Are we, as a group too suspicious and not supportive enough?

[Marleena]

When I first came over to this section I made sure I already had my letter and had started HRT. Why? Mostly because of the the fact I saw that a lot of time is spent being suspicious of new (TS) members. For the longest time I didn't feel like I fit in. It was like I had to keep proving I was a (TS) woman and if I said anything that seemed, or was wrong, it was like I had to keep proving myself. I do admit I read very little on the subject before posting here so I might have brought some of it on myself. My only concern at that time was me and controlling the GD.

So my question is if a new member or even an established member has gone the WPATH route and has cleared the gatekeepers to start transition why is there still suspicion?

Quite a few of us have gone as far as to prove we're real and not fakes. At what point do we accept people as TS and real? Are we being supportive enough or is too much time spent trying to discredit people?

I'll add this link about the supposed heirarchy for TS women for you all to ponder. It shows just how different we all can be.

http://www.avitale.com/PrimarySecondary.htm

[Angela Campbell]

I think the experiences and viewpoints vary as much as people do. No one will see things as I do and I cannot see things as you do. If someone thinks I am fake, I really don't care. I know what I am, what I am going through, and how I feel. No one else here has experienced the same or has the same preferences and opinions as I do. The reality is there are a lot of things that we all have in common, and we see it in each other, but after living a life of covering up and hiding and lying it makes sense not to be too trusting. At anytime the wrong words can hurt us and no one knows what those words are.

[Marleena]

I would like to thank Tamara right now for keeping an eye on the members. She has done a good job of exposing fakes.

Thanks Angela the tone of this forum has changed a lot for the better. I'm hoping this stays just a discussion and we continue to support each other.

[Badtranny]

As someone who is pretty open about not trusting anyone's words here I think I can explain my position at least.

In regard to the "real TS" issue, it only means one thing to me; I want people to be talking about actual real experiences because TS questioners need to hear real information and not fantasies or wishes.

I obviously have no way of knowing who the real deal is via this forum so all I can go by is my own experience and when somebody posts something that is unfamiliar to me I will follow up with a question. Sometimes the question sounds snarky because sometimes it is. It all depends on how touchy my BS meter is that day.

Who am I to judge? Nobody special that's for sure, and the last thing I want to be is some kind of guardian of the T brigade. The only reason it matters to me is because I distinctly remember what it was like to be playing around with cross dressing and questioning my identity. I was basically a blank slate and the words I read here were imprinted on me and most of them needed to be erased. Unfortunately white boards are difficult to erase completely and the old useless information just served to clutter up my once blank slate. I may have not wasted a year trying to figure myself out if there were more brutally honest and unapologetic people like me.

We recently lost one longtime member who was a fake and that hurt because I really looked up to that person. Her fraud was only possible because people never asked her the tough questions and by the time I joined she was already an established TS member. I was new, so I wasn't going to question her on some of her comments. She gave a lot of advice and a lot of opinions on a subject and a life that turned out to be unfamiliar to her.

The only reason I'm here is to share my experience for people that are coming behind me on the transition path. I am brassy and mouthy, and cranky, and rude, and a lot of other things, but I am 100% honest about my situation and as long as I am here being completely honest, I will expect the same from other people who claim to be living this life. People who are honestly questioning need honest field reports. If somebody comes in here talking about how wonderful their first week of transition was, I'm going to call BS and ask for some details. They do NOT have to prove anything to me, I don't personally care if they're real or not, my interest is for the questioners. I want them to know that this person is suspect.

Just a couple of weeks ago, a new member was busted for being a fraud. I don't remember her username but she kept posting about how wonderful it was to have SRS and it turned out that she was a total fake. What if I was considering SRS and I PM'd her for advice? How would you feel if you found out you were being advised about SRS by some dude with a tranny fetish? I'm not a postie and I'm not interested in SRS so I didn't really get into it even though I smelled a rat from day one. I was curious about why none of the Posties around here confronted her though.

No, I have no way of knowing how sincere or authentic someone is, but I care about their claims because I was once there myself. I was a newbie who was vulnerable to BS just like every other newbie. So I have no problem or concern if somebody wants to pretend to be TS and have a fake life on this board, but outrageous claims require outrageous proof. The people who are struggling with REAL TS lives deserve at least that.

