Conchita Wurst

[PaulaQ]

Pretty man with a pretty beard...

The controversy on this is why I feel like an alien.

Oh honey... It's OK to be gender queer. I think it's great that someone who flips the bird to the gender binary won! Not everyone's a hater - hey - Conchita won after all.

[mechamoose]

ReineD.. I would sooner cut off my legs than shave my beard. I have had it, non-stop, for 30 years.

During that time I have worn a full body dress and sparkly heels

[ReineD]

Did you wear a long feminine wig and heavy eye makeup, blush, lipstick as well? Did you go out? I'm trying to get an accurate picture.

We do have members who present in public as men and who wear skirts. Maybe even sparkly shoes. But, they are presenting as men and not like Conchita. Where do you fall?

[Mink]

in regards to reine's line of questioning or the concept of genderduck (!)...

in 2009/2010 I finally ventured out in public in a dress ... first in California on a trip and then at home in Minnesota... I had a full beard and massive dreadlocks!... no makeup or shaving or wig of any kind

Halloween 2010 i went as a "bearded lady" (it was a hit!)... I shaved my legs but NOT my chest or face... put a wig on over my dreaded hair... it was a sight to behold! but it was Halloween mind you...

in 2011 I cut the dreads which I had had for about 5 years or so... I tried going out in the manner which most do here... fully shaving / makeup / wig and such ... strangely I felt more uncomfortable like that than when I was out with the beard / regular hair! ... i'm not sure why? I still felt like I was just some dude in a dress! ... my avatar pic is the only pic of me I have where I went all out

this last Halloween I did the dress +beard thing again but no body shaving yet a wig and makeup... sure it was Halloween but by this time my group of friends had seen me wearing dresses as a guy multiple times...

I guess I like feeling like there are no rules... I've tried many combos In regards to presentation and still question how I want to go about... I just know that going all out esp. with shaving really didn't make me feel much better or more comfortable or more feminine or more "me"... so it seemed like a LOT of effort for little personal reward

the strangest I guess is how I was much less nervous when I had the dreadlocks and beard... it was like "yeah this is me... what of it?" or why are you wearing a dress? I don't know... I like wearing 'em / just felt like it! that sort of thing... now that I look less "weird" I get scared about what people think more... it's odd...

i'm sort of on opposite sides because sometimes I just didn't care what people thought or liked the attention / provoking a reaction but at he same time i'm actually quite nervous and sensitive to how others react... I think a LOT of it has to do with the mood i'm In who i'm with what setting I am or the context of the situation

there was this underground queer space in Minneapolis that pretty much had an anything goes vibe... lots of mixed presentations going on... and no one cared! we just talked like normal or complimented random choices or articles of clothing... I miss that place!

but that was more a special place that was not only more "The Youth" of today but also DIY (do it yourself) underground type dealy ...

[mechamoose]

Mascara, eye shadow, lipstick.. yes.

All with muscles & fur.

[ReineD]

Wow, you're brave. What was the reaction, and why did you choose to present this way?

Thanks for answering.

[mechamoose]

"Polite blindness"

Maybe it is because I'm a big 'ol beast they don't call me out. How do I tell?

I still get called 'sir'.

I present this way because it is who I feel like. It is who I am. I'm not a guy, I'm not a girl, I'm something else.

- MM

[Zylia]

I didn't watch the show, but I wonder if the support for Conchita was rather wanting to give Russia the middle finger?

So why didn't Ukraine win in that case Granted, they finished sixth, also way too high considering the song. Anyway, causal reductionism is causal reductionism. I agree with Nicola's post, but you make a fair point too. She got the LGBT vote and the protests and controversy strengthened her position as well.

[ReineD]

I present this way because it is who I feel like. It is who I am. I'm not a guy, I'm not a girl, I'm something else.

Then I apologize if my comments made you feel like an alien.

The first time I ever saw a crossdresser (she presented totally as a woman) was at a women's meeting I used to attend. I wasn't staring, but I kept sneaking furtive glances. My brain was getting accustomed to the idea of a male presenting as a woman. There was no beard. After a few meetings, I think about 3 or 4, my friend's appearance became more normal to me. It took time. Through the course of that time I was getting to know her as well (she identified as a she), and we had talked. My point is that my friend's look was jarring to me at first, precisely because it was all new. But then through repeated exposure, things changed.

I don't think this will happen with women who wear beards, no matter how many Conchitas there are making statements for genderqueerness. There just are not enough around to make that difference. I imagine that Conchita would know what to expect should he (I do believe he identifies as a male) go out in public like this in his day-to-day life. And if Conchita hated being stared at (or being purposely ignored like you), then he would have to make a choice, either to not care and continue being Conchita, or shave the beard. One or the other. But I think it would be unrealistic of Conchita to expect people to not stare.

