else... i told him i am who you thought and told him if he ever touches me again i will defend myselfe ... and then call a cop... the bartender through him out ... the bartender told he knew that i come in dressed and thats cool still dosen't make it right for someone to be a as$...

sorry Lori for getting my last post deleted yar i should know better.....my bad Wendy walks to the conner (becuse i like it)......

[Tamara Croft]

Additionally, even if you thought you could palm any future altercation with this individual off as self defense, you have posted in public your intent to confront him. Not good.

And it wouldn't stand up in court, Wendy me is not her real name, anyone could have written it.

If you're out-and-about en femme it seems you should take a more feminine approach - scream, raise hell, and if you are in a more humane state stab his instep with your heel or skewer him with a knitting needle.

I don't know if this is tongue in cheek or not, but if it isn't, it's the most sexist comment I've ever read. Do you really think woman are like that? get real... I had a man grab me by the throat once, my initial reaction, I punched him straight in the face and he was out for the count. I didn't have time to reach down and take my shoe off and hit him with it... ffs...

Wendy, I'm glad you're ok and didn't go back to clock him one, although if he does it again, you've warned him what will happen and I don't blame you, I'd bloody clock him one as well. No man has the right to touch an woman without consent, they do that, it's their fault if they get slapped.

[AllisontheGoddess]

Simple I need a description, the address of the bar, and the town you stay in. I'll make some calls. . . . . .loljk but really he was a total douche and if u see him again (which u shouldn't) give him whatfor

[Lorileah]

And it wouldn't stand up in court, Wendy me is not her real name, anyone could have written it.

breadcrumbs...it doesn't take much to back trace things on the internet.

No man has the right to touch an woman without consent, they do that, it's their fault if they get slapped.

If I may edit that a bit No person has the right to touch another person without consent. And this seems to be a new trend. I was talking with a GG friend yesterday who was at a bar (the bar shall remain nameless, but if you know me you know which one). Three different encounters however all on the same night. I am sorry to say the first involved a crossdresser (who needs to be slapped up side the head just for lack of tact but more so for perpetuating stereotypes) who actually had a chance with this woman (she said that although she had never considered it, this CD made think about dating a dresser). He (and I am using that pronoun because he didn't play the game by the rules) kept patting her rear as they talked. Later another male grabbed her breast as he asked her out. Then even later a male groped her crotch as he whispered in her ear. She is youngish and didn't know how to react and all the males were well beyond her age. Basically she was assaulted three times in one night. Too late to do anything now but we instructed her to contact management if it happened again and let them handle it. Sad part was it was her birthday and she was there with friends to celebrate. Oh and before anyone's mind goes anywhere with this she was A) buff because she works out at the gym a lot and B) wasn't dressed in any inappropriate manner in slacks and a top.

[Ceri Anne]

1) What the guy did to you was a crime. You could have called the police and had him arrested.

2) What you're planning on doing next week is also a crime but this time it's you who will be arrested.

Very wise and sane advice from Linda. If you should run into him again and he gives you any problem, 1. Don't leave the bar. 2. Notify the bouncer or bar tender. 3. If the guy confronts you, let him know right away if he touches you, you will be pressing assault charges.

Wendy dear...Please please do not lower your standards to meet this scumbags level...elevate yourself above this and go to the bar as male and say that you represent your sister who was assaulted by a patron of this bar. Give the owner to ban this person or you will go to the media and law enforcement.
The ball will be in his court also us CDERS could picket the location for your cause!

There is no need to picket the bar or cause the bar problems. The bar tender already proved he will stick up for his patrons when he came out of the bar to run the guy off. The problem isn't the bar, its the a hole.

[suchacutie]

One of the hard parts about all of this is that inappropriate behavior will usually catch us off guard...and the more outrageous the more we aren't ready for it.

One piece of self defense is to think through ahead of time what kinds of responses might be available to you. It doesn't solve the problem but can help to moderate and focus thought. Sometimes you can "see it coming" from gestures, language, or level of inebriation, hoping that the "ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" pathway can be a winner.

And then there are the times that no matter how we prepare we just need to be in someone's face. Yelling outrageously and making public what the jerk is doing often helps. It's embarassing, but effective. When all else fails, sometimes physical response is all there is.

And that's what I've never understood. If they know we're CD, then they know it's probably the case that we are very capable of defending ourselves. If a guy grabs Tina's butt doesn't he assume he's going to get an elbow ramming into a rib? Tina's quite capable of cracking a rib that way, or at least bruising it badly. Just never made sense to me

[Tamara Croft]

breadcrumbs...it doesn't take much to back trace things on the internet.

Doesn't take much to delete it either

[Lorileah]

One of the hard parts about all of this is that inappropriate behavior will usually catch us off guard...and the more outrageous the more we aren't ready for it.

Sage advice

And that's what I've never understood. If they know we're CD, then they know it's probably the case that we are very capable of defending ourselves. If a guy grabs Tina's butt doesn't he assume he's going to get an elbow ramming into a rib? Tina's quite capable of cracking a rib that way, or at least bruising it badly. Just never made sense to me

You are looking at it from your angle. The other guy's angle is that he "knows" that every CD is dressing for sexual purposes, that every CD "wants" to have sex with a man and that every CD is submissive. Here we know it isn't true but in the real world it is another stereotype reinforced by porn sites and the media

[KristyPa]

I was going out for years dressed. In all those times I only had one issue. While sitting at the bar a guy in a very crowded bar started hitting on me, lifting my skirt up checking out my legs. I kept telling him to quit it, finally the bar tender came over, told him to knock it off and to get out.
I would guess it may have got ugly if the bar tender hadn't done something. I guess stuff like this is going to happen whether dressed or not. Some guys when drinking want to pick fights with other guys and some guys want to hit on you to see what they can get from you.

[deebra]

Pepper Spray, and USE IT!

[Lynn Marie]

Thanks for the story Wendy. Sounds like you have a great bartender, and no fear.