On my mind ... are we trying too hard?

[ChelseaAnn]

Ok, so this is going to be a bit long, so bear with me. I'm also going to post this in the MTF section as well, as it is relevant.
My wife and I are still together right now, and are at middle ground. I can be Chelsea full time with a few exceptions, as long as I don't permanently transition. However, she says she may be open to the idea later. So, here's a timeline on how we got where we are. (Its relevant to where I'm going with this post)
Mid June 13: I saw a transition video and finally admitted to myself I was transgender. I also realized I would not be able to fulfill my needs in private forever, as we had a 2 month old at the time.
late June : I started therapy without telling anyone but my best friend and a friend who is MTF transsexual.
July 1st or so: I told my mom I was in therapy, and the next day I told her why, because she as so upset and worried about what was going on.
July 3rd: ruined my wife's birthday by coming out to her (yeah, I was stupid) we went to my next therapy session and reached middle ground (basically my wife being more attentive to my submissive side, and telling me that guys get manicures and stuff like that too)
mid July : I realized this middle ground wouldn't work for me, and explained to my wife that I needed to transition. She left with our son for her parents house in the NJ (we live in PA).
day after previous entry : my wife returned, knowing I had a therapy session, determined to save our relationship. Once again, we reach middle ground, slightly geared towards crossdressing.
a week later : I go to another session, and admit to my therapist that I absolutely need to transition, and I tell my wife later that day. We make plans to divorce.
August : my wife decides to try living with me while I transition, and tells me to start my transition therapy. A week later she asks me to stop going so we can wait to have a second child first. I stop therapy.
For months after this, my wife is uncomfortable seeing me in female clothing. Wearing panties and a bra is the only thing she can handle.
February : my wife comes up with a middle ground that is our current situation, and asks if I can handle it. I tell her yes 2 days later.
The.next week : my anxiety skyrockets to the same levels as before I came out, with the thought of losing my ability to transition.

My wife has said that she.may be open to me transitioning at some point, which to me is dangling a carrot in front of the horse to keep it moving where you want it to go. And me, I have told her I don't think my need to transition will ever go away. In short, we have 2 desires that honestly have no middle ground, and we are pretty much kidding ourselves to think it will work. My wife told me very early on that our son the only reason we were still together, and I still feel that is true.
also, neither of us is financially capable of living on our own right now.
Finally, my job, which pays well, is not protected for trans people, so I would be waiting for legal protection anyway (from laws and such)

So, after having read that, do u think we're trying too hard? IMO, I think so. I feel stupid for jumping into the deal.my wife gave me, but.I hadn't been able to.dress in so long, I stupidly jumped on it, and promised I wouldn't change my mind (another stupid move) .

HELP

[Katey888]

Chelsea - I don't think you're stupid: I do think you're being hard on yourself as you're having to deal with an incredibly difficult emotional, personal and relationship issue.. (Do they get any bigger? I doubt it..)

I think others have already pointed out the difficulties of long term compromise - too much emotional stress; way too damaging for individuals.

But for short term - just think how many 'normal' marriages fail. How many other marriages and partnerships succeed because those involved are prepared to sacrifice and compromise for - in a lot of cases - their children? I would estimate a significant number.

You have some very weighty issues to balance - I think you've pointed out many of the reasons for staying together, and the fact that it makes eminent, short-term sense. Of course it's a compromise - life is full of them. And compromises can be tough - but they can also be the best approach for everyone involved - you just need to decide whether you're prepared to compromise, and commit to it.

But first stop beating yourself up! - there are plenty others around who'll do that for you in time...

Katey x

[ChelseaAnn]

thothing that bugs me is whenever I suggest seeing a therapist or marriage counselor, it always becomes "we don't need them, we'll figure it out together.

[PaulaQ]

Hon, your wife is bargaining. This is a stage of the grieving process. The problem is that you can't bargain with your gender - we are powerless over it. You can't stop your transition by wishing it would wait for a better time. It doesn't care, and yes a therapist would help you both.

