Jenn, I think you are absolutely correct!Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
Jenn, I think you are absolutely correct!
If they don't know you are a CDer, then they could not be mocking you. It was your choice to be offended by other people having a little fun.
Yep, me too! Some are too good to be true and it's bloody annoying isn't it?....................I often questioned myself who was a GG and who wasn't!)
Rebecca
I'd lighten up about it. This behavior is nothing more than silly childish teenage activity. Is it demeaning to cross dressers? No, the boys are emulating women and not men who are acting as women. Sure, you're envious. Maybe you should have had a run at prom king. Then the issue would be whether or not a closeted cross dressing high school teenager would have truly emulated a high school prom queen by shaving his legs and arms, wearing a wig if his hair could not be styled into a feminine look, struted as a woman in four inch heels, and had impeccable makeup including polished finger and toe nails. What would the high school crowd thought then.
From what I have read on this site on the Internet there have been many schools with "switch" days. Nothing more than silly high school rituals.
I can now see that there are a lot of people who don't see the big picture. In some minds as long as you aren't specifically the target, it isn't a problem. Harmless adolescent pranks can damage those around you, you don't have to be the one who is directly the victim. In some views here, you had to be black to march with King. After all the white people weren't being mocked or marginalized. Once again I have to refer to Neimoler's poem. We are a family of man, not small groups who are independent.
Change starts somewhere and just because others do it doesn't make it right. I love how so many here are all for the status quo because their ox is not being gored. Ah what the heck, so what if women get paid less, everyone does that, they don't need the money they can find husbands. Who cares if a handicapped person can't use the library because of the stairs, every library in the US is like that. Gays and marriage?...hell they aren't really people, they aren't gong to have families. You don't believe in my deity? Sorry you can't live in my neighborhood.
Things change with time, the inequities and the marginalization of certain groups is supposed to be going away, but I see that some here are still "it doesn't effect me, so I don't care" Someday it could effect you. Yes it is MY choice to be offended. But choosing to be offended is what got a lot of changes made.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
I agree with Lorileah. The potential insults involved in this "harmless prank" are several. Why is it OK to make fun of some group that does not include you. There are many things that can be done at a prom that are humourous and this is not one.
Yes, it's obviously to tease the people who have to do it. To call it mocking or degrading on general principle is a little over-dramatic. Obviously, the tone of these things is what determines how harmful something may be, and that's something that the faculty at the school ought to be evaluating. When it happened at my high school, I saw nothing that led me to believe that the events were anything but good-natured. As near as I can recall, the court all played along, everyone had a laugh, and when it was over, the guys on the court all continued to nail cheerleaders and be popular just as before. Hardly degrading. Of course, if someone who has to participate feels terribly wronged by all of it, then that person ought to say something.
For me, as someone who sat there and watched, knowing that I would probably go home and put on pantyhose and a slip that night, I just thought it was kind of cute. All of those dull, straight geeks laughing at (not really even at just near) the surface of a pond they'd never even begin to understand the depth of.
But that's just my opinion, the one that the OP asked for. I can't speak for everyone.
"She ain't waiting 'til she gets older, her feet are makin' tracks in the winter snow.
She got a rainbow that touches her shoulder, she be headed where the thunder rolls."
-Van Halen, "Secrets"
Sorry Lorileah, but you and many others are many just too big a deal out of all this. They are not intentionally nor unintentionally mocking anyone. They are following a school sanctioned ritual to do something different prior to their prom. If it is mocking women, then as someone else said early in this thread we CD's are doing the same, and according to your reasoning we should stop and show more respect to women and whoever else is offended by it, including the men who do not understand why another guy may want to wear women's clothing and actually go out into the real world. What about those guys who dress up for Halloween as women, regular ones or sexy ones? They must be mocking women and must stop doing that according to your reasoning. Actually, they should just ban Halloween because people mock priests, nuns (you know the pregnant nun costumes), football players, hobos, injured war veterans with crutches and fake bloody bandages, vampires and everyone else. What about all those wonderful pet owners who continually dress up their pets in dresses, and sweaters and put pink bows in their dog's fur to make them look pretty? That must be mocking the poor pets who are more than happy not taking baths, wearing their own fur without adornments. I think that all vets should be telling their clients to treat their pets with more respect and stop living their cute fantasies at pet's expense. What about this charity events where men dress as women in support of the event? I sure someone out there will consider that an insult to women.
