Wow

[Deborah]

[SIZE=3]I'm all confused now. Not that i care about labels.....i would like to know where i fit in. (forum-wise)

So let me give you a break down.
I started feeling (i hate saying that because it's so hard to explain) female at a young age. I didn't start crossdressing until i was 12 i believe only because i was never left alone until that age.
I may have messed around playing if you know what i mean while dressed up but not for to long. Within a few months i was thinking "God please let me wake up as a girl" thing like many here have.
At age 17 i joined the army "to make a man out of me." Didn't work to well. I had alot of people saying "Your such a girl." Inside i loved the compliment but was afraid someone might figure me out. Especially being in the military it was an uncomfortable feeling. At age 24 i got married. I hate to say it but i don't really think i loved her. Getting out of the barracks and the "maybe this will make a man of me" feeling kicked in again.
After leaving the army and later getting divorced ("Deborah" had nothing to do with it) I found myself alone....BUT i got custody of our 3 children.
I would die before i gave her custody of my children. Think of the wicked step mother in Cinderella and you wouldn't be far off of my Ex.
So here i am...single parent and there is no way i will transition. As much as i'd like to my kids have been through enough and they love their "Dad."

God only knows what will happen in the future but i see myself as "Dad" for along time.

Thanks for reading if you made it this far.
P.S This has got to be the longest post i've ever made here lol.
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[ChristineRenee]

Hiya Deborah. Sounds to me like you are very similar to me...a TG who has no desire to transition. I consider myself dual gendered...a composite male and female. I feel like I have a lot of female emotions and feelings but with male brain wiring...a major reason, along with my age, that I would never go on to GRS...I know that I am not a TS. I too started CD'ing at the age of 12. I had a very male oriented childhood so I can definitely say that this did not come from environmental influences. I was also in the military for 3 years back in the early 1970's...went in when I was 20. While I didn't CD during that time at all...it had no change internally on the person that I was evolving to be.

I didn't marry until I was almost 43 years old. I was engaged to a WAC stationed where I was in the military for a year and a half...but that broke up...for reasons not related to me being a CD. Before I got married...I had all but given up on finding a GG that I thought would ever put up with me. Then I found the woman who would become my wife and I told her of my CD'ing while we were still dating. She seemed to be ok with it and within a year we got married...her second marriage...my first. Although I have probably been TG all my life...it has only been the past four years that I have recognized that. I told my wife at that time. I have been doing HRT for the past 2 years and plan to continue it for at least one more but have no plans or desire to go further. Needless to say...this has been a difficult thing for my wife to deal with as it brought out many concerns for her that I would still go on to do GRS no matter what I was telling her to the contrary. We have been together almost 13 years now and while it hasn't been the smoothest of marriages by any means...CD/TG issues aside...we both love each other very much and want this marriage to work and for it to be better and better...particularly now that we are both retired. It takes a lotta love, communication and understanding, but what in life that is worth having doesn't?

Well...that's my story Deborah. It's been a long journey for me to get to where I am today...a lot of introspection, soul searching...and also... understanding, accepting, and finally embracing the person that I am. I can't honestly say that it is something that I would have chosen to go through...but I will say that maybe for having had to go through it all, I may have emerged a stronger and overall better person because of it. I sure would like to think that I am anyway!

Hope this helps you in some way find where you fit in here...and that you will enjoy being a member of our community here!

[Stlalice]

Deborah,

Given the story and circumstances in your post the odds are that you are TS rather than TG if labels are important to you. The feelings of being in the wrong body, the attempts to "make a man of myself" by joining the military and getting married, the failure of that marriage, etc. are all common features of the life stories of TS folk. The fact that you are for the time being stuck in Non - op status in no way makes you less a TS than anyone else with those feelings. For many if not a majority of TS folk SRS is a dream that they will not be able to fulfill for reasons that range from financial, to family, to medical, etc. Think of SRS as the icing on the cake - not the cake itself. What is important and the one factor that separates a true TS from a TG/CD etc. is your GENDER IDENTITY. If you, given a male body, identify as a woman and the thought of the surgery does not give you nightmares then you are quite likely TS. For the most part a TG or CD individual is comfortable with their birth sex/gender identity and the thought of changing their genitals surgically horrifies them as much as it does the average individual. What they have is a feminine side to their personality that they feel the need to express and they MAY go so far as to take HRT, do hair removal, cosmetic surgery (FFS) to further this. Confusing ? Very much so - this is why in order to get SRS you have to get the therapy and live the life by doing the real life test - the whole purpose is to keep you from making bad or ill informed decisions that are NOT reversible and would cause you even more pain than you now are in. Hope this helps you kid - feel free to PM if you want to talk further.

