Question to the CDers who would date a man

[NicoleScott]

I kind of have a different take on this issue. For me I see it not as an attraction to the Cross-dresser but to Cross-dressing. In an algebra problem to solve for X you have to eliminate all other variables. If you take the man out of the dress he is no longer attractive. What was attractive was the act of dressing. To a CDer seeing cross-dressing done well can stir highly charged emotions such as envy or aspiration. From my own experience I believe cross-dressing is rooted in ones sex-drive whether or not the individual CDer does anything fetishistic or feels fetishistic about their cross-dressing. The act or just the thought of a man appearing as a woman in itself alone is the source of attraction.

RD, you break it down pertty well. If you're no longer attracted to the man when he's not en femme, then it wasn't the man you were attracted to, but something else. You suggest it's the act of CDing. While the act of CDing has always been interesting to me, I am more interested in...and attracted to...the finished product of the act of CDing. I'm attracted to beauty, whether GG or CDer. It's a visual thing and removed from the person, personality, sex, or gender beneath. Those things that I find glamorous, pretty, sexy, exciting, and arousing in GG's I see the same way in CDers. Yes, I'm pretty superficial about CDing.

[ReineD]

A counter-question to ponder about.. Would a woman consider herself bisexual if she dated a cd'er even though a cd'er is a male? Why don't typical women not want a cd'er as a cd'er is still, by defn, a male?

This is an easy one for me to answer. I was enamored with my SO before I knew about the CDing. And when s/he told me, I was open minded enough and had a big enough crush on him to not immediately take it that s/he wasn't for me. I was willing to learn. But, had I known that s/he was bigender before having fallen in love, I likely would have moved on. I simply did not understand enough about gender non-conformity then.

[NicoleScott]

So tell me what you think. Do you see CDers (not the Gender-Fluid or Transsexuals) as men or women?

I SEE CDers as women but I KNOW they're men.

[ReluctantDebutant]

Nicole, I see what you mean and I agree. The portraying of a feminine image is key. I feel I should revise it to say that its not just about the Cross-dressing. I find that much of being a MtoF CDer is about being enamored with women, feminine beauty, etc... So a GG does not need to do too much to earn a CDer's attention. But for the topic of a man to gain that same attention he has to present a very feminine finished product. But the only way he could get there is by Cross-dressing.

[Brooklyn]

I've observed in nightclubs that the men (CD or otherwise) who are attracted to CDers are also attracted to pre-op TS's. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference unless you ask. But CDers are male, and TS's are female, right? Doesn't this indicate that what interests trans-ams and some CDers has nothing to do with gender identity, but simply the female physical presentation with the male genitalia? If not, please enlighten me on what these folks are after!

[ReineD]

Ashley, it makes sense that if someone has a preference for CDers over GGs or men who do not dress, then it means they like someone who presents as a woman, but with that added bit of anatomy that a GG doesn't have. Which can really put a CDer in a quandary if she wants to be seen as a GG, doesn't it? ... unless the CD is in it for the sex?

Again, thanks for your responses, everyone!

[Erica2Sweet]

Once I began to better understand how gender identity and attraction work for those of us who blur gender lines, I realized what I think a lot of us simply refuse to admit. It is that those who find men attractive when they are in femme mode also find men attractive in boy mode, they simply do not allow themselves to admit it in order to protect the male ego and keep it as intact as possible.

A lot of CDers will argue with this until they're blue in the face, but I think many simply do not realize how their subconscious works to protect the ego, and honestly, most of the time, they do feel internally as though they are being honest with regard to their non-attraction to the male form while in drab mode. But, if those individuals did some real, unfettered soul-searching, I personally am convinced they would find that the girly clothes they are wearing are just a motivator to become more sexually charged (aroused) and thus more open to, and responsive to, sexual stimuli. Being in girl mode very easily becomes an excuse to be OK with being into guys, because the excuse of "having a girly side" is often enough to protect the ego, if one negotiates the concession properly with their subconscious.

