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Thread: When is it okay to deceive your spouse?

  1. #51
    Senior Member Hell on Heels's Avatar
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    Thanks Nadine, your question has stirred up a lot of thoughts and emotions.
    I've been with my SO for over 30 years, I CD'ed as a child and was not actively dressing when I met her.
    We now share everything, but when CD'ing resurfaced long into our relationship, there is something inside me
    that wants, or needs, to keep it to myself. I imagine life would be so much easier if she were to know, and was OK with it, but the risk of losing her and what we have built together is far to big of risk to take and find out she is not.
    Thanks again for sharing your opinion.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Amanda M's Avatar
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    Very frank, Nadine. However, with a little more maturity you might come to understand that your standards, your moral compass is just that. Yours. Great in an ideal world, but we don't have one, so why make others anguish over their own situation?
    If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

  3. #53
    Member joanna marie's Avatar
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    Thanks Nadine for the chastisement , But I get all I need from my SO

    Seeing that I've been married to the same woman as long as you have been alive I'll take your opinion for what its worth.

    My wife found out a few years ago and our relationship has not been the same , nor will it ever be again
    It was not the deceit that upset her , it was the crossdressing
    She told me that she always suspected but finding out I did was a deal breaker
    After 40 years together, to her I am not the same man she married
    Please be aware that telling your wife can have real costs.

    Telling her may be good for your soul and gains you relief from having to hide your secret
    But to what effect on your wife? The guilt you may feel about CDing is now shared
    By telling her, you have placed that guilt and the fear of others finding out on her
    You have forced her to deal with it ( and not all women handle it as well as your wife)
    she now also has to knowingly hide it from friends and family
    Remember Nadine , honesty could not only destroy your marriage it could also destroy hers

    So Nadine save your rants until after you have experienced the real world a little more

  4. #54
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    Nadine,
    Thanks for your sage advice on this one.
    I fully agree we should be honest with our wives.
    I tell mine that the computer setup and audio visual equipment all cost me next to nothing.
    That is also deceit.

    Sometimes face your fears and wreck an otherwise good marriage for honesty is probably holier than thou.

    I can see why some lie.
    They have a good life but only one little thing keeps them from being thrown out in the street.


    Dishonesty.

    Sometimes it is necessary.
    Keep reading the posts about it here and I tend to agree with Nicole Scott's comments in post #2.
    When you gain some more insight into the forum, come back and comment again.
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

  5. #55
    Just a touch of class Lynn Marie's Avatar
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    I was deceitful to my spouse and later to my soul mate about my dressing. I'm no longer married and happily unattached. From this point of view, I can see how my dishonesty built walls between us and degraded our relationship from total intimacy to just friendship. I regret it, but the deceit happens so gradually and subtlety that we're in it before we realize what has happened! Now I can be totally honest. I have nothing more to lose.

  6. #56
    Gold Member Helen_Highwater's Avatar
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    Nadine,
    If I thought my CD'ing harmed our relationship or detracted from how we live our lives together I could agree with your point of view but I'm one of those who came to cross dressing post marriage. The part it plays in my life is limited and yes it would be lovely to be free to dress as and when. However if the act of confession was to lead to the breakdown of a long and stable partnership wouldn't that be the act of a selfish person? Hey I'm free now to dress, I can live how I want to and who cares what unnecessary distress I've brought to others.
    My CD'ing does no harm. I don't put it above the things that make up the shared part of our life. There are many SO's who knew their soon to be husbands played golf but never envisaged becoming a "widow" as hubby spends more time with the golf buddies than with her. Relationships are complex, we're all individuals and one size doesn't fit all.
    Who dares wears Get in, get out without being noticed

  7. #57
    Silver Member Debra Russell's Avatar
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    ...so what.. who cares... to thine own self be true... .....Debra

  8. #58
    Silver Member Majella St Gerard's Avatar
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    Nadine. You go girl! I like the way you speak your mind. I agree honesty is the best policy. Cross dressing came to me during my first marriage , wife knew and didn't like. Told my new wife about it the second time we were intimate and she loved the idea of it. I couldn't imagine having to hide and sneak, it must be very stressful. I am lucky, not everyone has the support that I have. I understand why you would feel the need to keep cross dressing secrete, but you know that bridge has to be crossed someday. Ya got to be honest, a relationship is BASED on honesty and trust, isn't it?

