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Thread: Acceptance in public

  1. #1
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    Acceptance in public

    Last week I enjoyed a break away in London. Even though I spent most of the time meeting up with friends and family I have down there, I did put aside one day for myself - while my friends and family were at work - to go shopping.

    I used to live in London, so know the place well, and when I lived down there, would often go out shopping, but not to the extent (or with the same drive) as I did last week. Down to the fact that I only had one day last week, whereas when I lived there I could go out whenever I wanted.

    Anyway, I digress. I was staying with my sister, and left her house when she left for work. I was in male mode. I got on the tube and headed over to Portobello Road Market. A place full of vintage clothes stores, market stalls, and high street fashion stores. I walked into one clothes store, looking for a coat for winter, and headed over to the ladies section. The shop assistant was nothing but helpful. Picking out coats for me to try on. There were plenty of other customers in the shop, and none of them gave me a second glance, other than a young pre-teen girl with her mother who pointed to me and giggled, to which her mother quickly apologised to me for. I ended up shelling out just over £300 for a coat - the only one they had left in the shop, and upon leaving the shop assistant told me that she was really pleased it was going to a good home.

    Next, I was off to Camden, North London. A place similar to Portobello in that it has plenty of markets and vintage stores, as well as high street chains. A place called Stables Market has many independent traders, and is a favourite haunt of mine. While there, I bought a handbag - the kind that has a section in which you can put your hands to keep them warm. But that section was too small to fit my hands into, so the sales staff altered it for me. Again, nothing but acceptance and consideration, and not any negativity at all. Off into another shop, which sold both male and female clothes. I was looking at some skirts, when the shop assistant asked me if I needed any help. At first, she was under the impression I was shopping for a girlfriend/wife, but as soon as I told her that I was shopping for myself, she told me to go and try on anything that caught my eye. Off the the changing room, and while inside, she picked out other skirts and told me to try these. Settled on a beige pencil skirt.

    Next I wanted to buy myself a scarf, so headed into a small independent shop and began browsing. The shop assistant (I think she was the owner) asked me if I needed any help. I told her what I was after, and she pulled all sorts of the shelf. Again, she initially thought I was shopping for someone else, but when I told her I was shopping for myself, she said "why didn't you tell me straight away?" She then asked if I dress as a woman completely, to which I said I do, and she began to show me all kinds of things. I ended up buying a necklace, a scarf, and a cashmere top. On leaving, she said to me that it's been a pleasure meeting me and wished me all the best.

    One more stop. This one was quite interesting in regards to how people view crossdressers. In addition to the winter coat I bought earlier in the day, I wanted to treat myself to a gilet. So I headed across to a stall that predominantly sold fur coats and fur gilets and began browsing. The owner of that shop asked me why I wanted fur, and then said that I don't look camp, or gay. I told her that I was gay and she said "well that explains it then". I had to correct her on that - telling her that my crossdressing isn't an indicator of my sexuality, and that the majority of crossdressers are straight. She immediately apologised for her faux pas. Unfortunately, despite trying on many gilets, nothing really caught my eye, but when leaving she said to me "come back soon, and when you do come again, bring a cup of tea for me". All the while I was trying on the coats, several other customers come into the shop and not a single one paid any notice.

    So all in all, despite the incredible length of my post, I finally get to my point. Every single store I went into I was meet with nothing but acceptance. From both the shop assistants, and the other customers who didn't bat an eyelid. It could be down to the places I went to, and being in a big city - where it's all been seen before, but then the big cities have the most number of people, so I couldn't help but think that the more people who are aware and have seen it before, the better it is for us in terms of being accepted. I never once felt as though I was being negatively judged either. So while indifference can be misconstrued as acceptance, even if there were people who do view cding negatively, I never once felt it.
    Last edited by jenni_xx; 10-15-2013 at 03:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    *grumbles that I didn't know something a bout fashion...had to look up gilet*

    What did the 300 pound coat look like...it wasn't fur?

