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Thread: Equality?

  1. #1
    Aspiring Member Christen's Avatar
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    Equality?

    I've been ruminating on this for a little while. In some posts I get an impression that some of us, may, have some interesting, perhaps even conservative attitudes. Being someone who loves the feminine and women enough to want to imitate them as best I can, I can't hold on to thoughts that as a guy I have attributes that makes me better in some way.
    I have to ask, do you accept that women are equal to men, just as able, just as capable, just as smart, deserve the same recognition, pay levels, opportunities, as guys or do you hang on to a notion that there are things men can do, are better at, are more suited to than women. Be honest now!

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  2. #2
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    Yes, women are equal to men, or rather that's how the world ought to be. Unfortunately this is far from the situation now.

  3. #3
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    Absolutely Hon and I have no hesitation with that answer.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

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    Worlds Prettiest Dad!!! Jocelyn Quivers's Avatar
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    Definitely, absolutely more pain tolerant/able to handle pain. The whole child birth thing!
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  5. #5
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    People on this board may love women or frilly things, but don't mistake that for a healthy 'pro-equality' attitude. You can love your wife and still chain her to the kitchen sink. The "I'm a better woman then women themselves" thing you'll see here is borderline misogynic and so is the whole concept of pretending to know what it is to be a woman because you (kinda) look like one.

    In my experience, this community is about as progressive or conservative as you might expect from a group of middle-aged American men. Wearing a nurse uniform does not make you Florence Nightingale.

  6. #6
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    Hi Christen

    What a brilliant post.

    Men and women are equal, always have been and always should be. However in society women are generally considered to be less equal to men, something that is wrong and things like pay and status should be equal.

    However, George Orwell famously wrote a book called Animal Farm, one that parodied communism. In it the pigs who ruled the farm considered that “Some animals are more equal to others.”

    Perhaps this is why the girls get to wear all the great clothes – skirts, dresses, soft band frilly things, long hair. More equality for CDers I say


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  7. #7
    Member Matia's Avatar
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    People always like to put things in the boxes, and these boxes then become rigid and dogmatic. Biologically and statistically there are surely things in which men are usually better than women and other way around,
    but it prooves nothing, people should be equal nevermind their gender and that I think sums it best. My problem with lot of crossdressing/crossdressers is , that the way they create their "female" image is very sexist,
    lot of time the fantasies and position of a woman they "create" is quite humiliating. It often comes as normal that if they are a woman, they are submissive, and do "girlie things". In many ways crossdressers can be much
    more sexist and create prejudice and then they will cry - i can't do this i can't do that, society would never understand it.

    Treat all people with respect, give them equal oportunities, and when you become woman, try to be as good and decent woman as possible so you're not embarassing anybody but the opposite that's what I would like to do

  8. #8
    Administrator Tamara Croft's Avatar
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    Matia, what a great reply and I have to agree with it
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  9. #9
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    Nailed it, Matia. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jocelyn Quivers View Post
    The whole child birth thing!
    This is the problem. Maybe I'm reading too much into what you just said, but when you're making an argument for gender equality, you shouldn't reduce women to babymakers and/or men to boxlifters. Equality isn't about men making more babies or women lifting more boxes, it's about overcoming these barriers. We humans do it all the time, when it's cold we wear a coat, when we need to go faster we drive a car and when we need to scream louder we use the internet. However, women still get the short end of the social and economic stick, even in places that consider themselves 'modern' and civilised like the USA and western Europe. Why is it so hard to treat women equally, even in situations where babymaking or boxlifting is not even relevant?

  10. #10
    Aspiring Member Christen's Avatar
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    Matia, brilliant words! Where have you been?

    Christen x
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  11. #11
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    Yes, as Matia so brilliantly put . . . all people (no gender required) are equal in all things. Gender is a concept (societal - sugar and spice / puppy dog tails and snails) which has constrained us as a species. The only true difference is biology and that in of itself does not negate the ability of one sex. My military admits women to all categories of service including combat. I have seen some extremely tough women in the field of battle . . . whereas I have seen some dismal failures of men in battle. So gender (societal) or sex (biological) was not a factor of success. It is innate human qualities which we all have . . . hence we are all equal.

    The best advice I ever got in my life was from my very first platoon sergeant . . . "Never treat anyone the way you would not want to be treated because that makes you a coward and a liar".

    Quote Originally Posted by Zylia View Post
    In my experience, this community is about as progressive or conservative as you might expect from a group of middle-aged American men. Wearing a nurse uniform does not make you Florence Nightingale.
    Zylia . . . very true . . . we are still a sample of the general population.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matia View Post
    Treat all people with respect, give them equal oportunities, and when you become woman, try to be as good and decent woman as possible so you're not embarassing anybody but the opposite that's what I would like to do
    Matia . . . well said.

