What do you think is a Transsexual?

[Tamara Croft]

I've read so much on the internet in the last few days, to try and educate myself about Transsexuals. I have yet to find any website that concurs with another website. So, I'm still confused to say the least. I'll tell you what I've learned and maybe you can all enlighten me a bit further with what you believe is correct.

Transsexual - a person born of one gender, but knows inside they are the opposite gender and live as that gender. This also includes those that know inside they are the opposite gender, live as that gender and change their sex/gender.

Now I've also read that the above statement is wrong and would be shot down in a heartbeat by true transsexuals (those that live/have grs/srs/ffs etc etc...), which I find rather confusing to say the least.

I've also read that Transgender is the term for the whole lot, ts, tv, cd, mtf, ftm and so on....

And then I read more and learn that transgendered means those that live like the opposite gender or want to live like the opposite gender, but don't change anything to become the opposite gender...

See why I'm confused?? I thought all those that felt like the opposite gender inside, or lived like the opposite gender, did or did not have surgery to become the opposite gender, all came under the term Transsexual.

Some believe that taking hormones and not having surgery, but living as the opposite gender is debatable to whether you are or are not a TS.

So what do you think is right? Why are there so many confusing terms on the internet?? How are we supposed to learn, when not one website can agree with any other??

[SilkenPrincess]

Hi Tamara!
I suppose the difficulty lies in the fact that, like arses, everyone's got an opinion. And some of them stink! lol
But, like everybody else, I've got an opinion too.
I haven't had a "professional" diagnosis, but I've read enough literature to know that I am a transsexual. So, what am I? My body is male, but inwardly I feel and think as a female, and always have. Note that I DIDN'T say that I want to be a woman. I am one! I just want to be a WHOLE woman! My whole life has been a complete failure to measure up to what everyone said I am, and what they expected of me. I tried, but I'm NOT that person that they think I am. I am aware that there are a lot of people just like me that could be happy without going to the extent of surgery, and I wouldn't think to judge them as "less" of a transsexual because of that. To each his/her own. The best definition I could give personally of my experience is this: I am a woman with no expression, and a man with no soul. I am two disjointed halves, in perpetual disharmony, totally unaffirmed and unappreciated by those in my life. But, I made the bed, I must lie in it. Life goes on, and on, ........
Love,
SilkenPrincess
aka Steph

[Natalie x]

Like Steph, I'm in the "girl trapped in a man's body" part of the spectrum. To me, that makes me transexual, whether I do anything about it or not.

Sometimes, in the search for labels, folks lose sight of the people to whom they are applied. We, in our community, are incredibly diverse; from the casual to the obsessive, and with every imaginable reason for doing it. When you are on the inside, it looks very different to how it looks to outsiders. I don't want to be labelled, because, like you, I am totally unique.

[Priss]

I think the most important part of the definition of transsexual that is quite often left out to make the term more inclusive, is the need / drive that takes one all the way through SRS or GRS and beyond. I'd have to say, that anyone who does not have that drive, is not a transsexual. It's the drive that makes it. People will and have died for this... It's a need to be as whole as possible, that must be fulfilled.

0.02

[BeckyCath]

Hi Tamara

Opened a can of worms here, this one could get nasty...

I don't post on here that often, mainly cos im living my life, and actually enjoying it for a change.

I'm living full time now, after an epic 20 month battle with the NHS to get treatment, and in the end i just decided that i'd be better of making my way in this life "as a woman" and here i am...

I think it depends on which website you read, and i guess if you were to post that same question on the UK based "flower" forum, you'd have to put your hard hat on...

In my opininion, the definition of transsexual is complicated, even the HBSOC has a number of definitions. HBSOC define transsexualism as a number of gender identity disorders.

I'm no expert, but a transsexual, in my mind, is a person with some form of Gender Identity Disorder.