If I'm wrong, then I'll eat my slippers.

[KittyD]

I thought the show was great and the best ever As for Thomas "Tom" Neuwirth AKA Conchita Wurst "Wurst means 'sausage' in German" he is a Drag act and a comedian with a great voice and talent
What he did here was great but nothing new, men with beards and drag have been around before. Remember the great and sadly missed Kenny everett... Still that said Tom really did have a great Eurovision winning tune.
Most of the songs thoughtout the night sounded more like Jame Bond theme tunes to be honest...! Main thing is he did his own thing and he looked amazing and made so many people happy

[Teresa]

I think our community is going to get a bad backlash from all this, many are going to jump on the bandwagon and make fun and bring ridicule on a serious and important part of our lives ! How Conchita deals with the limelight now and what the bottom line is on her CDing act is going to make a big impact on the whole scene like never before because of the way the media community now works ! It may not be the flag waving we expect but more keep your heads down !

[Kate T]

The jarring that you talk about Reine is as you have acknowledged a purely social thing due to lack of exposure. Maybe there will never be enough exposure to bearded ladies to "normalise" them. Who knows. Stranger things have happened. That is not really the point though. The issue is whether such a performance and performer is good for both this specific community and for the general community. The answer in my opinion is clearly YES. Sure, one exposure is not enough to normalise it but it is still many times better than NO exposure. Perhaps we should never mention or express something that is not consistent with society average. That should work, we will just hide in a closet until society changes itself.

If we wait for popularism before we push for social justice then we will be waiting a long time indeed and many important social equalities of the last 100 years would never have even started.

Yes I have had laser on my beard to reduce it, and no I am not TS but rather CD / Bigender / Genderqueer. Why did I get it done? Because I genuinely don't like my facial hair and the beard stubble etc. It is my choice and my expression. I don't get stared at because I don't have a beard.

So if you wanted to go out with a beard Reine I would back you up 110%. If you don't and wish to have electrolysis or shave then I will still back you up 110%. I most certainly will not tear you down, suggest that maybe you should just shave so that you can fit in and be less jarring, and I will not judge you other than to say I think you are a brave person to be who you want to be.

[Katey888]

A lot of good stuff has already been noted about this already - this stands out for me as the best summary of how I read it and the truth of how most European Citizens are likely to...

Does the general audience celebrate Conchita Wurst because of her performance ability and her beauty, or are people fascinated with the novel aspect of a feminine looking person who is really a man with a beard? If it's the latter, then I don't think capitalizing on the sensationalism is doing this community any favors. I don't want people to look at my SO as some sort of freak, who does this for shock value possibly for political reasons.

I think that only members of the LGBTQ community will celebrate the bold statement for diversity made by Conchita. The rest of the audience, I'm afraid, will see it as a side show.

And sadly Eurovision has little going for it by way of uniting opinion - political or otherwise - and I still feel that the motivation of why someone is doing something is relevant - so this also for me, sums up the motivation:

Conchita is an entertainer, not a crossdresser; she may be talented and put on a good show but that does not make her part of this community.

Conchita/Tom is doing this for the celebrity and the real fame/ financial payback - I don't really feel there's anything more than that for him... And while the good folk and Eurocrats of all the individual countries and broadcasting commissions may appear to have been making a 'political' statement about either the positive attributes of accepting alternative or LGBTQ lifestyles and/or a metaphorical finger to Mr Putin to say 'we in Europe embrace Conchita because we know you and your lot don't' - it won't make a difference in either case - the first is just political correctness; the latter might assuage some political feelings for the lack of a more practical and effective economic and military policy for the plight of Ukraine... (I can just hear the conversation in the corridors of Brussels in a few months time: "Well I know that Putin has now effectively annexed half of Ukraine and is now posturing at the Baltic states - and yes, I know NATO has done nothing and we won't implement further economic sanctions because he'll cut off half our gas supply... but we really gave him a bloody nose over Eurovision!" )

If the UK were to enter a DQ with a comical name (Sophia Sausage?) it would be regarded as a joke, right?

I wish it were otherwise, but all that seems to be coming out of the media coverage is that anyone who wears a dress, and maybe a beard, and identifies as male, is gay and a DQ...

