Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 56

Thread: Label vs Community

  1. #1
    Gone to live my life
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    6,554

    Label vs Community

    Hi all,

    As you can see by my tag line "Labels are for soup cans" I am not a fan. However, what I need to clarify is what I mean by that phrase. I do not like labels in that we spend too much time justifying what they mean and they always tend to spiral into debate over right and wrong.

    Now when I talk about labels, I am not talking about the term "Transgender". Indeed if you look at the definition of label while Transgender could be included it does not match in my opinion:

    Label: a word or phrase which is used to describe a person, group, or thing, but which is unfair or not correct e.g., Cross Dressers are all perverts . . . or all transgendered people want to change sexes. The label and the connection is linked to a misrepresentation/understanding of the term.

    In my book Transgender is a community of strong, proud and supportive individuals all working (in whatever way they deem fit) toward a common goal . . . acceptance .

    Community: a feeling of fellowship with others, as a result of sharing common attitudes, interests, and goals.

    IMO transgender is not a label so "yes", I will identify myself as "Transgendered" to anyone who asks. Where this goes wrong and I tend to get a bit miffed is when we "the community" spend way too much time trying to figure out what "transgendered" means. Specifically what constitutes membership or who has the right to call themselves "TG". Should I be allowed to call myself TG because I go out in public, tell others . . . or . . . do I have to fight the good fight and storm the ramparts of public opinion, march in pride parades. This is when "community" transcends into "labelling".

    Goodness . . . let's just accept the fact we are all different and that we belong to this wonderful community of strong, vibrant, productive, normal beings and stop trying to put a definition on the term TG. We are not a label (that is the point of my tag line) we are a community and the sooner we realize that and just go on being in whatever direction we need to go (to each their own) then we can move toward acceptance.

    So are labels for soup cans? You bet because "soup" is not a community. Is a label or series of labels sufficient to describe what it means to be Transgendered? IMHO absolutely not as we are too eclectic to have one definition. We do share common attitudes, interests and goals and that my friends is what makes us a community . . . all of us. Not some narrowly defined label.
    Last edited by Marcelle; 04-22-2014 at 08:03 AM.

  2. #2
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    S.E.Baltimore Co. Maryland USA
    Posts
    36,642
    Hi Isha, There are some people that love labels not me, But like a wise lady once said, To each their Own.
    Having my ears triple pierced is AWESOME, ~~......

    I can explain it to you, But I can't comprehend it for you !

    If at first you don't succeed, Then Skydiving isn't for you.

    Be careful what you wish for, Once you ring a bell , you just can't Un-Ring it !! !!

  3. #3
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Old Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    5,273
    Isha,

    How could I disagree... (particularly when your frustration is beginning to show... ) - and I don't disagree with what you're saying in the context of community.

    I'm more than happy to put my hand up here with respect to holding a TG banner... Of course, being constrained by my closet in other ways does rather reduce the impact of what I can do, but that doesn't prevent my unequivocal support of that in principle.

    My only caution would be just what that word means to others... Good old Wikipedia has a fairly comprehensive entry that I can subscribe to - but look on something like 'Yahoo answers' and there are some scary and plain stupid interpretations... but I suppose a modicum of misunderstanding is always going to be there whatever and however we try to define it.

    So - now that's sorted, what next? Or do we wait for someone to disagree and bundle 'em...

    Katey x
    "Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
    Stefani Germanotta

  4. #4
    Gone to live my life
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    6,554
    No frustration on my part Katey I just want to point out there is a clear distinction between the pejorative use of labels and what constitutes community. Transgender IMHO is not a label. If some choose to make it a label (pejorative use) or others try to label it to exclude/include others or even themselves, that is their right . . . who am I to judge.

    This is my view on things and people can agree or disagree as they see fit . . . no harm no foul, no bounce no play I just wanted clarify that when it comes to labels (pejorative use or wrong use) IHMO that dog don't hunt.

    Hugs

    Isha
    Last edited by Marcelle; 04-22-2014 at 08:04 AM.

  5. #5
    0 to trans in 60 seconds! Donnagirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Another Aussie girl
    Posts
    828
    I've decided I'm normal.... It's everyone else needs a label...
    Call me Donna, please

  6. #6
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    5,000
    Isha, as many have pointed out, the problem with labels is that we can't agree on definitions. Transgender, for example.
    Oh, the irony, that you define "label" with your own spin - as descriptions that are unfair or incorrect.
    No wonder we argue about labels - we can't agree on a definition of the very word.

  7. #7
    Member Jenny Elwood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    475
    Now girls, please don't fight. You made me reconsider the post I was about to make...

