If you like being a woman, it is better to tell your wife, because one day she will knowl. That's what I did and she accepts me as I am
If you like being a woman, it is better to tell your wife, because one day she will knowl. That's what I did and she accepts me as I am
I would like to add that everyones situation is different. I also did not like to be compared to an adulterer. I have a question for the black and white morality that has been brought up. If I were to be in the military/CIA and did some, lets say horrible things that were to be completely secret would I have to tell my wife? According to the B&W morality I have to tell (COMPLETE honesty). Is this correct? Seems to me there are more than the two colors we are talking about and that complete honesty is something we need to decide for ourselves. I came to this site because I did not know about crossdressing and needed to be educated about it BEFORE I came out (I did after being on this site).
One last thing- as a man, if I am asked by a GG "do these pants make my butt look big" do you really think I am going to say "yes"?
You'll find very few people who don't have accepting spouses who'll say "tell her no matter what!" That should tell anyone all they need to know:
- either all spouses are accepting. (giggle, sorry, tried to keep a straight face)
- people with stories with sad endings don't tend to stick around here
Up to you to decide which is more likely.
Corollary to the above propositions: (choose one)
- most people know you and your spouses marriage better than you do, despite the fact they've never met either of you
- many people are unable to visualize situations that differ from their own.
Hope this helps.
i have not had my real life example yet-planed for after the holidays, whats a few more weeks at this point, we see you say (I was not upfront in the beginning) to which end you had a favorable result, not always the case, your comment comes off constructive, not judgmental, sure we dont have to tell you its not an easy task...youve done itOriginally Posted by gendermutt
how long was "not up front", length of time surely plays into the difficulty from your post, im dealing with old school stuff, "faggot" was term used a lot in my younger days, people laughed at "faggots", who wanted to be associated with them, push you deep into a closet, "crossdressing" almost PC by those standards, hard choices made years ago, my cross to bear, lest ye not judge me. came for support, someone to have my 6. not point out my faults. could you walk a mile in my heels...
Last edited by mykell; 12-12-2013 at 10:44 PM.
....Mykell
i dressed like a girl and i liked it!crossdressing...theirs an app for that
@ wildaboutheels
Your right, its not really deception its a LIE, and what compounds this is the fact that its SELFISH! so who would want to marry a person who lies and only thinks of themselves?? I'm not trying to bash anyone about the situation they knowingly /willfully put themselves in, But If I can help just one person understand the situation that they are about to put themselves in..before they say I DO!NOT telling anyone something they do not need to know is not deception, no matter who they are or what the Relationship.
The one thing that is missing here is the lack of consideration for the other person in this equation, go ask a gg about her thoughts on this and let me know what ya find
Last edited by DAVIDA; 12-13-2013 at 11:23 AM. Reason: Removed political statment •Politics, with the exception of TG rights in the Media Sectionement.
Well . . . going to pile in here as I am sure most are aware of my thoughts on this "shame, shame . . . liar, liar pants on fire" tactic to force people to out themselves.
Yes Nadine, you are right, it is not nice to lie but we all do it in some form or another. Anyone who says they don't lie I will call bull%$#t on this that. If you want to come back and tell me that lying to your wife about CDing is different then telling a white lie to someone as nobody gets hurt, here is another saying "you can't get a little bit pregnant" You either lie (to whomever it doesn't matter) or not. So please do not take the moral high ground.
It took me 20+ years to come out to my wife because I quite frankly did not understand it and when I did, I came clean because to not do so would quite frankly have destroyed me and my wife. Bear in mind I did not wake up one day and say "hey I think I will meet a girl, lie to her then 24 years later spring it on her".
The point is, we all make decisions based on personal circumstances which nobody can fathom unless they are that person. Some come clean right away . . . I say good for you and I am glad it worked out. Others take some time. Some never will and nobody has the right to tell them they are wrong or bad. Goodness we take enough flak from the public writ large without turning in one another.
While you are certainly free to state your opinion "I think we should all tell our wives" and nobody would fault you for that, using statements like "reprehensible" is not on and serves no purpose in making your point.
My two cents.
Isha
Last edited by Marcelle; 12-12-2013 at 09:31 PM.