[devida]

What a hard place to be in! Paula is quite correct. You can't bargain with your gender but you can think of the process as more of an adventure, an exploration that necessarily has to take place over time. If you end up completely transitioning mtf with hormones and surgery this does and should take at least a couple of years. Your body needs to get used to becoming biologically female been if your mind tells you you already are. This is also enough time to discover if your relationship with your wife will survive your transition. As you've probably seen from this board this isn't that common. But it does happen. Do yourself and your wife a big favor, though, and don't have a second child. It sounds like your wife is hoping that she can save the marriage by having another child. This does sometimes work because people are pretty decent as a whole and don't want to bring the misery and hardship of a break up to their children. But it's really not fair to anyone in the relationship and it's damaging to all parties since the marriage is just in a holding pattern until the kids grow up or one or the other partner can't stand it anymore. Transitioning is a very dramatic event. When we are involved in dramatic event we tend to want a fast resolution. This actually isn't the best way to deal with any kind of drama. Try hard to take it day to day and when your mind starts planning out the future remember that the future is not now, that we rarely get our predictions right and that a fantasy of what's going to happen is just that, a fantasy. Today you have the wish to transition. Let that be your today. Everything really is step by step. Making promises contingent on future events is a kind of a silly game and very anxiety producing. Limit yourself to what's real now, and that is that you are discovering your real gender, you don't know what that means, but you're in the process of finding out. Stick to the process, not the outcome, no matter what pressures you or your wife bring to bear to force the issue. There's enough drama today without importing it from an imagined future.

[Beverley Sims]

Your wife loves you and wants to be with you, have you thought about therapy distorting your thought process.
You want another child, think about all this very carefully without getting too emotional.

[stefan37]

If crossdressing relieves your GD to a point it is manageable, then compromise can and would be in order. If however you need to transition, then there can be no compromise unless it allows you the freedom to pursue transition. You should never under any circumstances entertain another child with your present wife, unless you know for certain she can stay with you. The odds of marriages surviving when one partner transitions is very rare. It takes a very special person to handle the changes that occur when one partner transitions to a different gender. You should tread carefully and fully explore your need to transition. The last thing you need is another child to support for 18+ years in addition to the one you have.

Tough questions to ask and decisions to be made. But only you can answer them.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Chelsea;

I'm very much pro-family. In every family situation, there is more then one person involved in such decisions. While it is understandable that you feel this overwhelming need to transition, you are making decisions BEFORE seeking competent professional help, you are dropping decisions on your wife and family BEFORE discussing the decision with them. There is a lot of I,I,I , me,me,me in your post and not anything about your wife and family and THEIR future. A young wife,a young family, the pressure of work. Sure you feel this overwhelming need, but what about your families needs. If you really want to preserve your family, then you will need to slow the train before it derails.

[ChelseaAnn]

I see all of your points. I am taking it day by day, or trying to at least. I can't transition now anyway, since there are no laws protecting my job. But, I do agree it wouldn't be wise to have another child until we figured out where our relationship is going. We have already planned on reevaluating our relationship come January, as that is when we plan on trying again.
Of course, there are other problems in our marriage besides me. I guess we'll just see what happens

[Caden Lane]

it really does feel like her announcing she wanted another baby was both a stalling tactic, and perhaps a way of anchoring you in place. Not a good thing for you to create a situation where you would owe even more child support in a post divorce situation. I feel that your timeline was very truncated, you seemed to allow the pink fog to haze over your judgement, because you rushed into situations where you told your wife and mom after very short amounts of time. I think perhaps you were hoping to create a catalyst where you'd be able to do as you please without impunity, without taking into account the consequences and fallout of what you were doing. I'm sure at SOME point your therapist would want you to tell your Loved ones, but not so soon, not so fast. And perhaps with a greater amount of discretion.

[ChelseaAnn]

Perhaps. Sadly, it's a little late for that option. I had planned on waiting until September to tell my wife, but when I told my mom, I was afraid she and my dad would act differently around me, and I didn't feel like I had a choice.

[MatildaJ.]

I explained to my wife that I needed to transition...my anxiety skyrockets to the same levels as before I came out, [when I think] of losing my ability to transition.

I can't transition now anyway, since there are no laws protecting my job.

My advice, if you want a GG perspective. You two are stuck being co-parents forever, so it's wise to try to stay on good terms. (Also wise not to have another kid together.) You're financially dependent on living together right now, which also means it's wise to try to stay on good terms. And in any case, you are putting off your transition until the legal situation with your job changes.

