Do you support Transgender rights?

[Rogina B]

In a recent thread[as well as many in the past] forum members have let it known where they place themselves on the "T minded "spectrum.The responses are always interesting. As an advocate of forwarding Transgender rights,I have a question based on concern. Are you an advocate in some form yourself,or content to just let others be that way for you? Or by pretending it could never matter to you,inadvertently throw the T community under the bus? We signed up thousands of people this past weekend as "straight allies" to the LGBT community in support of furthering local protections of sexuality and gender identity. Not one of the many people that I approached ,discussed with,and got to pledge seemed concerned that it would "out" or harm them in their life. They just wanted to show their support for the community. So forum members,you may have now,or could have later,"a dog in the fight"...Have you chosen to support the advancement of Transgender rights since you are telling us here on the forum how important gender expression is for you? Replies are welcome from "all sides" of this forum!

[Lucy_Bella]

I do support rights of Transgenders....This is why I find it important ( with all due respect to the TG spectrum) that it separates it's self from the cross dressing umbrella.. I say this not to sound mean, not to sound above any spectrum ( because that's far from the truth) ..I say it to be fair to people with gender identities and the dire need for their own rights to function freely and unharmed is a bias society ..

[Lorileah]

I do support rights of Transgenders....This is why I find it important ( with all due respect to the TG spectrum) that it separates it's self from the cross dressing umbrella.. I say this not to sound mean, not to sound above any spectrum ( because that's far from the truth) ..I say it to be fair to people with gender identities and the dire need for their own rights to function freely and unharmed is a bias society ..

Really? So there is a limit or a line where you support rights and where you don't?

First lets get definitions down here. The OP can correct me but TG means ANY person who resents as the opposite gender from their born genetic sex. So if you mean TSs you are not seeing the whole picture. And being elitist is as bad or worse than not supporting at all. The rights of all TGs should be the concern of all TGs. So exactly where would you say you support people. What is the line in the sand where you say..."Hey you aren't a "TG" (TS) you are a crossdresser...or pretender"?

Many here do not support TG rights. They don't want to be associated with anyone in the LGBT community out of fear of being classified as L or G. But to make things worse the L&G community often leaves the T community out to dry. They have left us behind on many occasions the most recent being DADT where several politicians said they would not vote to have it removed if the T community was on the list...so guess what...you still can't be in the military. we will be dropped from ENDA too. Why? Because "we" as a whole community won't fight for our own rights. So many here find it easier to run and hide. The TSs don't have a choice but we don't have the numbers either. When we stand we are left by the rest of the T community in many cases. The OP has a very strong point here. How may T's no matter where you want to place yourself on the spectrum are willing to stand for the whole community? This isn't like being a color or ethnic group or even a sex. "We" can hide in plain sight and to hell with anyone else. As long as we can disappear, who cares about anyone else?

I am so glad that when civil rights was the hot topic in the 60's, people who could have just stayed away didn't. I am ashamed anyone in our community would not stand for even the smallest minority.

[flatlander_48]

I do support rights of Transgenders....This is why I find it important ( with all due respect to the TG spectrum) that it separates it's self from the cross dressing umbrella.. I say this not to sound mean, not to sound above any spectrum ( because that's far from the truth) ..I say it to be fair to people with gender identities and the dire need for their own rights to function freely and unharmed is a bias society ..

I think it has to broader than that as there is strength in numbers. Also, there are laws in many places addressing the issues of having your identification documents not match your presentation. I think it is important that we all move forward together.

[Amanda M]

Interesting thread here. I have just been wondering what rights am I, as a cross dresser, missing out on. Nobody can tell me what to wear or when to wear it, where I may or may not go or do en femme or drab. I just have to be prepared to take the reponsibility for my actions - or am I missing something?

[Lorileah]

Interesting thread here. I have just been wondering what rights am I, as a cross dresser, missing out on.