While I respect your opinion I must disagree. If after being married for a few years you start feeling the need to cross-dress and you do it by yourself keeping it to yourself is OK. Once you start needing to involve your SO or someone else you owe to them to talk about it. But dressing when they or you are away is not harming.
I have been with my SO for 23 years. I shared my secret with her after about five years. I asked her later if I had told her about my desire to dress as a woman at the beginning would she have continued the relationship. Unequivocal no! On the other hand, when she had time to really know who I really was the crossdressing became, for the most,part, a non issue.
The point is, there is no pat answer. We have a wonderful relationship that never would have been,possible had I followed the advice of most on this forum - tell the unvarnished truth right away. One size does not fit all.
The only time its ok to lie is when you come home after clothes shopping! If something cost $150.00 then you say it was $99.99
On the main subject I'm with Nadine, don't lie about it or if you do lie then don't bitch that you wish things were different. Its too bad that many of us back in the day before the internet thought we could control everything and bury these TG dreams we now have. There's so much hiding on this forum......
Kristina,
I checked your profile,
I have a son your age,he does not remember a time without the internet and I'm sure you or your wife don't either. You both are very lucky as you will never know what it was like in the good old days. We girls that are of of a certain age were brought up in a different world than the one in which you came of age. We have spend most of lives in that hidden, secretive life, not knowing that there were others out there like us. Our wives perception of expected gender roles were also formed in that very different world.
I'm glad that the attitudes towards gender roles have changed and that people are more accepting . That change has allowed you and Nadine to be open in your marriage from the start. Don't judge those of us from a different era through the eyes of your world.
I'm glad that you hang out with older people because old people know stuff. Myself included, the older girls you hang with have lived long enough to not care what people think anymore. Just as I don't care what you think.
You have shown me the error of my decision to not tell my wife before marriage ,now if you would just point me to that time machine I'll go back to 1971 and tell my future wife all about my desire to cross dress. Of course that would eliminate my two sons as she has told me that she would never have married me if she had known.
Maybe I should have come out when I started teaching 30 years ago in a small Utah town. I'm sure the school board would have been very understanding. The Ten years I spent as Boy Scout leader would have been much more interesting.
I don’t have a self -imposed world of “the way things used to be” I lived through a world of “That is how it was”!
Contrary to your belief my life has not been miserable .I dressed when I could and enjoyed it without damage to my marriage, career , loss of friends or my children not having to explain me to there friends. I did not put myself first. As I have said, it was the crossdressing that upset my wife not the fact I didn't tell her.
BTW Please ask those brave , wise girls of my generation when they finally came out of the closet.
I’ll bet it was closer to 1985 than 1950.
The danger many of us felt about coming out was often very real. I'll give you a small example. There was one openly gay, effeminate kid in our high school class in 1981. He got murdered for being gay. And you can protest "BUT WE AREN'T GAY!!!!" And you are right - but I'll also point out - "THE NORMAL PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT NOR SEE ANY DIFFERENCE."
I learned at a young age that keeping my mouth closed, and hiding as best I could, was an excellent survival skill.
Why not tell the person who you trusted most in the world? Because most of us had never met anyone who WOULD understand, at least those were our fears.
well said Paula
I learned at a young age that keeping my mouth closed, and hiding as best I could, was an excellent survival skill.
Why not tell the person who you trusted most in the world? Because most of us had never met anyone who WOULD understand, at least those were our fears.
Yep you're right and I just said in another post that I did not know 1 gay person in high school. But, there was a transgender MTF that enrolled at my best friend's high school. She had the shit beat out of her every day for a week and then nobody ever heard of her again. I wasn't going to put my hand up in the air and say I might be in the same boat. I thought I was the only freak in the world.
People in the 60's were thrown in jail for being gay. Who knows what they did in the 50's?
@Launa - btw, I'm not trying to rationalize not telling your spouse. I would never argue that the time to do it is before it gets so serious that you are too terrified of risking the loss of someone dear to spill the truth.
Just pointing out that for many of us, we felt stuck between a rock and a hard place, and that NONE of our choices were worth a damn. So right or wrong, we chose the path of survival, and in my view, it's hard to fault a person too much for that choice.
BTW, in the 50's and 60's, electro-convulsive therapy was popular for CDs admitted to mental institutions.
