Cliques annoy me!

[KaceyR]

This is what I've been trying to figure out around here (same area).
I've dug into the several groups' pages (LBGT) in the area to figure out what their true feelings/impressions of CDers are or if their meetings/get togethers actually include CD. I get hints that one group is more to supporting the family of a TGer than would the CDer herself. Others seem to be focused more on people going thru full transition. So I'm perplexed about what's truly going here in SE MI. One actually meets right next to the building I work at...heh.

I've gotten odd feelings like there's a bit of disdain against CD by the LBG community in general as well so and still haven't exactly figured out if,where,when etc to go to. This aspect has also limited me 'coming out' to a friend of mine..known for a couple decades but she's part of the 'L' crowd. She also has ties to coworkers so that adds another factor.

Add to that is that I'm not the greatest socializer to begin with. It's been some time since I've been to a literal club/bar...and probably 20+ years since going into one solo. And even then that's an added hill for me..esp for Lorileah's take on it. I'm just not forward enough in RL to be that outgoing to start things.

Heck, I was halfway thinking on stopping by the Grand Rapids group for their meeting if my work arrangement works out. At least they are more direct on what they're about as a group.

I'd thought I might ask the folks at Janet's about all of these this week but even Janet's has been a bit standoffish for some.

The cliques side I guess is all over..just another social aspect I guess. (cue high school flashbacks here ) And yeah logically confusing. As such a group out there trying to find tolerance and acceptance in the world..to not be more open to others themselves just seems slightly hypocritical. On the other side...some could be determined based on past experiences so if they grouped based on some shared intolerant event, possibly as a group they isolate themselves due to that. hard to say.
Overall it definitely is a hindrance to a newbie in the field... Not only do you fight your own battle in just getting out, but then you're fighting this social mess. And for someone just trying to work out who or what you are, it just seems a bit of wasted energy to deal with.

On Flikr.. I've seen it to be a bit messy at times. So I've not bothered with it. I've done my own different hosting of pics for forums and put stuff on my Facebook page but other than that just decided to stay away from Flikr.

[Jilmac]

Hi Jen, from the looks of your avatar I don't understand why the girls on flikr don't reply to you. You look very pretty in your blonde hair and red lipstick. Perhaps your city on Lake Huron isn't as accepting as those on the opposite side of Lake Michigan.

[Leah Lynn]

I'm sure my group isn't the only one in existance that is all inclusive. We try to meet every month and have great time. The bar we go to is quite eclectic; L-G-B-T and anyone else that shows up. Many hetero's frequent the place. Our group has a cross section of this group; cd's, tg's, hetero, gay, lesbian, spouses, everyone. I hear of cliques, like you describe, and find it hard to relate, by comparison. I invite everyone to come to our next GNO, to just have fun in a nonjudgemental atmosphere. However, we're in Iowa.

That's between Minnesota and Missouri, and between the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers. Not Ohio, not Idaho; Iowa. That does not stand for Idiots Out Wandering Around!

Hugs,

Leah

[MsVal]

I believe that cliques are in every group of people larger than two, and possibly in some smaller groups too. Don't let your observation get you down. You may reach out to 100 people, but you really can't have that many friends now can you? You only need a couple (and their couple...) to have a good time. The problem may be that you just haven't found the one or two that are good matches and worthy of your special friendship. When you do find those people, please let us all know so we can share your happiness.

[Badtranny]

This "clique" thing is mostly just a figment of your imagination.

Since I live in the real world and have no secrets or closets, I tend to meet a lot of people and some of those people are socially inept. They just don't know how to meet or get along with other people very well. They expect everyone to fall over themselves making them feel special or involved. These are the people that complain about cliques.

Here's how it really works; nobody cares about your social life. If you want to meet people than you have to MEET people. Say "hi" or something, be friendly, be engaging, be interesting, be somebody that someone might WANT to actually meet. Nobody wants to hang out with a sad sack who just sits around talking about how nobody likes them.

