CD/TVs becoming TSs

[Helana]

It seems to me that the urge in primary TS comes from the need to get away from their male selves as soon as possible, whereas in secondary TS the urge comes from feeling life is slipping by and your window to transition into a "good looking" woman is closing rapidly.

So long as the state of mind is correct, ie a realistic evaluation that you are simply trading one gender role for another with a different set of problems but that this will make you happier, then it does not really matter when or how you reach that point, transitioning (whether full time of SRS) is the correct path to follow. The danger is in rushing into a decision before you are ready for it.

The question as to whether a CD changes into a TS or if the person was always a TS hiding as a CD, is a chicken and egg story. Until the point of realization the CD will think that he is just a CD with TS fantasies, but after he makes his decision, he will believe he has always been a TS but just afraid to act upon his emotions.

The truth probably lies inbetween. Clearly by deciding upon transitioning in mid life, their gender dysphoria was not that explicit and they lived well enough as a male so there must have been some movement during the years. I think that secondary TS were probably always transgenderists - lying inbetween crossdressers and transsexuals and so had a foot in either camp and so could decide either way. Since we only have one shot of living this life, the desire to try out the alternative is fairly powerful.

A TG has a realistic viewpoint on changing gender not the fantasy wishes of CDs although I suspect that is not the case at all during childhood/teenage years. The TG component in the transgender spectrum is overshadowed by the CD and TS and is not discussed much but I suspect that many secondary TS are to be found there but label themselves as CD.

[FionaAlexis]

It seems to me that the urge in primary TS comes from the need to get away from their male selves as soon as possible, whereas in secondary TS the urge comes from feeling life is slipping by and your window to transition into a "good looking" woman is closing rapidly.......

The question as to whether a CD changes into a TS or if the person was always a TS hiding as a CD, is a chicken and egg story. Until the point of realization the CD will think that he is just a CD with TS fantasies, but after he makes his decision, he will believe he has always been a TS but just afraid to act upon his emotions.

Hi Helana,

I doubt the the urgency to transition later in life is related to good looks and I rather think it can be a raft of reasons like making best use of the time that is left to be a more complete person. Or simply the final acceptance of being TS. Being in a stonger financial position. Being stronger emotionally.

The 'chicken and egg' question is quite important to me - its partly why I'm asking these questions. Among other things, I want to know if there is a percentage of TSs who are sure they were previously CD - and have moved accross the spectrum.

Do you always use the male pronoun to describe CDs and TSs?


Fiona xx

Fiona

[Kate]

Hi all,

I used to think I was "just" a TV when I was younger - I got sexual kicks out of girls things for example, and it was the only term I found that seemed to describe me (oh how things would have been different if I had the Internet then). CDing started to loose interest a few years ago though in my case - I never got all that into it (certainly never went out!) and in the last 5 years or so it has just depressed me since that horrid male face still looked back from the mirror.

Anyway, I never crossdressed all that much, and just tried to supress my feminine ambitions, constructing a totally normal and convincing male persona - I even got married!

Now, however, I have finally been able to admit to myself what I had been hiding all those years, and it has been totally wonderful. It is a curious concept to me of a TV thinking they are a TS at a young age - gawds if only I had come across the term in my teens let alone anything else - perhaps I would not have wasted all this time!

Anyway, I firmly fall into what most people would classify as a secondary transsexual - ie. someone who developed a male persona and supressed their true female one, but still had a deep inner desire to be a girl from their teenage years.

However, I would urge caution to all TVish folk who find themselves flirting with the idea of a sex change, or think they are TS. Think long and hard - there are lots of cases of people who transitioned for bad reasons, and often there are clear signs such as them being fairly "hardcore" crossdressers. If it is about the clothes, then don't do it. This article is good:

A WARNING FOR THOSE CONSIDERING MtF SRS

Katie.

[CaptLex]

Is there anyone here who believes that they are a CD/TV but are quickly moving towards being a transsexual? Or were you CD/TV and are now sure you are transsexual?

And what do you think caused your change in perception?

Or do you feel you simply labeled yourself incorrectly and you were always a latent TS?

Fiona xx

Hey, Fiona:

Good question. I think my case is a little different from the others.

