...it is a flaw in the way medical services are provided. I once picked up a prescription for my daughter and they called me by her name... they just read what is printed on the label. To me it is really disturbing to have some much process that the people doing it become automatically stupid.
Chickie
The emotional investment that you have made into this incident is not worth a thing. I know this sounds harsh, but I have learned from hard experience. To me it never happens in this kind of a context. But let me say, that occasionally most notably in the court room colleagues refer to me as Mr. ***** or he. They would never address me this way in letters or in a conversation. They always correct themselves. They are always apologetic. And invariably the judges on the record after the hearing or trial will apologize to me for the inappropriateness. It happens rarely and quite frankly I don't give a shit anymore. But I always correct them no matter what the setting, and in this I agree with Michelle.Originally Posted by FurPus63
"Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)
So do you still correct people when you overhear a conversation about you between two other people? For instance, I stopped at the grocery store on my way home from work today. I was standing in the aisle deciding which type of bread I wanted to get. A woman with her daughter (about 12-13) walked by and the woman said to her daughter, "Be careful, you are in the lady's way." To which I heard the girl say back to her mother in a hushed tone, "Mom, that's a guy". Should I have interrupted and corrected the girl? I don't think so. In this case it might seriously upset the mom. But what if a similar conversation happened next to you between two adults? Then what?
If clothes make the man, I must not be one.
If men are from Mars and women are from Venus, I am definitely from Earth. Somewhere in the middle.
You may call me Dana BOriginally posted by Inna
If you find your self in pain, yet not able to stop the pursuit, rest assured, you are on the right path
I would like to think you did the right thing Cheyenne and would be willing to bet there was a conversation about this on the ride home between Mother and daughter.
Now as for me and the "sir" thing.
I live in Virginia and have even heard when cis-women get "sir'd". Now that is not to say it doesn't annoy the shit out of me when it happens to me. Usually when it happens to me it is someone that knew the male me. Because of this I can somewhat forgive them. What I can't do is bring myself to say something.
At my pharmacy, CVS btw, after I told them the name I was going to be using after I transitioned, which I did the first time I picked up my HRT patch and pills, they always addressed me as Rachel and my record in their puter was under both names. To them I was Randy where my insurance was involved but Rachel on my scripts when I picked them up.
My parents should have known something wasn't quite right when I kept putting Kens' head on Barbies' bodyRachel Smith May 2017
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][SIZE="3"]Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. Dan Stanford[/SIZE][/SIZE]
I used to feel like one in a million now with this forum I feel like one OF a million
“We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us.” ― Joseph Campbell
I don't know what to say..... I was all out shopping with a bunch of CD girls a couple months ago and a store clerk kept referring to us as "you guys" and I didn't like it.
If I were in your shoes my first response is, "yes you can help me you son of a bitch and what rock did you just crawl out from under?" In saying all of that it might not be the right thing to do. Simply walking up and saying that I am not a SIR anymore would be more appropriate.
Yes, being TS sucks, I can't imagine.
I like to default to assuming the situation is an error and escalate it from there. I once was buying a dress when I had a full beard and the cashier called me ma'am. I just grinned at the lady behind me and she busted out laughing. So being in a rush and not paying attention is the first level. The second level is those that have no experience with us. I certainly look to educate these people as education does help make it better for the next person and we may just gain a supporter. Then there are those being ignorant and they deserve the flamethrower turned up on high. Maybe I am blessed, but I haven't had to turn mine on yet. Don't get me wrong, all of these people are wrong. But the appropriate response is different in each case to me.
Launa, being that I am originally from the northeast US, Pennsylvania to be exact, I have often heard cis-women refer to each other as "you guys". Just as when you are in the company of another couple you would say "would you guys like to go to dinner tonight"? That saying doesn't bother me one iota perhaps because I grew up around it. I am only bothered by it when it is me alone and I get "sir'd or dude that gets under my skin and sticks in my craw for a while.
My parents should have known something wasn't quite right when I kept putting Kens' head on Barbies' body
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][SIZE="3"]Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. Dan Stanford[/SIZE][/SIZE]
I used to feel like one in a million now with this forum I feel like one OF a million
“We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us.” ― Joseph Campbell
Paulette, it happens sometimes. It happens to my wife a couple times a year. It happens to me if people give me a glance or hear my voice. When it does happen I simply say "pardon me" and they correct themselves, unless they were acting out of malice. But 9/10 people make an innocent (thought stupid) mistake.
I know back in college, working as a cashier I would misgender a customer by accident about once every two weeks. "SIR" would fall out of my mouth because 90% of the patrons were male.
