Labels

[Lucy_Bella]

Labels .... What is it with everyone here and being against labeled?..Good Grief we talk about equal rights and LABEL those who appose but yet try to lay one on us...

****Breaking News***** We have already been labeled ...Do you not want the correct one? Seriously what is it that is so bad about labels? So "soup cans " are labeled..So are veggies and canned meat,etc etc etc..


Really in your honest opinion ...What is it against labels? ( Just asking no need to beat me up)

[Beverley Sims]

Lucy,
I support Isha in her campaign, labels are for soup cans or, something that is not easily identifiable.
We are easily identified.....

Basically there is too much thinking here about the bleedin' obvious.

No need to be beaten up..... Not yet anyway.

[Lucy_Bella]

But...Some of us are not so easily identified.... I could be a can of corn..

[PaulaQ]

I would think many here oppose labels because so many of us have been given really hostile, nasty, and negative ones like: "faggot", "gay boy", "tranny", "sissy", "pervert", "degenerate", "crazy", "mentally ill", etc.

This alone would make many of us suspicious of the motivations of those who'd label us.

On the other hand, I suspect some of us fear that the conclusions one might draw from applying the CORRECT label to us might not be things we are willing to face yet about ourselves.

[Michelle789]

Labels reinforce the gender binary, and the reinforce stereotypes. If only we had no labels and nothing to label, and we could all just be free to be ourselves, yet "ourselves" is a label. So can we really run away from labels?

[noeleena]

Hi.

Okay here we are The first name given you at birth is based on are you a boy or girl ,mine should have been both. not the case in 1947.now we have that label in our Country In Germany and the Govt deemed it so,

......SO...... what a lot of hassle it would have saved me one word is all i dam well needed one label .....of

an...... intersexed....... female. so yes its importaint to me and no doubt many like myself .

YES Im female and YES im different. How the hell do i explain to others WHY im different ......

Hang on. heres a ? and i know it wont be answered here Who really can say they know what its like being Like I am Unless you are , then that ? is of little value. and really who gives a dam .

Only those of us who have this LABEL know why im like this because iv done my home work and experanced Life Living with this condition makes it so much easyer to....

........ Have a life to live a life to the fullest.........

As the cat said to the tin you have a lable I just need a can opener to get inside, after that i dont need that lable.

I allso dont take myself to serous because that takes the fun out of life, so call me what you like, .... mad weird or insane or even a stroppy female ..... now wheres that can opener.

...noeleena...

[Zylia]

People are afraid of pigeonholing, negative stereotypes and all that. Like most human beings, I stereotype people all day long. Stereotypes are useful, prejudice not so much. Personally, I don't see what the problem is with awfully broad terms like 'cross-dresser' and 'transgender' and an arguably medical term like 'transsexual'.

[Charla McBee]

I've been doing a lot of research, a lot of reading in a sincere effort to figure myself out at this point. What I have so far is that I am one of those shiny silver cans hidden in a back corner, the label having long since peeled away. Of course if that unidentified can were to be brought forth into the light it might really shine.

[Marcelle]

Lucy,

I have nothing against labels per se and if you like a label applied to yourself then that is fine as well. However, I do not need someone labelling me one way or another because I am a bit more complex (as a human being) than a simple term. The problem with labels is they get too restrictive and then we start to nitpick who can and cannot belong to a labeled group (she is more TG than you so you don't belong)

Personally, I don't see what the problem is with awfully broad terms like 'cross-dresser' and 'transgender' and an arguably medical term like 'transsexual'.

As Zylia pointed out, broad labels have meaning (human, boy, girl, TG, TS) in as much as defining which group you belong to. This may help with gaining acceptance through political action (it is hard to stand-up for your rights if you don't let people know who you are). However, I don't need a label to define myself . . . I am me and I am different from you, from my neighbour, from my boss and countless millions (a one of kind - not a stereotype)

....What I have so far is that I am one of those shiny silver cans hidden in a back corner, the label having long since peeled away. Of course if that unidentified can were to be brought forth into the light it might really shine.

Charla absolutely love this.

Hugs

Isha

[BOBBI G.]

Personally I have many labels. I am a Human being, born American Citizen, at times weird, transgender female, now a girl striving toward womanhood. But two of my most recent labels came from my "brain squeezer", activist and advocate. These are the two that took me a while to digest. As long at labels are not insults or put downs, call me anything you care to. JUST CALL ME. I do like to interact.

Bobbi

[stephNE]

Hi Lucy,
Labeling something like a can of carrots, or potato soup is pretty obvious what the label should say.
But here it is more subjective; there are some labels that some people seem to embrace while others take serious exception to the term.
So we are probably all better off being happy without labels. Just a thought.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Lucy, Labels are also great for shipping packages.

[suchacutie]

The reason that labels run into so much trouble in this case is the complete inability for us to agree upon definitions for those labels. I believe Iam ttransgendered, and I know what I think that means, and thought my understanding was pretty generic until we had a thread where many who considered themselves crossdressers did NOT consider themselves transgendered, and the range of opinions about what transgendered meant was huge. I also feel that I'm bigendered, and a definition for that stands no chance of acceptance.

It's clear that a soup can labeled "tomato soup" will have a soup based on tomatoes, and that the variations will be subtle. Since we don't have those kinds of expectations around labels of gender, no one is willing to be saddled with a label defined by someone else.

[Nadine Spirit]

I don't really mind labels. I kind of think they are unavoidable.