In some ways, I think I can say I moved quickly from being CD/TV to TG to TS, but then again it took me about 40 years to figure it out. The reason in my case, I believe, is hormonal. When I was a kid I knew everybody saw a girl when they looked at me, but I was sure I was really a boy. I also knew I couldn't tell anyone 'cause they'd probably put me away. I liked only boy clothes and boy toys and hanging out with the boys. Girls were like aliens to me.

But when puberty kicked in, so did all those female hormones that caused me to think maybe I had been mistaken (and giving birth certainly confirmed that diagnosis - although until the day I actually did give birth I kept thinking it was impossible). I started crossdressing in my early teens (as soon as I was allowed to pick out my own clothes) and continued into my late twenties.

After that I started taking more female hormones to deal with PCOS (poly-cystic ovary syndrome) and my male side went into a coma. At that time I didn't feel completely like either a male or female and my clothes reflected it. I wore mostly non-gender specific clothing and my sexual orientation became asexual (although I was still attracted to boys).

By then I had stopped hanging out with boys because their attitude toward me had changed, and learned to socialize with the girls if I was to have any friends at all (but they're still kind of alien to me). Which brings me to this year. A year ago I voluntarily stopped taking the female hormones and during the past year my male side has returned big time (a little more each month) and my female side has equally diminished.

As far as CDing, at first my desire to crossdress returned, then as months progressed and my male side became stronger, I started to realize that it was more than crossdressing. When I stopped taking the hormones I felt about 25% male and 75% female. After about eight months the feeling was 50/50 and now, a complete year later the pendulum has definitely swung the other way.

I still don't know what I'm going to do about it, but it's nice to feel like me again. It's nice to have my creativity and sex drive return. I feel like I've been blinded by a cloud of hormones for so many years and it's nice to see again. So, to answer your question, even though it took me about 40 years, in the last year I moved quickly from TV to TS.

[BeckyCath]

This is such an interesting thread, thank you Fiona...

I classify as a Transsexual woman, but from the age of 20 to the abe of 32, i was convinced i was just a transvestite...

I first asked for treatment for my gender issues when i was 19, back in 1992, and as i was depressed, i was refused treatment, and then tried to make a "male life" for myself... wife, children, mortgage, 2 cars, own business and allt he sorts of things people expect from a "succesful" bloke... I even stopped Xdressing because my partner asked me to before we married, so i did for getting on for 6 years. I was so convinced i would never pass as a woman, i was told by the junior psychiatrist who treated me back in 1992 that i was too big, too ugly, too hairy, too tall to ever pass as a woman, and that kind of negative criticism really had an impact on me... I just dived into a "male construction", i took to comfort eating and being quite socially withdrawn, i put weight on, and in that time, i put on about 7 stone...

I always "knew" something was wrong, and for years tried to convince myself i was just a transvestite, but every time i read something about transsexuals, i felt a kind of "kinship" and did never feel that the dry medical/ dictionary definitions of "trnasvestite" didn't really cover me...

It's been a long tough road, and getting to the point where i went out in the wide world as a woman took 32 years, and i shall never forget that night as long as i live... I found that i could go out and pass, i could be "accepted" as a woman...

I knew that night that i should try to seek treatment again, but i took 8 weeks out, and attempted to sort my thoughts out, and then i went into London for a weekend, and spent the whole weekend as a woman, and from then i knew that i should attempt to transition...

I've had to wait for a long time to get into the NHS system, and i am just on the threshold of my first appt at Leicester GIC... but i still don't know if transition is actually for me...

I've already lost my business due to economic conditions rather than my own incompetance, my marriage is a sham, but had been going down hill for a few years anyway... Maybe we'll stay together, maybe we won't...

So Alexis, i don't really know what to say, For all intends and purposes, i am a TV who then identified TS, but then i think i have always been TS, but die to my own life experiences, it was easier to define myself as a TV, as that kind of took the pain away...

I also think my "fundamental" outlook on Christianity had it's toll on me, and shaped some of my thoughts, and for years i thought i was "dirty" and "evil" for wanting to be a woman...

Sorry for the long rambling post, but that's exactly where i've come from...

