When is it okay to deceive your spouse?

[Nadine Spirit]

Never.

I am honestly shocked by the large number of you who are married and your spouse has no idea that you CD. It is reprehensible in my mind. There is absolutely no acceptable reason for that.

I understand that it is scary to expose ourselves, but it needs to be done. Before I ever got married I had to tell my wife of everything that I had ever done that I thought might bother someone. I needed to know that my spouse accepted me even with all of the horrible things I had done in my life. So I experienced sort of a confessional time period where I exposed myself to my future spouse. It was so freeing to have her really know who I am and still accept me. Cross dressing never was one of those things as I sort of discovered it while we were married and thus she found out along with me. But there were other things. Things I have never told anyone else, and never will, but I told her.

Isn't that supposed to be part of a marriage? Maybe its just my idea of marriage.

For all of you that have not told your spouse, if I were your spouse, I obviously would not care in the least about your cross dressing, but I would most likely divorce you because your deception. I believe that people can be educated about cross dressers and can come to understand and to love us. But if you have been proven to be a liar, how can you ever earn back someone's trust?

My advice? Face your fears and tell your SOs near the very beginning of your relationship. If they accept it great, and if not, then you know you need to try and find someone else that will accept you for who you really are. It is a myth that no one will accept a cross dresser. But I think no one should accept a deceitful spouse.

Okay rant over,thanks for listening

[NicoleScott]

It is reprehensible in my mind. There is absolutely no acceptable reason for that.

It is a myth that no one will accept a cross dresser.

Wow. You've been here a month and have it all figured out. It's easy for someone with an accepting wife to take your position. For those of who have been here for years, we have read about many good marriages ended by a CDing revelation. You can always blame the deceit, but you have no way of knowing that.

The way you worded your myth statement, you are correct, it is a myth that NO ONE will accept a crossdresser (although I've never heard that myth). But there are many women who absolutely will not be married to a crossdresser. Stick around here for a while, and you'll see. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
But thanks for the judgmental lecture.

[Kate Simmons]

You won't find a lot of folks who will meet your criteria Nadine, either willingly or unwillingly. CDing can be confusing enough but we don't need more burdens to be added. Let's try to understand it first and then determine ourselves if it is indeed right or wrong. The best thing is to make it work for us and enjoy it as far as I'm concerned.

[Karren H]

It's ok if she doesn't know she's being deceived...... and as long as your not lying about deceiving her......... like "are you deceiving me?" ever came up in a conversation with my wife before she found out..... mater of fact neither did "do you crossdress"..... So I was good to go....

[JennyLynn]

Nadine,
While I respect your opinion, I would hope you respect mine as well. I've been crossdressing for most all my life, but never consistently so. Just on and off. It's never been a major factor in my life and wasn't even thought of as an "issue" when we were dating or even when we got married, because I just wasn't doing it then. It was a non-factor. It comes and goes and now that it's here, I don't have a problem keeping it "my little thing" as it doesn't consume me and it's rare when I do. We are all different and we can't lump all of us into one big box of "crossdressers".

Just my rant
Jenny

[Marleena]

I think you just some people here. If you know you have gender issues tell them early on because it doesn't go away. If you're already in a relationship I have no advice because I don't know what your your outcome will be. I told each partner early on I had gender issues and so far it wasn't a factor.

[Tracii G]

All I can say is do what is right in your own situation.

[Katey888]

Nadine,
While I respect your opinion, I would hope you respect mine as well. I've been crossdressing for most all my life, but never consistently so. Just on and off. It's never been a major factor in my life and wasn't even thought of as an "issue" when we were dating or even when we got married, because I just wasn't doing it then. It was a non-factor. It comes and goes and now that it's here, I don't have a problem keeping it "my little thing" as it doesn't consume me and it's rare when I do. We are all different and we can't lump all of us into one big box of "crossdressers".

Just my rant
Jenny

I'm with Jenny and <quite strongly> mikell on this one... but fair play to Nadine for being bold enough to let everyone know her opinion and what her choice would be.
My overwhelming reason to join this forum was to try to make sense of my on and off, purging and persisting patterns that trouble me, scare me and delight me all at once. I don't believe opening up to anyone that knows me now would serve to settle any internal conflict - although I know that I am not likely to really get closure on what I feel, I also know that I have to make a choice on whether or not it's right for me and right for those I love and care about. That has to be a personal choice based on the personalities and individuals involved - it has plenty shades of grey in it for me! And while it's deceit, I'm afraid that is the way us humans are wired.
For those of you who have been able to share - and for whom a positive outcome has been the result - then you are truly fortunate and blessed. I know I have to carry my predilection as something of a private burden (slight whiff of burning martyr...?) but in all sincerity I believe it's my responsibility to carry... for now, at least.
But hey, it's been a provocative thread... and my brain's spinning...