Case specific, I’m going to go into the area, of call it whatever you want, but it’s ok to not out yourself and from your partner. Each person’s relationship, marriage, spouse, SO, is different. Yes I told my wife before we became engaged. Yes I lucked out in that she accepted, and I’ve never regretted telling her since, and I’m glad I took that life changing gamble in coming out the closet to her.
However I had to reach the point, where I accepted, and approved of being TG, and was past the point of trying to cure myself. So when I came out to her, I sold it in the most confident manner, not leaving any doubt in her mind that I am a cross dresser, no if’s and’s or buts, it’s not up for discussion as far as me ever quitting, this is a part of the person you love and who loves you.
If in my ethical dilemma to be so truthful I decided to my tell my wife earlier or tell past women I dated which came very close to marriage, it would have been pointless, I probably would have turned them off to the idea, being that I did not accept it myself, and desperately wanted to stop at all cost. This probably would have resulted in them breaking up with me, and as an unintended consequence my entire extended circle of family, friends, co-workers, and possibly employer finding out. Now that scenario is not as scary as it was going back close to 10 years ago.
In short I guess that’s one area I won’t pass judgment on any longer. I can’t judge another member’s marital or relationship situation to say “you really should tell your wife/SO everything”. I’m not going to be there to help pay for said members potential divorce attorney, alimony, child support, and any other negative consequence that may occur. So I’m not going be suggesting “come out to the closet, and stop being deceitful” to satisfy my own personal ethics and morals.
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It is being stuck in a hard place and I will say that I feel its ok to keep this a secret if you're in your 70's, been married for a very long time and the wife never knew?
Then keep it a secret as you have gone this far in your life and why cause heartache at this age to your spouse but if your in your early 60's or younger and the TG tendencies are so bad that you need to start fully dressing. Then I do believe its time to talk about what's driving you nuts and figure out what your going to be doing about it.
I know at a young age we kept our mouths shut and that is sometimes a wise choice especially before the internet. But in todays day and age you're better to be open about it so you're not haunted down the road. That's just my opinion
And, if you put ketchup (Catsup) on your hot dogs, that is WRONG also, cause that is not how I DO IT!!
Everyone is free to think and do whatever they would like to. You are free to think I am wrong to suggest telling your spouse everything, and I am free to think that you should tell your spouse everything.
If I tell you that I smoke, and you tell me that you think smoking is wrong, does that make you closed minded? I don't think so, I think that it means you care about me enough to tell me the truth. Do I care about everyone enough to tell them the truth, no but my spouse, yes.
Have your opinions changed my mind, nope. Not a bit. I think that most of us understand that the desire to cross dress is not a choice. We don't have control over that. But honesty is a choice. I choose to be honest with my spouse. It is my OPINION that it is in YOUR best interest to be honest simply because currently for most of you it is your choice right now, but one day it might not be.
Okay, let the flaying continue.
Wow! Now there's a notion I've repressed for decades. Back in college in the 70's there was precious little information on what we were going through, but the medical notion was out there that we had a disease and shock therapy was a promising cure.
The shame of having this perversion, the constant stress about wanting to explore it while hoping it would disappear, the self-imposed stigma, the clear understanding that there were two roads: 1) not share the dirty secret, or 2) never get married, because no woman in their right mind would ever enter into a relationship with such a freak.
So, what happened? My future bride found my stash and called me on the carpet. We talked it through, she asked to see me dressed. She found the whole thing repulsive but weighed the good and the bad and decided I was a keeper. She also requested DADT - I can do my thing, but she doesn't want to know about it. And, that's how it's been for over 30 years. I'm a lucky, lucky fella.
Would I impose our solution on you? No way, that would be an act of extreme arrogance I would find reprehensible. Hugs, Michelle
I agree, it was very different when I was a kid in high school also. I remember a guy who sat next to me for two years in Art class, we would also walk to our next class together. The seats were assigned alphabetically so it was not like we were drawn together. He had very effeminate mannerisms, etc, and he was continually given a difficult time by most of the other boys. To put it simply, his life was a type of hell. It was about two years after high school that a friend and I were leaving a bar when these two "girls" came in the door at the same time. I recognized him right off, and the other girl wasn't, if you get my meaning. As we hit the street my friend started to laugh saying did you get a look at those drag queens. I said nothing, but what I really wanted to do was go back in and talk to him. Over the following days, I regretted not going back in, I wanted to talk and find out what it was like for him as I was the same, but I didn't have the courage to leave the closet. In those days gays, and crossdressers were usually given a severe beating if caught. Seeing how people of different lifestyles were treated was enough to bury anyone different deeply into their closet.