Rebecca

[myrat]

Hi, in response to your question, i have always felt that i was born in the wrong body, and as a child would regularly pray that by some miracle i could be changed into a girl. My mother would dress me up in my sisters clothes every Sunday,which was the highlight of the week.As i got older this stopped but the urge to crossdress never went away, neither did the feeling of wanting to change sex,and this is still the case.Unfortunately due to domestic commitments and perhaps the lack of "guts" my lifelong dream has not been fullfilled, hence membership of this forum is so helpful. Thanks for getting back to me.

[Sarahgurl371]

Is there anyone here who believes that they are a CD/TV but are quickly moving towards being a transsexual? Or were you CD/TV and are now sure you are transsexual?

And what do you think caused your change in perception?

Or do you feel you simply labeled yourself incorrectly and you were always a latent TS?

Fiona xx

Fiona,
A good question for sure. One that I am currently struggling with every day. Started Cding at about 5 or 6. Don't know why, just did. First childhood memory is getting caught. Went thru my teens wishing I was a girl. And becomming very aroused by CDing. Like so many others, I thought this was because I wasn't intimate with anyone. I guess in retrospect, because I have always had such a negative opinion of myself, and I always thought girls had it better than me. I just remember so much wishing I was born a girl instead. I once read somewhere that one of the determining factors of not being a true TS is a thought, real or perceived, that the other sex has it better than your sex. So I guess that I have always thought I must just be a TV/TG because I have always thought women have it better or are better. Although I know that in real life women are often looked at as less than when compared to men.

I also think that if I could transition, and become a woman, fully and be able to pass and just live my life without fear of being ridiculed or outed, and shamed and so on, and was able to support myself, that I would do it in a minute. But on the other hand, I know that I can never be a true woman. Even with all the SRS, FFS, and HRT, I would still be a person who was born male, living as a female. So if I could wake up tomarrow as a real woman, I would absolutely choose that. Not to mention the possibility of chlidren.

I also feel a huge sense of time is passing by. I want to be true to myself, whatever that is. I do not want to wake up one day at the age of 60 or so, and realise that life passed me by, and that I wasted it, conforming to what others wanted me to be. I too have always felt a kinship with TS people. Whenever I read about or see thier stories, I seem to always relate to thier feelings. I don't know if its just because I want so badly to be a woman, or because deep down I should have been born one physically.

I related a scale to my wife one day when we were having a talk about all this, as I was trying to help her understand me. I said that in general terms as in life and such, you know, hunter / gatherer, take care of the male responsibilites, fix the car etc., I feel about 60% maybe 70% male. Sexually though, I feel more like 70% to 80% female.

F M
0%--------------------------------/----------------100% Life in general

M F
0%----------------------------------------/--------100% Sexuality

So for me there is a definate disparity in my life as in day to day events, and sexuality, and emotional feelings. I have such a hard time trying to determine IF I feel like others males emotionally, and such, or If I am truly different than "normal" males emotionally. I find myself lately, not identifying with the so called masculine personality traits, and identifying more with the feminine personality traits. I do not know, at this time, whether that is a real or perceived state of mind. I have been working on these issues for so many years now, and my fear is that i will become blinded and not see the forest thru the trees. The phsyciatrist I saw a while back recommended counseling at the PERSAD center (specializes in gay, lesbian, bi, and TG/TS) in Pittsburgh, and stated that I would probably find out alot about myself. He also stated that sometimes we have a fetish, and hold it up for others to see, so that they will not see what is truly going on under the surface. Kinda like diverting attention from the real issue. That kinda struck me.

My wife objected vehemently to counseling at PERSAD, while I feel her fear, cuz I have it too, I think that it probably would be a good idea. So the more that I think about it, I might label myself a latent transsexual, although that scares me very much. I just want to be sure, ya know? I mean we here all the talk of genetics vs. social conditioning, and I just want to be sure that it isn't social conditioning that makes me feel this way.

Sorry so long!

[Sarah Smile]

Hi Amber,

Thank you for your story which is interesting because you haven't really cross dressed so your female personna has not developed through experiencing 'being a woman'. In some ways it is quite like F2M story I read some time back elsewhere - he had by his own admission the perfect petite female body and dressing seemed impossible.

You are 32 now - when did you start feeling you were transgendered? Do you think you will now move on to dressing fully?