I found that once I let go of this, and believe me, it was a struggle, then I realized I was correct in my suspicion, and also that the pool of people that I can be attracted to grew by nearly 100%. It's also nice to, for once, be able to be honest about seeing a cute guy and not having all the internal negative noise going on... Ahh, sweet freedom!

[Girl]

I found that once I let go of this, and believe me, it was a struggle, then I realized I was correct in my suspicion, and also that the pool of people that I can be attracted to grew by nearly 100%. It's also nice to, for once, be able to be honest about seeing a cute guy and not having all the internal negative noise going on... Ahh, sweet freedom!

Erica you explain it perfectly in a way which I couldn't because of my English. It's exactly how I feel! When I see cute guys, it's a wonderful feeling not to resist their cuteness!

[Mistress Roxy]

I'm attracted to beauty, whether GG or CDer. It's a visual thing and removed from the person, personality, sex, or gender beneath. Those things that I find glamorous, pretty, sexy, exciting, and arousing in GG's I see the same way in CDers. Yes, I'm pretty superficial about CDing.

Perhaps, this is the key for enjoying. Be pretty and feel attractive is more important for many of us, GG's and Cds. Since we were children, we found beauty is deeply associated to the classical concept of femininity

[Marcelle]

... I realized what I think a lot of us simply refuse to admit. It is that those who find men attractive when they are in femme mode also find men attractive in boy mode, they simply do not allow themselves to admit it in order to protect the male ego and keep it as intact as possible.

... being in girl mode very easily becomes an excuse to be OK with being into guys, because the excuse of "having a girly side" is often enough to protect the ego, if one negotiates the concession properly with their subconscious.

Hi Erica. I would agree on a fundamental level with your observations. If a CDer finds men attractive in femme mode, they most likely find men attractive in "boy" mode. But this is a function of sexuality (homosexual / bi-sexual) underpinnings not gender identity. Yes it is plausible that the CDer my be TS and thus it could be gender identity but that is not always the case.

Protecting the male ego . . . plausible as long as the homo/bi-sexual feelings are being repressed. If they are not, then ego is not an issue and the CDer will most likely explore relationships.

I don't think it is as simple as I am dressed girly so I can now go after guys. I dress very girly and I have to say . . . I like the ladies and that is it. No repression, no desires, no fantasy. Just a guy who likes to dress like a woman from time to time.

My two cents.

Hugs

Isha

[Erica2Sweet]

...I don't think it is as simple as I am dressed girly so I can now go after guys. I dress very girly and I have to say . . . I like the ladies and that is it. No repression, no desires, no fantasy. Just a guy who likes to dress like a woman from time to time...

I knew that not much time would pass before someone would come by and assert their hetero-only feelings on the matter. It's great that you do know yourself well. I thought I did also, up until less than a year ago when I started to look at my attractions and realized something internally wasn't gelling.

Also, just for the record, I'm in no way insinuating that ALL CDers are repressing an attraction to men. That's not at all what I wrote above.

[kellibra]

strong attraction to femininity, imagining living vicariously as a woman experiencing her sexuality is what triggers it all for me. does not really matter i think what form this assumes as long as 'she' passes well and convincingly.

[AndreaCD1963]

For me, as a bi male, I'm attracted to both GG's and GM's ... and a cd is still a GM, with all the parts that go along with that. My personal preference with regards to men, is a masculine man - I can be femme enough for both of us So generally speaking, when I WAS dating (past tense, I don't anymore), my preference was to not knowingly pursue and date another CD.

[Skittles]

For me it's kinda like I love having sex with a guy.
But I love the beauty of a a woman.
A woman doing me is not the same as a real person.

[NicoleScott]

It is that those who find men attractive when they are in femme mode also find men attractive in boy mode, they simply do not allow themselves to admit it in order to protect the male ego and keep it as intact as possible.

If a CDer finds men attractive in femme mode, they most likely find men attractive in "boy" mode.