The point is that we do things all the time that someone can take as an insult, when in fact they are not, except for that offended someone. If you want to look for offenses, they are there everywhere from the funny ads (reference the recent Veet ad thread or some of the Honda commercials that depict the man as a complete idiot while the wife gets everything), the initiation rites of passage into select groups like fraternities and sororities, to even the military, as someone pointed out above. Being respectful is one thing and it is good, having fun is another when it, in my opinion, is innocent as this schools annual pre-prom special activities.
I understand how someone can see something that someone else is doing and feel bad. That does not always mean that the other person is doing something wrong. I would guess that most of the time it just means that the offended feeling bad person sees something that reminds them of their own issues that they have yet to come to terms with. It is not bad to feel that way and is probably very natural. However, instead of leading a campaign to end a simple school ritual because one feels bad, the person needs to learn how to deal with their own issues and get on with their lives. If the ritual or activity was obviously directed toward them in the sense of discrimination, putting down some subset group of people, then yes, that is wrong. This whole ritual is there to have a good time by all. If one of the contestants doesn't want to participate they can always say no. Yes, they will probably take some flack for that, but learning to stand and hold your ground about what you will or will not do is also a very good learning process. Standing out from the crowd when necessary is good.
On a closing note, I am one who believes that the more press that we get, the more that we TG's are out there in all shapes, forms and presentations, the more non TG people participate in our dress up activities in plays, school rituals such as this one the more and other public ones like the charity men in heels walks or crossdressing for charity events, that over the long term the general public will start to understand that we are also part of their society and this real world and that as human beings we have the same rights as anyone else in this diverse world.
OK Allie, you sold me.
It's harmless fun. I mean, it's not like TG people are depicted negatively in the media ever:
- cross dressing men are treated with dignity, not for laughs
- drag queens are viewed as serious entertainers
- transsexuals are treated as regular human beings, not creepy, deceptive "things", or hopelessly exotic sex objects
I think the African American folks were kind of over the top about complaining about minstrel shows too - but those were before my time!
You are right - what we are forgetting about is the societal context - that overall feeling of love, acceptance, tolerance - and dare I say it - a little envy perhaps? - from society at large. Yes, we should just develop a thicker hide!
I mean, it would be totally different if we were ridiculed, threatened, attacked, and reviled at nearly every turn! In that context, the event might be considered to have an unconcious subtext of "look at how ridiculous men in women's clothes look," and "this is only allowed once a year - for laughs."
Pity that so many of us here are too dull to get the bigger picture, but I'm sure we'll catch up one day. Personally, I'm just a bit slow (only have the one law degree) but please feel free to mock me. Seeing as change starts somewhere, I therefore advocate that AprilMayy stomp in to see the authorities immediately and have this oppressive and despicable act stopped at once. In the process she can also set herself against her peers for what is only a harmless bit of fun. This is not insulting behaviour for me and no amount of over the top analogies will convince me otherwise. Good luck in fighting the good fight as advocated by some AprilMayy,....you'll need it!
Rebecca
Last edited by reb.femme; 04-24-2014 at 04:08 PM.
What sprang to my mind was the recent post of photographs of couples gender swapping for prom night;
http://www.fastcodesign.com/3028480/...rd-prom-pics#2
Perhaps what was called for was a similar approach. Find a GG who's up for the challenge and go for the wow factor. If you could find one GG then it's possible she can persuade some of her girl friends, and hence their boy friends to join in. It's a bit of hiding in plain sight.
Who dares wears Get in, get out without being noticed
Wow . . . quite the litany of responses but I think we kind of lost track of what the OP was commenting on. This was her perception and it was a real annoyance to her. I am sure a lot of us here have thicker skin given our advanced ages and experience but she is a bit younger and may not have all those life giving experiences we have. I think back to high school and for me it was very real and very intense . . . I can joke about it now because the things that have gone on my life since that time make high school pale in comparison. Let's cut the OP some slack and just agree that some think it was no big thing and others don't agree for their own reasons.
Hugs
Isha
There seems to be an industry of taking offense these days. What really riles me is the taking offense on behalf of others (offended by proxy), like Bob Costas being "highly offended" over the use of Native American (I dare not say Indian) names and mascots. It's just not right to mock groups of people, except Seminoles and Irish. That's fine, so says the NCAA. I wonder how many games Costas called for such teams before becomiing highly offended.