I would try to build a friendly roommate situation with your wife. Remind her that you are a woman. You're sorry for the disruption this creates for her, but it's unavoidable, just as if you had been diagnosed with a serious disease or been in a serious accident. When you're not at work, you will dress as a woman. If she's not attracted to women, then your romantic/sexual relationship is over. But that doesn't mean you can't be friendly roommates and co-parents.

Encourage her to date other people, and remind her that you will also be dating other people. Assuming that part of your relationship is over, you'll each need to start taking care of those needs with other people. And keep going to therapy -- you will still have issues as long as you're putting off your transition. I think it will be wiser for you to understand that your professional choices are behind your delayed transition. Your co-parent is not the roadblock.

[ChelseaAnn]

Yes, it does seem like that's where this is all going to go. Honestly, I know why she is so stubborn about staying. She doesn't want to be a single mom. I have tried telling her that this happens even under normal marriages, but, again, she's stubborn.

IDK, would it be dumb just to continue things the way they are, maybe it'll make getting to the roommate relationship easier? And, as she said, it is possible she'll be comfortable with me transitioning. My main thing is that she gave me a chance to do it my way (preparing for transition). I feel like I owe her that much to try it this way, even if I don't think it will work.

[MatildaJ.]

Nobody else has to know the details of your sex life. If you live together and look like married people the world will treat you & her that way. What do you mean when you say "would it be dumb just to continue things the way they are"?

[ChelseaAnn]

I guess to me I want things to be ok, but I feel like we're both not being completely truthful to one another. We both have a "maybe" statement on our side. She tells me that "Maybe I'll be comfortable with you transitioning in the future," when in reality (and I'm guessing, yes) I don't think she ever will. Me, I say that I want to transition, but maybe this will be enough (which I also doubt). To me, it just sounds dumb.
But, I guess since I don't have the legal system on my side yet, it'd be better to stay together, see where things go, build up our funds, and decide what we're doing BEFORE we start trying for another child.
I just wish she'd open her eyes and see that a therapist or marriage counselor would be of some help.... We both have bachelors degrees in psychology for goodness sake...

[Caden Lane]

I think trying for a child in ANY circumstance here is a bad idea. Even if she says she can accept your transition, she may change her mind later on. She has already demonstrated that she is not comfortable with it. My trust would be shot to pieces if you were me. So if she does change her mind again...and it seems written in the stars, then you will be saddled with even more child support. I think she is using the possibility of a second child as an anchor to bargain, control and manipulate you into doing what she wants you to decide. It's ironic, women cite a lack of trust if we hide CDing from them despite their poor reactions, yet never take into account the things they say and do that alter our trust of them.

A therapist AND marriage counselor versed in these matters would be a much better choice here, and taking your lead from them would be a much safer bet, than making it up as you go along or asking us for advice. Perhaps if she has a bachelors degree in psychology, then she sees the writing on the wall, and just doesn't want to hear the truth from a therapist.

[ChelseaAnn]

Well, I agree with that. I don't want to be shelling out twice as much child support ... The really difficult thing is, at least with my experience, I'm always the bad guy . Her parents say they understand what I'm going through, but don't give any slack because I married her and had a kid, all while knowing about these issues. However, a defense I use that doesn't work was that I had acknowledged theses issues before, years ago (though not to the same extent) and my wife swept them under the rug (we were dating then) . I realize I lied, but I get no slack.
I'm just at a loss. I know the reality of what is probably going to happen. In the meantime, I figure I should enjoy what's going on, keep communicating to her that my need to transition still exists, and let her decide what to do. But yes, I think not having another child is a good idea.

[PaulaQ]

The really difficult thing is, at least with my experience, I'm always the bad guy . Her parents say they understand what I'm going through, but don't give any slack because I married her and had a kid, all while knowing about these issues.

Honey,

I can pretty much guarantee you that her parents do NOT understand what you are going through. Not one iota. I have a very accepting family. Waaaay more accepting than your wife's parents. They don't understand what I'm going through either, really.

I understand always being painted as the bad guy. My wife views me as responsible for literally everything that goes wrong in her life. She has alternated between being somewhat understanding that I didn't choose to be transgender, and being furious at me for wrecking her life.

There is simply no reconciling these types of feelings - they are either going to support you in doing what you have to do, or they are not. Sounds like, at least right now, the answer is "or not."