The right to retain your job if you are "outed", the right to get a job and wear what you like (within the job's parameters). the right to use public facilities while you are dressed, the right to serve in the military and not have to hide, the right to go to any business that is covered under the Equal Rights amendment (yes they can refuse you service based on your appearance. They cannot based on race, ethnicity, color or gender). The right to not be harassed by law enforcement in certain jurisdictions. Just a few. Many "rights" are implied in most areas of the country but there are places where you would still be detained because of how you look or not have the benefit of law enforcement because of how you dress. There may be laws on the books specifically aimed at TGs (although usually not enforced). Here in Colorado a TG was denied health care. You may be required to divorce your spouse if you transition (but your question was on CD...so you may not care about that). You may be denied government documents (again a TS issue but we should be in the same boat rowing together). You could lose custody of your child.

[LoriFlores]

+1 for everything Lorileah just said!!

[FemPossible]

The right to retain your job if you are "outed", the right to get a job and wear what you like (within the job's parameters).

This is a tricky one. People are already being told not to wear their hair in a certain way so I'm not so sure anyone can win as far as a dress code is concerned.

the right to use public facilities while you are dressed

This just applies to cross-dressers, right?

the right to serve in the military and not have to hide

Can you add a little detail to this one?

[JenniferYager]

So what do you mean by rights?

If you mean right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, legal counsel, not be cruelly or unusually punished, well yes, I support those rights for everyone.

Are we talking marriage? That's not really a right, it's currently a privilege extended by the state, just like a drivers license is, so it can be administered as the government sees fit. Those rules can change, and since rights are supposed to not change, I wouldn't really call it a right.

Are we talking the "right" to be who you are? Well, you can do that now, but like anything there are consequences. That's why so many of us stay in the closet. We look and see that the consequences outweigh our desire to be out in public, and we act accordingly. Sure, we can openly crossdress....and get fired, ridiculed, divorced, etc.

The right to medical care? That is a service paid by the taxpayers and the person affected. If we say it's a right to get transgender care, then we are saying it's OK to trample on someone elses right to not have to pay for it. Again, if we are talking a paid service, I have a hard time calling it a right. Access to medical care could be considered a right, but the actual care itself is a service rendered for payment.

I would say we need to define "right" first before we can really ask whether someone supports transgender rights. If I pick up a dictionary, I get a definition that looks like this:

"a moral, ethical, or legal principle considered as an underlying cause of truth, justice, morality, or ethics."

and if I go by that, then transgender rights would be moral, ethical and/or legal principles. But the principles someone would use for a transgender person should be the same for any person.

So yes, I'm for transgender rights, but I think those rights are the same as for any human being. But if you change the definition, then perhaps I would disagree.

[Rogina B]

[QUOTE




So yes, I'm for transgender rights, but I think those rights are the same as for any human being. But if you change the definition, then perhaps I would disagree.[/QUOTE]
Someone can be "in the closet" and yet still get behind the promotion of human rights,without "outing themselves" Sexual preference and gender identity protections are not "a given" and certainly not all encompassing in your state of Georgia. If a pro LGBT politician needed support via signatures or letters to the Governor,would you make the effort to do that? Or,do you take the stand that it will never affect you personally?

[Amanda M]

Paula Q - are you telling me that I don't have the right to wear womens clothes, or that somehow, I have to earn that right. If I have to earn that right, just how do I do it?

[PaulaQ]

Paula Q - are you telling me that I don't have the right to wear womens clothes, or that somehow, I have to earn that right. If I have to earn that right, just how do I do it?

I can't speak to any person specifically, and I definitely can't speak to conditions in Spain, because I don't know how things are for us there. But here in the states, things can be rough. Discrimination in employment, housing, and in just about every other situation you can think of is common for transgender people. There are a TON of users on this site who sit quietly in the closet, terrified because they DON'T want to face the fallout of coming out as a CD:
- potential loss of spouse
- potential loss of friends / family
- potential loss of status in the community
- potential loss of employment
etc.

You get caught in a dress, you lose your "man card" - that's the fear.