One additional note - I see no reason what so ever not to read or post in BOTH of the Transgender forums - just use your own judgement about which one is the most appropriate for any given post.

[GypsyKaren]

Hi Deborah

There's surely nothing wrong with not transitioning or going further, I sure don't plan or desire it. I'm happy as a clam, happy as is, you know. Personally speaking, getting cut up or shot up won't make me feel any more feminine than I do now, I already can go out as the real me, so I see nothing to gain. Besides, I promised my daughter that I wouldn't show up at her wedding in a dress.

One thing I don't worry or care about is labels, they're for clothes and food cans, not people. You are what you are, and as long as you're happy, that's all that matters.

I got divorced in 1977 and got custody of my son, had to fight like hell to get him. I know how hard it is to be a single parent, but it's also very rewarding, isn't it? To me it was all the riches in the world, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. To me I am always Karen, but I will always be dad too, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

GypsyKaren

[jamie_44]

Hi Deborah,
I am in a somwhat similar situation. I am married, (16yrs) with children. I did the "manly" things growing up too, played a lot of sports, nobody would have ever guessed my feelings inside of wanting to be a woman. I love my wife and kids very much and as much as I would like to switch, it is just a fantasy.
I would have a better chance at winning a lottery. Anyway I know exactly how you feel.
A Big Hug!

[Julie]

In reality it doesn't matter how you label yourself. The purpose of separating the two is to allow the transsexual discussion section to focus more on the life issues of transsexuals. A lot of what was posted there, breast pumps, "how can I grow breasts", herbals, etc. are not transsexual issues. TS members would go there and see all these posts that had nothing to do with what they were looking for and most of all needing. For the content that was in it, the title was misleading for the transsexual.

Some of those types of posts started out in the CD section, where they don't belong, but they don't belong in the TS section either. So another "in between" section was created. I considered calling it "The Fence", can't decide which way you want to go - the classic transgenderist.

As described to me by my therapist, "Transgenderists have one foot in each camp. They are not completely happy in one or the other." CDers have no desire to feminize the body. They like being men full time, they just like to crossdress once in a while. TGs aren't satisfied with just crossdressing, they need more but they have no desire to become women. My therapist said the TG life is the most difficult life to lead for one because you are never truly at peace with yourself.

If you read the welcome sticky and the description I included in it, you should have a pretty good idea where you stand. Labels are just that, labels. Take them or leave them. I've probably spent several hundred hours, maybe into the thousands, studying this phenomena trying to figure out where I am. From all I've learned, the separation of the two was a no-brainer. Rather than promote the simplistic definition that transgender is only an all encompassing term I chose to take on the task of further defining it as the experts in the field do.

If you have questions about how you'd be happiest living, as a CD or TG male or full time as a woman, go to the TS section. If you want to experiment with something like herbals and want to see how others have done with them, then this is the place to do that.

I left most of your posts in the TS section because, from what I've read in the past, you have expressed some feelings that are typical of transsexuals. That you don't intend to transition may not matter. I may never transition for a myriad of reasons but from the feedback I got from a gender therapist I'd say she would classify me as TS. If that COGIATI test means anything, I'm a classic transsexual. But I've stopped trying to label myself. It serves no purpose.

I don't know if you read the descriptions under each discussion forum name but I hoped that would lessen confusion. If a better description is needed let me know and maybe we can arrive at something everyone can easily understand. But then again, I wonder how many take the time to even read it.

[MandyTS]

It was a great idea having dual forums like this.

