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Thread: Do you support Transgender rights?

  1. #1
    Silver Member Rogina B's Avatar
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    Do you support Transgender rights?

    In a recent thread[as well as many in the past] forum members have let it known where they place themselves on the "T minded "spectrum.The responses are always interesting. As an advocate of forwarding Transgender rights,I have a question based on concern. Are you an advocate in some form yourself,or content to just let others be that way for you? Or by pretending it could never matter to you,inadvertently throw the T community under the bus? We signed up thousands of people this past weekend as "straight allies" to the LGBT community in support of furthering local protections of sexuality and gender identity. Not one of the many people that I approached ,discussed with,and got to pledge seemed concerned that it would "out" or harm them in their life. They just wanted to show their support for the community. So forum members,you may have now,or could have later,"a dog in the fight"...Have you chosen to support the advancement of Transgender rights since you are telling us here on the forum how important gender expression is for you? Replies are welcome from "all sides" of this forum!
    Last edited by Rogina B; 04-15-2014 at 10:03 PM.
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    I do support rights of Transgenders....This is why I find it important ( with all due respect to the TG spectrum) that it separates it's self from the cross dressing umbrella.. I say this not to sound mean, not to sound above any spectrum ( because that's far from the truth) ..I say it to be fair to people with gender identities and the dire need for their own rights to function freely and unharmed is a bias society ..
    I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.

  3. #3
    Member JenniferYager's Avatar
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    So what do you mean by rights?

    If you mean right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, legal counsel, not be cruelly or unusually punished, well yes, I support those rights for everyone.

    Are we talking marriage? That's not really a right, it's currently a privilege extended by the state, just like a drivers license is, so it can be administered as the government sees fit. Those rules can change, and since rights are supposed to not change, I wouldn't really call it a right.

    Are we talking the "right" to be who you are? Well, you can do that now, but like anything there are consequences. That's why so many of us stay in the closet. We look and see that the consequences outweigh our desire to be out in public, and we act accordingly. Sure, we can openly crossdress....and get fired, ridiculed, divorced, etc.

    The right to medical care? That is a service paid by the taxpayers and the person affected. If we say it's a right to get transgender care, then we are saying it's OK to trample on someone elses right to not have to pay for it. Again, if we are talking a paid service, I have a hard time calling it a right. Access to medical care could be considered a right, but the actual care itself is a service rendered for payment.

    I would say we need to define "right" first before we can really ask whether someone supports transgender rights. If I pick up a dictionary, I get a definition that looks like this:

    "a moral, ethical, or legal principle considered as an underlying cause of truth, justice, morality, or ethics."

    and if I go by that, then transgender rights would be moral, ethical and/or legal principles. But the principles someone would use for a transgender person should be the same for any person.

    So yes, I'm for transgender rights, but I think those rights are the same as for any human being. But if you change the definition, then perhaps I would disagree.

  4. #4
    Yeah Ok like whatever Tracii G's Avatar
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    Yes I support all under the GLBT umbrella CD/ TG/TS.Gay /Lesbian all of it and I do speak out when the subject comes up.
    When I go out everyday you can look at me and see what I am and thats part of it I suppose I don't hide my gender identity.
    I present as a mix 70% of the time and 100% female the other 30% of the time just depends on how I feel that day.
    Been to TG book signings enfemme and as a mix. Walked in gay marches etc in support as well.
    I try to let the public see no matter how I present that day that I am a normal and friendly courteous person.
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    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella View Post
    I do support rights of Transgenders....This is why I find it important ( with all due respect to the TG spectrum) that it separates it's self from the cross dressing umbrella.. I say this not to sound mean, not to sound above any spectrum ( because that's far from the truth) ..I say it to be fair to people with gender identities and the dire need for their own rights to function freely and unharmed is a bias society ..

    Really? So there is a limit or a line where you support rights and where you don't?

    First lets get definitions down here. The OP can correct me but TG means ANY person who resents as the opposite gender from their born genetic sex. So if you mean TSs you are not seeing the whole picture. And being elitist is as bad or worse than not supporting at all. The rights of all TGs should be the concern of all TGs. So exactly where would you say you support people. What is the line in the sand where you say..."Hey you aren't a "TG" (TS) you are a crossdresser...or pretender"?

    Many here do not support TG rights. They don't want to be associated with anyone in the LGBT community out of fear of being classified as L or G. But to make things worse the L&G community often leaves the T community out to dry. They have left us behind on many occasions the most recent being DADT where several politicians said they would not vote to have it removed if the T community was on the list...so guess what...you still can't be in the military. we will be dropped from ENDA too. Why? Because "we" as a whole community won't fight for our own rights. So many here find it easier to run and hide. The TSs don't have a choice but we don't have the numbers either. When we stand we are left by the rest of the T community in many cases. The OP has a very strong point here. How may T's no matter where you want to place yourself on the spectrum are willing to stand for the whole community? This isn't like being a color or ethnic group or even a sex. "We" can hide in plain sight and to hell with anyone else. As long as we can disappear, who cares about anyone else?