However, what concerns me is the lack of common universal definitions for those labels. If we say a can has green beans in it, we can all know exactly what that is. But say someone is a cross dresser and there is not the same definitive outcome.

Ha funny, I didn't even read the post above mind until I posted. So what I should of said was, yeah what Suchacutie said.

[Majella St Gerard]

I need more than one label

[Cheryl T]

Labels are unavoidable. Language requires labels and if you disagree then try to describe anyone to someone else without them. It's not that we dislike labels, it's that we want the "correct" ones applied to us, not the derogatory ones that the uninformed use.
When I'm dressed and out and about the label I want most is Cheryl. After that if you need to define me in more detail then I would prefer TG. Unless someone knows me well they need go no further in being descriptive as they do not have the information necessary to accurately define me.

[donnalee]

I know this sounds pretty sappy (particularly coming from me), but it is true:
"Only those who you truly love and truly love you can know who you are and what's really in your heart. All else matters not." - donnalee

[LilSissyStevie]

I would think many here oppose labels because so many of us have been given really hostile, nasty, and negative ones like: "faggot", "gay boy", "tranny", "sissy", "pervert", "degenerate", "crazy", "mentally ill", etc.

Labels? That's what I call pillow talk.

[KittyD]

Some really good points here & some really funny ones to For me its a BIG whatever... There just all words & names & I'm more than sure we've all been called every name under the sun!
Called me what you like, I'm sure I'll get over it

[Katey888]

Lucy,
I support Isha in her campaign, labels are for soup cans or, something that is not easily identifiable.
We are easily identified.....

Can't agree with this one Bev - for starters, who are you callin' 'we'?

On the other hand, I suspect some of us fear that the conclusions one might draw from applying the CORRECT label to us might not be things we are willing to face yet about ourselves.

Good point Paula - the nature of dissonance unfortunately is that however accurate you may be, few people will agree with you..

Labels reinforce the gender binary, and the reinforce stereotypes.

I don't totally agree - perhaps only if you use existing labels - but accurate labels should allow one to discriminate (not prejudicially...) between different categories..?

The reason that labels run into so much trouble in this case is the complete inability for us to agree upon definitions for those labels.

Bingo again! I think I said something similar in the 'TG Rights..' thread the other day - but at the end of it all, if we can't agree amongst ourselves, we'll make no progress.

I accept what some have said about not needing a label for themselves... Fine - you carry on being what you are and that's all good... Some labels can be abusive or pejorative - but some 'labels' are necessary in society... If you want to practice medicine or law, you need to have a recognised 'label'... if you want to drive a big rig truck, you need to be in possession of a recognised 'label'... in the UK, if you want state benefits, you need to accept another kind of 'label'...

Labels are not always bad - but they are about categorising folk - and some may not agree with that aspect either... but it will be difficult to achieve recognition by demanding recognition of the group desiring to be unlabelled...

Katey x

[mikiSJ]

It mostly depends on who is assigning the label: I consider myself, now, to be a transgender woman desperately seeking to transition who is also a liberal, progressive, pinko, commie, atheist, opinionated, argumentative whatever.

Yet if someone were to yell fag, drag queen, sissy whatever I would definitely take issue with any of those labels. I also don't necessarily want to be included in any "we" grouping.

[Jane G]

If you mst lable me, then label me an individual. All others are kind of wasted.

[mechamoose]

I would suggest that it is frustration over *control* of our labels that matters.

When someone misidentifies who and what we are, we (naturally) find it frustrating.

You keep feeling like "No, NO NOO.. You have it all wrong!! I'm >THIS<, not >THAT< (You ignorant slob!)"

Because of the territory we skirted folk inhabit, we fit several categories. I understand that we get frustrated by mis-identification, but what signa;s do the mundanes get that let them tell us apart? Even if they are 'enlightened', Can YOU tell the difference between a DQ/CD/TS/TG at 100 yards?

<3

- MM

[sanderlay]

For me... this all goes back to when I was a kid and all my experiences since then. I was labeled a male by sex... but my gender identify was not the same. I was called gay... but I'm heterosexual. I'm called a CD... but I don't crossdress the same as many do.

Yes... accurate labels are necessary to live in this society. But labels are also used to divide us against one another at times.

No wonder I don't like others assuming what they perceive I am when I am not in reality. Why not just ask me? My gender presentation, when you see me in person, should give most persons all they need to ask a starting question.

"Are you a man or a woman?" They say with a puzzled look on their face.

"Good Question." I smile wildly and respond...

[Michelle (Oz)]

Labels reinforce the gender binary, and the reinforce stereotypes.

Sorry, the world around us does apply labels whether we like it or not. The vast majority see life in very simple, clear and easily understood terms - male or female. The 'GLB' part of 'GLTB' also fit into that simple dichotomy - perhaps the reason we are isolated.

When I'm dressed I present as female and do my best to look the part. When I'm dressed male then I am male. While my body fits within the binary, my mind and attitudes switch between the binaries. TG is a label that does not reinforce gender binary and I am very comfortable fitting into society's understanding of the TG category.

Therefore, I am very comfortable labelling myself as TG. In some ways such a label makes it easier for me to understand and accept myself. It is also preferable to very negative labels such as Paula mentioned.

What I won't enter into, and I support Isha in this, is a debate about whether I am more or less TG than others, or whether as a CDer I even qualify. It is better IMO for us to accept that labels will be used and to shape their use than to debate the finer points well beyond society's (mis)understanding.

Michelle