  9. #59
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    There is a huge difference between deceiving someone and not telling them every little facet of your life. If a wife were to ask "Are you a crossdresser?" and you were to say "No" (and in fact you are), that would be deception. But to keep something from them? I don't see that as deception. Everyone has secrets that we don't share, for many many reasons. I had a LOT I couldn't tell my wife (now she's my ex-wife) about when I was in the military (AFSC 20874A) because it was classified - was that "deceiving" her? No! There were simply things I could not discuss - it was a huge part of my life and I absolutely could not discuss it with her. She would ask and I would tell her "I can't talk about it." That's not deception, and neither is keeping other parts of your live private.

    Maybe your life is different, but don't go all judgemental on the rest of us because we don't conform to your concepts.
    ~Linebacker Melissa

  10. #60
    Little Mrs. Snarky! Nadine Spirit's Avatar
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    You are all correct in that maybe not telling your spouse is the best choice, I do not know your life. But I know math, and with probability, with chance events, like someone finding out your secret, if you do it enough times, the probability of being discovered grows with each time. Eventually, most likely, not definitely, your secret will no longer be your secret. And I think it is in all of our own personal best interests to be honest with our spouses.

    As I see it, if you are not honest with your spouse, most likely they will eventually find out. I think that for all of you, your spouse would most likely prefer for you to be honest with them than for them to find out some other way. I think that all of you that have not told your SO, you think that there is 0% chance they will ever discover your secret. I honestly, and sincerely wish all of you the best of luck with that; I really hope that plan works out for you.

  11. #61
    Member joanna marie's Avatar
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    But I know math, and with probability, with chance events, like someone finding out your secret, if you do it enough times, the probability of being discovered grows with each time.
    The probability of an occurrence does not increase with frequency,if that was the case I would never drive a car again.
    Think about flipping a coin, the odds of it coming up heads are the same every time you flip it. You can do things to increase the chance of an occurrence(driving on bald tires or adding weight to one side of the coin),but unless you do the probability remains the same. Every time you dress the risk of someone finding out is the same unless you do something different to increase that risk.

  12. #62
    Junior Member Kristina_nolagirl's Avatar
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    To each their own, but I just don't get how you consider yourself to "have a great marriage " that you "want to protect" that is based on someone who only loves part of you and your obviously not that close with if she can't notice that you're hiding something. If I try to hide anything, my wife eventually busts me!

    A hidden, secretive life seems miserable to me. I'd rather tell her, have her hate me then get a divorce rather than stay with a person my entire life who does not love the real me. But luckily, if pitched properly, thoughtfully and without a victim mentality I personally believe your chance of success with telling someone who truly loves you is very high.

    These are my opinions formed from my life and experiences. I'm certainly not here to judge anyone's choices, but to be a support if I can. I can't offer any advise on keeping your dressing a secret, but I can offer advise on being brave and telling her, because that's what I did.

  13. #63
    its important mykell's Avatar
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    Nadine,
    here is some math, your first post 15 members welcomed you to this forum, none judged you or formed an opinion, some read your blog, and wished you and you wife well, http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...llo&highlight= , i was one of those folks, on a broader spectrum in sure that your SO knows everything about you, there isnt one little indiscretion you may of held back, embellished slightly to put you in a better light, something.........???
    your correct you dont know my life as i have lived it, but you seem to know aspects of it, being found out, top o the list, did i clean everything up, did i leave the web page open, friends find out never here from them again ect....ect.... not a comfy way to go about life i tell yah.
    i got this beat, just an adolescent quirk, nope !! just fell of the fog wagon again, not !!! i wont do it again, minutes turn to hours, hours to days, days to months, months to years, and here i am....because i thought i had it beat !! now its out of hand, she wont have my back, lawyers, judges, jobs, kids aaarrrrggggghhhhh.

    my dad dies in august, now i think wow, is this how i want her to find out, going about giving thing to charity ,family, a garage sale maybe and then whats in here whhaaaa.....WTF.....absolutely not, have her blame herself for my wanting this, no way. thinking i was a deviant, weirdo, crackpot, nope, so i pulled my panties up got on the web lurked for a day and joined, looked like a good fit, nobody judging anybody.
    been comfortable here till now. if i had to do it all over again would i do it all the same...