Fiona xx

Hi, Fiona

I guess I only really started feeling transgendered (as in, "I know what transgendered is, and this is what I am) about a year or two ago. Before that, I didn't think of it that way. I saw myself as male, but with many feminine characteristics, i.e. a not-really-macho guy.

I think I will move on to dressing fully, but probably not soon. In a sense, I have not really adjusted to this new worldview that has me as female inside. It is still a strange concept to me. I've only in the past couple of months started thinking of myself as more (much more) than "50% female" inside. So much of my self-image as female was buried for so long that I am wondering if there is more of me I still need to unearth. Part of me does want to dress fully, but frankly I find alot about becoming female daunting and scary. Basically what it boils down to is is that I feel female inside, but do I want to go through all the hassle of making the outside match or do I want to stay a male who is very different from almost all other males? I don't know yet.

[Sarah Smile]

The 'chicken and egg' question is quite important to me - its partly why I'm asking these questions. Among other things, I want to know if there is a percentage of TSs who are sure they were previously CD - and have moved accross the spectrum.

I think it depends on how you define CD and TS. Using myself as an example, if you think of CD as being about behavior, then, yes I was definitely CD before and am either TG or TS now, because my true gender identity was so deeply buried that I was not aware of it. If you think of CD as an internal identity, then I would have to say no, I was always TG or TS, but did not realize it early on, so I behaved as a guy who liked wearing female clothes.

[FionaAlexis]

Anyway, I never crossdressed all that much, and just tried to supress my feminine ambitions, constructing a totally normal and convincing male persona - I even got married!........

Anyway, I firmly fall into what most people would classify as a secondary transsexual - ie. someone who developed a male persona and supressed their true female one, but still had a deep inner desire to be a girl from their teenage years.

Thanks Kate - so you merely flirted with dressing before redefining yourself. What do you think triggered the change in your perception? Was there one moment or one incident? Or a more gradual realisation?

You're not alone in getting married. Are you M2F hetero?

That's a definition of 'secondary TS' I haven't seen before - well the term 'secondary TS' was new to me until recently. I previously recognised the term 'late onset TS'.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

Hey, Fiona:

After that I started taking more female hormones to deal with PCOS (poly-cystic ovary syndrome) and my male side went into a coma. At that time I didn't feel completely like either a male or female and my clothes reflected it. I wore mostly non-gender specific clothing and my sexual orientation became asexual (although I was still attracted to boys)......

As far as CDing, at first my desire to crossdress returned, then as months progressed and my male side became stronger, I started to realize that it was more than crossdressing. When I stopped taking the hormones I felt about 25% male and 75% female. After about eight months the feeling was 50/50 and now, a complete year later the pendulum has definitely swung the other way.

Hi CaptLex,

When you were a child were you considered to be a tomboy? I have thought F2M TSs have it easier as a child because their male behaviour is more 'acceptable'. Was that the case?

Your 'femininity' was drug induced but did it remove all gender confusion thoughts from your mind? Or did you still feel unreal and confused and things weren't right?

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

I first asked for treatment for my gender issues when i was 19, back in 1992, and as i was depressed, i was refused treatment, and then tried to make a "male life" for myself... wife, children, mortgage, 2 cars, own business and allt he sorts of things people expect from a "succesful" bloke... I even stopped Xdressing because my partner asked me to before we married, so i did for getting on for 6 years. I was so convinced i would never pass as a woman, i was told by the junior psychiatrist who treated me back in 1992 that i was too big, too ugly, too hairy, too tall to ever pass as a woman, and that kind of negative criticism really had an impact on me... I just dived into a "male construction", i took to comfort eating and being quite socially withdrawn, i put weight on, and in that time, i put on about 7 stone...

Hi Rebecca - how are you? I've seen your posts elsewhere.

You really recognised you were TS, or at least were GD, earlier on? I can relate to your bad experiences with the psychiatrist [s]. I also had a bad experience were he final comment after rejection was 'don't go bush' - meaning don't DIY a transition. This also resulted in me trying to shoehorn myself into the normal male life.

Did you marry after your bad psych experience? Or was marriage always on the cards for you?

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

I also think that if I could transition, and become a woman, fully and be able to pass and just live my life without fear of being ridiculed or outed, and shamed and so on, and was able to support myself, that I would do it in a minute. But on the other hand, I know that I can never be a true woman. Even with all the SRS, FFS, and HRT, I would still be a person who was born male, living as a female. So if I could wake up tomarrow as a real woman, I would absolutely choose that. Not to mention the possibility of chlidren.