Kx

[joanna marie]

Kristina,

I checked your profile,
I have a son your age,he does not remember a time without the internet and I'm sure you or your wife don't either. You both are very lucky as you will never know what it was like in the good old days. We girls that are of of a certain age were brought up in a different world than the one in which you came of age. We have spend most of lives in that hidden, secretive life, not knowing that there were others out there like us. Our wives perception of expected gender roles were also formed in that very different world.

I'm glad that the attitudes towards gender roles have changed and that people are more accepting . That change has allowed you and Nadine to be open in your marriage from the start. Don't judge those of us from a different era through the eyes of your world.

I'm glad that you hang out with older people because old people know stuff. Myself included, the older girls you hang with have lived long enough to not care what people think anymore. Just as I don't care what you think.
You have shown me the error of my decision to not tell my wife before marriage ,now if you would just point me to that time machine I'll go back to 1971 and tell my future wife all about my desire to cross dress. Of course that would eliminate my two sons as she has told me that she would never have married me if she had known.
Maybe I should have come out when I started teaching 30 years ago in a small Utah town. I'm sure the school board would have been very understanding. The Ten years I spent as Boy Scout leader would have been much more interesting.
I don’t have a self -imposed world of “the way things used to be” I lived through a world of “That is how it was”!

Contrary to your belief my life has not been miserable .I dressed when I could and enjoyed it without damage to my marriage, career , loss of friends or my children not having to explain me to there friends. I did not put myself first. As I have said, it was the crossdressing that upset my wife not the fact I didn't tell her.

BTW Please ask those brave , wise girls of my generation when they finally came out of the closet.
I’ll bet it was closer to 1985 than 1950.

[Gerrijerry]

One person who seems to know what is correct for everyone else. So opened and understanding of others.

[Julie York]

It is a matter of preservation. Not just self, but family and/or your most important relationship.
As a person of ANY gender you want to protect yourself, and your family, and partner/spouse. So you assess what is a risk to the things you hold dear and avoid doing things that will put your relationship/family at risk.

So you don't do something really dumb like telling people you crossdress.

[danielle swenson]

SO I have my asbestos draws on....
Nadine is making this statement about those who are considering getting married. I think you just have to read the subject line here cause I know it is correct and have proven it true in my life experience. The crazy thing is, it works in every facet of life {not being deceitful ie lying} from professional to private. But everyone is different and they don't have to, or are expected to live their life to this standard. I do believe it is a must have attribute if you are in politics tho,

When is it okay to deceive your spouse?

Never

I whole hardheartedly agree with Nadines statement. But hey who was that guy in the states who said "If you Like your Insurance plan ,you can keep your insurance plan" I didn't vote for him, but hes not the guy I'm gonna get married to either! I and the other modern day classic "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"

[reb.femme]

............. Nadine is making this statement about those who are considering getting married................

Those asbestos draws will not work Danielle. It's gonna be a fire storm.

Nadine clearly states, "I am honestly shocked by the large number of you who are married and your spouse has no idea that you CD. It is reprehensible in my mind. There is absolutely no acceptable reason for that." Clearly aimed at those already married.

Semantics aside, my point is purely not to pass judgment on how others run their lives unless they ask for it. Then it's open house......sort of.

Rebecca

[Lacyfem]

Touched a nerve? You are one of those that knows all scenarios and it seems you're right all the time. I'm totally with Nicole here and am glad to see the number of gurls here that believe what Nicole is saying. I'm in contact with a gurl here right now trying to console her because her marriage is on the rocks in that she decided to tell her the truth about his dressing. After a long wonderful marriage she won't even talk to him, he lives away from her and it's looking like the marriage is over. I love the way you put it as you look down on those that chose not to take the huge chance of ruining their marriage by coming out to their SO. Tired of gurls like you passing judgement on gurls that don' want to come out to their SO.