    I am so glad that when civil rights was the hot topic in the 60's, people who could have just stayed away didn't. I am ashamed anyone in our community would not stand for even the smallest minority.
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  6. #6
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    I am not out in my hometown, but that does not preclude me from standing up for those who are, whether G, L, B, or T. if I hear disrespect in a situation where I have influence I will not let it stand unchallenged.

    Standing up for the LGBT community does not out you. There are a lot of straight and non-TG people who are firmly in favor of tolerance for all. It isn't always a matter of whether you march or sign up for something, it's often simply challenging the unthinking person who makes flip anti-LGBT statements. When they find that spewing nonsense brings negative attention they will be less likely to spew nonsense.

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    Last edited by Eryn; 04-15-2014 at 11:27 PM.
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  7. #7
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    Your OP and questions sound like an indirect way of saying that those that do not carry the flag are not doing enough and should do a lot more. Is that what you are saying? I believe that each person does what they feel like they are capable of doing, or just want to do for the betterment of society, free speech, minority rights, for whatever the cause. Just like our LGBT spectrum, there are extremes at both ends and then the rest and maybe majority that are somewhere away for the edges, the largest part of the bell curve. In our group one extreme stays in the closet for their own reasons, which are more than adequate for me, while the other extreme maybe be the flag waving, proactive leaders and pushers for the rights of all of us.

    Can those who are not in the proactive front do more? Of course they can. Should they? Now that is another question not so easily answered by many. I believe that they should at least try to move beyond their current safe zone and move on until they feel that they may be putting themselves and those around them in a situation that puts them at risk. At that ;point that really need to decide how much further they want to go. That risk is just not about the potential for physical damage, but more in the area of negatively impacting their own lives and the lives of those around them as they now live them. I would never insist nor try to pressure into that situation. At the same time I would never criticize someone if they decided not to take the extra one step forward to be more openly supportive of our joint cause. That is their decision and I respect whatever they decide to do.

    In my own case I am not a flag waver and am more a member of that once well known silent majority. I do what I do when I want to do it. I do not feel bad about not marching in the Pride parade, nor about not sending donations to some organization supporting my and other's rights. I do, however, go out 1-2 times a week and interface with total strangers whenever the opportunity arises. I don't preach or deliberately teach and talk about our rights with those strangers. I may talk about what I and others do, and maybe discuss in a little more detail some of the why's, what's and how's. What I also do is, in my own opinion, represent myself and "us" very well to those who may have never met and maybe never even seen one of "us". I have fun with everyone and the reactions to what I do as seen and realized in that moment and sometimes at some other time way in the future only give me the most positive feedback that I could ever hope to receive. So, in my way I am promoting who and what we are to others on an almost weekly basis. I am also at the same time having a wonderful very self fulfilling time. I am having a lot of fun.

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    Yes Lorileah Really..
    If the O.P. truly is talking about T.G. rights yes.. I say this for many reasons one being a dresser such as myself with no gender issues would be a conflict for the grounds of freely expressing gender .. If you are T.G. you are not crossdressing per se. You are dressing the gender you are suppose to be representing ,Yes?

    Like I said I wasn't saying it to be mean ,not all people are mean..I was trying to be helpful and honest ( which I think some people should try more often here) ..Step outside the box every now and then ,try to look at things in different angles once in a while ..
    I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.

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    No, because I gain nothing from it. Gender identity has been ran into the ground to where it give people delsions. That conclusion has solved my gender identity issues. As for marriage, I don't generally support relationships, but the divorce rate is indeed something to laugh about. However, whatever makes you happy, as I would rather see the lgbt community get their way over the religious types.
    Last edited by Lygophilia; 04-17-2014 at 11:18 PM. Reason: Lazy response. Needed clarification.

  10. #10
    Swans have more fun! sandra-leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogina B View Post
    Are you an advocate in some form yourself,or content to just let others be that way for you?
    I'm a total freeloader. All I do is go out and live my life visibly trans, full time. I don't advocate for trans rights: I just normalize people's experiences by being myself: polite, pleasant, patient, human, humane, honest, engaged in obvious every-day activities. Perhaps a bit of a loner, but not a threat.