Hi Tammy,

I can relate very much to what you say here. I wrote a piece called 'Unsatisfactory Solutions' which is on here. Can you read it and see if it resonates with you. Do you see your stance as almost TS perfectionist - 'yes I'd transition if I you get the perfect result.'

I understand your scales but is the life in general one - simply because of perceived obligation? Are their times of problem in your male life when you feel I can't respond to this as a male. Or if I was female I would respond differently.

Fiona xx

[FionaAlexis]

If you think of CD as an internal identity, then I would have to say no, I was always TG or TS, but did not realize it early on, so I behaved as a guy who liked wearing female clothes.

Thanks Amber.

[FionaAlexis]

i have always felt that i was born in the wrong body, and as a child would regularly pray that by some miracle i could be changed into a girl.

Thanks Myra.

[CaptLex]

Hi CaptLex,

When you were a child were you considered to be a tomboy? I have thought F2M TSs have it easier as a child because their male behaviour is more 'acceptable'. Was that the case?

Your 'femininity' was drug induced but did it remove all gender confusion thoughts from your mind? Or did you still feel unreal and confused and things weren't right?

Fiona xx

Hi again, Fiona:

To answer your questions:

(1) My parents are very "traditional" (for lack of a better word) and very much discouraged me from behaving as anything other than a proper young lady. So, it certainly wasn't acceptable to them that I try to emulate male behavior - although they didn't have a problem with my love of baseball since everyone in the family is a big fan. Also I remember I had a problem in kindergarten when I tried to play with the boys (and their vehicles) - the teacher kept directing me back to the girls' side of the room to play with them (and their dolls). Very sexist nowadays, I think, but back then it was the norm.

(2) As to the second question: I think the female hormones made me more confused. I didn't quite feel like myself, but I had no idea why. The only time I felt any sense of normalcy was before the hormones took over and that feeling is returning now that I've stopped taking them. As I described it to my son, for all that time I felt like an arm had been cut off and I had to learn to live without it (possible, but not preferable), but now it feels like my arm has miraculously returned and I'd do anything to make sure I never lose it again.

This has been an interesting topic - I've learned a lot from all the other responses.

[FionaAlexis]

As to the second question: I think the female hormones made me more confused. I didn't quite feel like myself, but I had no idea why. The only time I felt any sense of normalcy was before the hormones took over and that feeling is returning now that I've stopped taking them. As I described it to my son, for all that time I felt like an arm had been cut off and I had to learn to live without it (possible, but not preferable), but now it feels like my arm has miraculously returned and I'd do anything to make sure I never lose it again.

This has been an interesting topic - I've learned a lot from all the other responses.

Well a few of my preconceived notions are out the window.

I'm getting off my main questions now - but how did you deal with 'motherhood'? Many of M2Fs have fathered children and some of us wish we were mothers. My own partner is always sensitive to the two 'mothers' syndrome and will remind me - even though I am not full time.

Fiona xx

[Elizabeth]

Hi girls,

Hi Elizabeth,

I take it you were a lifelong 'CD' who has more recently recognised you are TS. Are you in a similar position as Monica inasmuch you feel time is running out and there is a great urgency to deal with it?

The 'sexuality' breakdown you proved doesn't include 'asexual' ?

Fiona xx

FionaAlexis,

It was not that I recently discovered I was TS, I have known since I was 9 years old. What I meant when I said "hiding out as crossdressers", was that I thought by underdressing, and crossdressing when I could, I could satisfy the need. However, it turns out that it usually does not meet the need. It seems that it takes until around age 40 for one to realize that one gets tired of hating oneself for not accepting the truth about our gender. In my case I took 35 vicodin in an attempt to kill myself before I decided to accept the truth about me.

I know there are those who do not realize they are TS until later in life. I was refering more to those who have known since childhood, but denied it. Sorry I was not clear on this point.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[FionaAlexis]

It was not that I recently discovered I was TS, I have known since I was 9 years old. What I meant when I said "hiding out as crossdressers", was that I thought by underdressing, and crossdressing when I could, I could satisfy the need.