Suddenly, being prompted by the offense industry, people say they are highly offended if they see a cross, nativity scene, red and green colors together in December, and the list goes on, including a little fun gender-switching.
If you want to live your life always being a victim, knock yourself out. Not me.
Thanks Isha, took the words right outta my mouth!
As I've said already, the male version of me has the thickest skin around, I'm not offended by anything. Though April is a different story, which is why I was slightly offended by this, though not anymore. Thanks for all the responses everyone, really appreciate it!
This was big news a short while back. A white girl (Julianne Hough) wanted to do a group Halloween theme of the very popular "Orange is the new Black" on Netflix. Someone had to play the Character "Crazy Eyes" and they were all white. One did black makeup and the news all but Crucified her. I know school events have been done for years but eventually they have to adjust to the times. I dare say after a cross dressing event like this as a joke, any man who showed up in a dress for the real prom would be turned away at many schools, just like the girls who want to wear a tux and go with their girlfriend.
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.1497396
Last edited by Jenny Gurl; 04-24-2014 at 07:16 PM.
No CDer of any age is ever going to be able to go out "dressed" and ENJOY themselves or have fun as long as they have that
"the world hates us - for anything and everything" - chip on their shoulders.
It;s simply not true and those who perpetuate that MYTH do nothing to help your fellow CDers.
I find it so amazing that a lot of people were telling OP to lighten up, as if they couldn't imagine how OP was feeling at the time.
High school is an intense period,.. and for some it's positive because they were popular.. or just didn't have any real problems/issues. For others, it could have been a period of bullying, not fitting in, figuring out one's own identity.
Like OP indicated.. she felt like this was mocking CD's, even though I'm pretty sure that most of these guys dressing up had no thoughts whatsoever concerning crossdressing. For me, what's offensive and I'm glad more and more schools are being called out on this.. is the spreading of the implicit message that "guys in dresses" are funny.
And if you're a young CD/TG/TS trying to figure out what's what.. and you're hearing "Hahahaha.. look at Billy.. doesn't he look ridiculous in that dress?!" all the time on such a day... you just want the ground to swallow you whole.
I know a lot of CD's are content and happy with just dressing up at home.. but for those that want to go out, but aren't passable (or don't want to be).. the ridiculing message is not helping. And telling someone to lighten up "because it's high school and kids are gonna be kids".. that's just being completely insensitive.
/rant
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If I could do it all over again I'd run for prom king just to dress up. I know back then I never would have the courage to do it. It is a great excuse. Test the waters whenever you can.
Miss April, girl they are crossdressing, but not the way we do girl, that is why If someone ask me I say I am a T-Girl, wearing any item of female clothes is crossdressing, but this has beening going on for ever, and if you do make a deal of it at school, the rest of the kids will know something is up. when I was in high school, we had what was know as power puff football and basketball games every year, until my senior year when they started girls basketball, and boys would be dress as cheerleaders for the girls, I always want to be able to dress as a cheerleader for one of these events, but it was the favorite boys who got to. Girl I feel your pain, if is not fair, but you try to do your best, just protect your self from the others, Some day you can go out as a pretty young woman. hugs.
[SIZE="3"][/SIZE][SIZE="3"]Stacy Lynn Coral[/SIZE]
Ahhh, the joys of homecoming / prom week. Personally, opposite day was one of the few times I ever went out dressed (and that includes all the way up till now). Embrace it and if anybody says anything to you about it, tell them "if you're going to do something, do it all the way and do it right".
Honestly, it's no more offensive then being chased around with a dirty sock, though some might find that offensive too.
Last edited by geek; 04-28-2014 at 11:31 PM.
Most any thing I post is from my phone, this is why my answers are short and also why I don't post all to often.
Wow.
I'm almost speechless, ...almost, but after reading through all of these posts I am legitimately beginning to fear for the society that awaits those poor little fockers behind us. About a year ago, I noticed that the trans community was taking a nasty turn toward smug political correctness. I was inspired enough to write about it on my blog, and lo and behold, it has become worse than I imagined and is getting even worse by the day.