I wouldn't ever dream of saying "I think like a woman" and "I feel like a female" as much as i wouldn't ever dream of saying "I think like a bloke". It's my experience, that on the whole, my cognitive processes fit in with "normal female" thought processes. Think of it this way, If you ask someone "How do you think?" What's going to be the answer?
I only know what it's like to think like "me", and i've asked plenty of folk about this,asking my female friends "How do you know you think like a woman" and the answer is usually, "I don't know..." I guess we know because there is a "shared experience".

When i had my speech therapy sessions, my therapist was also looking at my none verbal communication, and she said in a report that i displayed a comprehensive use of "feminine none verbal communication skills and representative body language"... Are those skills easy to learn? or do they come naturaly? I don't know, I'm just being me...

People who knew me as him and know me as her say i am much happier, much more at ease. Those who don't want to understand say they find it really hard to cope with, as i "do woman so well"...

However, I'm not sure i am transsexual... I've had 2 psychiatrists diagnose me with "Gender Identity Dysphoria", one of them saying i "exhibited GID in a most profound way" What does that mean?
Dr Khoosal told me "On the balance of probabilities, you do fit the criteria of classic transsexual"... what does that mean?
It means that even the professionals aren't sure...

I'm just me, and i am happier living as a woman, I feel at ease and at peice in my skin... I am able to function to my fullest, hold my head up high and smile, be confident and happy... Labels don't make me a woman, and i don't need a label to live my life as a woman...

Sorry to ramble, hope it all makes sense

Rebecca

[CaptLex]

So what do you think is right? Why are there so many confusing terms on the internet?? How are we supposed to learn, when not one website can agree with any other??

Well, I think if you ask people here you'll get as many different definitions as are out there. Is it fair to come up with an agreed-upon definition for this site, just so there is a consensus? Or would that just make things worse?

[Tamara Croft]

Well, I think if you ask people here you'll get as many different definitions as are out there. Is it fair to come up with an agreed-upon definition for this site, just so there is a consensus? Or would that just make things worse?

No no no.... I don't want a consensus for this forum at all, I want to know what everyone else thinks. If everyone thought the same thing, there would be no need for me to ask?

[Deborah]

Transsexual - a person born of one gender, but knows inside they are the opposite gender and live as that gender. This also includes those that know inside they are the opposite gender, live as that gender and change their sex/gender.

Now I've also read that the above statement is wrong and would be shot down in a heartbeat by true transsexuals (those that live/have grs/srs/ffs etc etc...), which I find rather confusing to say the least.

[SIZE=3]
The i'm trannier then thou syndrome in the TS community.[/SIZE]

I thought all those that felt like the opposite gender inside, or lived like the opposite gender, did or did not have surgery to become the opposite gender, all came under the term Transsexual.

[SIZE=3]That's my definition also. I don't need anyone to tell me what i already know.[/SIZE]

[Joy Carter]

It is simple to me Trans - to change or move. Sex- the plumbing you were born with. "To change one's sexual caracteristics." I hardly think one who has taken hormones can be considered transexual untill they have SRS. They are just men to me untill they change their sexual function.
0.02

[Katrina]

My view:

TS = someone who undergoes any one or more of the following: HRT, FFS, SRS.
TG = all of us who question our gender identity.

[Ms. Donna]

Opened a can of worms here, this one could get nasty...

Hi Tamara,

I'm not at all surprised by this thread.

This is one of the biggest problems with the entire Trans community - who's what and what the hell do the labels really mean. Accept the reality now that you will not find any universally agreed upon definitions

The following should all be considered prefaced with the words [SIZE="3"]In General[/SIZE] - as there are always exceptions.

[SIZE="3"]Transgender[/SIZE]

There are two common definitions for this, depending on how it's used:

1 : An umbrella term for any gender variant individual. Includes crossdressers, transsexuals, genderqueers, transgenderists and anything else that idoes not fit the Cisgender Ideal.

2 : A gender identity that is opposite (or other) than that which one was assigned at birth.