I have some confusion over the use of "they" in both quotes above. I am assuming you both mean the CDer that is being observed rather than the CDer doing the observing (which is a different matter). If I see a beautiful person with all the attributes that I like in a woman (face, hair, legs, clothes, makeup, etc.) I would be attracted. If that person turns out to be a man, I'm still attracted (not to mention impressed) to the beauty but nothing more. We should be careful not to assume others know what we mean when we say "attracted to". It may or may not mean "sexually attracted to". The attraction may be just what the eyes see without any regard to what's underneath.

[Mssusan]

A counter-question to ponder about.. Would a woman consider herself bisexual if she dated a cd'er even though a cd'er is a male? Why don't typical women not want a cd'er as a cd'er is still, by defn, a male?

Oh this brings up so many GG issues!

I am dating a CD guy. I am fine with him dressing when we are hanging out, to whatever degree he likes. I look forward to having a girls night in soon and doing makeovers, nails, etc.

When it's time for bed, though, I want my man back.

I am attracted to beauty of all types, but I am sexually attracted to male presentation and male parts.

I guess that means I am strictly hetero.

[jenni_xx]

Me, I call them whatever they want to be called at the moment. If a person is presenting as a woman and gives a female name, then I presume that female pronouns are appropriate for the moment (unless I've been told otherwise). And if someone else leaned over and asked me "is that person a woman?" I would say yes and change the subject. Would you say: "No, that's a man dressed as a woman"?

Yes, I would say that. Because that would truthfully answer the question being asked. It may be more pertinent to say to reply by saying "that's a man who identifies and presents himself as a woman", but that doesn't mean that he is a woman.

It's all well and good using female pronouns - that just adds to how many cd's want to be addressed. As Lorileah stated - using a feminine pronoun on this forum for example is regarded as the correct one to use. Because it's a forum in which we are all presenting ourselves, and discussing issues that revolve around, femininity.

As for Reine's question in her original post, as a gay man I am not attracted to cd's. But I understand why a man who identifies himself as heterosexual would find attraction to cd's, because cd's present themselves as female, and straight men are attracted to females. If anything, for a cd who straight men find attractive, it becomes a, for want of a better word, validation as to how successfully they present as women. An acid test so to speak. As for those who are attracted to cd's, it's probably the case that this will be something that they rarely, if ever, act upon. Or in other words, it's something that stays well within the realm of fantasy - just something that they wonder what it would be like. That, in my opinion, doesn't make such a person gay, or bisexual. And it's something that some cd's may wonder about because they would be entering into an encounter (or relationship) with someone who their share a common interest with.

Of course, when it boils down to it in reality, then when the time comes, the clothes come off anyway, so at such a time the illusion of visual femininity that cd's give off is removed, and a male body is what will stand before them. Would that still be attractive such cd's? If so, then the fantasy which is now a reality does suggest that they are at least bisexual. If such a time (when it remains a fantasy) doesn't enter their own thought process, well, that's why it will only ever remain a fantasy for them.

[ReineD]

If that person turns out to be a man, I'm still attracted (not to mention impressed) to the beauty but nothing more. We should be careful not to assume others know what we mean when we say "attracted to". It may or may not mean "sexually attracted to".

This is true, Nicole. A lot of people are able to discern beauty in others and in this sense, they find these others attractive. Like saying, "I think this woman is beautiful or attractive", or "This man is very handsome or attractive".

But ... they are not attracted TO them, which implies a sexual attraction. This is what I meant in my OP.

As for Reine's question in her original post, as a gay man I am not attracted to cd's. But I understand why a man who identifies himself as heterosexual would find attraction to cd's, because cd's present themselves as female, and straight men are attracted to females.

Actually, I was wanting to know why so many CDers said they were attracted to CDers but NOT to men. It's a paradox, because crossdressers are men fundamentally, even when they present as women? As you say, when the clothes come off everyone is naked.

[Bridgetlagurl]

I am not attracted to CDs or TGs in a sexual way. I want to have them as girl friends, because I see them as women.
I have one woman in my life as a sexual partner and that is my wife. Strangely enough she is attracted to CDs and TG males.
As clear as you tried to make your question, and it was clear. There is no clear answer. I am bi, so if I am going to be with a man I want him big and hairy, I want my role as the woman to be clear cut. My wife is also bi, so as I have become more fem, our sex lives have change to more of girl girl, kind of hard to sit and have a girl movie night, then go to bed and I am suppose to be all man like, well still wearing a bra and panties.