    I just live, and I leave behind people who start to think, "Trans? Who cares?". It isn't advocacy. Perhaps it isn't even important.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Amanda M's Avatar
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    I exactly like Eryn here. I am not "out" in our small community, however, if anyone comes away with ani LGTB remarks in my presence, I do take them up on it. I do also write a regular column for a online tranasgender and crossdressing support group
    If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

  12. #12
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    Yes, I support both rights for transgendered persons, as well as an end to discrimination against us:
    - we should be able to legally change our names and gender markers
    - we should be able to gain employment without discrimination. For many, coming out as trans is a death sentence for their careers.
    - we should be able to find and obtain medical care without discrimination from doctors who fear losing their cis patients
    - we deserve the right to conduct ourselves in normal public life without being treated like freaks and pariahs - often even by the media

    There are many rights we should have that we currently do not have. If you don't believe me, then why do you think our suicide attempt rate is 41%?! Choosing life over death should be the obvious choice - for so many of us, it's not.

    I'll say this to all of you who complain "women can wear men's clothes, why can't I wear women's clothes?" -

    You haven't earned the right to wear those clothes!

    Women fought long and hard to have those rights. They did this without the privilege you enjoy as men. Most of you haven't done anything to fight for your right to present as you choose without harassment. Instead you've ridden on the coattails of the tiny transsexual minority. But we are few in number, fractured as a community, and we're losing this fight.

    Help us. Fight for your rights.

  13. #13
    Shoe shopping shrew natcrys's Avatar
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    Quoted for emphasis

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    I'll say this to all of you who complain "women can wear men's clothes, why can't I wear women's clothes?" -

    You haven't earned the right to wear those clothes!

    .. Instead you've ridden on the coattails of the tiny transsexual minority.
    I was going to write something along the lines of this, but you wrote it down much better than I would have.

    Just wanted to add that there are also groups of crossdressers (at least in the Netherlands and Belgium) who do go out visibly and do make it known to the general public that we're there. Not everyone in those groups are a 100% out in their immediate surroundings, but wherever they are.. they do try to make a positive impact.. even in the face of ridicule and name-calling.
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  14. #14
    The 100th sheep GaleWarning's Avatar
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    I am doing a Street Pastors course here in London at the moment. In three of the four training sessions I have attended to date, someone has trashed the LGBT community. I have challenged each of them and on the last occasion, I openly stated, "I support the LGBT community" and engaged the person concerned in a (too brief) discussion on what Jesus has to say about us (ie. nothing!).

    I am presently engaged in preparing a Powerpoint presentation on this issue, which I hope to be allowed to share with my colleagues. After all, these are some of the characteristics we are supposed to have, in order become part of the organisation:
    1. Someone who is concerned for society and for the young
    2. Someone who is able and willing to build bridges
    3. Someone who can operate without prejudices

  15. #15
    Senior Member mikiSJ's Avatar
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    It is somewhat ironic that we are arguing over whether of not the "Ts" and "CDs" should be considered as one group, or not. We argue over whether we should be included in the LGBT definition, or not (I favor not). We argue over whether we deserve "special" rights, or not.

    Most of my girlfriends, save one, are somewhere in transition between male and female, as I am. I would label these girls as transgender. But then I am troubled with the label, any label. Why do we need to put everyone is a cubby hole. I know this is fantasy, but let's start treating everyone without using any labels. The are no "special" rights; everyone is the same as the next inasmuch as they want to live their lives without fear, with happyness. They want to be able to walk into a supermarket and have nobody care if you don't look exactly like the person in front of you in the checkout line, or not have to worry that when you run a stop sign that the traffic cop will treat you differently.

    I have not been a part of this community for years as many of you have. But, what I do know is that we need to segregate ourselves from the LBGT label, or we will never hope to be treated as I hope we can be. We need to stand on our own and be recognized not as someone needing "special" rights, but simply as somebody who is!
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  16. #16
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    Like Jennifer said, it depends on how one defines "rights". I have heard some of the more fringe elements of the trans community claim some pretty outrageous things as "rights", things I would never advocate. Of course, the same could be same of things some cisgender folks claim as "rights."

  17. #17
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    The bottom line is that I support rights for everyone, including TG folks. I have no problem making that known but don't ask me to be an activist, that's for eager beavers with something to prove. I have nothing to prove to anyone nor do I care what they think. I'm my own person and, other than being myself, have no agenda.
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  18. #18
    Member BOBBI G.'s Avatar
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    My therapist has told me, more than once, that I am an activist, as well as an advocate. I am a volunteer here at Compass, in Lake Worth, and also an active member of the transgender community at the VA here in WPB. For those unfamiliar, these are communities in S.E. Florida. We just had Pride Fest, where they used me as a greeter at the front gate. Two days of just having the best time I'me had in quite a while, doing what I like to do, talk about my being transgender. Lost my voice the second day. If they listen, I willl talk.