[SIZE="3"]Transsexual[/SIZE]

Much the same as non-trans people, transsexuals buy into the Cisgender Ideal - which is:

• Gender is a binary system
• The only two 'genders' are man and woman
• All men are male and all women are female

A male (sex) bodied transsexual consider herself a 'woman' (gender) born into the wrong body. A female (sex) bodied transsexual consider him a 'man' (gender) born into the wrong body. In both cases, what they feel is needed to 'set things right' as to have their sex corrected to match their gender - the endgame being to realize themselves as a man or woman as defined by the Cisgender Ideal.

Transsexuals are most likely to use hormones to feminize or masculinize their bodies. M2F transsexuals are more likely to undergo SRS than F2M as it is more cost effective and there are much better results with vaginoplasty than with phalloplasty.

Most (not all) who identify as non-op transsexuals (transsexuals as defined above but who do not have SRS) do so for financial reasons (SRS is expensive) or because they can not get 'approval' from a pshrink and other in the medical community.

[SIZE="3"]Transgenderist[/SIZE]

Transgenderists do not accept the Cisgender Ideal: i.e. 'men' need not be male and 'women' need not be female. Transgenderists tend to live either full or part time as the gender opposite to that which they were assigned at birth. They are male 'women' or female 'men'.

While transgenderists may use hormones to feminize or masculinize their bodies, they do not have a desire to surgically alter their bodies so that their 'sex' matched their gender.

The main difference between the non-op transsexual and the transgenderist is that the non-op transsexual stills view their sex as incorrect and desires to have it 'corrected'. The transgenderist doesn't hold this same view (or at least not to the same extreme.)

[SIZE="3"]Genderqueer[/SIZE]

Included for completeness sake.

Genderqueers are much like transgenderists in that they do not accept the Cisgender Idea. We tend to live either full or part time as some gender other that which they were assigned at birth. It need not be 'man' or 'woman' - it could be something inbetween or totally different. We may be one thing one day and another the next. Usually, we tend to be somewhat ambiguous with regards to gender presentation. As fas as a structured view of gender is concerned, we tend to be kinda 'off the grid' as it were.

In terms of 'belonging', we are most like the transgenderists as we do not have a desire to surgically alter our bodies so that our 'sex' matches our gender. Our POV: what 'sex' would match our gender?

As I said in the beginning, all the preceeding should all be considered prefaced with the words [SIZE="3"]In General[/SIZE] - as there are always exceptions.


Love & Stuff,
Donna

[Stlalice]

Tamara,
I doubt that you will get any group of transexuals to agree on a single definition in all respects. For me it boils down to someone who has such a profound level of discomfort with the gender assigned to them at birth that living in the opposite gender role is the only way to as my sister put it to "live at peace in your own skin". Anything on the order of counseling, HRT, or SRS comes under the heading of treatment to facilitate that goal - they are not in and of themselves the goal or any kind of a "rank" or place in a "pecking order" of the "I'm more trans than you" school. 0.02

[RenaCD]

Tamara thanks so much for asking this question,it has crossed my Thoughts in the last couple of days when another Cross dresser Mentioned it and Different Class Levels of Cross dressers and Trangenderisum.
So I am just going to behave and read and Learn

[GypsyKaren]

[SIZE=3]
The i'm trannier then thou syndrome in the TS community.[/SIZE]

Now this is something I want to talk about, I may put a sticky on it. There does seem to me to be a caste system in the TS community...TS is better than CD, post-op is better than pre-op, and both are better than non-ops. That's a bunch of hooey that I won't tolerate here.

We're all trannies, and we all feel born with the wrong body. Just because someone whips out their credit card and gets cut on doesn't make then any more of a woman, or man for that matter, than someone who doesn't. As a matter of fact, according to my tranny docs and the research I've done on the subject, the majority of TSs DON'T go all the way, and the majority of those who do are still UNHAPPY with themselves.