    Hugs

    Isha

  12. #12
    Part time CD girl Lexi Moralas's Avatar
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    I think both have there strengths and weaknesses but over all I things are equal

  13. #13
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    Original question - Yes, I do believe that women and men are equal to men, just as able, just as capable, just as smart, deserve the same recognition, pay levels, opportunities. I live my life supporting those basic beliefs

    I also disagree with the judgment that most crossdressers create female images that are sexist and what they do is humiliating to women. That is unfairly judgmental and probably very inaccurate. Isn't all crossdressing, in fact, some effort to create a female image? Creating a feminine image does not also become sexist and humiliating.

    By what I read, crossdressers in general tend to be more sensitive to women's feelings and are more understanding and accepting. Maybe crossdressers do dress in ways that are sexy and pleasurable to themselves, but that is usually in private and perhaps to satisfy sexual feelings and provide escape. I do not see how that would diminish women or feminine equality.

    So what if you like to wear 6 inch heels and leather? Many women do.

  14. #14
    Silver Member noeleena's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Are we all equal,

    does that mean in every thing ,detail ,aptitude.how we see things how things effect us Emotionally we are not equal when it comes to us bearing our children in our bonding feeding .

    We are far from being equal im not equal to men how do you arrive at females are equal to men we are so different in our bodys to start with,

    Does it come down to strength I know some women are very strong i count my self strong they would walk over me im stronger than some men i can do many things many men cant and they of myself ,
    if we compare ourselfs with each other that wont work because we are all so different .

    Would it not be so much better to build each other up were i lack will some one else make up my lack in stead of casting me down because of what ever the issue is,
    can i build others up i do that any way try to.

    I was with the Fire Service NZFD. now i know that as we trained we had no women well one detail was how many could carry an other person down a ladder very few ,some 30 ft, or lift an other up.

    why, for some of us we dont have the body strength so would fail or fall , lets just accept not all of us female's can do every thing, Dont get me wrong i know many men could not do it ,

    So is there equality between men in the same way as women , i know theres not ,

    Im a bulder ran my own concern and had one female work for me Kaylyn our daughter, helping strip and paint two house's she could not (( man handle )) the heavy planks by her self and i would not have expected kaylyn to do so, case in point,

    or to use heavy machinery all day she did and does not have that strength shes now 35 and we did those two jobs over 5 years ago .

    i dont belive or accept we are equal to each other wether men to men or women to men and theres many more details that will show this from time begining,

    Heres another one you will allready know though, im female im not equal with most other women though some i will be, im one of those born with out my womb so im not a full working female in that regard, just like having a hysterectomy id have more incommen with,

    ANZAC Day coming up.

    Ill take it as referring to the more English, going back to the British up bringing say the 2nd ww yet even then we had the land girl's , women doing much of the work and for the ordinance factorys building plane's and so on of cause there was help for them in the heavy lifting, crane's and other gear,

    If we look at each persons makeup we will find many differences when we accept that then maybe we all can accept each other for who we / they are and get on with life with out a need to even look at equality being an issue,

    ...noeleena...

  15. #15
    Little Mrs. Snarky! Nadine Spirit's Avatar
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    Matia summed up my thoughts brilliantly. Thanks Matia.

  16. #16
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    This will not be politically correct, and it will not be what anyone really wants to hear. No, women and men are not equals. Yes, we deserve equal opportunities at whatever we desire to pursue in life. But we are most definitely not equals. There is plenty of documentation that will substantiate this. Men in general are: Vastly stronger, faster; we can also 'see' things in three dimensions much better than women which helps us pursue prey (food) or enemies. We excel at the maths and sciences more often than women do by a wide margin. Women have far better communicative skills, both verbal and non verbal. A woman quickly learns the different sounds that babies make and what they mean, and while some men can to it too, a lot of us can't. Women are far better at multitasking, while men are better and are able to focus on one thing better (think, talking with the other women, gathering food, watching the kids all at the same time, vs hunting down something and killing it quickly without being distracted by some piece of tasty fruit on a nearby tree). Currently, women live longer than men. No one knows exactly why, but as women embrace traditionally male lifestyles and behaviors the gap is closing, which suggests that it isn't necessarily our genetics that provide the lifespan gap. Men fall in love faster, and fall out of love slower than women. Men make decisions faster, and don't linger on mistakes. Perhaps this is because some of life's most important decisions for a woman have tremendous impact on her life; choose the wrong mate and wind up with a child and she's stuck with that decision until that kid is independent, while the male can disappear and start over with a new mate almost immediately. The old childbirth, the myth that women can withstand pain better than men? Another falsehood. Want proof? Take people's blood pressure, oh, on say, a thousand individuals. WAY more women will complain that the cuff hurts their arms, some even scream about the pain. Men very, very rarely ever say a word. Soldiers wounded on the battlefield endure tremendous pain just as women do when they're giving birth, and often, those soldiers continue to function normally and fight until they drop dead. Don't think that's impressive? Think again. The list goes on and on. And yes, you can look it all up. Because that's what I did. Yes, we're different. And that's a good thing. Our abilities usually compliment each other, not compete. And you know what? Races aren't all equal either. It really bothers me that so many want to believe that everyone's the same. We're not. We're different. And that's a good thing, too.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  17. #17
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    Lexi,

