How far do you need to go?

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

It has been awhile since my last soapbox rant so bear with this gal. This is not meant to insult any side of the debate and if I inadvertently do so, please accept my humble apologies. If it is really sticking in your craw, then please PM me as I prefer not to do "verbal gladiatorial combat" for all to see . . . thanks.

I see a lot of posts about gals who get out and about. Which is a good thing on several levels. (1) the person has had a personal growth moment in this thing we do and wants to share her excitement which bolsters her confidence; (2) the world is exposed to another TG person and the more we are seen the more people will acclimate their opinions of TG persons and just people; (3) the more people acclimate their opinions then the acceptance can follow (albeit most likely at a snail's pace for us). So all good . . . right?

Yes and no. Going out in public is a personal choice and should never be taken lightly. Most of the experiences provided are good with a smattering of sunshine, rainbows and unicorns. However, we all know the reality of the world . . . it can be a hostile place regardless of whether you are TG or not. If you are going to go out you must be prepared to deal with rude looks, rude comments, giggles, laughs and WTF stares. Specifically you need a tough skin. If you are not prepared for that, then you should think long and hard before exiting to the light.

Now I am not saying it is all bad. On the contrary, I have been out plenty of times where nobody bats an eye or even looks in my direction. But the bad experiences do happen and if you are not prepared to deal with it, it can cause more damage to your self-esteem than good. I suppose some can say "That which does not destroy you, makes you stronger . . . so go forth to the world". Unfortunately that only works so long as you are prepared to be destroyed and grow stronger and, not everyone is.

This in no way means . . . don't go out. By all means if you are ready (and you will know when you are) then do so. However don't feel pressured by other's experiences to do so. Each of those gals have made an active decision which fits into their lives to go out amongst the vanilla world. It is not for everyone.

I know . . . "Sum up Isha coffee is getting cold so point please"

My point is, we all make a decision to go out in public or not. Some can because they have a support network, others can't for various reasons. Some are prepared to deal with the rude looks, snickers and giggles others are not. This does not make one group more TG than the other. Not everyone needs to be or wants to be a flag bearer for the cause. When I go out I attempt to blend so as not to attract unwanted attention. I am sure people know and if someone asks I will respond in kind and educate when I can. However I am not going to hand out "Hi my name is Isha and I am TG" cards in the mall. I read in another post that "perhaps we are afraid to commit to one gender" . . . quite possible. However why does it have to be black and white (boy / girl) to make a point. Everyone contributes in some way to the "cause" some are front line in your face TG assault troops , while others are behind the scenes support gals providing advice and support to those of us who do go out. It takes all kinds to win the battle.

I just hope we can all remember that some gals just want to do their thing and enjoy life whether it is out and about or deep in a closet. Not everyone needs to come out of the closet to lead the charge and we should all respect that. In the end how far you need to go will depend on how much you are willing to accept to get that far. For each of us, it is different and only the individual can make that decision for herself.

Hugs

Isha

[~Joanne~]

I agree with your posts 100%. While there is a lot of good posts here to help with makeup and such, talk about the things that girls can't normally talk about with others, and just a wide arrange of support all around, I also feel there is a lot of pressure also. Yes, we'd all like to walk past that door whenever we want to but is it sensible to do so? Only each girl here will know if they can do so or not.

While I understand that the more of us out there helps the cause, there is no need to pressure anyone constantly to get out there because they did. Everyone is on a different level when it comes to their dressing. Just as you had to grow into accepting that this is who you are, you also have to grow into what your comfortable with doing and not doing.

Great post Isha

How far do you need to go?

As of now, I can shop by myself and take my time doing so which is a lot better than "rack fly bys" and I thank my SO for that hurdle becoming jumped but as for going out? I have, and will again, but it's all time and place. At some point I hope to conquer a lot more fears about doing such and then I will be out there when and if I want to be but for now.....baby steps.