[Anna H]

I'm still brand new to all of this myself. I never even
took a single picture of myself til November.

I started out on one of the more 'anonymous' places,
but soon it became clear that i was "too old" for them
there. (All i do is mention my age...which was asked
pretty quickly, and then I'm in my own personal
clique...whether I like it or not.)

I'm still at the point of having little clue what I'm even
doing most days....but I do have some experience with
forums/groups, so I know the only way to get going
is to dive right in and make posts....however scary
that may be. (and after 10 years...it's still scary on a
new forum....never know which clique I'll be put into. It's
never been my choice)

So, I try to throw in a bit about myself with every post to
see where I end up. Strange how I'm 'too old' for so many
places....but I see this is where there are lots of us
older gals so it should work out fine here.

I don't really get facebook....as it seems to me that someone
needs more hours in a day than there are --just to keep up.
And those IM things....I can't keep up with those either.
(i still type with one finger....)

And the 'friend' concept. Do you wait for someone to
be your friend, of do I just 'invite' everyone I see?

The main thing to say is that I'm very friendly, I'm not
much for cliques, I'm dead slow, I'm old, I'm not on the
computer 24/7...so replies can take awhile, I forget,
I'm overwhelmed easily...(work vs. play timing) And, it's
all very new to me.

My experience (limited) with the little cliques at other
places has been that when I end up 'inter-cliqued'...I
get demoted. Why heck, how was I supposed to know...
the rules aren't posted anywhere.

Oh well. I'll just keep at it and see where I end up.
I will say it's a *Much* friendlier place here than what I've
seen elsewhere.


Rambling Kate! ♥

[AmyGaleRT]

Well, Jennifer, I think you're gorgeous. I think it's just the club you were at. At a place like the Black Crown, you wouldn't get the same reception; we're all friendly there. I know I'm always happy to see a new sister there, and I've brought a couple with me for their very first outings as women.

Don't lose heart! There may be a better place you can go hang out at nearby.

- Amy

[(Sara)]

Cliques are part of every day life in my opinion, I think we are all in one in some shape or form. It is a matter of not letting that get to your head, but it is easier said than done. People like to be with like minded people, it is shown in the class divides, rich marry rich for example. There are always exceptions to the rule, but I think this is ingrained in human culture and it is something we take from some and dish out to others without realising it. My best advice would be to try to accept this is going to happen and shrug it off if you fall victim of one.

[Alice Torn]

I have been a bit of a shy loner much of my life, and cliques are in every school cxlass, every sports team, club, church, yada yada yada.

[Jenniferx]

Well this certainly got some interesting comments! Thanks also to those who sent me kind personal comments. It's fairly obvious that a lot of us have the same feelings about these cliques.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not hurt too badly by this, I just don't think people should behave this way. When it comes to acceptance, after all most of us have gone through and continue to go through... we should know better than to judge or exclude others, I think.

[AllieSF]

I like Morgan Ashley's, Lorileah and Bad Tranny's (Melissa"s) comments. If you are quiet person, somewhat or a lot introverted or shy, type of loner, then your perspective on the friendliness of a specific group may be totally opposite of mine. I think of cliques as being special groups who limit new members. The key is the word "limit". I can go to any party, get together, neighborhood parties or support groups, if it is a large enough gathering, then there are always small groups scattered about sitting or standing or both into conversations that keeps them all together. To me they are not cliques, but just a group of people talking about an interesting topic for them. For the quiet person they may seem exclusive, but to me they are just another stopping point as I make my way around the room looking for an interesting conversation to join.

I have been to two clubs in Detroit, where I think that you may live close to, the Rainbow Room (is it still there?) on 8 Mile Road and Gigi's on Warren Road and the Southfield Freeway. Even though I grew up in the Detroit area, I was not dressing at that time and had no idea that they even existed. I went back there a few years ago and went to both twice in separate trips. I went with someone from the area and a member here, MsGinadoll, for the first times. The other times I went by myself. Both times I had an enjoyable time and ended up talking with a few locals and regulars. No one treated me bad or ignored me, some treated me very friendly and others were so-so. That is just what I expected since I was the newbie and the others were the regulars and some even very seasoned veterans.