This is a place for help and support, not cliques and the like. I believe that we're all in the same boat here, and we'll all get a lot further if we row together.

Karen

[Kim E]

I thought all those that felt like the opposite gender inside, or lived like the opposite gender, did or did not have surgery to become the opposite gender, all came under the term Transsexual.

In my opinion, this is the definition of a Transsexual. The primary criteria would be a strong personal conviction that one was born the wrong gender. Then FFS, HRT or SRS would be secondary, a personal choice as to whether an individual would choose to follow, or not to follow that path.

I feel that Transsexuals include pre-ops, post-ops and non-ops as well. Unfortunately there is an unfair caste system that exists within the TS community. Because of this we can become our own worse enemies and can very easily alienate young and suffering sisters who are looking for support and understanding. I've been a member of a large TS forum for a few years and have seen this first hand.

Unfortunately, too many feel that in order to qualify as a TS, one must follow a certain set of rules and guidelines. If these steps aren't followed then one isn't truly a TS. I disagree with this thought process. Personally, I feel we are all individuals, each of us must find that level where we are the most comfortable, where we are able to find peace within ourselves and where we can survive. After all, the most important aspect of being Transsexual is day to day survival.

Kim

[MarinaTwelve200]

Because of the lack of agreement with the sorces, it is always necessary to state the definition YOU are using whenever you discuss the subject of transsexuality.

In my case, I define TS as basically a person who has a brain and thought patterns that are at odds with one's biosex.---The typical Male who feels like he is really a woman is the most common example. This is not to be confused with homosexuality(HS), wherin only ones sexual orentation is "reversed" or CDing, which is something a person may DO, in conjunction with TS or HS but is also a hetrosexual activity vor various reasons.

The Theory I have heard, that makes the most sense, concerning TS is as follows.

The human brain, by default, is FEMALE, In boy babies, at a critical developmental stage, a male hormone is secreted in the womb which "re-wires" the brain into the typical MALE mode. In the rare cases where this does not happen, or in cases where the fetus does not respond to this hormone, the brain will retain its FEMALE DEFAULT configuration, and the boy will feel like a woman as he has a female brain.

The opposite condition where a girl baby is exposed to the hormone, to produce a Female to Male TS is much more rarer. As it may be due to the ADDITION of the male hormone to the system ---from external sorces or a very rare endocrene imbalance, rather that by a simple default. As a resuly M to F TS is much more common.

[ashlee chiffon]

i've found the more i live my life, the more i enjoy the female side of my existence...
the older i get, the more i respect and revere all that is female and aspire to know and experience more as the "her" side of me...
how many times over the decades can one get a sense of exhiliration from dressing? the answer is ...each and every time...
being a transgendered *for whatever that is* is part of my life, is part of my relaxation, is my most enjoyable hobby and i would, if i could, live full time as a woman and be Very happy but i think and feel the same when in drab or drag...just act more fem in dress...and hate to take the clothes and forms off, but do and live my male life quite well and succesfully...but, it is often a lonely pursuit, being hard to find a SO that understands the concept *heaven knows, even I don't understand the concept at times*...but then, half the "normal" relationships don't work, either *check the divorce rate*...

i think that we can offer a woman a lot, if she's open to accepting and enjoying, and it can bring a closeness that is Very intense and exciting. *i've been there twice in two relationships and we had great fun shopping and playing!
Life's too short...we'll never figure it all out! Just enjoy while we can! there is No right answer! Like the Doors' song...."people are strange...*
my thoughts...to add to the confusion...:cheeky:

[Natasha Anne]

Of course we all have opinions, and mine goes something like this, because it is how I'm living and thinking.

I think a transsexual is definitely someone who sees no alternative but to take the steps to change sex. Even if they cannot afford to, or it is medically not possibly for them because of health issues, they simply would if they could.

