Not sure what's going on with me...

[KatieKaboodle]

Mmmmkay, first (obviously) I'm still new to the forums, so I hope this is an okay place to vent. If I'm off the mark or anything, just let me know.

I'm at a very weird spot right now... I've been in transition since early 2001, and am fluctuating between pre-op and non-op. I identify as lesbian and have a girlfriend of 8 months who identifies as bisexual; needless to say, she wasn't aware that I had been in transition until after a week of 'getting to know each other' before we started dating. Most people who know me would say that I'm quite feminine, and I would be inclined to agree with them inasmuch about how I'm perceived. I've always been open-minded enough to disregard the binary gender system for other people, but am starting to look at transgender issues (i.e. not specifically TS and not specifically 'male' or 'female') and am starting to wonder what the frag is going on in my head.

It started off simple enough, with me starting to get all cutesy a few months ago... I think it was an attempt to counter my partner's androgynous attitude and try to figure out a butch/femme thing in our relationship. But at the moment, I am really starting to loathe the cute-siness form of expression. I don't want to be male-bodied again (I like having a female body, regardless of whatever is 'down there'), but I don't want to follow the typical 'feminine woman' script that society has been cramming down my throat for the last 5 years either.

So... my brain itches from thinking about all of this... I'm not entirely sure where all of this is going... I want to deviate from the stereotypes, but I have no idea of what it is I'm shooting for.

Thoughts/similarities/comments?

Thanx for letting me vent,
Katie

[Alison Michelle]

Hi Katie, welcome to the forum I think you will find the girls here very helpful.

It sounds to me that you are just trying to find the real you. I wonder who I realy am sometimes also.

I have different attitudes at different times, I feel girly girl, just a guy, androgynous, feminin when ever. This seems to be normal mood swings and I don't put to much into it. Going through your girly girl phase sounds like you exploring the extremes of your personality.

The quick answer is always desirable, but in my case it is going to take a while. Don't fret, enjoy the experiance. When you finaly find the answers you are looking for, you will know your self far more than most people will ever know of them selfs.

[KatieKaboodle]

Well, that's one thing that I think we have over people who don't have all of this drek to deal with; we know ourselves better than they know themselves.

I think you're right about the extremes; one of my GG LiveJournal friends also said the same thing. I hope now at least I can start to have some sort of balance internally instead of trying to do the 'as feminine as possible' thing.

Katie

[Deborah757]

Sometimes I think we are driven to extremes either in being super macho to prove one thing or super feminine to prove another. Most people, who do not have the gender dillema, fit neither extreme.

As the Oracle at Delphi said (ΓΝΩΘΙ ΣΑΥΤΟΝ) KNOW THYSELF.

Deborah

[Ms. Donna]

Sometimes I think we are driven to extremes either in being super macho to prove one thing or super feminine to prove another.

This is understandable though. After a lifetime of being fed the stereotypes to which we are supposed to aspire, we simply do not (in this case) know how to be girls. We didn't have the benefit of being raised as girls - to see and interact with the world as girls are taught to do. As boys wanting/trying to be girls, it is - by and large - guesswork and conjecture. We have to discover what works (and when) and what doesn't. The 'real' girls got the jump on us and we're playing catch-up.

Most people, who do not have the gender dillema, fit neither extreme.

We get there... eventually. It just takes us a bit longer.

Love & Stuff,
Donna

One seldom commits only one rash act. In the first rash act one
always does too much. For just that reason one usually commits
a second - and then one does too little... -- Nietzsche --

[KatieKaboodle]

The way I figure it is that we are who we are. We go to either extreme in order to gain some sense of self out of it, at least I do. Being raised as a boy doesn't really make me male, per se. I'll agree that we play catch-up (going EITHER way, I'll also add), but eventually we have to look at how we feel about ourselves and see what labels - or variations of labels - we feel right with.

I feel alright calling myself a woman and a lesbian, but I'm still coming to grips with the term 'transgender' as it applies to me. I know that I can feel the way that I want, but life situations have a way of affecting people - trans- or not - and shaping their lives.

So... yeah...

Katie

[Deborah757]

The way I figure it is that we are who we are. We go to either extreme in order to gain some sense of self out of it, at least I do. Being raised as a boy doesn't really make me male, per se. I'll agree that we play catch-up (going EITHER way, I'll also add), but eventually we have to look at how we feel about ourselves and see what labels - or variations of labels - we feel right with.

I feel alright calling myself a woman and a lesbian, but I'm still coming to grips with the term 'transgender' as it applies to me. I know that I can feel the way that I want, but life situations have a way of affecting people - trans- or not - and shaping their lives.

So... yeah...