[Kathryn Martin]

I think there is no hierarchy of transsexualism. The classifications by Person and Ovesey have proven to be quite useless and likewise have the classifications by Blanchard and Bailey and the like. For me it is more about differentiation based on medical need and required outcomes.

It really comes down to this: If you require to be whole and complete full transition including hormones and surgery then you are transsexual. If you require a presentation as the gender that does not match your birth sex to fully express yourself as a human being which can sometimes include hormones then you are gender variant. Each one has it's unique challenges and medical needs.

I am not suspicious but rather think when I see new members: show me!

[LeaP]

Regarding support itself, I think the balance is about right. The depth of open forum support is limited anyway. There is more substantive support that goes on behind the scenes, one on one.

Is there often suspicion expressed? Yes. Is it justified? Unfortunately, it is, all too often. Beyond the high-profile fakes, I am aware of long-term members who have encountered many others, again and again and again. It's just a fact of life that forums like this attract a certain amount of BS and fantasy participants. Unfortunately, it intersects with people whose life concerns are quite serious, as you know. So I think the suspicion is justified.

Even so, I still see plenty of posts from new members and new posters in the TS section receiving serious responses unless they are just completely and obviously full of baloney. I think the concern is for the theoretical few at the margins who may not present themselves well yet who are genuine. But mostly I think the evidence is that there are few of these. A lot of members go out of their way with marginal cases for quite a while. And there also is a small but steady stream of those whose concerns and characteristics are a bit outside the TS mainstream yet who persist and are ultimately taken in, so to speak.

[Angela Campbell]

To tell the truth you do not know how many times i have seen something here and thought.....I can't wait to see what Melissa is going to do with this one.....But I do respect the honesty.

the classifications by Blanchard and Bailey and by Person and Ovesey is so far off of what I have seen out there that I agree it is worthless.

[Marleena]

Yesterday we had a disgruntled new member that I believe left( she might have pissed the mods off too). We also had a postop woman that raised some eyebrows recently. I don't think the gatekeepers get it wrong very often, or at least statistics for successful transition are good.

As for me I have my own mess and have whined to a few of you. I'll just have to learn to live with it for now. I don't feel like I need support because I can't change much. At least things are bearable most of the time.

Thanks for the honest posts so far. My link was more to show just how different we are from each other and how we deal with things. I'm fine with it being dismissed by some of you. I just think either you're a(TS) woman or you're not.

[I Am Paula]

My question about TS fakes has always been- What the hell kind of fantasy is being TS? I don't think anybody here, given a choice, would say it's a glamorous and sexy condition, that is everything they ever dreamed about. Two thumbs up!
Don't you wish that everybody who glamorizes TS, or dreams of HRT as a way of getting AWESOME BOOBIES, could spend one day in our shoes?


Marleena's second post came in while I was typing. We will never dismiss you. You're vital, cute, and Canadian.

[Suzanne F]

So is it ok to be posting here and asking questions. I clearly state on the cross dressing forum that I am transgendered. I come here because I want to know how you have travelled down this road. I have only been out and honestly looking at my issue for 7 months now. Anyway I hope this is ok.
Suzanne

[Angela Campbell]

Sure it is ok Suzanne. This is the place to ask questions. Just keep in mind the answers are not always what some hope for, or expect.

[LeaP]

Don't you wish that everybody who glamorizes TS, or dreams of HRT as a way of getting AWESOME BOOBIES, could spend one day in our shoes?

2 weeks of Spiro would be better ...

[Angela Campbell]

2 weeks of spiro and a big hole in the wallet........and 5 hours on the electrolysis table.

[I Am Paula]

2 weeks of spiro and a big hole in the wallet........and 5 hours on the electrolysis table.

That's mean. Apropos, but mean. And they get to explain to their wives why they want to be called Gertrude from now on.

[Angela Campbell]

Mean? I was trying to be supportive.

[Cheyenne Skye]

I don't even think it would take 5 hours on the table.

[Andrea_Rae]

every trans forum i have ever visited is overwhelmingly negative, i typically don't stay long

[LeaP]

I don't know - some of the BDSM contingent might like it ...

Oh, and way to start out, Andrea.

[gonegirl]

I don't even think it would take 5 hours on the table.

For sure. The first hour is the worst and should put an end to most fantasies.