Katey x

[MissVictoria]

I have gone out both 100% en femme, shaven, made up and tressed with long locks. I've also run errands to the mall in a short summer dress, high wedge sandals, make-up and a heavy 5 o'clock shadow, with no wig. I am semi passable, and will get looked at either way. Why should I take extra time out of my day to present "properly"(others words, not mine) when it really doesnt matter or gives me cause for concern? I have had people try to sneak a cell phone pic both ways, to which I will always ask if they want me to pose. Some have eaten crow and walked away, others have taken me up on the offer. Both ways, I am me, and you get me either way. I don't consider myself a woman trapped in a mans body, nor is it something I need to do. As I stated in another thread, this is what I do in my free time. Honestly, pushing the gender envelope to me is alot more fun than trying to blend into the masses. I have had great discussions with many different types of people about my look. Sales associates escpecially, at the store I frequent, like Torrid and Forever 21, get a kick out of it, and each time, I leave with them knowing that I am not some sort of freak there to eat their children and set fire to their clothes, but a normal guy who likes to look pretty every now and then.

[Beverley Sims]

Claire,
I don't think it upsets the community at all.

It is not how I would want to appear, many do and are happy doing it.

To each their own and as long as people don't want to inflict their views on to me, who am I to care.

[Jenniferathome]

This victory says nothing about acceptance. It's a side show. If a monkey could sing, the money would have won. Acceptance doesn't come on a public stage, it comes in the grocery store or library, or sidewalk in anytown.

[Rachel Morley]

I imagine that Conchita would know what to expect should he (I do believe he identifies as a male) go out in public like this in his day-to-day life.

From what I can tell, that is correct. Here's an interview where he/she says the look is all about a stage persona and he is "a boy at home".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IC-JFLUWQGk#t=5m10s

In case the link to the exact point in the interview doesn't work, start watching at 5 mins 10 seconds in.

[ReineD]

... and each time, I leave with them knowing that I am not some sort of freak there to eat their children and set fire to their clothes, but a normal guy who likes to look pretty every now and then.

I think it is the same with crossdressers who do attempt to blend in. People are suspicious and some may even feel threatened until they actually have human interaction, at which time they discover that there is no threat even if they still think it is somewhat weird.

I don't know that seeing a normal guy with a beard and wearing a dress is pretty though, not in the way that most people consider is pretty. Interesting or entertaining (if you are doing this for fun) might be better words to use, and even educational especially if you engage in conversations about needing to present the way you do because it is a reflection of who you are, neither male nor female like MM? This is not, however, what Conchita is doing. Conchita is most definitely male.

Perhaps we should never mention or express something that is not consistent with society average. That should work, we will just hide in a closet until society changes itself.

I'm not advocating hiding at all, not for members like Mechanical Moose, MissVictoria, and others even if they think, like MissVictoria, that pushing the gender envelope is a lot more fun that going along with the masses. I just don't think that popularizing pushing the envelope by being a male bearded lady on stage does anything to help the general public gain any understanding of gender issues, even if thousands of young people feel that it is cool to see someone push an envelope. And the danger, in my view, is also to have people think that my SO and others like her, present the way they do because this is a fun, or interesting, or political thing to do. It goes a lot deeper than that.

And if I did have a beard and decided to wear it proudly to make a point, I don't think I'd need support. I would already have decided that my statement would garner attention and I'd be prepared for the reactions.

Another analogy: I knew several young members of a trans support group that were FtM. In time, the ones who didn't have mastectomies and HRT decided they were not males in female bodies after all, although they were very masculine women who preferred to present butch and stay in the lesbian community. None of them wore push up bras and makeup along with their male haircuts and male clothing. They chose to not feature the feminine aspects of their bodies because this was not who they were and I dare say they did not also want to form a side show. They wanted to live and work in peace and to be accepted for who they were, and not be noticed for making political statements.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[NicolaF]

I'm amazed at how so many people on here are viewing this negatively, this is the only place where I have seen this kind of reaction, all other social media I have looked at, twitter especially, have had nothing but praise for the result last night and the message it sends.

As for Thomas "Tom" Neuwirth AKA Conchita Wurst "Wurst means 'sausage' in German" he is a Drag act and a comedian with a great voice and talent

If the UK were to enter a DQ with a comical name (Sophia Sausage?) it would be regarded as a joke, right?

I can only assume from reading comments like these that you did not watch the show last night or know much about Tom. Conchita is not a drag act or comedian, he has never done any sort of comedy as Conchita, only singing. And taken from his wikipedia page "While in German, Wurst means 'sausage,' the performer compares the choice of last name to the common German expression 'Das ist mir doch alles Wurst,' which translates as 'it's all the same to me,' and 'I don't care,' stating that the name emerged from the first meaning of the expression[5] and added, "It doesn't really matter where one comes from, and what one looks like." In the same interview the performer stated that the first name was from a Cuban friend." You could clearly tell from how emotional Conchita was last night after winning that this was not some sort of joke to her, as she said herself when she picked up the award; "this night is dedicated to everyone who believes in a future of peace and freedom...we are unity and we are unstoppable."

