The steady decline of masculinity, and crossdressing.

[Alice Torn]

Some of us remember the American culture of the 1940's and 1950's. At that time, there was no feminist movement, and the male energy was at its peak. Radio, television, movies, comics, all had the man riding high! I believe, that tue femininity was also pretty high, then, too, looking at the fashions women wore. But, something happened in the mid 1960's, and has continued to plow forward. The decline of men. The decline of respect for men, and the male energy. Poet Robert Bly hit on this in the 1990's. The feminist movement has been relentless, also. I am wondering if all this attack on maleness, has contributed to any of you's crossdressing. I believe there are cultural influences, such as, the majority of women wearing pants , the vast majority of the time, and the unmistakable declint of masculinity, since the 1960's. I think i would have dressed anyway, I think it may have had a small influence, but definitely it is there.

[Alice B]

Not at all

[Mink]

i don't think that has too much influence over why i dress... if anything it seems like an issue that a close-minded person would point out saying "look how we've lost our ways! our kids are so confused they're crossdressing! our very maleness is threatened!"

which isn't totally new...

david bowie ... don't know if yr a boy or a girl

Rebel Rebel!

[kimdl93]

Not in the least. And I pull submit that women achieving fair and at least somewhat more equitable status has not eroded males. What brings men down are their fixation with controlling others, prejudices, and apparently an unwillingness to learn

[Alice Torn]

Men have done untold evils, that contributed to it all, as far as helping spur the women to revolt. There is no doubt, if all men had real gentlemen, rather than little tyrants, the world would be better. However, today, there are far more women in college, than men, far more in grad school, and single women outearn single men. As far as crossdressing, i think a lot of us identified more with our mothers, than our fathers. My dad was trannical over my mom. The male energy was way over the top controlling. I rejected that, and that may have something to do with me dressing, and i also have nice legs, like my mom did!

[mariehart]

No, men have been crossdressing for as long there have bee differences in the way men and women dress. I also don't buy the so called decline of masculinity. Attitudes like that I believe are sometimes born of misogyny. Some men resent the fact that women are now considered equals. Apparently their masculinity is such a delicate flower that they can't cope with women being allowed to do 'man's' work and also that men are expected to be involved in looking after their children rather than downing beers at the nearest bar.

The only difference between now and the fifties is that both sexes were repressed by the society they lived in and expected to act contrary to their actual desires.

People are freer now than they ever were.

[LilSissyStevie]

The drive towards emasculation comes from within. There's nobody "out there" making us wear a dress. The fact that you can only think of masculinity in negative terms should give you some insight into why you might not want to be that.

[Lori Kurtz]

I don't think there is any decline in masculinity. There certainly is a decline in men's ability to exercise unwarranted power over women, thanks to the rise of feminism. but I don't think that represents any diminution of real masculinity. Women having equal right does not diminish men in any way, except insofar as men previously enjoyed power and privilege that they weren't really entitled to. It's a better world that we live in today, and still getting better. As for how the changing status of the sexes regarding power and autonomy relates to CDing, I can only speak for myself; for me, I can see no relationship or influence there, one way or the other.

[Alice Torn]

Equal in value, yes, but, exactly the same. Never. I dress partly because i want to set an example of classy look women used to have a lot more of. Get mad and let me have it, if you want.

[Asche]

I haven't noticed any decline in "masculinity" in my half-century or so of watching things. Nor any decline in men or their power in the world. It's still very much "a man's world."

What I have noticed is that people's ideas of what it means to be a man have been evolving faster than people (esp. men) are comfortable with. Of course, that's been happening for at least 150 years (and probably a lot longer), to judge by all the hand-wringing essays and articles decrying the decline of manliness.

I don't think it is caused by feminism or changes in women's roles. I think it's caused by much bigger changes. The world is a very different place from what it was 50 years ago, and society as a whole has changed a lot. Most of the changes usually blamed on feminism, even changing women's roles, have been caused more by economic and technological changes, not social movements like feminism.

Personally, I think that masculinity itself is obsolete (and good riddance), but I see no sign that any significant number of men or women agree with me. Virtually everyone is busy trying to rework and redefine masculinity so male humans can continue to survive in our ever-changing human world while still holding on to something they can call "manhood."

What does this have to do with cross-dressing?

As long as 1/2 the population of the world is still trying to define itself by its adherence to some arbitrary idea of "what men are," you're going to have a lot of men repressing large chunks of their nature and in the secret places in their heart wishing for some vacation from having to be "masculine" 24/7. (But most won't have the guts to actually take that vacation.) Orthodox crossdressing (=what most CDers here do) is one such vacation.

[carhill2mn]

My CDing began in the '40's and I loved the women's fashions of the '50's. I particularily loved seeing women beautifully dressed whenever they were in public. I do realize that the women of this time frame were extremely limited in their options and often treated as second-class citizens.

There have been pluses and minuses as a a result of the femininist movement. Males were also freed from their strict dress codes. Women had more options. IMHO, the "everything can be casual" is more of a sad state of affairs especially, for us CD/s.

[audreyinalbany]

I personally don't think that women achieving (or rather working towards achieving) social equality with men makes them any less feminine, any more than wearing slacks or jeans instead of "June Cleaver" dresses does. I don't see any 'decline' in masculinity or femininity; social customs change over time.

[Deedee Skyblue]

The drive towards emasculation comes from within.