When a ciswoman is called sir, it tends to be a momentary inconvenience. Where as a transwoman feels their legitimacy as a woman is being severely questioned. What's the difference? The ciswoman knows where she stands and has never questioned her gender, where we have toiled over our gender and will always hold a little insecurity in how the worlds sees us. In turn the ciswoman does not grant the word "sir" any power lets it go in a matter of minutes. While a transwoman may empower the word as a weapon of hate or spite that smashes the fragile female shell they developed. But if you don't give it the power, it rolls off like water off a ducks back.
Transpeople as a group are too sensitive, and too quick to anger myself included.
As a midwesterner, "you guys" is the same thing as "you folks" unless it is delivered with Malice, in which case the person is being a prick.
Being trans is what you make of it. Mine has not been easy, nor a tonne of fun. But all that B******T along the way made me who I am and makes me more mindful in how I go forward with my life.
you know how to reach me, FBook is the best way, as my phone has been on the fritz.
"Transpeople as a group are too sensitive, and too quick to anger myself included." Chloe, I don't like when you say this. All of my life I was given a hard time because people said I was too sensitive for a guy, now I am living my life as a woman and have to be told the same thing!? Sorry, but I have the right to feel anyway I need to feel and I can't stand it when people say, "oh you're just too sensitive." Besides, we t-girls have a lot to be sensitive about. We are going through way more emotional upheavel than any cisgender woman can possibly imagine. Being transsexual and suffering with gender dysphoria; causes us to suffer emotionally throughout life, so a lot of us if not all of us tend to be sensitive. I don't think this is a bad thing. I think it's perfectly fine.
Paulette
Remember Hanlon's Razor:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Yes, you can get angry at the woman or beat yourself up over it, but the fact is that it was a simple mistake. I've made the same mistake, misgendering another poster in this thread. The moment the word slipped from my lips I wished I could retrieve it and I still feel bad about the incident because I know that I caused her pain. She understands the nature of simple mistakes and has forgiven me.
Have you considered turning this into a learning experience for the clerk in question? Rather than blowing up at her or her supervisor, perhaps you could have said pleasantly "Excuse me, but when dealing with trangendered persons please understand that we prefer to be addressed as the gender we are presenting." That way, the next time you saw her she would have either learned from the experience and addressed you correctly or you would have much better cause for taking the issue to her supervisor.
We are all ambassadors. If we blow up at people who are inexperienced at dealing with TG individuals and who make simple mistakes we will deserve the reputation of being hostile and self-centered. This does not foster an attitude of acceptance. If we hold our tongues and put a bit of effort into educating the ignorant we will improve the situation for everyone.
Eryn
It's okay to be sensitive. I'm too sensitive too. A lot of us are sensitive by nature, it's natural for women on average to be way more sensitive than men. Being sensitive has a lot of great qualities too. It's okay to feel. Personally I'd rather feel way too much than not feel at all.
Some of you mentioned the phrase "you guys" being used towards cis-gendered women. I would have to agree that this happens all the time and is completely normal, especially if a group consists of both men and women. Even groups of entirely cis-gendered women might be sometimes called "you guys" - unfortunately it's called "male privilege". I have heard cis-gendered women complain that the AA Big Book is sexist since it always used "he" pronouns, even though it is speaking to both male and female alcoholics. Lots of books use the male pronouns when referring to people, sadly this is how the world is.
I agree getting "sir'ed" sucks, and I'm sorry to hear that it happened to you.
Last edited by Rianna Humble; 04-07-2014 at 05:45 PM. Reason: Quote trimmed
I've finally mastered the art of making salads. My favorite is a delicious Mediterranean salad.
This post is written in response to OP'S post to me OP's writings are Navy blue.
"Transpeople as a group are too sensitive, and too quick to anger myself included." Chloe, I don't like when you say this.
You don't have to like it, it is my opinion from interactions I have had within our local commuity over the last 5 years.
All of my life I was given a hard time because people said I was too sensitive for a guy, now I am living my life as a woman and have to be told the same thing!?
This may seem odd but this is my experience also. And yes, I am saying the same thing to you now, just like my cis girlfriends did to me. My first therapist said the same thing to me " these things will happen, some by accident some to be mean. If you don't fluff it off and move on then you are empowering them. you are allowing them to make you feel bad."
Sorry, but I have the right to feel anyway I need to feel and I can't stand it when people say, "oh you're just too sensitive."
You do have the right to feel that way, and you are 100% entitled to feel that way. I acknowledge your opinion. I see us as being "overly sensitive" where the slightest touch crumples us like tissue in the wind.