[stephNE]

OK, I'll get up on the soap box, but only for a minute.
I think than the most important thing is that we are all individuals, what suits one may not suit the others. There's nothing wrong with going out, but nothing wrong with not going out either - to each her own. I think my age has a lot to do with it to, as I have gotten older, I don't care as much about what others see, say, think, etc. I guess I've been lucky because I've never had a bad confrontation. I seen the snickers, heard the giggles and a few derogatory comments, but the good times greatly outweigh the few bad ones.

[natcrys]

Isha, thanks for your thoughts.. I could finish your post while drinking one cup of coffee.. so it's all good..

I agree with Stephanie that while there might be common element that brings us together here at this forum.. we are all individuals (cue wise ass joke: "no I'm not!"). Each with our own situations, desires, wishes, goals, restrictions, etc. So yeah, whether or not to go out in public and with what purpose.. that is and should be everyone's own choice.

So I have not been a member for that long and perhaps I missed those posts, but I have not seen examples/posts/threads where members who don't go out have been labeled in a negative way. And to be clear.. that is something I totally disapprove!

Now, here is where I might sound a bit blunt and I do hope I'm forgiven for that:

If posts from members sharing their "out & about" adventures makes some other members feel pressure to step out of the house as well.. then I'd postulate that the issue is not with the sharing members.

I indeed don't expect everyone to be on the front-lines and to show the world that CD/TG-ers exist and like to do their stuff like everyone else, but we do need as many of us as possible being out there visible if we ever want acceptance and recognition.

And I don't think it helps to guilt trip (perhaps unintentionally) those members who happily share their "out & about" adventures.. sometimes a bad experience, but mostly good.. because yes.. most of us live in places where we actually have the freedom to do what we want.

So, wrapping this up, I think:

• if your personal situation doesn't allow you to go out or you just don't have the desire to go out.. then that's it. Enjoy the stories or don't read them.
• if you're actually on the fence and these stories encourage you to take those steps.. cool! Just don't do anything rash, do think it through, do be prepared and try to have fun while being realistic!

This is, of course, IMHO and my .. I'll be wearing my flame-retardant suit now..

[KaceyR]

I can see several things with this and in this board's functions/effects
In one way all the report make outings seem more attractive and exciting, the more stories that are read about them here.
So I would say that with such a community/board... It has a chance of "stirring the pot" in the minds of some.
Without the info that's out there (internet, this board,etc) I can see some closet CDers just never get an ambition to try.
But the more successes there are, and are known about, then it stirs up the "I can do that too" factor.
This isn't bad really... But it is an added 'push' for some. And can be somewhat a "peer pressure" kind of thing.

Of course, the board and the peeps here are also what got me running head first deep into CD in general once I started in Sep-oct. But for me, Kacey is a bit of an overall 'new me' that I told myself I wasn't going to hold back on once I got started. With few negatives due to few family or friend issues... I knew I wanted to plow ahead and jump in fully, whether I sank or swum. But that's just me and my own personal situation. It's not applicable for all.

No matter what, I think most will recognize their own comfort levels (and external influence issues-family/friends) and would approach any new 'stage' of CD at their own pace.

As far as our views of others, the personal issues that have to be dealt with in order for them to CD at whatever level they do is a very unique situation for each person.
Because of this I think most everyone here recognizes each person's uniqueness and doesn't try to (and shouldn't) force a specific thing or path they must do. If help for something/some way is asked or pursued by someone, a lot will be around if needed and then advice given.
Likewise, it's also up to the asker to realize advice/info and experiences are also a result of this responder's unique situation and may not exactly apply.
I can respond about how I went out to an outing, but the asker may not be in a metro area, not have support groups near, or just have to deal with family and be limited when, what times, and what can be done once 'out'.