    Glad your had a successful outing.
    The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
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    Nez Perce



    “Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,

  3. #3
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    Hi Lorileah

    It wasn't fur. It was a black leather padded coat, 3/4 length, which stretches around the shoulders and "fluffs" out around the seam. It was bought from an independent trader who make all their own clothes - hence the price. It's a little like the following link, except black, and instead of the hood has a thicker collar.

    http://dotcomwomen.com/wp-content/up...ong-puffer.jpg

  4. #4
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    Hi Jenni, I'm jealous. Here in the States, even in large cities, I doubt you will find that many stores in a single shopping day outing where the clerks are accepting and friendly. Even in a basically CD friendly city like San Francisco, a lot of people still look "down" on our "type." I haven't been to London in several years, but I look forward to coming soon and doing some shopping in the areas you wrote about. Enjoy your coat; it sounds dreamy.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Suzanne F's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaraPeterson View Post
    Hi Jenni, I'm jealous. Here in the States, even in large cities, I doubt you will find that many stores in a single shopping day outing where the clerks are accepting and friendly. Even in a basically CD friendly city like San Francisco, a lot of people still look "down" on our "type." I haven't been to London in several years, but I look forward to coming soon and doing some shopping in the areas you wrote about. Enjoy your coat; it sounds dreamy.
    Lara
    I live just outside of San Francisco. I have for the most part been treated very well. I go out on a regular basis to restaurants and stores with no problem. In fact I usually meet some very sweet people!
    Suzanne

  6. #6
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    ok, I admit, I had no idea what a gilet was. I learn something new here every day!

    But, to the point of the thread. Its true in most of my experiences as well, that merchants are by and large quite accepting of us and in fact, it seems that most are quite aware that we are part of their market, and they are more than anxious to assist.

    Today, as a case in point - I needed pool supplies and to drop off a document at the bank. I went to the bank, spoke with the notary and was treated with total courtesy...if she had a doubt, she kept it to herself (as she darn well should then I stopped at the pool supply store and picked up some chlorine and filter medium. Again - if anyone had a doubt, they kept it to themselves.

    Now if I was in a clothing store, I'd expect someone trying to sell me something...that's their job!
    Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.

    Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimdl93 View Post
    Now if I was in a clothing store, I'd expect someone trying to sell me something...that's their job!
    All too true. And no doubt most of the shops (and their staff) feel exactly the same way. But in regards to how I was treated, and reacted to when I told them that I was shopping for myself - while in drab - was what was most reassuring. There was no double take, or stammering, or awkwardness. It was just met with acceptance - on one occassion (as highlighted in my OP), even being met with the response - "why didn't you tell me straight away" - said in such a way that was both understanding, and as though she was appreciative of my honesty and respected me all the more for it. The fact that on leaving the shop, she said it had been a pleasure to meet me in such a genuine way was really nice and appreciated.

  8. #8
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    Ah, in the UK you don't need the big city. Here in Scotland even N Scotland in villages everyone is great. I try stuff on in male or female mode and the staff are always great. Rural Scotland is cosmopolitan and not at all uptight. And I know what a gilet is - I have several.

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    what is a gilet?

  10. #10
    Aspiring Member Steph_CD_62's Avatar
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    A gilet (French: gilet) is a sleeveless jacket resembling a waistcoat or blouse.

  11. #11
    Lady in Being (7/20/17) AmyGaleRT's Avatar
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    I guess the closest thing you'd find to a gilet here in the U.S. would be a down vest.

    Jenni, I loved hearing about your shopping trip and how well it went, but when you mentioned your first destination, I immediately thought of Bedknobs and Broomsticks:

    Portobello Road! Portobello Road!
    Street where the riches of ages are stowed,
    Anything and everything a chap can unload,
    Is sold off the barrow in Portobello Road,
    You'll find what you want in the Portobello Road!


    - Amy
    Amy Gale Ruth Bowersox (nee Tapie) - "Be who you are, and be it in style!"
    Member, Board of Trustees, Gender Identity Center of Colorado
    aka Amelia Storm - Ms. Majestic Hearts of All Colorado 2018-2019, Miss Majestic Hearts of All Colorado 2015-2016

  12. #12
    Just getting my feet wet Marie-Elise's Avatar
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    I just loved reading the original post of this thread. It made me feel good that someone can spend a day like that.

  13. #13
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    How cool, Jenni! Altho I had to read your original post twice and wasn't sure u were shopping in drab until I read your follow up!

