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  1. #1
    Aspiring Member natalie_cheryl's Avatar
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    Greatest writting assingment ever!!!

    For someone like me anyways. The assignment why can women wear pants and it is socially acceptable and a man can not wear a dress. Going to title the paper ''Gender Uniforms'' so if anyone knows of any credible sources that I can site as to why its ok for women to crossdress and not for men

  2. #2
    ADMINISTRATOR Sandra's Avatar
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    Look a woman wearing pants is not a crossdresser unless they are FtM......geez I get so fed up of hearing this. If your'e going to write this then get the bloody facts right first!
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  3. #3
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Thanks Sandra!

    But since I have the habit of using ten times as many words as Sandra to say the same thing, this is my answer:

    My favorite topic!

    "Cross"-dressing means to wear clothing that is significantly different than what is culturally acceptable for one's own sex. For example, a man who wears dresses in a culture where this is not usual or acceptable.

    So … if all women wear pants and it is culturally acceptable, then they do not crossdress.

    Sorry, I don't have anything to cite. It's just common sense … but I do understand that crossdressers don't look at it the same way.


    If you're wondering why pants have become popular for women during the 20th century, have a look at this article, although it is far from complete:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_w...rld_after_1900

    And this:

    http://www.historyandwomen.com/2012/...and-pants.html


    Bottom line: pants became popular for women (and therefore no longer "cross"-anything) because the bulk of the female population wanted to wear them. Dresses for men will have the same fate when the bulk of the male population want to wear them.

    Why did most women want to wear pants? Because they were more practical for activities that women wanted to engage in, such as work and sports. Why will most men not want to wear dresses? Because they are not practical for activities that men want to engage in, such as work or sports.
    Reine

  4. #4
    Administrator Di's Avatar
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    Get it straight!!!!

    Sandra and Reine explained it...thanks ladies.

    But women wearing womans pants IS NOT CROSSDRESSING.

    How about writing a paper on
    How to get men to accept wearing what they want like Reine said Dresses for men will have the same fate when the bulk of the male population want to wear them.

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  5. #5
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    Is this for a college class? Are you auditing a class at a local college? If this is a legitimate paper and not just a rehash of previous threads on this forum, have at it. There may be some worthwhile points to make, but, if the slant is all about men wanting to emulate women by wearing wig, makeup, forms, feminine undergarments and dresses, well, that's old stuff. If you're going to zero in on examples of women not being permitted to dress in male attire for male activities, maybe the paper is not going to be a half baked idea. It is rather mind boggling that the women who played in the war time and post war All American Girls Professional Baseball League had to wear skirts at risk of getting raspberries sliding into base. There are plenty of on line reports of women getting arrested for wearing pants in years gone by. Do your own research rather than looking for sources.

  6. #6
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    Others just provided you with the angle for your paper: that women wearing pants is NOT crossdressing. Dispel the myth.
    Also, here is one credible source you're looking for: this forum

  7. #7
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    Natalie,
    This is a bit of a hackneyed thread for here.
    The arguments have been had and done.
    To write for those less in the know it may make an interesting diatribe.

    I believe the internet is a great source, so I would start there.
    I think to a lot of us here it is the same as self analysis on why we are like we are.
    We all have some unique traits, why are some gay etc.

    I associate with and have a couple of gay friends.
    Who cares as long as they are not patting me on the bum.
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

  8. #8
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Natalie - don't forget the multicultural aspect here also...

    Define what a dress is today and in structure (a seamed robe with opening for head and arms, say...) it is no different to a kaftan or a dishdash - both items of male attire in Africa and the Middle East respectively. Look around the world and there are plenty of guys apparently in dresses, as well as the jocks in skirts - also sarongs in Indonesia, kilts in the Philippines, and historically, the Romans in togas!! (and what have the Romans ever done for us...)

    It's just a fashion and culture thing...

    Have some fun writing it...!