Thank you Elizabeth. I understand.

I hope things are going well for you now.

Fiona xx

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I'm simply interested in whether some TSs evolve from years of cd-ing and the development of a female personna rather than an awareness from an early age. I accept that both are transgendered at birth and both end up transsexual.

Richard Docter in his "Transvestite and Transsexuals" (which is one of the more in-depth works on CDing) argued that there are a few cases where CDs develop a secondary feminine personality that eventually replaces the original male personality, leading them to transition. As Helana said, it can be a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation, since would-be transitioners may retroactively decide they were always TS. In some sense it's irrelevant, if regardless of the origin if someone decide they can't continue living as their birth gender.

[FionaAlexis]

Thanks Marlena - and I have quoted similar thoughts myself elsewhere. I simply want to see how people see themselves and if anyone sees themselves as formerly a CD or TV. Or if anyone feels they are moving towards being TS.

I don't think any of the responses so far don't really substantiate the development of a female/male personna. My conception would be of a long time dresser, who has probably been going out as a female/male and this activity has increased over time until the female/male personna becomes the more dominant. Those people who have responded seem mostly inexperienced or less experienced CD-ers, who have not spent enough time in their self assessed gender to feed an internalisation path.

Fiona xx

[CaptLex]

I'm getting off my main questions now - but how did you deal with 'motherhood'? Many of M2Fs have fathered children and some of us wish we were mothers. My own partner is always sensitive to the two 'mothers' syndrome and will remind me - even though I am not full time.

Fiona xx

Well, parenthood has been interesting for me. I say parenthood instead of motherhood because I guess I always felt like my son's mother and father at the same time - but maybe it's because I'm a single parent. In fact, when he was little (he's 24 now) he'd sometimes call me "Mom" and sometimes "Pop". And I've always told him I'm glad he was born a boy because we always had fun playing with his toys together, and if I had a girl I may have had to play with things I don't like (like Barbies).

Even as a kid I remember knowing that I wanted children someday, and even though I had a hard time believing I could have them physically, I hoped I could because I really wanted to know what the whole experience would be like. Once it happened, I was happy to have been through it, but it wasn't something I thought I needed to go through again. But I'm glad I had him and, in fact, I console myself about not coming to terms with my situation sooner by saying that if I had, I may not have had my son, and he's very important to me, so things happened the way they happened for a reason.

I am happy and relieved that my son is a happy, smart, funny, caring, mature, open-minded/tolerant individual who thinks on his own and doesn't follow the crowd. I hope I had something to do with that, but in either case, I'm very proud of him and we get along really well and have lots in common. Actually, it may sound strange, but I felt almost from the day he was born that he and I were so connected we must have known each other in another life. We've both always known that I'm not like other mothers, and now we know why and can laugh about it. Fortunately, my being different didn't hinder his upbringing or our relationship.

[Sarahgurl371]

Hi Tammy,

I can relate very much to what you say here. I wrote a piece called 'Unsatisfactory Solutions' which is on here. Can you read it and see if it resonates with you. Do you see your stance as almost TS perfectionist - 'yes I'd transition if I you get the perfect result.'

I understand your scales but is the life in general one - simply because of perceived obligation? Are their times of problem in your male life when you feel I can't respond to this as a male. Or if I was female I would respond differently.

Fiona xx

Fiona, I read your post "unsatisfactory solutions". It definatley struck an accord with me. Especially the part about questioning and thinking about gender everyday. I have always wondered if "normal" people ever question thier gender. I have to imagine that they probably do not, and I very much envy that fact. I have been caught up in this quagmire of what am I for so long now, and have spent, (don't know about wasted), so much time and energy, fighting and struggling both for myself and against myself. Sometimes I just wish for peace and quiet in my head. Can you relate to that?

It also concerns me that maybe this all is an unhealty obsession, and not a fact of life for me. I guess that is why I sought counseling. I just want to make sure that I do not have an addiction or something along those lines. If these are the true facts of my life, I will deal with them. But if I am unhealty mentally, I need to know that and fix it.