So now closeted cross dressers are offended because people other than them are cross dressing? Yikes, what's worse is this idea is getting support from real transitioners that should frankly know better. On the other hand, the TS community is currently in a tizzy because drag queens are off color and call each other unsavory names. So I guess in a world where a drag queen can't even call herself a tranny without actual trannies getting their panties in a twist, the sky is the limit in regard to political correctness.
To the TS women who would say I was part of the problem, I say go F your self. I'm a construction manager and I transitioned on the job so if you think you have the corner on tough breaks, think again. My transition would have emotionally crippled anyone who is offended so easily. I can't even imagine my life now if drag queens and cross dressed high school boys could actually offend me. The guys that work for me would be very accommodating I'm sure if I was indeed such a simpering flower. Heaven knows nobody uses any off color or salty language in my line of work, nah those guys are very respectful of weak spirited complainers.
Here's an idea, AprilMayy, grow a backbone and live YOUR life. Don't be so concerned about what people think about you. You have time on your side so make the most of it while you have it. Right now you're just young but if you're still complaining about shit like this in 10 years, you will be less young and more pathetic. Screw the kids who CD for a joke, they have no effect on you unless you allow it. Do not allow bitterness and envy to control your life. Live the life you want to live and seek joy instead of offense. I'll tell you right now that if someone is going to try to offend me, they're gonna work awful hard for very little return, if any. I know I'm a nasty ratchet bitch, but I can guarantee you that I have a good time and I enjoy my life no matter what. I try to have a good time every time. Life is short lady, and it took me over 40 years to learn that my own attitude is what colored every single experience. I was 18 once too, and I would give anything to go back knowing what I know now. I wish somebody would have just told me this one thing: Life sucks, but it can suck in the bad way, or it can suck in the good way, it's your choice either way.
Wow. That escalated quickly.
I went to the mall fully dressed my sophomore year of college and got laughed at in my face by an entire family (granted, I didn't put any real effort into it or makeup on.)
Times have changed...
There are countries where gay people get there limbs cut off and stoned to death.
Last edited by Taylor Ray; 04-28-2014 at 11:31 PM.
Here is your BIG chance!
I think you should show support for the Idea and not let just the prom king contestants CD. Jon the fun and get dressed also that day.
Show them how good a girl can look, If anyone asks what yor doing dressed aas a girl just tell them you thought it would be fun and to show support for the prom.
Its even better than Halloween!
You may get some fun pointers from the GG's in yur class on make up etc.
What a great opportunity.
Go get'em
Bobbi
Aint nothin gonna happen that aint supposed too!
So tangential snark, imagined personal attack (I can't imagine thinking an out TS is part of *any* problem and didn't intend for anyone to think that), and tirade aside - I find that rarely as this happens, I agree to an extent with Misty.
@AprilMayy - I am sympathetic with your situation, and I don't much like the particular high school tradition you are discussing, as I really do feel like it's part of the stuff that keeps us down.
However - I am thinking about your plight through the filter of my own experiences at your age, 33 years ago. 33 years ago, complaining or trying to voice discontent about something like this would've been suicide. (Possibly quite literally - the one openly gay kid in my school was murdered.)
The world today is different though. It's FAR from perfect, but there's a lot more room for you to stand up and make a difference if this really bothers you. I've met three different trans women who've transitioned before the age of 18. One of them got kicked out of school, and had to fight that in court. She won.
This isn't in some bastion of liberalism - it was in Tulsa, Oklahoma, for gosh sakes! Now Tulsa is probably the most liberal place in the state of Oklahoma - but still - we're talking OKLAHOMA - a state that is generally pretty hostile to *anything* LGBT.
So I guess I'm going to have to say that if you want to be silently offended at a perceived trampling of rights you've never bothered to assert, then you are going to continue to be disappointed. How is anyone going to ever decide whether or not these kinds of events are OK or not if nobody ever says anything? They aren't.
It goes back to something I've said in another thread - if your complaint is "why can't I, without severe negative consequences, cross dress in public, but women can wear male styled clothing? This is no fair!", then I have to say it's because women fought for, and earned that right, and CDs haven't.
All that said, I am sympathetic that this really did hurt your feelings
Melissa,
Pleased to see one of yor infrequent visits these days.
Love your philosophy and it makes me realise things don't really change much over time.
I think a lot of it here is youth and inexperience being shied away and protected too much.
Work on your elegance,
and beauty will follow.
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