    Katey x
    "Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
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  9. #9
    Aspiring Member natalie_cheryl's Avatar
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    Ok so I didn't mean to get everyones panties in a twist, I know that a woman simply wearing a pair of trousers does not make her a crossdresser so I apologizes for my minor slip (so I hope we can all get off our crosses for a little bit) yes this is for a college class that I am taking, I have already pooled some good material to site for examples of why it is not socially acceptable for a man to wear a skirt or dress while totally fine for women to wear pants. When for a very long time it was TOTALLY not tolerated. So I am doing my own work just thought that maybe just maybe there might be a person or two that could have read an article that I might have missed in the MILLIONS out there on the internet....

  10. #10
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    I personally appreciate that you are writing a paper on it. Why some get into a twit over this is beyond me. There are about a bazillion people out there who don't have a clue as to why. Any education will help the way I see it Hon.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

  11. #11
    Aspiring Member kendra_gurl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natalie_cheryl View Post
    The assignment why can women wear pants and it is socially acceptable and a man can not wear a dress.
    seems pretty clear the assignment is already stating the obvious (says nothing about them crossdressing) and its your job to explain it in ways the links Reine gave you does.

  12. #12
    Member Georgia_Maine's Avatar
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    jeered and cursed and even had stones thrown at him. Being famous and popular with the Roman people, he didn't understand why this was happening. When he arrived in Rome the general of the emperor's Praetorian Guard, a life-long friend, quickly pulled him aside before the emperor or senators saw him. Why? Not only was he riding a horse, something no Patrician would do in Rome - but even worse - he was wearing pants! Something a self-respecting Roman never wore! Winters are cold along the Rhine. Anyway he was quickly dressed in suitable attire: a short, above the knee, tunic and breastplate. Moral of the story: when in Rome don't wear pants but a short dress ... er, tunic. ;-)
    Georgia (Gigi) Maine

  13. #13
    Senior Member Barbra P's Avatar
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    In many parts of the world it is culturally acceptable for a man to wear a sarong – basically a skirt – and they are not cross dressing. In much of the world it is culturally acceptable for women to wear trousers.

    Capris, pants ending between the knee and the ankle, are a popular summer style for women. But in the fifties Capris, often referred to as clam-diggers – were a popular summer men’s garment. The Kingston Trio wore Clam-diggers on one of their album covers; Harry Bellefonte also helped to make this style popular. Try finding Capris in any Men’s Department.
    Babs

  14. #14
    Lady By Choice Leslie Langford's Avatar
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    Interesting quote and POV, Georgia, but now you've piqued my interest. Which Gaul, Helvetian, Visigoth or other Germanic Barbarian in particular is being referenced here?... Arminius, before he turned on the Romans and soundly defeated three of their legions in a German forest?

    Must be that he was p*ssed off (in part) because they made him wear a dress.

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    At one time many years ago women wearing pants was unacceptable.

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    Oh, the nerve of them women! Those crossdressers! How dare they brake 1940's-1950's dress codes!

    I think you need to go take a look back at history and find out when and why women started wearing pants. In the US it was common for women to wear pants for work related wear as far back as one can remember. Around 1970-1971 pants became a fashion statement that has not gone out of style since. Are women crossdressing? No, they are stylin' and profilin' and looking damn good doing it.

  17. #17
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    Maybe it's easier to understand the issue if we take the women's pants out of the argument. That leaves "why is it socially unacceptable for men to wear dresses?"

    Just curious - do you turn in your paper or present it to the class? If the latter, will you wear a dress?

  18. #18
    Silver Member JenniferR771's Avatar
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    One thing, Natalie--double check the meaning of the word "site"; I am sure you meant to use the word "cite." Unless you are in high school, your teacher will not appreciate the misuse of the word. It does sound like an interesting topic, plenty of room for lots of expert opinion and evidence for one idea or the other.
    Its a lot of extra sewing and fabric is better than leather--I suspect--pants were not even invented until a few thousand years ago.