When I sat down that first time, I picked a seat close to some of the girls like me and just asked if that seat was taken. When they said no, I took it, ordered a drink and looked for an opportunity to introduce myself and ask a few typical questions while stating that I was new to this club. As the others have said, I reached out to them, not expecting anything more than a light conversation while I watched what was happening and enjoyed my drink. I was the stranger and I made the effort to be included for a short while. I did meet some very nice people and also a few that dressed as they wished and which was not my style. But I just figured that they might also not like how I dressed either. So, live and let live. I didn't have to hang with anyone if I did not want to. So, the choice was mine. So, my recommendation is to just continue to take those first steps of sitting next to the action, introducing yourself and asking simple questions to get to know them, the club and whatever else may stimulate an interesting conversation.

Now, regarding you comment about the upper Midwest not being warm and friendly, I have to totally disagree with you. Now I came from those once peaceful northwest suburbs a very long time ago, but the whole Midwest is generally known for their very friendly and warm personalities. Maybe I grew up in the wrong part of town or at a different time, who knows why you have that opinion. My family, nieces and nephews and their kids still live there and all of our family generations are still the same, outgoing, friendly and fun people to be around.

Regarding the super cute CD's who seem to always reject your attempts to strike up a conversation or to maybe become friends, there can be two sides to that. The first one and maybe the most probable reason, may be that the pretty ones may just get approached by a lot of strangers over time (too many contacts for them) and may like their current group of friends and are not ready for more to join in. That happens a lot. Though, an interesting side of that train of thought is that later in life as I have become very bold in my approach to strangers to talk with them, I have asked several very beautiful young and middle aged GG's about their view point of being the most beautiful, shapely and maybe even sexy women in the room. To my surprise a few told me that they actually were pretty lonely when they were younger because their good looks made others think that they were unapproachable, and they really missed those opportunities to meet new people. Now take all that into our much smaller CD world where in my opinion there are all kinds of us out there, including those that may not fit one's personal choice for an acquaintance, and maybe a few of those girls and ladies have their nice group of friends and really do not want to put themselves in a maybe awkward position of eventually telling someone that they do not want to hang with them on a regular basis any longer. It can be like dating someone where they are into the other person but the other is not and will not get to the same level of interest and may even want to stop the relationship and find someone new.

I wish you the best of luck and please try some of the recommendations given here, especially in trying to take multiple first steps to start the ball rolling. You could treat it as a numbers game where the more you try, many contacts, the better chance you have a meeting a few compatible friends.

[Michelle (Oz)]

You have received helpful comments Jennifer but I'll take a different stance.

My dressing has now evolved to the point it is more just a part of my 'normal' life. I don't feel a need to form part of a group or be with others. Indeed group events require organising and often don't fit in with my timetable. The outcome is that I've formed friendships with a number of people with whom I interact as part of being out and about. As in life, few friendships are close and others are more acquaintances.

Life really isn't a popularity contest - seeking popularity is a recipe for disappointment. It exposes you to the power of others over your life - the more you seek to be part of a group the more power that you give the group over you.

Don't misunderstand me, femme outings with others whether Cder or not are most welcome. We are after all social beings. Perhaps it comes down to the priority we give to acceptance and our own self confidence.

[rocketscientist]

Very well said Michelle. I feel exactly the same way.

[Aprilrain]

I guess I'm a little confused?

So in a sentence or two you dismiss hairy men who mastubate and look like Norman Bates but then you whine about not getting validation from the pretty "gurls"?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying but it sounds like its ok for you to be judgmental of TGs who don't live up to your standard but shame on those pretty bitches for ignoring you. Is that about right?