If you had cancer and had to seek medical treatment - would you expect them to tell you "be responsible - you have a child now!" if that meant the same thing as "don't get treatment?" Of course not. But if you are transgender - sure, they say that as if it's a lifestyle choice.

You don't need to offer a defense. You have an undiagnosed childhood condition. You very probably need medical treatment for it, and unfortunately, the side-effects of the treatment are socially unacceptable to many in this world - most especially spouses and their parents. We are held to an inhumanly harsh standard by this world.

[kimdl93]

I guess to me I want things to be ok, but I feel like we're both not being completely truthful to one another. We both have a "maybe" statement on our side. She tells me that "Maybe I'll be comfortable with you transitioning in the future," when in reality (and I'm guessing, yes) I don't think she ever will. Me, I say that I want to transition, but maybe this will be enough (which I also doubt). ..

What's wrong with 'maybe'? It seems an entirely understandable and in this case appropriate answer. Your wife, in particular has moved her point of acceptance from divorce to a high level of accommodation, even to the point of wanting a second child, in the event that you transition later.

Maybe you should be a bit more patient, and maybe you should let her have some time to continue her adjustment, and maybe you shouldn't assume the worst may happen some day down the road, and maybe you shouldn't be in such a darned hurry to jump to conclusions.

[ChelseaAnn]

kimdl, while I understand where you're coming from, and I am giving it some time before giving up, I also need to watch out for myself. I very much doubt if we had a second child, and I transitioned, and we divorced, my wife would tell me "no, I wanted the baby, and I knew what you were going to do, don't worry about child support. "

[kimdl93]

Honestly, I. Think you're wife is trying to save the marriage, making one accommodation after another. In contrast your behavior has been entirely self centered. And you speak of a second child as a liability.

You have dismissed her motives and discounted the possibility of her accepting your transition. Maybe time will prove you correct. However, if you continue to question her motives and willingness to adjust, you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy.

[ChelseaAnn]

Ok, I don't want to make an assumption, but it sounds like you're CD, and have never had feelings of being trans. I merely stated that I didn't want to have another child, not only for my own reasons, but I would hate for her to be a single mother of two, and also, I don't want to bring another child into this if I don't have to.

OOOOON another note, if you read the whole discussion, I have changed my stance a bit, and I personally think it has become more positive, but cautious. My "jumping to conclusions" has been a statement of how well I know my wife, and the sum of past experiences (aka her leaving for her parents house after I came out to her, her trying to control the situation early on, her getting us to the mid-point). You, however, do not know my wife at all, nor do you know me very well. All you know is what I have typed. I would say you probably know Obama, or your local cashier better than you know me.

So please, if you want to judge, keep it to yourself. I have only asked for advice, not to be spat at for "jumping to divorce." If I wanted to do that, it'd be done already. Thank you very much!

[CarlaWestin]

It's about children. The only thing that we really have to do to our best ability is raise our children so our genetic code propels into the future. In my honest opinion, the decision at the fork in the road to become a parent starts us down a road that is not anywhere near the sexual reassignment highway, until our mentoring/nurturing time with our children is satisfied. Truly mature and responsible adults know that life is a continuous process of decisions, sacrifice and doing the right thing even when it hurts. You need to learn the art of compromise. Otherwise, break off the rearview mirrors and enjoy your personal offroad adventure.

[ChelseaAnn]

Yes, but with our relationship, only one of us can compromise. If I compromise, I don't get to transition. If she compromises, she has to live with a woman for the rest of her life (which I'm not sure she wants to. Don't know for sure, but that's what I think she feels like).

[MatildaJ.]

Neither of you is going to get everything you want. But if you work at it, you can both get what you need.

You will transition. That's what you need. And if you work at keeping things civil with her, you'll stay in your child's life and have a relationship with that child, which I assume you want. Plus your expenses will be minimized if the two of you can live together with your child.

What your wife/co-parent needs is for you to be a functional co-parent for her. Do what you need to do in order to be the best human you can be (that is, go as far along in transition as you have to), so that you can stop focusing so much on yourself and learn to be there for your kid. Even if you need to transition fully and you lose your job, you and your co-parent will be able to figure out which of you can find the best job and which of you should focus on caring for the child. That's what co-parents do, when they get along with each other.