    You're header made me think u were shopping dressed! Atho, I don't find shopping in person for Sherry dressed either way, comfortable.
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  14. #14
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    You only have to be reasonably presentable and you get accepted for what you are.
    A girl.
    The crowds in the markets are all close together and people are looking at "stuff" not looking for CDers.
    In London too I notice all have their own personal agendas.
    In small boutiques there if you present nicely and don't act weirdly you will get lovely interactions with the sales staff.
    They usually want to know about you and in the end all they really want are your credit card details.
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

  15. #15
    Aspiring Member Amanda22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshalynn View Post
    what is a gilet?
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gilet

  16. #16
    Senior Member Laura912's Avatar
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    One of those wonderful days a lot of us wish for. However, do you not get tired wearing a three hundred pound coat?

  17. #17
    Aspiring Member Amanda22's Avatar
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    Hi Jenni. Your post wasn't too long; I loved every word of it. I would like to share my experiences and opinions on this topic as well.

    1) I'd be willing to bet that you were very matter of fact about shopping for feminine clothing for yourself. You probably didn't creep around like you were doing something wrong or act apologetic. I could be mistaken since I wasn't there. Acting like we don't belong is the fastest way to attract scrutiny and other negative reactions. We bring that on ourselves more often than not, in my experience. Feel free to disagree. Oh, and lest anyone think I pass as a GG, I'm 6 foot 3 inches in bare feet and weigh 240 pounds and long ago was a powerlifter although I've slimmed down very considerably. I wear my high heels, too.

    2) I get irritated with the idea that salespeople who accept us crossdressers are just after the sale. I think that's insulting to salespeople. Of course the purpose of retail is the exchange of products/services for money at a profit, but the position of a salesperson often goes far beyond that. Sales is a people job. If a person didn't like human interaction, I don't think they'd be in sales very long. I'm not in retail and have only been on the customer side of the exchange but several salespeople I've encountered have become close friends. How did that happen? It happened because they were interested in more than just a sale. I think salespeople deserve more respect; they're not all just humoring us to get our money. I see that sentiment expressed so often and it bugs me (hence this rant). Has anyone considered that a saleswoman who dares to giggle with her co-worker about us shopping might find us refreshing? I recently bought some furniture at a furniture store and the two saleswomen wanted to see photos of me in various outfits. I showed them on my phone. They shared their opinions on my looks and outfits and told me which ones they liked most. One even wondered aloud if she could get her boyfriend to try crossdressing because she thought it was great!

    3) I live in Chattanooga, TN, USA. The metro population is about 600K. That may sound like a large city to some, but it includes a lot of surrounding area where people live without even basic conveniences like running water. The actual city center is pretty small. For those not familiar with this part of the US, this is smack in the heart of the Bible Belt. It is ultra-conservative and quite openly so. That is all fine with me even though my values are completely different. But you know what? I get so much genuine love and respect as a crossdresser whether I'm presenting as full female, half and half, or male. I act like I belong, because, well, I do. There are three nail/hair salons, multiple women's clothing stores, a high-end lingerie store, two make-up counters, coffee shops, restaurants, home furnishing stores, and neighbors who all know and welcome me with very open arms. They really do celebrate my uniqueness! Many salespeople fall over themselves making me feel welcome. I just don't buy into the belief I often see expressed on this forum that you have to live in a large city or in a progressive area to be accepted.

    OK, flame away!
    Last edited by Amanda22; 10-16-2013 at 09:31 AM. Reason: more thoughts

  18. #18
    Member julia marie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amanda22 View Post
    Many salespeople fall over themselves making me feel welcome. I just don't buy into the belief I often see expressed on this forum that you have to live in a large city or in a progressive area to be accepted.

    OK, flame away!
    I'm with you Amanda22. I shop in a few small New England cities, and the sales people have been everything from neutral (matter of fact) to very accepting and helpful. Even the other customers have generally been fine, or at least haven't shown that they noticed anything. A couple of giggles here and there, but I can live with that. Some of the funny looks have come from teens in stores and fastfood joints, but even then most of the younger sales clerks and cashiers have been great. There's been a lot of discussion about how CDs are still a small minority, and I'm sure that's true. In fact, I don't recall the last time I saw someone that clearly was a guy in girl clothes (except in the mirror). However, I'm increasingly sure that sales personnel must see us often enough that they don't think twice about being courteous and helpful.

  19. #19
    Girly Girl gailprice's Avatar
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    Yeap thats LONDON UK. Its a great place.

    I thought a gilet might have been somthing you cooked. So i've learned something today

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