And you know what? Many of those fears are based in reality. At the very least, CDs tend to be subject to ridicule.

If you are tired of living like this - having your harmless secret overshadow your life, then goddammit fight to make yourselves known. There are a LOT of CDs. Way more than transsexuals. You pay taxes, you vote, and if you raise enough hell, politicians will notice.

Women did it - their lot improved. They still have a ways to go, but progress is being made.
Minorities did it.
Handicapped people did it.
Gays and Lesbians are doing it now - gay marriage is all but a certainty now in the US, maybe one supreme court case away.

Transgender folks are still fighting over whether or not we get to use public restrooms! (The arguments used against us are essentially the same arguments used to justify segregated restrooms for minorities.)
I have friends with high paying careers who've lost them by coming out as trans.
I have friends who've had difficulty obtaining housing because they were trans.

Ask yourself - is this the life you want?

[Tina_gm]

Do I support the basic rights of TG individuals that everyone else has? of course. I guess this is politically correct week here on this site.... Not really to many on here who will think or feel otherwise. Am I going to be a dog in the fight? no, I am not.

I am not going to disrupt the life of my children, wife, workplace, family or friends due to TG rights fights. I am not going to out myself for this cause. Call me whatever you want, scared, chicken, betrayer, but I am not going to out myself for this. Especially when it comes to my kids, I will not disrupt their life and make them suffer just so I can be outspoken on TG issues. I will never throw anyone under the bus, but, I am not a dog in the fight.

[sanderlay]

I do personally support the rights of all persons, all human beings, and this of course includes Transgender persons of all labels, LGBT, what ever your sexually preference is, what ever your color, what ever your race, who ever you love is, etc...

Whenever we try or think we can exude any person their rights we go down a slippery slope that will harm all of us as a people, and most importantly ourselves.

[KaceyR]

I also support whenever I can. And I am hoping I can do more in the future.
However, I will state, that along with my newness to CDing (1/2 year), my knowledge on TG issues has been learned at the same time. Up until CDing times, my own thoughts or knowledge and experience has kind of been only in the GL range. (Never had thought on sexuality vs gender difference really).

1 coworker, L, now for many years. She was let go from work unfairly..but not due to 'L' that I can tell. More done in a tricky way based on medical issues... Indications are she was considered a medical liability and after leave for back surgery issues, when she came back she was told position was removed. He'll of a way to let someone go...she could've been applying ahead of time if they'd let her know ahead of time. Oh and that position? Another new one created and filled shortly after.
2: friend..'G' - ham radio ties even. Knew him as he finished high school -he'd come out near the end of that. Went to other state + college, later found someone and married (same sex). Doing well now.
3: friend 'G' - about same age really. Known for some time.. Only was told last year or 2.

Now while I understood some of their hardships, I'd not really broadcast support group-wise. Oh I supported the individuals, but not the cause. Thru this last year though, I've gotten a bit more vocal...especially with more stupid phobic laws being done which I've viewed as illogical hatred and bigotry. (Also I'm a romantic..hate to see these marriages toyed around with by legislators (and religion) that seem it have no concept of love...). So I've been a bit more vocal at times on my male Facebook side (hitting 300+ people thanks to gaming I've done-including a few evangelical type of people too.). But not yet out there in standing activistic support. I hope to a bit at the least this year during pride events.

So now I've continued that into the trans side of things. And just starting to contact the local groups and plan to hopefully be more involved. I'm a bit sad to see the disparity between LG to the other 'letters' at times. Were all wanting the same thing, equality and freedom to express and coexist and have same capabilities to live as everyone else without issue. Sex and gender meanings are still misunderstood by most unfortunately.

I was kind of amazed and glad that my workplace (Sears) did fully support a transitioner ~2-3 years back. She still works there. Might have seen her once (just a 'good morning' though due to shift timing and building area differences). Hope it's been well for her. So I guess there's still hope for some.

So summary: yup I try to support all the 'letters'.