Besides, we t-girls have a lot to be sensitive about. We are going through way more emotional upheavel than any cisgender woman can possibly imagine. Being transsexual and suffering with gender dysphoria; causes us to suffer emotionally throughout life, so a lot of us if not all of us tend to be sensitive. I don't think this is a bad thing. I think it's perfectly fine.
Starting at the top, I can't stand the term tgirl, due to the use of it in the porn industry.
Being trans to be blunt is not a good time. However, I can't agree with your statement that we have more upheaval than "any" ciswoman, I will agree that we have more than "most" ciswomen. I know we don't all suffer the same, does my lack of severe dysphoria make me less trans than someone that can't look at their genitalia? Surely, it does not. I will say that there is generational forces at work here also. Which lays out a good chunk of our differences of opinion. As the the age of "coming out" keeps getting lower, so does the amount of emotional torment lessen.
This is because the "socialization" aspect of womanhood is developed earlier, allowing the person more peers of their identified gender. It is harder for us to build that peer group out of thin air the older we are.
And my last point, that I will extract from your quote ", so a lot of us if not all of us tend to be sensitive." And make it this:, so a lot of us if not all of us that we see, tend to be sensitive. Because the ones that are not overly sensitive are living in the world and no longer going to groups or visiting message boards. If we strictly pull the sample from those people than the first statement holds water. But if you include the outliers and about half of people of those living as stealth holes start to rapidly form.
Last edited by Chloe Renee; 04-06-2014 at 10:37 PM. Reason: clarifying my wibbity wobbley post format
Chloe, here's what I want to say about transgender women being oversensitive. We're women, and we're sensitive. Get used to it.
Chloe, you just admitted that you're oversensitive too. Get over it. Being oversensitive is just a normal part of being female, trans or cis.
Paulette, it's okay to be sensitive. The psychic used to tell me that I was oversensitive too. She told me that I was oversensitive for a guy, and that I was more oversensitive than her female clients, and that I am "half man, half woman" when we first met. Then she has the nerve to tell me that she sees me having "more male" reincarnations and that I have "more male energy" than female energy. And she doesn't even remember saying any of this to me - she doesn't remember telling me anything that I call her on saying. God, I am sensitive and I remember everything you tell me. And the psychic, just like a man, tells me that she doesn't remember saying that. Maybe the psychic is really a man trapped in a woman's body. She really is a he, and I really am a she.
Oh shit, I really am a woman.
I've finally mastered the art of making salads. My favorite is a delicious Mediterranean salad.
@ Michelle789, of course you are really a woman, we all are, well except the transmen here.
And I agree about the "Male Privilege" problem, mentioned in you're prior post. I spend more time at women's groups then I do at trans groups. At those groups, I do not feel "othered" by being trans. We are sisters working together as a united force trying to change the patriarchal system.
Truth be told, once I stopped putting the "Trans" before everything in my identity, I found I was able to get over most things.
It's one thing when people you know slips and calls you by your old name or the wrong pro-noun. They feel awful about it so I'm not going to make them feel worse. But when it's someone in customer service it's different. I was full time and just came from work so I was wearing nice clothes, had my hair and makeup all done nice. I stop by a clothing store to buy my daughter in-law a gift card for her birthday. While in line I saw some cute jewelry so I grabbed a couple of things. So I'm standing there holding some jewelry my purse and this twenty something young woman says sir can I help you. Then during the transaction she sir me two more times. When I got into the parking lot I was first pissed at my self for not asking for a manager or confronting her. Then I thought I don't know how confronting her in the middle of the store would help me. So I looked a the receipt and called the 800 number this was a national store. I talked to someone from costumer relations and told them who I was and that I was a transsexual woman and it did not matter to what degree I passed, but when someone is clearly presenting as a woman it's so rude to refer to them as sir. I told them there are lots of other stores that treat me with respect. I also told them how it made me feel and I didn't what it to happen to someone else. I told them this is a training opportunity and they agreed with me and were very apologetic. I felt much better after that I did something.
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom" Anais Nin.
Live, Laugh, and Love Yourself!
Janelle, of course they were apologetic. That's their job! They are apologetic to everyone who calls.
Now, what happened with the information you provided? Probably nothing, or perhaps a note on the monthly "complaint report" to the store manager that there was one complaint from a trangendered person.
However, let's assume that the "best case" scenario happened. The information was passed rapidly back to the store manager who immediately called the sales associate on the carpet for her insensitivity. I'll bet she shaped right up and won't misgender anyone again for as long as she works there. She'll also remember the incident and silently resent every transgendered person she meets. She'll complain to her friends and associates about the "tranny who got her into trouble." In short, you've won the battle but lost the war.