  19. #19
    Live it! Love it! BeckyAnderson's Avatar
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    This article may shed a little light on the subject.

    http://weeklysilence.wordpress.com/2...s-to-trousers/

    The argument "woman wearing pants is not crossdressing" may be valid to a point today. But how many of you have seen woman wearing a suit and tie? Call it fashion, call it whatever you want but the point is that a white shirt, suit and tie has always been a guy's domain. Designing a suit to fit woman and adding a tie as an accessory doesn't change that fact. How many of you have seen woman wearing work boots? Perhaps designed to fit a woman's foot but nonetheless a guys domain. How many of you have seen woman wearing men's t-shirts or flannel shirts? C'mon folks perhaps you should begin looking through the "women wearing pants" thing and start looking at ways to change what is acceptable clothing for either sex. There are countless men in this and other forums and on this planet who wear woman's clothes but are buried so deep in the closet (because of the fear of the social stigma attached to dressing in woman's clothes) that they can't even see the light of day. The biggest difference between men wearing woman's clothes and woman wearing men's clothes is that woman are not afraid to venture across a line. They ventured across the gender line (for whatever the reason) when woman began wearing pants knowing that it was not acceptable and that clothing trend continues today. Some call the intrusion into mens clothing.....fashion. The point that I'm trying to make here is that so long as we remain couped up in our tiny little closets nothing will change. The wrong kind of thinking here is to "let someone else do it or I can't or won't do it." For change to happen on any level, with any issue it takes a unified and an ongoing effort. So long as we sit back and complain about how unfair it is we will never move towards making it socially acceptable for men to wear women's clothing.
    Last edited by BeckyAnderson; 03-06-2014 at 02:10 PM.

  20. #20
    Aspiring Member kendra_gurl's Avatar
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    Nice article Becky, very informative.

    Nicole I often wonder if there became a large movement in fashion of skirts and or dressed designed for men if we as CD's would wear them?

    Even if it was fashionable, us knowing they were designed for men would that satisfy our desire to look and dress feminine?

  21. #21
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    But Kendra..... if skirts and dresses were made for men, would you be dressing feminine? You would be dressing male wouldn't you?

  22. #22
    Aspiring Member kendra_gurl's Avatar
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    Jorja that's my point. would that satisfy our desire of trying to feel feminine or would we still HAVE to wear panties, bra, wigs, makeup, jewelry and heels?

    I just thing there is a lot more to crossdressing than just the clothing and that alone discounts the women can wear pants argument.

    There might be some out there but I have never seen a male with a real physical need to wear a bra but we who crossdress sure love wearing them

  23. #23
    Silver Member Annaliese's Avatar
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    When woman first started to wear pants it was consider scandal less, but as more and more woman started to wear pant it became more acceptable. And at first they were wearing men pants, then some figure there was a market there and design pants for woman with softer material. I believe they did not start to design jeans for woman til the 70's. Good luck on your assingment.

  24. #24
    Member devida's Avatar
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    Others have answered this question, natalie_cheryl, but I think what you're asking for is more structural. You can certainly take an historical, sociological or even literary approach to this question. Shakespeare's comedies are full of plot twists that depend on cross dressing and gender misidentification, which are all the more delightful when you know that all the women's roles in Shakespeare's time were played by men. But I think you'll get a better essay if you look at the work of gender theorists (wiki gender theory) who have been so influential that they have deeply affected modern understanding of literature, society, and history. After all the question isn't that interesting if all you're doing is answering why women can wear pants and men can't wear dresses, which is inaccurate as other posters have pointed out. But if you use the question to talk about the way gender is presented you'll get an essay your teacher will love and you'll enjoy researching and writing. Narrow your paper's focus to why people use clothing to denote gender in public and you won't be quite so swamped with information. And use a spell checker so you don't get marked down for writing site when you mean cite!

  25. #25
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    No, Kendra, I used "wear dresses" as another way of saying "completely transforming to appear as feminine as possible". I have no desire to wear a man-dress. I want the whole thing.

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