Katie

Maybe you have your answer. If you have not already, I would recommend this recent thread http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ad.php?t=20148 on the transsexual forum. Many of these issues as they relate to life circumstance were discussed. Maybe that will help.

Deborah

[Julie]

Hi Katie and welcome!

That your GF didn't know you were TG until after a week says you must be a pretty convincing female. If that's the case you have already made great strides to get there unless your genetics are such that you were already almost there. Still, there's mannerisms that GGs pick up on and you must have mastered that too. So all in all it seems your self expression is predominately female and that suggests so is your personality.

I understand your confusion but it stems from outward pressures and not from within. Society is basically uneducated about anything past male and female. For some, that's all they can handle. For others, it's all they want to know and for the rest they have just never cared or even known there is anything else. But there is a huge grey area in between and that's where practically everyone fits, most just don't know it. The number of males and females that perfectly fit our societies definitions of each is miniscule. That means you are pretty normal.

All any of us need it so be at peace with who we are and not try to be what others want us to be. It's a waste of time because we're never going to really be that. And we all know it.

[KatieKaboodle]

Eh. Yeah, I generally pass for non-trans. I started transition in early 2001 at 26, so starting off young helped, methinks. And, from what others have told me, even when I was male-bodied, I was still pretty feminine. (Why wasn't I told about that I wonder!)

I do feel fortunate that I've been able to do so, and yet certain parts of the 'girlishness' seem forced, at least internally. So I'm kinda looking to lessen my concentration on transition, per se, and more on other things that I like: I do music/sing/songwrite, I'm a big PS2-RPG geek, and am still looking to get more involved in the local queer communities.

Part of the impetus for me is all the attention that women in general get, especially from the menfolk. I really don't like it or the way I get treated like I'm just a sex object, and it bothers me immensely.

I need to get new clothes anyways, since my hips now look like 2 badly-parked VW's, so I'm looking at maybe doing a slight bit of 'butching-it-up' with my wardrobe.

*sigh* I am so not awake yet.
Katie

[Natalie x]

I spent the first 60 years of my life pretending to be a man, and wondering why I found it so hard to get it right. Then, over the last year, I've been learning to unlearn all the little acts I used to put on and simply be the woman I guess I always knew I was. It certainly explains why the previous 60 years were such a challenge!

I love being a girl. Not a giggly, simpering, silly girl, but a girl with ideas and self-confidence, who cares about folks and the world, but can still spend an hour or two getting ready to go out and talk for hours on the phone.

Katie, don't worry about what to call yourself, or the reasons you are as you are, or the expectations others may have, just enjoy being yourself.

[KatieKaboodle]

Awww, thank you hun! All of your kind words help me out a lot. I'm still in the midst of trying to find out more specifically what type of person I am, but I can already tell it's going to be interesting.

Katie

[Helana]

Katie

The only way to escape thinking about the binary system and the gender stereotypes is to get away from our society, ie go off and live in a beach hut in Thailand

So long as you stay here you will always have a daily dose of stereotype requirements shoved down your throat and you cannot help but be affected by this. Society's current is too strong to swim against, all you will do is tire yourself out trying to fight it and will end up nowhere. The result is that you will give up at some point and will let yourself be carried downstream with everybody else to accept your fate.

You need to identify a liberated environment where you can be yourself and move there. Staying in the ratrace and being your true self are not really compatible long term options.

[Maria D]

Staying in the ratrace and being your true self are not really compatible long term options.

Then we are all already dead.

http://plif.andkon.com/archive/wc236.gif

'Course, I'll take the beach hut if you're offering

[KatieKaboodle]

LOL... it's good to know there are more geeky people like me in the cosmos.

Actually, I found a really good genderqueer LiveJournal group and am reading posts from there... which is interesting in a whole 'nother light because of the whole transition thing.

Katie

[Gilded Graper]

Since age 5, I didn't like playing with boys and I loved playing with girls.
All my close friends are girls or soft effeminate gays.
Because of this I can say most TS are not 100% female, compared to my childhood friends.

Seems no TS can fully get rid of the male and female roles that has been imprinted on us.
Our understanding of the opposit sex is heavily colored by roles on TV we loved and grew up with.
Our M & F role imprinting goes so far back to our babyhood, we can't recall it.
Thus when we post-op, we become a composite of what the world say is a female and the women we loved on TV shows we watched as a 5 year old.

I've kept in touch with my childhood playmates for over 60 years and they are all DIFFERENT woman. So what's a real woman? What is a TS suppose to become?

In the end, no matter what we think of our gender role, we will only be ourself and I hope your body can deliver what you want in life.

BTW if you want lesbians, keep your male part.