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  19. #19
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    I support everyone to be able to lead the lifestyle they please.
    I do look for common decency and appropriate conduct.

    I exclude aggressive behavior towards others and interfering with children.

    They are "not" lifestyles.
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  20. #20
    Bad Influence mechamoose's Avatar
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    Well, it points out the split between the LGBT and TS/CD communities.. which I will admit is a starker divide that I realized existed. I'm coming at this starting from the LGBT end of the world, and I'm learning a lot about those of you coming from the other end.

    I don't see a way to separate the two in the eyes of the public, so we are in this together.

    Oppression is oppression, discrimination is discrimination. Rights are rights.


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    Last edited by mechamoose; 04-16-2014 at 06:07 AM. Reason: Too long
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  21. #21
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    Hi Rogina,

    Great post and very thought provoking as I have never really given it much thought. My wife and I discussed this late last night after you posted and I took some time to think about it. Firstly do I consider myself TG? As you know I hate labels as they only serve to create groups and even groups have a tendency to spiral into elitism (you are not TG because you are only a part-time dresser . . . shame on you). However in this instance a label is required for political reasons because it is hard to say "hey give us people over here some rights" without defining who "us people" are. So I get the TG label in that respect.

    My wife asked me . . . "Do you consider yourself TG?" I thought about it all last night and by current label definition I would have to say "yes" as CDing (gender expression) falls under the TG label. Originally I was going to say "no" as I am not gender confused (I am male and always will be . . . I just like to express myself as female from time to time). So I am TG based on gender expression.

    Do I support TG rights. Yes in the same way t I support rights for all people no more no less. We (people) all have the right to express ourselves however we please so long as it does not hurt others or advocate hate of another group. So do Neo-Nazi skinheads have the right to march with swastika banners flying? In my book no because the symbol stands for hate. Does the LGBT community have the right to march in open pride? Yes because they are peacefully expressing their rights with no denigration to another group.

    Do I do enough to support TG rights? I think passively I do. I am out to several people at work (the military) and will not hide who I am if asked. Sure I am not running around handing out "Hi my name is Isha and I TG" cards at work, but I won't deny it if asked. I go out in public and one look will clearly inform others I am TG. I hold my head up, don't get into shouting matches over rude looks or giggles. If people ask legitimate questions, I will answer them. I exist proudly as a member of TG community when out and about. Do I march, write my member of parliament? Not yet. I have made contact with a local support group but in a way it is like high school with a mean girls table for the cool kids and this gal don't play that game.

    Hugs

    Isha

  22. #22
    Silver Member noeleena's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Okay what about us females and women ( natal ) look at what we have had to put up with for 1000's of years, look at those of our women who were the suffragette's of the 1860 to 1920's ,

    and what they stood up against just to have the ...right... to live, they were abused beaten thrown in the lockups staved and worse, for what, to be counted as normal females and women to own homes and property to have a life that did not include ... men .... as rulers, sexual abuse and take what little we had, degrade us use us as play things then when they had thier fill throw us out,

    so lets see if i have this right

    Men, you took our rights away, yet wonted our bodys then when we had given all you raped us killed us beat us then throw us out on the street , if we survived all that,

    And now after all what we went through you wont our clothes still wont sex, our private places or whats left of our sactuary;s so do we really have any left of what our women went through to just gain our lives back..and be us as normal female and women that we should be,

    i see the rights that are being discussed here are for LGBT,

    Those of us who are female women . natal are not included .

    OUR women went in to the fight for life for all women around the world and we still dont have what we ...NEED....its not a right of ...WONT....big difference.

    What really needs to be looked at is the right of ... LIFE... each of us has been given not just a segregated few, of some few 100,000 or 500,000 , this is not half of the worlds population .

    ...noeleena...

  23. #23
    Silver Member Rogina B's Avatar
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    [QUOTE




    So yes, I'm for transgender rights, but I think those rights are the same as for any human being. But if you change the definition, then perhaps I would disagree.[/QUOTE]
    Someone can be "in the closet" and yet still get behind the promotion of human rights,without "outing themselves" Sexual preference and gender identity protections are not "a given" and certainly not all encompassing in your state of Georgia. If a pro LGBT politician needed support via signatures or letters to the Governor,would you make the effort to do that? Or,do you take the stand that it will never affect you personally?
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  24. #24
    Senior Member Amanda M's Avatar
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    Paula Q - are you telling me that I don't have the right to wear womens clothes, or that somehow, I have to earn that right. If I have to earn that right, just how do I do it?
    If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

  25. #25
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    Hi Rogina, I'm all for live and let live.
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