[Terraforming]

I can't speak to any person specifically, and I definitely can't speak to conditions in Spain, because I don't know how things are for us there. But here in the states, things can be rough. Discrimination in employment, housing, and in just about every other situation you can think of is common for transgender people. There are a TON of users on this site who sit quietly in the closet, terrified because they DON'T want to face the fallout of coming out as a CD:
snip

This is a good point. I'm a transsexual, am out to most of my close friends and family, am setting up a freelance business where I can maintain my identity, and will be on hormones and laser very soon. I can forge my way and fight for my own rights, but that doesn't really do anything for crossdressers. We may all fall under the transgender umbrella, but we have very different issues. The man in a dress and fetishism stigmas are very strong, and they'll only go away when crossdressers start making themselves known. Instead of being a very weird minority in the population, they'll be numerous enough to where people won't care. At least they will if crossdressers are willing to fight for that. I see a lot of speculative "wouldn't it be great if" type of posts, and they sort of sum up the slow process. There are a good number of girls on this board who do go out and are known in the public, there just needs to be more of them to really make their case and their situation better.

A lot of us do not overlap, regardless of what we like to think. We should definitely help each other through shared experiences and advice, but a lot of our aims are not going to gel together. The spectrum is very large indeed. Every category needs representation, otherwise we'll have full rights for transsexuals but still be in the stone age when it comes to men exploring crossdressing.

[Millie.Graham]

I have been pondering this question all day.

Do I support TG rights as an activist. No. It is highly unlikely you will ever find me on a march or some other large public forum. Not because of fear of judgement or being outed, but because that is not what I seek in life. To me, in my experience, "activism" is a negative thing. I have only ever seen it used to force one groups opinion on another. With the activist's goal being the only acceptable form of tolerance is full acceptance of the activist agenda. To me acceptance and tolerance are not the same. To me acceptance is that I am in agreement with a subject. Tolerance is I am approve, I may disapprove, of a subject, but you are free to hold your view and I am free to hold my view and I am going to let you go about your business and I am going to go about mine.

I have long history of being a bit of an independent person. I don't seek people's acceptance on much of anything. I just go through life minding my own business and when it comes to cross dressing I am seeking the same thing, just to be tolerated and left alone to enjoy my own little world. tolerance...

Now in a private setting with people I know at a personal or professional level. Yes I support TG rights and more. I don't approve of people being belittled and or mocked regardless of whether regardless of their gender (id), race, ethnicity, height, weight, ... you get the picture. In that setting, I will usually attempt to challenge what they are doing.

I guess to sum all my rambling up.

I try to lead my life and treat others as I wish to be treated. I try not to judge others, less I be judged myself. I just enjoy watching life and all the many people that pass in and out of it. Some times it raises an eye brow, some times a smile. Each person has their own story on how they got to where they are. I didn't live it, and I am not the one to judge it.

PS: I used a lot of "you"s above, please know that isn't directed at anybody in particular, it just a "you" as in the world at large.

-Millie

[devida]

Or perhaps to make it even more specific than MM, should transgender people have the same rights as a white heterosexual adult male? So white heterosexual males do not have laws protecting them against discrimination which I know is a thorn in the side of the men's rights movement, but, um, white heterosexual males don't actually need anti discimination protections because they write the laws and, generally, have the power to oppress, should they choose to use it. The idea that a transgender person has this power is ludicrous. So, should transgender people have provisions in the law that safeguards them against discrimination? In, for example, the way that women, people of color, people with disabilities and members of religious minorities have these rights? I am not asking those of you who have already agreed with transgender people having these rights. I am asking the members of this board who think it is just a step too far to give cross dressers and other people generally considered to be under the transgender umbrella the rights that all these other groups have been given. And if you really believe that these rights should not be extended to cross dressers and other people generally thought to be transgender, can you please explain to me why you would want to carve out an exception for us?

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Rogina, I'm all for live and let live.