... or to anyone else, really, but mostly to the CDers who are attracted to men while dressed.


There have been several long and well attended threads asking about attraction to men while dressed. Many of the responses are positive. There is currently such a thread.

This is what puzzles me:

A lof of CDers say that they are not attracted to men while dressed so much as they're attracted to other CDers.

Question: By definition, a CDer is a male. Why do some people here make it sound as if CDers are not male?

Thanks in advance for all your responses!

[jenni_xx]

Actually, I was wanting to know why so many CDers said they were attracted to CDers but NOT to men. It's a paradox, because crossdressers are men fundamentally, even when they present as women? As you say, when the clothes come off everyone is naked.

My repy was intent on addressing that very paradox. CD's are men, but when they present as woman - and do so successfully, I can understand why a heterosexual man would be attracted to them. But in light of your question, as I indicated in my previous post, conflict is undoubtedly present in that how far exactly does that attraction go? Once all the clothes are off, is the attraction still there? That's what I meant when I wondered in my previous post about whether such men (who identify themselves as heterosexual) are actually (at least) bisexual. Or whether it's an attraction that is based, not on reality (that is, it actually happening), but merely on fantasy.

I suppose another facit of it could be that the attraction that such men feel is based around projection. That is, finding a cd attractive because they are projecting their own ideals (as to how they wish to be perceived as a cd) onto that person. Which, in such cases, would mean that even though another person (man) is involved, any sexual act should it happen is a rather selfish encounter - only in it for themselves kind of thing. In that respect, if it is the case (and I suspect that when heterosexual cd's do claim to be attracted to other cd's), there would never be any chance of their interaction with another cd becoming a long term relationship. In other words, those heterosexual cd's who do say that they are attracted to other cd's, we're probably talking about one-night stand-type scenarios. Which again brings it back into the realm of fantasy.

[ReineD]

Jenni, I agree. If the sexual attraction is real, then it would be there in guy mode too and the CDer would be bisexual. And there would be a desire for a relationship and not just for sex.

Thanks for your continued responses everyone!

[Janet Bern]

Not interested in men at all...

[MMollyB88]

I SEE CDers as women but I KNOW they're men.

I am the same way. I treat other crossdressers as if they are really a woman, unless they stated otherwise. I am also like you in that I am somewhat superficial with crossdressing. I fully envelope that I am a female and want to look the best that I can in that aspect. Also, if I was with another "crossdresser"(such a vague/general word for me as I feel I AM a girl when in this mode) that felt the same way I did I would take it that we were being lesbians at that time. As you can see, I do not see myself as a boy in a dress, but an actual girl. I believe we are made up of different spirits, so obviously I have a strong female spirit in me at these times. And FYI and to sum up the original question, I am bisexual no matter what persona I am in and would view being with another CD while in my girl persona as being with another girl, and being with another man as me being a girl with a man, duh.

[Talisker]

Question: By definition, a CDer is a male. Why do some people here make it sound as if CDers are not male?

)

I am stimulated visually by the female form and items of clothing. I would (hopefully) know a CD is male but if they appear as an attractive female then i am stimulated by that. Likewise i can also be stimulated by myself in the mirror when giving the appearance of a female. And of course GGs.

I also see a difference between attraction to fantasy / sex and a long term relationship.

Anyone else feel the same way?

[seanmuscle]

Jenni, I agree. If the sexual attraction is real, then it would be there in guy mode too and the CDer would be bisexual. And there would be a desire for a relationship and not just for sex.

Thanks for your continued responses everyone!

Its quite simple Reine. CDers are everything a woman is supposed to be. The look, the feel, the femininity and gentle nature. Straight men are attracted to this. You have to remember straight men are only attracted to Cds that can pass as genetic girls. Not a big muscular hairy guy in a dress. Hence the reason a lot of guys are attracted to asian CDers because they are generally the same size as western women and can pull off the feminine look so well.