    wouldn't wish that lifestyle on anyone, didn't start living until 32 days ago ,

    i just thought you may like to here my opinion.
    dont remember my spouse letting you speak for her.
    Last edited by mykell; 12-12-2013 at 01:54 PM.
    ....Mykell
    i dressed like a girl and i liked it! crossdressing...theirs an app for that

  14. #64
    Member joanna marie's Avatar
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    I agree that honesty is important in a relationship,but there are some things that can damage a marriage if they were exposed.
    As an example;
    You have gone out of town on a business trip and had a one night affair with someone you met in a bar. You know that is no way that your spouse will ever find out. You have been guilt ridden about the affair and the fact you are not being honest with you spouse. You need to tell her.

    Meanwhile you spouse is happy and is enjoying married life without the knowledge of your affair. Would you be honest and open and tell her all about it, knowing that it will change both of your lives forever or would you keep that secret to yourself and maintain the life you both enjoy?

    Nadine, I have no problem with you stating your opinion ,but be aware that it is just that your opinion. Condemnation based only on your personal experience without other research is of little value to anyone except to yourself.
    Last edited by joanna marie; 12-12-2013 at 03:19 PM.

  15. #65
    Junior Member Kristina_nolagirl's Avatar
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    Hi Joanna - I noticed you were trying to drop some "old school" knowledge on me. I typed a rebuttal then my phone died and now I see it's been removed from your post.

    If you choose to live in the miserable, self imposed world of " the way things used to be" that's up to you. But I've met (in person) lots of people from my generation, gen xers, baby boomers and beyond who are living life bravely on their terms. In fact, I end up hanging with people twice my age more often than not because there are waaaay more people from the baby boomer generation that are comfortable in their skin then in my own generation. Using your age, lack of internet, or circumstances as your crutch in life is just that - a crutch. And there is a common misconception by closeted excuse ridden people from older generations who think that those people from my generation are all born with an Ethernet cable up our ass that breeds uber confidence and allows us to be who we want to be. Look around - not to many 20 something's here or anywhere - trust me I look for them.

    So while you bestow your many years experience that was formed between your ears, and from your computer chair; I'll rely on my limited years, but rich experiences that I've created for myself. In addition to the tons of experiences from brave, wise girls who happen to also be member of your generation.

    Age is just a number, and rules/circumstances are made to be broken and changed. One thing I've learned that is true here and in all facets if life is the majority of people accept things "as they are" and fall in line because it's easy. I never will. I'll live in my fantasy candy land of love and acceptance because that's the life I choose and the one I create for myself through the power of positive thought.

  16. #66
    Gold Member Marleena's Avatar
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    If you hide this from your spouse and they find out it won't end well in most situations. So you're taking a chance because it's lying by omission. The SO has a right to be upset at that point. They'll question what else you are hiding from them. Just a thought.

  17. #67
    Chickie Chickhe's Avatar
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    It all depends what you need to tell her and what you should tell her. Everyone is different multiplied by how different everyone's spouse is. So you are looking at a lot of possibilities. Personally, if you don't want to change your lifestyle there might not be much value in sharing much. If you do feel like you want her to know something, then figure out a positive way to do it so she's not in shock.
    Chickie

  18. #68
    Aspiring Member NancyJ's Avatar
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    Another comment is probably not needed since much on both sides of this sensitive question has already been posted. But, in the spirit of us all being different and our circumstances being different, here's my deal. Being now over age 60 and getting married at age 21, I did not understand "Nancy" nor these feelings in me at that time and I actually thought that living with a woman would reduce these urges, because back then I thought it was a form of sexual expression. It didn't take me long to realize that it is far more than that--but I didn't even hear the term "transgendered" until about 15 years ago. When I first shared a closet with a woman my desire to wear her clothes was overwhelming.

    I am in agreement that honesty is the best policy, but I take issue with your comparing crossdressing to having an affair. I took a vow of fidelity, one that I have never broken. I did not take a vow to not crossdress, nor a vow at the age of 21 that I fully understood myself.