[Frances]

Actually Marlenna, some people avoided WPATH protocols and gatekeepers, and did not end up the way they had envisioned. Also, a lot of forumites will simply not take responsability for their guilt and shift it to their S.O. As someone who lost pretty much everything to do what was needed, I have a hard time with that.

There have been a lot fakes on the forum over the years, and that has made me a litlle suspicious, but I honestly think that people confuse being realistic with being unsupportive.

People have different ideas about what the protocols mean and what following them entails. I have been on the forum for 8 years. I have seen a lot of people come and go, and I am not thinking of anyone in particular. It's not about following protocols or not, but about taking responsability for one's life and the outcome. I try to support as much as I can, but self-victimization is easy to spot, you know?

[kimdl93]

I'm a bit cautious about chiming on the TS forum, because I'm somewhere towards the TS end of the spectrum, but not quite. TG or gendervariant...whatever. But I read most of the posts here, simply because I find the discussions much more interesting and more relevant to the life I lead than conversations about the color of my panties. Consequently, I am not terribly bothered by frank, realistic observations. Despite being a fairly long time member, I'm probably still a bit of a Pollyanna, and still befuddled by whatever motivates someone to fictionalize their own existence. Even more weirded out by someone who would adopt a TS persona and offer a highly fanciful version of their "transition" experience. Learning about these instances has lead me to be a tad more cynical about what I have read.

This all coming from a person who had to Google "Tastein Style".

[steftoday]

I can relate to a lot of kimdl93's post myself. I come to this part of the forum to learn and understand...

[Kimberly Kael]

I understand and respect Melissa's point and her concerns. In most forums it's a minor nuisance to have people who misrepresent themselves, but here? Coming out to people about cross-dressing can end relationships and careers, and when you add in medical aspects of a transition? Yikes. There's very real danger in setting unrealistic expectations and cheerleading people down a difficult path in life. I know I tend to emphasize the positive in my posts because I'm an optimist by nature. There's value in looking for the good in things – so long as you're realistic about the challenges and risks.

Where we differ is more in asking people to be utterly transparent about their identity. My transition isn't a secret and I don't mind being a visible advocate for our community but there are limits. My wife doesn't want our life together to be entirely public, and I have to admit that it's not ideal from a professional perspective, either. I'm open with people I've grown to trust, but I actively avoid showing up in search engines discussing my personal life.

I think there is no hierarchy of transsexualism [...] It really comes down to this: If you require to be whole and complete full transition including hormones and surgery then you are transsexual. If you require a presentation as the gender that does not match your birth sex to fully express yourself as a human being which can sometimes include hormones then you are gender variant.

That's quite the contrast between your statements here. Aren't they entirely contradictory? Or are you arguing that it's totally black and white? I disagree vigorously with your attempt to draw hard lines between identities based on criteria that are so tied to decisions rooted in economics, health, and a plethora of other unique variations among individuals.

[Kate T]

On the whole I think the TS forum is pretty supportive. All in all any questions I have posted here have been replied to with good will and a genuine attempt to help. That being from someone who does not identify as TS but rather CD / TG / bigendered / whatever other label you like.

I have found one thing though. If I post a question or a theory for discussion that questions some of the underlying beliefs expressed by many TS here then there is a tendency for responses to be dismissive rather than engaging in debate or education. Maybe I don't phrase my posts in these cases well.

I do read posts on these sections as whilst I believe TS is a different "beast" entirely to CD / TV / Bigendered etc. I like to think that reading these sections helps to increase my understanding and tolerance. I will tend to reply when I believe either the original post was not specifically intended for TS only or when I can contribute factual information (typically scientific) that may assist with answering a question.

[whowhatwhen]

I'm just a prototranny* and as such my experiences are totally different from the people already here.
There isn't a whole lot I can share or add, I simply just don't have the real world experience to provide any useful posting content.

*Meaning, I consider myself TS but at this moment I'm kinda stuck as I am for various reasons.

That being said I have this weird urge to verify myself to complete strangers on an internet forum?
Maybe it's because I respect lots of you and want to be seen as real, yet there is literally nothing I can do to prove it.

I'm still 3 months away from seeing an endo and rushing into drastic appearance changes aren't going to do any good.
I mean, I can say to people "I'm a woman, please address me as such" but the problem is I still quite obviously look like a guy, it's just asking too much.

So, in the meantime I live in trannyflux, dealing with my issues privately because I have nothing to post that anyone could relate to.
Until then all I can do is read.