[Melissa in SE Tn]

Nadine , God bless you. There are so many of us, in our middle age, that have been married for decades when the cd need evolved or resurfaced. It would have been impossible for me to tell my fiancée / bride to be that I was a cd when the condition was not present . Now , after decades of marriage , where we have been blessed with children, precious memories, kindred spirits & entangled debt, we late cd bloomers are confronted with the prospect of losing it all should we reveal the truth. I agree that honesty is one of the core values of marriage, but every cder on this forum must analyze what is in the best interest of the marital union.
We all have learned that words mean things. The older that I get, the more that I try to live by that mantra. I wish you peace, Melissa

[Desirae]

So, here we go with another passing judgment, telling everyone else what is best, and what they should do. I thought that kind of behavior was best left to the bigots out there in society who have problems with anyone different from "mainstream" "normal" people. I didn't think it would also be coming so harsh from someone within the community. You DON'T have ANY RIGHT to decide for anyone else what is in their best interest just because you perceive it is in their best interest (or yours). You have no idea about anyone elses circumstances except for your own, and that's where your decision making ability should end.

[Helen Grandeis]

One of the truths of life is that honesty and mutual respect in relationships are desirable things. Back in 2010, I made my first reveal based on the idea that honesty was better than a chance encounter in deep space. Unfortunately, I blurted it out in a counseling session for a totally unrelated issue. Her profound disgust with the whole I idea that I was a cross dresser was unanticipated. My near total purge and promise to try my hardest was followed by a campaign to prove myself to be a value added husband. Humor about CD was not appreciated. She renounced our trusted marriage counselor who had seen us through the previous 18 years because he approved and supported my CD.

[reb.femme]

NicoleScott answered for me.

Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it but, to judge someone without being in total command of 'their' facts is a touch over the top.

Rebecca

[Jill Devine]

Just before I got engaged I told my soon to be fiancé about my CD side. I wasn't going to live a life hiding and sneaking. She was ok with it. Never got married - relationship broke down for other reasons (I was just a jerk at that stage). Then met my now wife. Again decided to reveal all far before getting married. Been together 20 years now.

I understand that if you are already married and hiding then you really do have a challenge. I won't judge.
But my strong advice is to the singles: don't get married without having "the talk."

[Stephanie Miller]

One should be cautious and carry a parachute when so high on a pedestal.
Nadine.. Keep in mind not all people had the same ability or timeline you had. Others, such as myself, did not realize and/or accept this part of who we were in order to be able to inform others - before life had been well under way. At that point some had others, besides the two of them, to think about that would be terribly damaged.
Keep walking in your own heels, because to walk in someone else may not be as easy.

[Nadine Spirit]

Obviously I touched a nerve with some of you huh? Honestly, I knew it would, how can it not?

You all are free to make your own judgement calls of what is right and wrong, I just think that to not be honest with your spouse you are belittling them and robbing yourself.

By many of your responses, if someone is having an affair, they shouldn't tell their spouse, because their spouse might not understand? Because it might destroy the marriage? Hmm... Interesting, I wonder if there are chat boards for adulterers? Do you suppose they espouse the same behaviors?

Oh and also, I understand that my version of honesty with a spouse is extreme. I just think that before two folks get married, they should know everything there is to know about each other so that they can make an informed decision about whether to get married or not. If you don't want kids, talk about that before you get married. If you hate Christmas, talk about it. If you love talking to your friends for 5 hours a day, talk about it. If you think your mommy comes before your wife, talk about it. If you think twinkies are a must at every meal, talk about it.

What is it about our society that says, be afraid, be very afraid, don't tell anyone anything, because you know what, they might not like you!!!

Oh and lastly, no I don't have everything in the world figured out, I just think that the way that most folks go about marriage is pretty weird.

[Stephanie Sometimes]

Nadine says: "It is reprehensible in my mind. There is absolutely no acceptable reason for that."

THIS forum was about the last place I expected to hear such a harsh expression of moral absolutism. Everyone is free to their moral opinions but why be so judgmental about other people’s marriage?

The only thing else I will say about your attitude is that life is not so simple as your proclamation would assume.

Stephanie

[Majella St Gerard]

Nadine. You go girl! I like the way you speak your mind. I agree honesty is the best policy. Cross dressing came to me during my first marriage , wife knew and didn't like. Told my new wife about it the second time we were intimate and she loved the idea of it. I couldn't imagine having to hide and sneak, it must be very stressful. I am lucky, not everyone has the support that I have. I understand why you would feel the need to keep cross dressing secrete, but you know that bridge has to be crossed someday. Ya got to be honest, a relationship is BASED on honesty and trust, isn't it?

[Wildside_md]

While I respect your opinion I must disagree. If after being married for a few years you start feeling the need to cross-dress and you do it by yourself keeping it to yourself is OK. Once you start needing to involve your SO or someone else you owe to them to talk about it. But dressing when they or you are away is not harming.

[JennyLynn]

Lol danielle. Be careful to not stray off topic...especially when it gets to politics! Funny post though!