    When it comes to biological differences . . . yes men and women are different. We would be running around in a Pollyanna Narnia like state if we did not believe so. However difference does not equate to equality. Just because a man is generally more stronger (body strength wise) than a woman it does not mean they are not equals . . . just different aspects of the strength spectrum. I am not as strong as a lot of men my age but that does not make me any less equal. The contention about multi-tasking, communication, baby sounds, maths and sciences have never been founded in scientific research. It is more plausible that women are able to identify what different baby sounds mean better than men because historically they have been the care givers. I know plenty of stay at home dads who know exactly what their baby's cry means. It is just as plausible that men may appear more gifted at the sciences and maths because historically that is where men have studied (engineering, doctors, science). However that gap is fast narrowing with more and more women attending university and less men doing so. Multi-tasking is a function of the executive function of the frontal cortex not hunting skill . . . this is a cognitive function and we all (men and women) have the ability to do so. Some (both sexes) are just better at it than others.

    It is a misnomer to equate equality with differences IMHO. It was and in some still is used to equate different levels of pay for equal work (i.e., men are stronger so they do more work on average than women . . . so women should be paid less). Men are more gifted at math so let's not admit women to engineering programs because they won't understand.

    Hugs

    Isha

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    Fair point sometimes_miss and often made in these kind of discussions. The logical counterargument is that equality does not equal sameness. Equality of gender means equal rights, equal opportunities, equal treatment, etc. for any and all genders (assuming there are more than two). That might sound obvious, but the way people are treated based to their gender is still slanted. You can look that up as well. If you think that this inequality is justified because of biological differences we have to agree to disagree. That's a point of view bordering on social Darwinism that I can't share.
    Last edited by Zylia; 04-15-2014 at 08:58 AM.

  19. #19
    Gold Member bridget thronton's Avatar
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    I believe in equal opportunity for all - definitely no barriers based on gender

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    We are equal in most respects and women deserve to be so. As a father of two young women, my daughters deserve every opportunity to compete fairly with men. However, in some very limited areas, men are better suited, such as, physical labor. Testosterone has guaranteed that the average man will have an easier time doing heavy manual labor.
    Last edited by Jenniferathome; 04-15-2014 at 09:56 AM.

  21. #21
    Silver Member Annaliese's Avatar
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    I think woman are superior to men, in a lot of way, can do what men do and a lot more that men can't. Can dress as they wish with out question. The problem is it is a man world, and we make the rules, and we don't play fair.

  22. #22
    Senior Member samantha rogers's Avatar
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    I have seen strong women and weak men. I dont care for generalizations since they (generally...tee hee) do not allow for exceptions. Once again, I really dont like trying to define people with terms.
    Evolution , both organic and social, created differences between genders which aided in survival at that point in time. Now, changes in living conditions continue to cause further evolution, and different conditions gradually remove the need for most differences and distictions at least from a survival point of view. I think that is great. People should be free to be whomover they want to be, free of all social conventions, at least in my book.
    For me, I try to treat everyone the same, with love, kindness and respect. And I hope for the same in return.
    As far as differences...the only important one I can see is that males can pee standing up.

  23. #23
    Exploring NEPA now Cheryl T's Avatar
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    We are all equal.
    I treat everyone that way and expect the same no matter how I present.
    I don't wear women's clothes, I wear MY clothes !

  24. #24
    Member Matia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annaliese View Post
    I think woman are superior to men, in a lot of way, can do what men do and a lot more that men can't. Can dress as they wish with out question. The problem is it is a man world, and we make the rules, and we don't play fair.
    that is not true, people often say that tg girls are dressing more feminine than genetic girls, now guess why that is ? because if they dress up differently there are many questions asked and lot of gossip,
    lot of girls don't dare to dress in many things because they would be judged.. it is not different to us, we can all dress up as girls if we like to , but we don't want to be questioned the same way as genetic girls,
    if we all did, it would be easier for all of us, because it would become more regular.. but of course that would be judging, people always judge, we just need to ignore it

  25. #25
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    Also not going to be high up on the popular responses but why even bother asking a question such as the OP asked on a crossdressing site? The ratio of those who feel that women should be or are equal is going to be predictably higher than that of the general society. Equal in terms of rights and opportunity, definitely. Equal in their importance to human race? without a doubt. Are they equal to men in all aspects of simply being human beings, no. Men and women have distinct advantages and disadvantages, as Lexi pointed out. It is a bit of a generalization, but there is a truth to what Lexi stated. Those advantages and disadvantages equal out IMO. For that, I believe as I had just stated that men and women should be given equal opportunity and equal respect and consideration and have equal rights.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

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