I also think transsexual is a temporary state until I achieve the gender I was meant to be. Sure I'll have a past, some of it quite pleasant actually, but it will not deter me from living and being the woman I know I am.

[Tamara Croft]

It is simple to me Trans - to change or move. Sex- the plumbing you were born with. "To change one's sexual caracteristics." I hardly think one who has taken hormones can be considered transexual untill they have SRS. They are just men to me untill they change their sexual function.
0.02

I've been thinking about this and your logic is flawed.

A good friend of mine is a TS, she lives most of the time as a woman, she acts like a woman, she even thinks like a woman and would transition tomorrow if she could. But she can't, not because she can't afford it, not because fear is holding her back, it's because her doctor refuseses to refer her to a gender counsillor. Does this make her any less of a TS, because somoene, who probably doesn't know bugger all about has said 'sorry can't help you' ??

Then there are those that simply cannot have SRS, GRS due to health problems, finance, commitments etc.... those still just 'men' to you as well? What they look like on the outside isn't what they are on the inside, don't you understand that? The saying goes 'never judge a book by its cover'.

[Deborah]

Now this is something I want to talk about, I may put a sticky on it. There does seem to me to be a caste system in the TS community...TS is better than CD, post-op is better than pre-op, and both are better than non-ops. That's a bunch of hooey that I won't tolerate here.
Karen

[SIZE=3]Just for the record it's not my way of thinking. It's what i've observed from various chat rooms, forums and personal experience.
I don't like it either and it offends me also. [/SIZE]

[Deborah]

Then there are those that simply cannot have SRS, GRS due to health problems, finance, commitments etc.... those still just 'men' to you as well? What they look like on the outside isn't what they are on the inside, don't you understand that? The saying goes 'never judge a book by its cover'.

[SIZE=3]Exactly i 100% agree and i'll leave it at that.[/SIZE] :mad:

[~Dee~]

there are so many different versions of different terms with different references ... blah blah blah ..
i too know this for when i was trying to research things.. i ended up at all different kinds of places.

as far as i believe, someone is transexual if they feel that they are born with the wrong physical gender. i dont see that surgery has anything to do with the equation, as many many different reasons could prevent a TS from being able to go through with GRS.

i do know of the pecking order of things, but i think thats a true bag of garbage .. i dont care if someone is CD'er or TS.. i think its still something that we each can help each other with and to an extent, understand.
i think that having a blanket term for the whole community is great .. and as far as ive been lead to believe, most people are using transgendered as that blanket term. i dont care what it is, so long as it doesnt exclude and it gets the point across.

according to some of the specialists im seeing (in order to transition) you must be acknowledged as 'gender dsyphoric' and also with 'gender indentity disorder' before being labelled transexual.

i guess thats where we get into even more troubles .. a lot of these terms carry a certain legal ramification with them... and though i have not researched it in such detail, im sure that each area will have its own legal definition of what is properly transexual.

ack .. the more i type the more im getting confused and the more i want to type more to clarify .. tehehe.
but i hope you get the point.

D.

[Cheery GG]

No wonder im sodding confused....its all very mind blowing although interesting and intriguing....

Thre still arent any solid answers though are there,.......I guess even the professionals dont know.....

cheery
xx

[Lisa Scott]

I would tend to agree in the most part with Donna's thoughts on this subject as this is pretty close to what most of the UK medical profession linked to a gender clinic would state.

I would however maintain that this is a generalisation, and not everyone fits neatly into this categorisation. I have been diagnosed as Transsexual by 3 gender specialists, including Dr Russell Reid initially, and later by 2 other specialists at a UK gender clinic. I have had some facial surgery, and am on hormones which I have been taking for over 3 years, but at this point I have no desire to have SRS.

The clinic even recognises that you can be Transsexual and chose not to have SRS, or not to live in the female role as there are varying degrees of need to be wholly female and many different situations. All they will state is that for them to support you with a request for SRS, you must first complete the 2 year RLT.