I like myself, regardless of the packaging that I may come in! It's what is on the inside of the package that counts!
I would argue that it was a favorable result.... I have hurt my wife and caused a rift in her trust. That is not favorable in my book. I told her because I felt it I did not tell her, she would one day discover it and that would be even more damaging, and more likely to cause the marriage to end. By not telling her, I had to continue to hide my feelings and desires. And now that I have told her, I am likely offering up more compromise then I would have if I had told her at the formation of my relationship with her. I do not see any of this as being favorable.we see you say (I was not upfront in the beginning) to which end you had a favorable result, not always the case, your comment comes off constructive, not judgmental, sure we dont have to tell you its not an easy task...youve done it
Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned
I so wish life were that cut and dry. Do I want to tell my wife? Absolutely! Have I broached the subject? Absolutely! Would it cause more grief, pain, etc. to her? Absolutely! Is protecting her feelings worth it? Absolutely!
A great exchange, I enjoy reading the back & forth, without too many rocks being hurled! I told my wife after 12 years of marriage, but it took me 52 years for me to accept me, I couldn't expect her to instantly come to the same conclusion. I was a coward in denial, but like others have said, I did not think it was going to be an issue back then. Finding this forum was a turning point for me, able to see others and read their stories, I was enthralled watching some of the the threads as members would write about the plans to tell their SO and what they should say, some would update with heartwarming tales of acceptance and others would update about how awful the reaction was and they would write dispatches as the marriage would be crumbling down around them. Very sobering!! I weighed the pros and cons and took the chance and was indeed so very lucky. While my wife certainly does not encourage my cross-dressing, I stick within mutually agreed boundaries and I am happier than I ever thought I could be!! The path we walk is full of choices that we must make and although our stories are VERY similar, every one of us here is on our own and must decide accordingly. I enjoy being part of this group of understanding people.
Thank you!
Ina
I preface this with the understanding that every situation is different and life is not so black and white. While I can sympathize w /Nancyjo, I have torched a marriage with lies and deception which included being cd/tg.Is protecting her feelings worth it? Absolutely!
what would be the end result here if nacy's wife knew, would it end the marriage? by the sound of it most likely. So why would it end the marriage?
The reality here is that you are not protecting her feelings but ultimately you are only thinking of yourself in how you can preserve your current situation. I know that sounds cruel but you HAVE to put yourself in your wifes position, If she finds out the hard way will she be more hurt that u like to cd or that you couldn't be honest with someone who you are suppost to trust with your life?? If he can lie about that what else is he hiding?? then she will think "this is not the person I married" Again im not telling u to disclose to her or for anyone in a similar situation to either. What I'm trying to do here is perhaps help someone make an informed decision about being honest with yourself and your fiance before taking vows.
It's flogging, not flaying, but you'll learn that in time as well. The problem is you just don't get how offensive it is to tell people you're Shocked that they aren't as open as you are, and weren't since day 1. Assuming you know how more about someone else's marriage because things worked out for you, or for someone else, is just plain wrong. We all grew up differently, married different women or men, did our best to deal with ourselves despite the fact that just about everyone thought we were deviant, and came to terms with ourselves in spite of the fact that we were taught since we entered school that boys did not wear dresses, did not like pretty things, and anyone who strayed from the boy path was to be shunned. Our wives heard the same things. Most of our wives did not think "Gee, I want to marry a transvestite" (that's what we were all called until about 1990, and sometimes beyond), thus telling them was the deal-breaker for almost everyone. I suppose members who didn't tell can go back today and say "Honey, I was a fraud, our marriage was a fraud, our kids that I helped raise don't really belong to me because I was a fraud, and you deserve better than me because I was a fraud for not telling you" and in your world everything is as it should be since that will get rid of everyone who was a fraud, but that doesn't work for me. I'm not going to judge people who dealt with extremely difficult situations as best as they knew how, and frankly you have no right to either.
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