Now, let's back up and consider a simpler solution. If you don't like the way that she addresses you, then politely correct her with an explanation. Say "Pardon me, but transgendered people prefer to be addressed as the gender we are presenting and it is hurtful when you don't." By doing this you are putting a human face on the hurt she has caused and it is likely that she will understand and change her ways willingly. If she doesn't, then you can still take it upstairs.
Thank you Erin -- as a non-confrontational person this is how I would like to deal with this situation.
It seems that more and more "you guys" is becoming gender-neutral. Here is Florida my wife uses it all the time regardless of gender.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Proud member of the Lacey Leigh Fan Club
On the rare time when I get called sir, I just figure they are either trying to be pricks or do not understand english very well.
In either case, it bothers me for a moment but no more.
Also, is your name legally changed? That often does wonders for how we are gendered.
It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.
I had never thought about it until a kiosk attendant referred to Persephone and me as "you guys" while shopping. It was one of the first times I had gone out and it definitely scared me. Later on I realized that many women, particularly young women, use "you guys" to refer to groups of males or females. In fact, her use of the term indicated that she was comfortable with us and wasn't being defensively careful to avoid misgendering. I much prefer that to the salesperson who uses "ma'am" and "you ladies" too much!
Oh, BTW, it's "Eryn" not "Erin"
An excellent, and healthy attitude!
Misgendering has only happened a couple of times to me. It hurt each time, but then I remembered that people can only make me feel bad with my permission.
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
"you guys" is not a gendered term.
As far as hearing "sir", It is very easy to get caught up in the emotion of it. It's a bad experience no matter how you react.
Although I am certainly more likely to express and indulge my feelings now, I still try to corral them if they cause me any distress or get me too upset.
You said you were picking up a prescription for t-blockers. She would know that. She was trying to be a smart A-- . Very unprofessional . You could talk to management.
You look great. Keep being you and thanks for helping others.
Eryn here in the south ma'am is used to address a woman just as sir is used to address a man. You did make me do some research and this is what I found. It's roots lay in the word madam which is used as a polite way to address a woman, dictionary.com.
ma'am
also maam, 1660s, colloquial shortening of madam (q.v.). Formerly the ordinary respectful form of address to a married woman; also dictionary.com
The problem IMHO is to younger people it conjures up visions of an old lady and that is why so many younger females take offense to it. Not so here in the south. Here everyone is either ma'am or sir until they prove they don't deserve it then they are bitch and asshole, lol.
My parents should have known something wasn't quite right when I kept putting Kens' head on Barbies' body
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][SIZE="3"]Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. Dan Stanford[/SIZE][/SIZE]
I used to feel like one in a million now with this forum I feel like one OF a million
“We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us.” ― Joseph Campbell
Talk about being offended? This quite frankly offended me. What do you know about the suffering of a cisgender women? This comment ranks right up there with all the comments from cross dressers about being more feminine than women. You are a counselor by your own admission. Have a little tolerance and quit taking yourself so seriously. You are only hurting yourself. I think Eryn had a great suggestion. It is true that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Think about it.
Last edited by Rianna Humble; 04-08-2014 at 06:49 PM. Reason: fixed quote mechanism
I agree that calling out someone is a bad idea. Just correct them; if they persist, ask if they have an issue with their vision...
And I hate this "we're all ambassadors" thing. I represent myself, an individual.
Countess in exile
Keep Calm and Dance to Morrissey
Z and the Universe
I'm also on Twitter and Facebook
I'll start by saying I have a lot of respect for anyone who transitions. This has to be the hardest thing anyone can do in life. You stand to lose family and friends, lose your career and lose your history. The general public doesn't understand you and many will not like you.
That said, if you are being routinely addressed as "sir" by strangers, you have to look in the mirror. What is it about your appearance that is projecting "male"? Your hair? Your beard shadow (obviously)? Your figure? Strangers can't know if you are on hormones, they can't know what is between your legs or what is on your mind.
Look in the mirror or have trusted friends help with suggestions to look more feminine. You may need a new hairstyle or wig. You may need breast forms or implants. You may need hip and butt padding. You'll only beat yourself up complaining about how people see you if you don't work to make yourself look on the outside how you feel on the inside.
As for getting clerks fired for making a simple mistake - Would you want that happening to you? Would you want to lose your job for one simple error? Is being called "Ma'am" so important to you that you would have a person fired and their family on public assistance?
I think politely correcting the person and going on with life is the best way to handle this.
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