During a discussion only a couple of days ago I was advised that a high percentage of transsexuals even go as far as fullfilling the 2 year RLT, to then decide against SRS.

To be technically correct, Most transsexuals would state that once they have had SRS, they are not Post op TS's, but actually females, as they have been fixed.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Lisa x

Hi Tamara,

I'm not at all surprised by this thread.

This is one of the biggest problems with the entire Trans community - who's what and what the hell do the labels really mean. Accept the reality now that you will not find any universally agreed upon definitions

The following should all be considered prefaced with the words [SIZE="3"]In General[/SIZE] - as there are always exceptions.

[SIZE="3"]Transgender[/SIZE]

There are two common definitions for this, depending on how it's used:

1 : An umbrella term for any gender variant individual. Includes crossdressers, transsexuals, genderqueers, transgenderists and anything else that idoes not fit the Cisgender Ideal.

2 : A gender identity that is opposite (or other) than that which one was assigned at birth.

[SIZE="3"]Transsexual[/SIZE]

Much the same as non-trans people, transsexuals buy into the Cisgender Ideal - which is:

• Gender is a binary system
• The only two 'genders' are man and woman
• All men are male and all women are female

A male (sex) bodied transsexual consider herself a 'woman' (gender) born into the wrong body. A female (sex) bodied transsexual consider him a 'man' (gender) born into the wrong body. In both cases, what they feel is needed to 'set things right' as to have their sex corrected to match their gender - the endgame being to realize themselves as a man or woman as defined by the Cisgender Ideal.

Transsexuals are most likely to use hormones to feminize or masculinize their bodies. M2F transsexuals are more likely to undergo SRS than F2M as it is more cost effective and there are much better results with vaginoplasty than with phalloplasty.

Most (not all) who identify as non-op transsexuals (transsexuals as defined above but who do not have SRS) do so for financial reasons (SRS is expensive) or because they can not get 'approval' from a pshrink and other in the medical community.

[SIZE="3"]Transgenderist[/SIZE]

Transgenderists do not accept the Cisgender Ideal: i.e. 'men' need not be male and 'women' need not be female. Transgenderists tend to live either full or part time as the gender opposite to that which they were assigned at birth. They are male 'women' or female 'men'.

While transgenderists may use hormones to feminize or masculinize their bodies, they do not have a desire to surgically alter their bodies so that their 'sex' matched their gender.

The main difference between the non-op transsexual and the transgenderist is that the non-op transsexual stills view their sex as incorrect and desires to have it 'corrected'. The transgenderist doesn't hold this same view (or at least not to the same extreme.)

[SIZE="3"]Genderqueer[/SIZE]

Included for completeness sake.

Genderqueers are much like transgenderists in that they do not accept the Cisgender Idea. We tend to live either full or part time as some gender other that which they were assigned at birth. It need not be 'man' or 'woman' - it could be something inbetween or totally different. We may be one thing one day and another the next. Usually, we tend to be somewhat ambiguous with regards to gender presentation. As fas as a structured view of gender is concerned, we tend to be kinda 'off the grid' as it were.

In terms of 'belonging', we are most like the transgenderists as we do not have a desire to surgically alter our bodies so that our 'sex' matches our gender. Our POV: what 'sex' would match our gender?

As I said in the beginning, all the preceeding should all be considered prefaced with the words [SIZE="3"]In General[/SIZE] - as there are always exceptions.


Love & Stuff,
Donna

[pattied]

My view:

TS = someone who undergoes any one or more of the following: HRT, FFS, SRS.
TG = all of us who question our gender identity.

Ultimately I agree with Katrina. Though I would go a step further and add to her TS definition that the person must live as their desired gender. This does not mean dabble in it.

A very well known transexual wrote me once saying "there are about eight million different ways to be transgendered, and that there is no one right way" and she is correct! To be transgendered is merely to question one's birth gender. And how one handles that questioning, is strictly up to that person.

I hope this helps some!