    Now, I actually have told my wife multiple times that I am a crossdresser, and as recently as a few months ago I told her that I wanted to have her acceptance of more dressing around the house. She said 'no' and would talk no more about it. She knows, because I've told her, that I have a variety of female undies, shoes, skirts, blouses. We have a DADT agreement and she knows where these clothes are but she does not want to see them or see me in them (other than panties that she has accepted is the only underwear I have.

    So, if I had a do-over and could have known myself well enough over 40 years ago to put it all on the table then, I would. Her lack of acceptance of me and "sneaking around" to furtively shop or dress when she is not around is the hardest thing in my life. I have told her because I didn't want to deceive her and because I long for her acceptance. I do not think that she would say that she is glad she knows. she'd prefer, she's told me, that this had never come up.

    And, just to clarify outside of this issue we get along we'll, I love her and she loves me, she just doesn't love "Nancy," nor even know her name. Nancy

  19. #69
    Little Mrs. Snarky! Nadine Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joanna marie View Post
    The probability of an occurrence does not increase with frequency,if that was the case I would never drive a car again.
    Think about flipping a coin, the odds of it coming up heads are the same every time you flip it. You can do things to increase the chance of an occurrence(driving on bald tires or adding weight to one side of the coin),but unless you do the probability remains the same. Every time you dress the risk of someone finding out is the same unless you do something different to increase that risk.
    Only if you are talking about independent events. It is my opinion that having an ongoing deception is a series of dependent events. Thus the probability increases with each event. As in, your spouse may overlook one or two "out of place" occurrences, but it becomes increasingly difficult to overlook a series of occurrences, thus, it is my opinion that these things then become dependent events.

    Quote Originally Posted by nancybali View Post
    Another comment is probably not needed since much on both sides of this sensitive question has already been posted. But, in the spirit of us all being different and our circumstances being different, here's my deal. Being now over age 60 and getting married at age 21, I did not understand "Nancy" nor these feelings in me at that time and I actually thought that living with a woman would reduce these urges, because back then I thought it was a form of sexual expression. It didn't take me long to realize that it is far more than that--but I didn't even hear the term "transgendered" until about 15 years ago. When I first shared a closet with a woman my desire to wear her clothes was overwhelming.

    I am in agreement that honesty is the best policy, but I take issue with your comparing crossdressing to having an affair. I took a vow of fidelity, one that I have never broken. I did not take a vow to not crossdress, nor a vow at the age of 21 that I fully understood myself.

    Now, I actually have told my wife multiple times that I am a crossdresser, and as recently as a few months ago I told her that I wanted to have her acceptance of more dressing around the house. She said 'no' and would talk no more about it. She knows, because I've told her, that I have a variety of female undies, shoes, skirts, blouses. We have a DADT agreement and she knows where these clothes are but she does not want to see them or see me in them (other than panties that she has accepted is the only underwear I have.

    So, if I had a do-over and could have known myself well enough over 40 years ago to put it all on the table then, I would. Her lack of acceptance of me and "sneaking around" to furtively shop or dress when she is not around is the hardest thing in my life. I have told her because I didn't want to deceive her and because I long for her acceptance. I do not think that she would say that she is glad she knows. she'd prefer, she's told me, that this had never come up.

    And, just to clarify outside of this issue we get along we'll, I love her and she loves me, she just doesn't love "Nancy," nor even know her name. Nancy
    Nancy - I think you have been wonderful to be honest with your spouse. If she makes a choice to not involve herself, that is her choice, but at least you allowed her to make that choice. My comment about having an affair was not in comparing the morality of fidelity to cross dressing, it was in comparing the two acts as both being deceitful. But again I don't see anything as you having done as being deceitful.
    Last edited by Sandra; 12-15-2013 at 02:07 PM. Reason: merged consecutive posts please use the multi quote function next time

  20. #70
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    Nadine, I will agree with you here. CDing does not get a special exemption from lying, or deceit or dishonesty or concealing or whatever anyone wants to call it. I do not believe there is ever a truly good reason why anyone has a valid reason to not be truthful with a committed partner.