Now on the bad experiences... I've been lucky so far. Curious glances but no attacks,verbally or otherwise. But for me, at least, along with the 'new me' (and maybe age) it's a thing where if it happens, it happens. I've been able to feel an empowering "don't care what other thinks" attitude especially in Kacey mode. That's been the good thing that CDing has taught me.. And I've continued that into the male side as well. Living for myself, to enjoy myself, and to ignore others that would try to put me down. The logic (to me) is if a person tries to make a scene, to waste energy to belittle, or to ridicule me, or spread hate to me or anyone/any group in general (continuing it towards LBGT group support in general) then they're not worthy of my attention. They are not a being that can provide positive constructive energy so why waste time with them. So if I run into anything like this (which I'm sure I will in a stronger form sometime) I'll just smile, ignore and walk away.

In another form... Regarding that 'tough skin'... With our group/activity one could say we may not have tougher skin...we just layer more makeup on it that blocks the negativity out .

Overall a good post Isha and well written.

[kimdl93]

As much as anyone, I've celebrated the my own experiences and those of others here who have taken that step out the door. I have often encouraged those who express a desire but are tentative. That does not mean that I think every CDr should or must go out, and frankly some people shouldn't.

The decision is entirely personal. One has to assess their own desire or need. If neither exists...don't do it. You do not owe this to anyone. It's not a status symbol....you're value able as a person regardless of whether you stay home or go out.

Then comes the matter of assessing ones readiness on technical terms. If your going to the Rocky horror show, then poor make up skills, an ill fitting wig and outlandish outfits are perfect. It you want to be comfortable at Starbucks or the mall, you need to have a nice casual outfit, more subdued makeup and a reasonable quality wig that's suited to your sense of style, coloring and facial structure. I can assure you I was not totally confident or complete in any of these areas my first few times out and that first trip to MAC and the wig salon boosted my confidence immensely. The mall and Starbucks and many other venues came after those first tentative steps.

I don't see going out as a statement in itself. Most of the time I blend in well enough to simply be ignored. But when I do interact with people, and that's part of the fun of getting out for me, then I hope I am a good representative of our community and make the road a little easier for the person behind me.

[Adriana Moretti]

your thread is great Isha....and brings up a ton of great points...everyones different and goes out, or stays in for different reasons, no 2 of us are exactly alike. That is what makes us all unique. I am with you on the black & white too....there are MANY shades of grey here....and many shades of grey on alot of issues discussed here not just this one....I just wish more people realized that there are lots of shades of grey...mostly a pinkish grey...but still grey. How many times can you say grey?

[Shelly K]

Going out is a personal decision and we must be prepared for any negative reactions from others. This is often a harsh lesson we learn. I believe that many times we are out and about and believe that no one notices us because we blend so well but the reality is that we are noticed and that often no rude comments or looks are noticed because most folks are polite.
There are folks that will be rude and we must be prepared to handle those times.
We will never truly know if we are noticed and what people really think of out presentation in public be because most people will not be rude or comment to us directly. Most people are non-confrontational s we can continue to believe we look 100% passable if we choose. I for one no that is not the case for me.

[Angie G]

I'm out only to my wife if I only undredress when I'm out and about. I dress 100% girl in the house and I'm good with that.
Angie

[GretchenJ]

Another great post Isha!

The most important thing to take away from this discussion, and it can be extended to a lot of what I like to call the Top 10 issues that get repeated all the time is - this is not a race or a contest, as long we are not doing anything to hurt ourselves and the people we love, then all is ok with the world.

Do what feels comfortable to you, we are dealing with a lot on our plate to begin with, so if person a can be totally immersed with the outside world and person b just wants to wear one article of clothing under his entirely all male outfit, then that's great as well.

What this forum does for the most part, and which I try to do as well, is to support all in their endeavors and to provide personal experience if I have some.

When it comes to the types of people who read, post, and administer here - it's comprises of a wide range of menus, and if we don't support each of every one of them, then we are no better than the people who give the dirty looks, or the WTF moments.

Thanks again Isha for making me think on a Friday

[MsVal]

I have a similar feeling about the trip reports, and after some introspection came up with this explanation.