As far as the TS Perfectionist part, I would suppose that all of us (humans), want to be our best. That means look our best, be better people personality wise, the best in our careers etc. So as far as being a total woman, its not for vanity reasons. I would be very happy to just be a normal looking female, able to get by in the world. But I often wonder, if I transitioned, would all this "stuff" go away, and I would just be me, and peaceful, and happy? And would i feel natural? Would I like what I see looking back at me? Or would I feel about myself, like I think other people think about people like us?

As far as my scales go, yes, I do beleive a certain amount of that to be social conditioning. Although my parents both know and have expressed support for my CDing activities, I do not think they know how deep this runs. How could they, I don't. But that being said, I was raised by a very strong man, my father, who raised me to be a very strong man as well. I was taught responsibilty above all else. And since I live as a man, I assume all that responsibility. Many times in my life I have not felt like a man dealing with an issue, but I have to suck it up, and prevail above those situations. I have never been very aggressive, and certainlly not a fighter. I have never been in a fist fight. While I know that is not a precursor for being male, I can't help but think of friends who are so overtly masculine and agressive in thier everday life. Maybe thats where some of my problem lies with others. I always show every one else compassion and respect, and give them opportunity and chance to be themselves and allow thier perceived shortcommings, or idiosyncracies. All the while expecting that in return. But seldom receive it. And another point on responsibilities, I often wonder now if I am using my responsibility as a husband to keep me kind of restrained from following my self. thinking to my self that I will ruin her life.

Perhaps that is what is so damn confusing about all this to me. I do not think that I view the world with male eyes. But I was born male, and raised as such. Why then do I have all these feelings and struggles with my gender identity? Which is what leads me to believe that there is something more under the surface, that I have yet to discover. At least I hope so. Cuz otherwise I must just be insane and making all this up.

[BeckyCath]

Hi Rebecca - how are you? I've seen your posts elsewhere.

Hi Fiona, I'm doing well thank you, how are you? Been missing you in the english Rose garden...

You really recognised you were TS, or at least were GD, earlier on?

Yes i guess i did... i always identified easier with the girls, and i remember at about age 5, one of my cousin dressing me as a girl, for a "family play" with her brother and my brother, and i remember doing the part, and feeling like i was actually being real... but i didn't actually conect then, it took me till i was a bout 13 to realise, and every night i went to bed and prayed that i would wake up female, and this male lark would have been some awful night mare...

I can relate to your bad experiences with the psychiatrist [s]. I also had a bad experience were he final comment after rejection was 'don't go bush' - meaning don't DIY a transition. This also resulted in me trying to shoehorn myself into the normal male life.

They can easily screw someone up... but back in the early 90's, even tho it was more "acceptable" not as much theorising and research had ben done, so we were kind of stuck with old school stuff, and if the psychiatrist had no interest in gender psychology, then there was no help given really...

Did you marry after your bad psych experience? Or was marriage always on the cards for you?

I married after my breakdown, i married at 23, 2 weeks before my 24th birthday, and i had spent the prior 3 years trying to get my head round my feelings... The night i told my partner to be i was a transvestite... i had decided if she ditched me i would move back up north and transition...

Sometimes i wish she had ditched me, there would have been less complications like there is now, but then i wouldn't have had 10 years life experience that has mouldd my character for the better... it's a double edged sword i guess...

Does this help?

Rebecca

[Deborah757]

What comes first, CD or TS? In my case I cannot honestly remember. I started to CD around age 10 when I was in the seventh grade. I also recognized myself as TS at the same time. I specifically remember that at around that time (1971) I realized that I was a boy and that I felt I was supposed to be a girl. I even had all sorts of fantasy daydreams about how technology or science could fix that problem.

I didn’t know what a TS was or that even such a thing existed. I only knew what I felt to be the truth. I didn’t even realize that I was not the only one who felt this way until I saw a picture in Hustler Magazine a few years later

At the time, I did not really even know what the differences between boys and girls were. Of course I knew that I had something that they did not, but I had no idea that they had something else. In hindsight, even I find this hard to believe, but it is true. I do remember the specific incident, around this same time, when my friend’s sister informed me as to the difference between the two.

As I look back over my early years I cannot point to anything that would indicate that I knew was I was TS or anything that can prove I was not. I only remember being in ignorant bliss as to the true nature of the differences between male and female.

So, which came first, the chicken or the egg? Who am I? What am I? Does anyone really know?

Deborah