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,439
    OK so labels are generally unpleasant and we shouldn't apply them to people. That however doesn't stop a guy in a dress from being a cross-dresser. It's a word to describe a person with certain attributes within a certain context and most of these are pretty clear. We as a 'community' however are very good at muddying the waters with all that postmodern "nothing is true" BS. I think cross-dressers are as much a community as people with prescription glasses.

  9. #9
    Gone to live my life
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    6,554
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleScott View Post
    Isha . . . Oh, the irony, that you define "label" with your own spin - as descriptions that are unfair or incorrect.
    Nicole,

    Not my spin on the definition but Webster's and a whole host of other dictionary definitions. The other definitions range from "tiny piece of paper used to identify some item" to "tag/description to define ownership or manufacture". So no "irony" intended just my understanding of the term label as defined by others

    Hugs

    Isha

  10. #10
    Aspiring Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    844
    The only label I like to see is "half price, today only"

    Ineke

  11. #11
    Senior Member Jacqueline Winona's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    1,048
    A thoughtful post deserves a thoughtful response, even though we don't agree on this one, Isha. In my opinion (and years of arguing over this hasn't changed my opinion at all, nor have I convinced anyone else I'm right), Transgender refers to people who are actively engaging in dressing, seeking a transition, actually transitioning, dating members of the same gender (whether pre or post transition) because they are members of the same gender. Yes, it's broad, but I don't see how it could ever apply to a hetero CD who dresses at home, doesn't interact with people while dressed except at costume parties, etc. The distinction, at least in the U.S., is that people in the first group in my example do suffer discrimination. Those of us at home don't, we can take or leave this. We don't have desires to date men when we are dressed, thus we really don't have that much in common with the rest of the LGB group. But those who do, or those who date women after or during transition, do relate to the rest of the LGB community. This does not mean, as many accuse, that we have no sympathy for the LGBT community or are afraid to admit we're a part of it, we just do not and never will see how what we do has anything in common with those who are living their lives in the public eye while dressed.
    Maybe this helps, maybe it doesn't. By analogy, it would be like me saying "anyone who dresses out of their home on a regular basis is really a transsexual, regardless of whether they know it or believe it." My statement wouldn't be accurate and would probably offend a number of people, as not everyone wants to be part of the bigger group or should be lumped into an umbrella group.

  12. #12
    Bad Influence mechamoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,353
    Hi Isha!

    (big fan)

    Part of it is labels (their labels irk us more than our labels do), part of it is community. I'm not a 'standard' CD person. After swimming in the waters here for while, I recognize that I'm an outlier.

    We all naturally want to feel included and accepted. We want a community that supports that. This is an awesome space.

    If I showed up at a gathering of members who passed or transitioned, I recognize that I would stick out like a big red flag. A large part of me would tell me to NOT show up so that I didn't wreck things for those of you who have put in so much time and effort. I'd *still* want to be there though, because that is where I'd find people who *get* it.

    >conflicted<

    -MM
    - Madame 'Kitty' Moose

    I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam." -- Popeye the Sailor

    "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?"

    - Hillel the Elder

  13. #13
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    5,000
    OK, Isha, I stand corrected. I did find a source (but not "a whole host of other...") that included "inaccurate" in its definition. Definitions are arranged from most commonly used to least, and this one was way down the list. I guess this illustrates the problem with some labels: some people see them as neutral descriptive terms and others see them in a negative way.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,439
    Kinda like how 'cross-dresser' is a neutral descriptive term according to some while others see it in a negative way. Coincidence?

  15. #15
    Bad Influence mechamoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Central Massachusetts
    Posts
    2,353
    Zylia.. cross dresser is the simple, easy label. People tend to grab on to that first. More than that requires more involvement, which requires that you care more than you would with a casual (public) encounter.

    People who know me and are my friends get it, I don't expect the average person on the street to do so.
    - Madame 'Kitty' Moose

    I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam." -- Popeye the Sailor

    "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?"

    - Hillel the Elder

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    1,439
    I'd say John Q. Public doesn't 'get' cross-dressers either. Hell, I gladly identify as 'cross-dresser' and there a plenty of other cross-dressers who don't get me. We're all special, but ultimately though, I'm still a dude in a dress.

  17. #17
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    5,000
    To me and many others, crossdresser and transvestite mean the same, the difference being English vs. Latin-based. But many people prefer crossdresser and are highly offended by transvestite and its negative (mostly sexual) connotations, or so they think.