I believe that we have become conditioned to want Bigger, Better, or More of nearly everything. A bigger house, a better job, more friends, etc. When the man with a rowboat sees his friend in a new power boat he is conditioned to want it, even though his needs are met perfectly well with the boat he already has. And so it is with the many great reports of wonderful outings. We read them and something in our brain says "I want to do that too."

It's not a fault of the posters. Please don't stop. It's some kind of conditioned response in the reader's mind.

I suppose the solution is simply to be aware of the feeling, enjoy it, but understand it for what it is, a conditioned response.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Gillian Gigs]

The winds are a blowing and the tides are a changing. My childrens generation are much more accepting of differences than my generation was. If I was 20 again, in this generation, with what I know now, I would do many things differently. Would I want to go out dressed as and pose totally like a girl, no, but my boldness would allow for my attire to be a blend of both sexes. I am saying this based on what I know now, because as I have matured, I stopped caring what others think to a point. I like wearing lingerie, skirts and any kind of stockings/hose, so my apperance would look guy above the waist and girl below the waist, if you get what I am tryng to say. My character nature has always been somewhere in the middle of things, the macho warrior thing has never made sense to me, but neither has the whole ultra feminine thing either. I last thing that I would ever watch is two guys beating their brains out in a ring. I want the freedom to cry when I watch a romantic comedy, while wearing the clothes I want. I get this at home in a safe and comfortable surrounding, so why go out and risk anything! My wife gets it, accepts it, and as far as I am concerned that is the most important acceptance needed.

[Beverley Sims]

You have to develop a thick skin and do need to go out enough to satisfy your own desire.

I liken those who are not able or cannot go out for whatever reason to childless couples who are unable to procreate.

You will forever wonder "what is it like?"

Me I go out and enjoy myself at every opportunity.

[Lynn Marie]

Good thread Isha. This "sport", "hobby"," avocation", is not a competitive event. If it was, then those on hormones and having GRS would be the winners even if they disappear afterwards,

[Katey888]

Thanks again Isha - for a worthwhile and thoughtful read.

I am not out of my closet - and going out for me is my back garden only (fun as that was, it's not the Big Wide World! )

I love reading about yours and others experiences of going out - good or bad (hopefully the former) - so please don't stop...

But I have felt that pressure you speak of - I do see it as an internal pressure, however - the forum and posts here only act as a catalyst for what might be, and that's a different shade of pinky-grey for everyone.

I would love to go out. But I suspect that 'out' for me would be in a safe and social environment with other LGBT folk, rather than just down to the shops. I've thought on that one long and hard, and I'm not sure the hour plus preparation really warrants Katey making a trip for the Saturday newspaper and an extra pint of milk... maybe if I found myself low on chardonnay, though...

I'll be honest - I've stopped reading some posts in detail (as much as I can get away with to moderate, anyway) because I just don't need to hear, or align with some of the things that are being said. That's no different to the divisions and differences that exist throughout society or in any other specialist forum like this. Nobody is forcing me to read it and I am not obligated to take anything that anyone else says seriously. I'm sure there are some consummate yarn tellers here... but some very open, honest and considerate folk too.

Your message is important - it should be posted regularly to remind everyone that there are no rights or wrongs or absolutes in this weird thing we share...

Katey x

[Rachael Leigh]

Isha thanks so much for another very thought out point. I am one who would love to be out and go out more way more than just the one time that I have, well at least in full fem since I do blend clothes on occasion. My issue is very much the home life, my wife is very concerned about reputation and I am ok with that. So I really feel I must respect that even though it's extremely difficult. Today for instance I'm dressed and had to decide am I going to do the makeup thing or just enjoy the comfort I feel when dressed. See when I go all out fem it's hard to keep me from going into the world that way and so my time in makeup is limited. I do enjoy my photo shoots I share here but if I could I would be out more it's just not a possibility for me.
I'm going to admit I envy the girls who have such wonderful support of a spouse or GF and it's really hard to read those threads but I have what I have and it's not likely to change. So keep on going ladies your my CD heroes
Hugs Leigh

[Wildaboutheels]

They are just clothes to me. So, I have no dreams, goals or aspirations to "pass". I simply wear what I like and don't concern myself with which department it came from.