[5150 Girl]

Do you mean fiscally? Right now, I can't even support myself! However, I feel every time I step outside dressed, I try to be friendly, well/appropriately dressed, and willing to properly educate should the opportunity arise. So if by trying to present myself as a "brand ambassador" if you will,,,, one calls that support, then yes, I support the cause all the time.

[Jacqueline Winona]

Wow, what a thread! To answer the original question, in general, yes. Not with some of the laws that have been passed, though.I have a real hard time understanding the new CA law allowing transgender students to play sports for the gender they express. Not because I don't think true transgender (e.g., those who truly identify as the opposite gender) shouldn't be allowed to play as the gender they identify with), but because the definition is too open ended and I frankly worry that it will hurt young girls ability to play. Before you think it won't happen, it already has in a Southern CA high school, and I'm sorry but as an avid Title IX supporter I don't think this is right. If students are truly in the process of transforming, I can support it. But until then I do see inherent physical advantages that shouldn't exist. But, whether a transgender kid should be allowed to dress as they wish at a school? Sure I support that.
We've been through the TG definition so many times that I don't care to go through it again. We're never going to agree on one definition because we all see the issue from our own eyes and its difficult understanding why those on the other side disagree so vehemently.

[bridget thronton]

I like to think I support the rights of all people to live their lives as they wish. It seems to me that transgender folks cause harm to no one (and I do not take offense at being labeled trans)

[devida]

I continue to be amazed by cross dressers not understanding that society and often law clearly restricts their ability to express themselves the way they choose. This is simple.

Male cross dressers want to dress the way that women dress. They do not have protections under the law or the social approval to do this in public. It simply cannot be that anyone has the right to fire you, deny you housing, trade, or any of the perquisites of normal social and economic transactions because of the way you dress. That is a denial of basic human rights. Why would anyone make excuses for any government, employer, friend or lover who denies your right to dress the way you want to? But right now they can restrict that right.

You have no right to wear a dress to work practically anywhere in the world if you are a man and you're not wearing a kilt or a sarong or some other dress socially acceptable for men to wear in whatever culture you happen to be. You can be fired, you can be attacked, you can be harassed, you can be judged without legal or social consequence almost anywhere in the world. In some countries you can be imprisoned and even executed. Yet some people on this board do not seem to understand that we are talking about a human rights issue. That issue is the right to wear any clothes you feel like wearing. What is so difficult to understand?

And I am not even coming close to transgender rights here. I am talking about a very limited issue that cannot be resolved without transgender rights, because even though it looks like just fashion it really is an issue of gender rights. We must have the right to our gender and if that means we express our gender through our clothes, well that is what we do. Gender is not a matter or sex. It is a matter of identity. You cannot tell me I am not a Christian, a Moslem or a Jew. You cannot tell me I am not brown or black because I look white. You cannot tell me I am a man or a woman or neither because of what I have between my legs. Unless you strip search me you actually cannot tell what is between my sex is, which is not the same as my gender or sexual orientation, and frankly, your implicit wish to look at my genitals is kind of creepy.

I choose to wear feminine clothes and nobody should have have the right to stop me. You cannot tell me what my gender is by looking at me. I could be a man wearing women's clothes but happy being a man or I could be a woman wearing the clothes that fit my gender and still have a penis. Or I could be, as I am, neither and both. You must must ask me if you are so damn interested in what my gender happens to be. That is my right as a human being. If you restrict that right you are oppressing me.

That is what transgender rights are.

[Lygophilia]

No, because I gain nothing from it. Gender identity has been ran into the ground to where it give people delsions. That conclusion has solved my gender identity issues. As for marriage, I don't generally support relationships, but the divorce rate is indeed something to laugh about. However, whatever makes you happy, as I would rather see the lgbt community get their way over the religious types.

[Amanda M]

I exactly like Eryn here. I am not "out" in our small community, however, if anyone comes away with ani LGTB remarks in my presence, I do take them up on it. I do also write a regular column for a online tranasgender and crossdressing support group