  18. #18
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Old Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    5,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacqueline Winona View Post
    In my opinion (and years of arguing over this hasn't changed my opinion at all, nor have I convinced anyone else I'm right), Transgender refers to people who are actively engaging in dressing, seeking a transition, actually transitioning, dating members of the same gender (whether pre or post transition) because they are members of the same gender. Yes, it's broad, but I don't see how it could ever apply to a hetero CD who dresses at home, doesn't interact with people while dressed except at costume parties, etc.
    Jacqueline - I think you've demonstrated part of the problem.. Your definition here is way different from mine, and probably from Isha's, and certainly from Wikipedia (not that I'm suggesting it's the absolute resource for everything, but it is a good starting point...). Wiki clearly includes transvestite or cross-dresser in transgender identities... Question for you, from me, would be: are you prepared to accept a 3rd party definition of TG?

    The rest of your post is a good example of how definitions and myth mix and I think relates to how some here may be offended by the classification TG... If you asked me six months ago if I was TG I would have told you no... That was my ignorance at work... having read a lot here and other academic papers, I am now better informed.

    We have to be prepared to be open-minded not just about who we share this community with, but also if we are prepared to accept objective views of how the community can be classified. If we can't do that, it will be more difficult for some parts of our community to make progress - not impossible, but more difficult...

    Katey x
    "Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
    Stefani Germanotta

  19. #19
    Gold Member Rachael Leigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Dallas Ft Worth metro
    Posts
    5,583
    Labeling has had many not so good consequence's throughout history I mean Germany in the 30s and 40s for example look what happened even if you did business with a Jew. Now that is extreme but I think you understand what I mean. Isha is right in that while society puts labels on us we don't have to agree with it.
    We mostly are men who have families, spouses and children that we love and care for them. I for one still don't understand why I do what I do but if it were something else I still would not want to be labeled.

  20. #20
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Lowestoft UK. Beverley was here.
    Posts
    30,355
    I have been labelled mad, stupid, idiotic and many unmentionable names.
    But I strongly support 'labels for soup cans', so there is not much thought from this neck of the woods.

    'Labels' is bordering on 'what colour panties are you wearing?' yep, it's wearing me down.
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

  21. #21
    Transgender Member Dianne S's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,378
    For better or for worse, the human brain is designed to categorize. We've evolved that as a survival mechanism. I will inevitably get labeled. so I might as well embrace the labels.

    The key is that I am more than just the sum of my labels. While all the labels people apply to me describe some aspect of my being, they don't define me totally.

  22. #22
    Banned Read only
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    3,913
    Honestly, as a community we are mostly invisible. To the outside world, we may as well not even exist. Many of them would prefer that we didn't.

    No, you don't have to march in a pride parade - simply doing what you do Isha, and being out in public is plenty good enough to increase our visibility. The world needs to know we exist, and that we are people, not monsters.

    The internal disputes in our community disturb me too. We need to pull together, despite our differences, if we want to survive at all. Because the hatred we face is the same.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Amanda M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    We're in Andalucia, Spain
    Posts
    1,069
    Isha - thought provoking as usual. Mostly, we use labels as shorthand, because often, if we did not, then it would take to long to communicate what we mean. In my business, they can be useful - that said, I detest statements from clinicians of the sort that say "She's a bipolar", for example. It demeans the person, and her condition. However, if a colleague says "She suffers from bipolar disorder", it gives me a great deal of information about what that person might be going through. Labelling - as a means of elucidating on a persons behavior or lifestyle, if it is done with sensitivity, can be useful.

    However, when it is done simply to put a person into a category, it is, to me, abhorrent. Every profession uses jargon, (in my case, psychobabble) between it's members. Hopefully, all those involved can see past the labelling to the person underneath. It is easy, though for people outside the particular discipline to get hold of the wrong end of the stick. In summary, for me, labelling is fine within a professional context - for example "This organism is gram negative, non-gasproducing and halophilic". Your average bacteriologist would know exactly what that means, but outside the lab, it is open to misinterpretation.

    So Isha, in general, I don't like labels - especially on open fora such as this, but they do have their place.

    Finally, my butt hurts from sitting on the fence.
    If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

  24. #24
    Gone to live my life
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    6,554
    Okay, okay . . . I surrender no more talk about labels or engaging in label banter or all things labels (still not going to give up my tag line though).

    However my one question is . . . Beverly what colour are your panties?

    Hugs

    Isha
    Last edited by Marcelle; 04-22-2014 at 02:50 PM.

  25. #25
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The Poconos PA
    Posts
    18,972
    I think we should put it away for awhile in a storage tub and label it.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Check out these other hot web properties:
Catholic Personals | Jewish Personals | Millionaire Personals | Unsigned Artists | Crossdressing Relationship
BBW Personals | Latino Personals | Black Personals | Crossdresser Chat | Crossdressing QA
Biker Personals | CD Relationship | Crossdressing Dating | FTM Relationship | Dating | TG Relationship


The crossdressing community is one that needs to stick together and continue to be there for each other for whatever one needs.
We are always trying to improve the forum to better serve the crossdresser in all of us.

Browse Crossdressers By State