At age 8, I switched from Catholic school to public school.

And have been wearing whatever I want or is not illegal ever since.

[Jocelyn Quivers]

Great thread, I still remember the first and only time I went out in girl mode with my wife. Looking back at that day (and my pics which will never be posted!!), I looked horrible, had not mastered make up skills yet, pre-elctro/laser days, I was still very heavy, and of course wearing sun tan pantyhose with open toe sandals in the middle of August just painted a big CD target on me. At the time I was confident from having recently joined this forum and was feeling like I needed to go out in public. Even worse was that I thought I passed and was tempted to go into stores, all of which were wear I live. At the time that could and would have ruined my career (right to work/non union state). Finally I know I was not prepared for the ridicule, staring, laughing etc. I would have received which could have really had a negative effect on me causing me to quit go back into denial mode which would be very bad. It's been close to 7 years since that night, while I feel I've made great strides since then, I know I am still not ready yet to face the constant attention I would get. I know one day I will be ready to no longer care about that, and at that point I will be going out in girl mode, but it has to be when I am ready and on my terms.

[Jenniferathome]

I don't understand the cause and effect attributed here.

I go out occasionally. I am no flag barer. Every time I have gone out, the experience has been a good one. As I am no different than anyone else here, anyone can do this. That stated, I can not fathom how my going out would ever cause another to think that they must go out as well. There is no peer pressure. All one can gather from my experiences is that it CAN be done. Never that it MUST be done. Everyone makes their own decision.

[Lainie]

... When I go out I attempt to blend so as not to attract unwanted attention. I am sure people know ...

Blending in is my desire as well. With broad shoulders & handlebar mustache, I settle for not causing a scene. Not sure whether I have any impact on public understanding, but less than 1% of the people who see me have any noticeable reaction to the cross dressing. Once a boutique owner asked me if it's true that cross dressers are heterosexual. None of the other thousand or two who have seen me in public asked for information. Good thing, because I really couldn't offer an explanation that would make any sense.

[Amy07]

As I have said here, going out dressed and passing is dependent on where you live, and where you go when you dress. It's a danger for all, TG, TS, and CD. Be aware of where you go out and when, please.

[ophelia]

I am currently in a position to dress totally. Isn't Spring wonderful? By shaving in Mardch and April and some of May I have time to grow back to male acceptability (essential in my job) by June and shorts season. So I want to go hairless and get a makeover in a different city where I can relax without fear of discovery. I accept that people may see a male in a dress, maybe a short sleeveless print!, but the different locale removes the fear of them knowing just which male is in that pretty dress, fab hair and makeup.
It takes planning, with a careful itinerary, a menu of items I've taken along, nutritious snacks, a map of the restrooms where I'm going (isn't the internet wonderful?) and everything will work out. I had a wonderful experience in Montreal in November at Espace Beaute Glam and may repeat.
By dressing to the limit only occasionally I can really enjoy this, take some pics for my album and savour my inner femme

[NathalieX66]

To the moon, Alice!.....to the moon! (The Honeymooners).

If any of you folks ever saw me in real life, chances are I look like my avatar.

I made a very conscious decision to cross the line of gender, and knew the consequences of such an action. Four years out in the open, and out of the closet......no regrets! I am me.

[Kate Simmons]

Well spoken my friend. I would only add to always be yourself, regardless of how you decide to proceed.

[suchacutie]

I think the bottom line is that we each should and will strive to be the feminine beings we want/wish/need to be. Secondly, we will get there at our own pace, and I doubt that progress will be linear.

Be true to thine self!