Crossdressing is not a 'drive towards emasculation' for all of us. It may be why you self identify as a sissy, but don't assume that we all feel that way.

Deedee

[LilSissyStevie]

So dressing up like a girl isn't emasculating? LOL! At least I'm not delusional.

[Sister Rachel]

Not really sure what my answers are yet, but just have to say what an excellent, thought provoking thread .. Makes me quite proud to be a member of this forum.

[Michelle789]

I like this question. I think our CDing comes from underlying femininity to some significant degree. Here's a few thoughts and questions.

* Why has cross-dressing has existed since the beginning of time, even during times when male energy was supposedly respected more than today? Could it be these men have a feminine side that needs to be expressed, or are even completely female on the inside?

* Why is it that most men today don't cross-dress? We're still like a 2% to 5% , and maybe 10% minority. Why don't our brothers, who grew up under similar conditions to us, like to cross-dress or have gender issues? Could our underlying femininity ultimately cause our desire to CD?

* Amongst my male friends, I have noticed that several insist the USA is still male dominant even today. I have a couple of male friends who believe the world has always been female dominant, could those guys perhaps have underlying gender issues, while the guys who believe the world is still male dominant today are perfectly content being men?

All these points suggest ultimately our underlying femininity is what causes us to cross-dress regardless of what the times are like.

[Vickie_CDTV]

I don't know if it has anything to do with crossdressing, but yes there is a real cultural shift and I believe males and masculinity are being devalued. Heck, even in the trans community, I feel like I have to apologize for still identifying as a male, as if it is some evil or sinister thing. (I wonder how F2Ms feel about that.)

[Leona]

I don't see a link. There may be a causal link to more mtf crossdressers being open about it as it becomes more socially acceptable to be a woman....

I disagree with the premise, however. Maleness is not under attack. It is male privilege that is under attack, and rightfully so. It's time to let the other half of the population in on how the world is run.

[sheilagirl]

Right On, Alice! So very true in my case too except my Father is a GOOD guy and rarely lorded over my mother. However, my Mother is ELEGANT in word and deed and that is what I admire most. By letting me observe her, she taught me how to properly dress. Funny, I don't remember EVER watching my Dad get dressed. I guess it just happens that way.
Thanks,
Sheila

Men have done untold evils, that contributed to it all, as far as helping spur the women to revolt. There is no doubt, if all men had real gentlemen, rather than little tyrants, the world would be better. However, today, there are far more women in college, than men, far more in grad school, and single women outearn single men. As far as crossdressing, i think a lot of us identified more with our mothers, than our fathers. My dad was trannical over my mom. The male energy was way over the top controlling. I rejected that, and that may have something to do with me dressing, and i also have nice legs, like my mom did!

[Badtranny]

Typical conservative rant about being victimized by our "feminist culture".

It's the damn feminazis that made me do it!

The overwhelming majority of men do NOT cross-dress and there is also no shortage of seriously masculine men. I run into Alpha males every day in my line of work. (construction)
They are everywhere and they are yummy.

[Alice Torn]

Thanks to everyone who has commented! I knew there would be some strong feelings of rejection to what i addressed, but i was surprised at some who see what i see, and did not attack what i wrote.

[Lorileah]

bah. Things change, all the 40's and 50's gender dichotomy was nothing more than physically stronger sex keeping another down. Look at what they wore, things to tantalize and make sure that women didn't do things. While I find the look sexy I also see the mental subjugation.

Melissa said it, there is no lack of masculine ,ales out there. There are also a lot more masculine females.

[Melissa Rose]

Absolutely not and a double hell no! IMHO the premises of the OP is highly flawed. The raising of a discriminated or repressed group does not require the lowering of the group in power. It is not like a teeter-totter where if one side goes up the other has to go down. Women rightfully gaining equal opportunity and rights in employment, education, fashion choices, etc. (which is not the the same as equal outcome) is not gained at the expense of masculinity. That is essentially the same as saying gay and lesbian rights are obtained with a corresponding decline in heterosexuality. What about the gains in transgender rights? Does that reduce the non-transgenderness of the non-transgendered community? It is not a fixed sum situation.

I do not miss or have any desire to go back to the times when women were "kept in their place", existed to serve their husbands, treated as second class citizens or property, or legally raped by their husbands (which appallingly was not made illegal in every US state until the late 70s). Back to the days of being barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen? No !#%$& way. This is 2013 and not 1943. While I can appreciate not wanting to lose male privilege, but that privilege comes at the expense of women. It is really about the loss of power and control over women and the creation of a more level playing field. More women in the work force, and not only in women's jobs, and in higher education is about equality and not the decline of masculinity.

[Beverley Sims]

If I over think this.........

Is it a bad thing?

[GaleWarning]

Short answer ... the first and second world wars led to an extreme shortage of men who were left home to do what had previously been labelled as "Men's Work". The women had to muck in and take over. They had to don "Men's Wear" rather than their restrictive corsets and frilly, dainty clothes. They found they enjoyed both doing the work and wearing the non-restrictive gear.

Men came back from the war, war weary and demoralised. Too many of them drank heavily and were no longer the confident, competent people they were before going to the battle front.

Things progressed from there.

And the reason I love to crossdress is simply because I am very tactile and LOVE wearing women's underwear and heels.
The rest, I can take or leave.