Maybe they just don't like being called "gurls"
I know I sure don't.

[Dawna Ellen Bays]

I'm reasonably sure I know at least one of the "Flickr Cliques" (c'mon, that's CUTE) of which Jennifer speaks. I often see pics on Flickr taken at SCC, and it seems there are a gang of beauties who love having their pictures taken together, and there's never a picture of any of them posed with someone who's less than stunning, let alone "passable." I totally get Jennifer's reaction, because you'd think that with ALL of us being considered "outcasts" by most of society that there would be a little more camaraderie among us, and not "outcasts" outcast by the "prettier" outcasts. That's not meant to offend anyone, it's just how I see it, and I'm glad I'm not the only one.

On the other hand, of course, I could be wrong about them; they might all be absolute sweethearts, too, and I'm probably just judging books by their covers. I'm friends with some absolute stunners here, and they don't seem the least bit "bitchy" towards me...

[Vickie_CDTV]

As for the whole "everyone needs to be a TS thing", don't worry about it. That trope is as old as the trans community itself. After all these years I still get people telling me I am a TS in denial and need to go down the same path as they are on... like I don't spend LOTS of time with transsexuals and have nothing to compare my experience to, geez...

[Lynn Marie]

I spent 40 years as an on-site service tech. Every day I'd have to meet a half dozen or so people, introduce myself, listen to their problems or needs, and then take care of their needs. It was great fun and very rewarding work. I loved it. Others that I worked with hated the same job! Cliques are made up of insecure people clinging together for mutual support. The "circle the wagons" mindset. Your entry is solely dependant on your own sense of self confidence. Find a person in a clique, get them talking about themselves, and your in! Don't try to impress anyone, don't expect anyone to be interested in you, and don't accept any form of rejection. Being genuinely interested in others is the secret key to people's hearts.

[Dana_Drake]

Jennifer, you are stunning. Perhaps the people who demean you are jealous. In my experience, those preaching tolerance are often the most intolerant.

[Jackie7]

Lorileah and badtrannie have it right, if you want to have a friend you need to get out there and offer to be a friend.

This came home to me in a way I've never forgotten, some years ago when I was just beginning to go out en femme. I met an old college friend for lunch, a GG who through circumstances and a terrible auto accident has become rather unusual looking, what with her mane of grey curls, blind eye, gimpy leg and cane. We were standing in line at a drugstore, she struck up a chat with the person behind us. I'm sure I looked like those Norman-Bates-in-a-dress men that OP describes and was trying to be inconspicuous, and I was quite embarrassed to be drawn into the public conversation.

Afterward I shared my discomfort and asked her why she usually did that, chatting up whomever was nearby. Her reply: "I'm preventing nuclear war. Talking to other people is the only way I can do that." Took me a while to get my head around it but she was right. Sit down, say hi and introduce yourself. Shovel out a compliment, see what comes back.

[Jenniferx]

Well I'm not sure, maybe 50/50, those who got my point and those who missed it completely and only got my snarky remarks. I don't know how anyone could disagree with a theme of more acceptance in the CD/ TG community, especially for those who may need it most (and that may not even be me frankly). I'll be honest I'm glad this torqued some of you up, though I sense some just troll for a chance to light it up anyway.
Next new thread: People who miss the point annoy me! LOL
Jennifer

[Lorileah]

Well I'm not sure, maybe 50/50, those who got my point and those who missed it completely and only got my snarky remarks.
Next new thread: People who miss the point annoy me! LOL
Jennifer

then maybe you need to be MORE clear about your point? No?

[Michelle (Oz)]

Next new thread: People who miss the point annoy me! LOL
Jennifer

I'm not sure which camp I'm in and I don't care. When I put effort into responding to make you feel better about yourself as many have in this thread and you respond as you did then it is like a kick in the teeth.

You are new here Jennifer but now members will know to ignore you. I certainly will.