    Some people have said that an otherwise good marriage was ruined by the reveal of Cding. The way I see that is that the marriage only worked because of deception and dishonesty. How good of a marriage is that really?? What CDers who are just beginning to accept of themselves should be told I.M.O. is that they should seek out partners who will accept them for who they are.

    What is as much of a reason for a marriage break up is not just the CDing but the lying that went with it. YES- the CDing is not an easy aspect for most women to deal with. Add in lying and deceit and it makes it all the tougher. What my wife has told me (I was not upfront in the beginning) is that she felt she was not given the chance to make a fully informed decision. That angered her and hurt her. It hurt her also because she felt betrayed that she bared all and I did not. She felt angry and hurt because I did not give her full trust that she gave me. Those are the hardest emotions for her to deal with. None of which are the actual CDing. The actual CDing is hard for her to comprehend and does make things hard for her at times. The emotions that are the hardest for her to deal with are the ones that came from not telling her upfront. My wife came from a strict religious conservative background. And yet, the CDing is not harder for her than the not telling her upfront. It would have only gotten all the harder if it had gone on longer, or I began to have a secret life without her knowledge, and that it was discovered rather than told.

    For those who do not tell and live a secret life, whatever compromises that would be made for your partners, they are easier to deal with than the amount of effort it must take to keep the secret a secret. One of my biggest regrets in life is that I did not tell my wife early on.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

  21. #71
    Little Mrs. Snarky! Nadine Spirit's Avatar
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    This right here! Thank you for relaying your real life example of what I am attempting to discuss. Good for you!
    Last edited by Sandra; 12-15-2013 at 02:07 PM. Reason: No need to quote the whole post. Read the rules about quoting posts

  22. #72
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    How sad that at a support Forum, some folks are so closed minded. I'm hoping 200 seconds at the following link can help open your minds.

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  23. #73
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    My real life example is why I agree with you. If the lying and deceit hurt someone like my wife more, who came from the background she did, it becomes quite obvious that that is what hits the hardest. I used to think differently. I had the desires and the feelings of being feminine but never acted on them. So why tell her and upset her or maybe even have her end the relationship because of it. I didn't want it to end. And I was in such denial about my own self anyway. I get and understand all the reasons why so many do not tell. I did the same. I figured like I always did, that it was a secret that I would take to my grave. Guess what happened when I finally met the one who truly is my soulmate... my entire soul wanted to be a part of it.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

  24. #74
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JennyLynn View Post
    Nadine,
    While I respect your opinion, I would hope you respect mine as well. I've been crossdressing for most all my life, but never consistently so. Just on and off. It's never been a major factor in my life and wasn't even thought of as an "issue" when we were dating or even when we got married, because I just wasn't doing it then. It was a non-factor. It comes and goes and now that it's here, I don't have a problem keeping it "my little thing" as it doesn't consume me and it's rare when I do. We are all different and we can't lump all of us into one big box of "crossdressers".

    Just my rant
    Jenny
    I'm with Jenny and <quite strongly> mikell on this one... but fair play to Nadine for being bold enough to let everyone know her opinion and what her choice would be.
    My overwhelming reason to join this forum was to try to make sense of my on and off, purging and persisting patterns that trouble me, scare me and delight me all at once. I don't believe opening up to anyone that knows me now would serve to settle any internal conflict - although I know that I am not likely to really get closure on what I feel, I also know that I have to make a choice on whether or not it's right for me and right for those I love and care about. That has to be a personal choice based on the personalities and individuals involved - it has plenty shades of grey in it for me! And while it's deceit, I'm afraid that is the way us humans are wired.
    For those of you who have been able to share - and for whom a positive outcome has been the result - then you are truly fortunate and blessed. I know I have to carry my predilection as something of a private burden (slight whiff of burning martyr...?) but in all sincerity I believe it's my responsibility to carry... for now, at least.
    But hey, it's been a provocative thread... and my brain's spinning...

    Kx
    "Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
    Stefani Germanotta

  25. #75
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    When is it OK to deceive your spouse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine Spirit View Post
    Never.... It is reprehensible in my mind. There is absolutely no acceptable reason for that.
    From another post a day later:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine Spirit View Post
    You are all correct in that maybe not telling your spouse is the best choice, I do not know your life.
    Maybe Nadine is coming around.

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