On the idea of being TS or TG/CD I agree that many individuals may have one foot on each side of the fence. Their are so many facets to the spectra. Even better for some of us there are different reasons for doing HRT. What about intersexed persons? What about people testing the the waters with doctor perscribed hormones, etc; the choices are endless.

As for myself, I do not fit into any of these groups. I am begining a long transistion with hormones and leting the "organic" side of me decide what I will do. I don't do the whole label thing anymore; I do chat about it once in a while though. We can only find it in ourselves who we are and either forum will help. What we should have is a hormone subforum for all these questions...

Mandy

[Deborah]

[SIZE=2]

Deborah,
Think of SRS as the icing on the cake - not the cake itself.

[SIZE=3]I've heard that before about SRS. It's a shame that some girls think of it as the other way around. [/SIZE]

[/SIZE][SIZE=2]

I wonder how many take the time to even read it.

[SIZE=3]Yes i read it but i thought maybe i fit in both. Doesn't matter now after reading everything i'll just post in both.

Thank you all for your thoughts and consideration in your posts. That's why i love this place. Most people can relate and for those who can't at least offer some useful advice.

Hugs to all.[/SIZE]
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[Ms. Donna]

Hi Deborah,

If I could forward all the Usenet posts and emails I've made in trying to sort this all out... Truth be told, your story is more the norm than you may realize.

As far as the labels go, here's how I see the three main ones - in general (YMMV):

• TS : Strong core gender identity as the opposite (as per the cisgendered ideal) of that which was assigned to them at birth, accompanied by a compelling need to be as close as possible physically to the sex which corresponds to that gender identity. (The cisgender ideal: 'woman' = 'female' and 'man' = 'male')
• TG : Strong core gender identity as something other than that which was assigned to them at birth. May or may not be accompanied by varying desire to change physical aspects of their bodies to allign it with their gender identity.
• CD : Varing degrees of gender identification as the opposite (as per the cisgendered ideal) of that which was assigned to them at birth. No real desire to change physical aspects of their bodies to allign it with their gender identity.

There are many people who feel quite strongly that they are TS, only to realize later that that really isn't the case and they really are more TG. They make the assumption that you need to go 'all the way' in order to find peace and be happy. Fact is it just ain't the case. I know, because when this all came to a head for me, I was sure that my only option was to transition. After a while, I realized that wasn't what I really wanted - or needed. While I'm sure you've done so, it's worth looking long and hard at yourself to discover what it is that you really need to be happy.

As I state, YMMV. Pick a label, one or more - or pick none. The simple fact is that there aren't enough different labels to cover all of us and others will 'categorize' you as they see fit, regardless of how you see it. Stop trying to find the right group - 'cuz they're all right - and they're all wrong.

As I see it, there is no 'end' to this journey, only continual discovery. The trick is to make the most of it.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

[Julie]

If I were 20, never had kids, and had a more assertive personality, I would probably be a true TS. But, I'm not and am at peace being TG.

That is such a common feeling. I wonder how many of us feel that way. I've never stated it that way but your words perfectly describe how I've felt almost all my life.

The only difference is I am not at peace being TG.

[Deborah757]

That is such a common feeling. I wonder how many of us feel that way. I've never stated it that way but your words perfectly describe how I've felt almost all my life.

The only difference is I am not at peace being TG.

That pretty much describes exactly how I feel also. Kind of like being in a cage that has no door to get out. So I keep coming here hoping to find that nugget of wisdom that reveals the door to the cage.

I also don't have much use for all the labels anymore. I simply am what I am. It's just too bad others can't see and accept that so we wouldn't have to continually wear the mask to conform to them.

Deborah

[Deborah]

[SIZE=3]A special thank you to someone who well.....thank you.
Your wonderful too.[/SIZE]

[Chelsea]

Deborah,
your story sound so much like mine! Right down to being a single parent with 3 kids. I even prayed that exact prayer at the age of 9, Scarey! I do recieve HT and have breasts which most pass of as man boobs. But I do not crossdress in front of my children . Not that my kids would not understand but more from the point of the bullying they would get at school. I'm happy to dress when they are not around as I work from home this is easy. I sometime think about what it would be like to dress fulltime but I believe this would not be putting my kids first, still a gurl can dream.
Luv Chelsea.