Just after searching #ConchitaWurst on twitter and all the tweets are so positive, one of the first ones I read said "Go Conchita! The world needs your message. As an Austrian I am proud of you and as a gay woman I am". But for some reason a lot on here seem to have viewed this so differently, I am very surprised!

[Badtranny]

Conchita is a Drag Queen. An entertainer who may indeed have an impact on pop culture but why the TG community would look to her for social cues is beyond me.

I love drag queens and drag culture, but I don't look to that particular community for style or grooming tips. Drag is becoming more mainstream and that couldn't possibly be a bad thing but let's not confuse performers who challenge gender politics on stage with people who challenge gender ideology at work.

Entertainers have always been at the bleeding edge of acceptance. Once Joe and Jane Average become fans, then it slowly becomes more difficult for them to think of 'those people' as all that different. This is progress kids, like it or not the world is beginning to acknowledge that maybe gender roles shouldn't be so rigid. Maybe a pretty face can have a beard. Maybe a penis doesn't necessarily make the man.

[Katey888]

Nicola,
I think you're missing the perspective of those of us who tried to respond to the OP - which core question for me was :
"But do you think things like this do the community good or harm, i'm unsure myself?"
To some extent, it matters less what this community thinks about Conchita (us being a tiny, teeny minority...) and more what the muggles think (the vast, unthinking, unaccepting, plebs sordida...) - and they, in turn, are heavily influenced by what the media are feeding them, and the UK media do not portray Tom/Conchita as TG, but as a gay man, who entertains in the guise of a DQ... Tom admits himself that he has created the persona to 'differentiate' him as an entertainer...
Personally, I could care less how Tom decides to look - I don't believe he's a campaigner as such, I'd expect that after Eurovision he'll only crop up on shows for his singing (which is good...) and the novelty factor. He doesn't see himself as a 'she' I believe (although the media, interestingly, all refer to her, she or Ms.) - he is an unconditional gay Mr. who does this for entertainment. I think it's the negative, homophobic campaigning from our Eastern European neighbours that has turned him - quite literally - into a cause celebre, not his own political conscience. The fact that he has come out with some pleasant but meaningless expression of 'unity' and 'peace and freedom' is what we used to get at the end of Miss World events... nice sentiments but not really carrying any weight..

And maybe social media is being positive on the whole - but there's still the typically bad stuff.... this, for example, on YT against one of Conchita's earlier TV appearances: "Don't let your kids watch this, they will be confused as f***. That's what's wrong with this kind of people, destroying the society and the natural way of things."
And that is probably not the worst, but I'd suggest pretty typical of a lot...

Katey x

[NicolaF]

I see what you are saying Katey

I think I was mostly focused on the overall outlook of this as a "win" for the LGBT community but maybe I wasn't focused enough what it means for our smaller niche inside that community.

At the end of the day I still believe it is a good thing for us, as I have seen a lot of people genuinely reacting so positively towards her, but maybe as it has been pointed out already in here those showing support for her were most likely supports in one way or another of LGBT rights already. As for the negative comments people are leaving her, unfortunately you will always have people like that, and to be honest I feel more sorry for the people who feel the need to go out of their way to show their hate because they obviously don't have true happiness in their own lives and so feel the need to bring down others.

Really it is probably a moot point overall. Those supporting Conchita were probably already on her side of the argument while those against her are those who are stuck in their ideas and probably will never change their opinions.

On a personal level I'm taking a lot of positives from it all anyway. As someone who is very deeply in the closet about my crossdressing/trans nature I have seen her as a huge inspiration and it already seems to have a minor upside for me. After clicking "like" on Conchita's Facebook page (something which I would never have done before because I am still trying to keep this aspect of my life secret from my friends) a random girl I know who also liked Conchita's page struck up a conversation with me about her and by the end of it I even sent her a picture of myself from one of my only times fully dressed which not too many have seen (done as a Halloween "joke", or so I was telling people ), so I think I have found a friend who I may be able to open up to. So for that I thank you Conchita, Queen of Europe!!

[Helen_Highwater]

I know this is going a little off piste but I did wonder if the beard was dyed black just to emphasize the dichotomy.

As for having an effect on public opinion? That might be measured by just how much this gets talked about on Monday as part of the work place banter.

[Lainie]

We should all be delighted at Conchita's success--a big win for her & for us. Look at the context--the Russian entry was booed. Putin has made a big deal of suppressing GLBT people, from Pussy Riot to the Olympics. He's also made a lot of enemies in Europe with the ongoing campaign against the Ukraine. Now an opportunity arises for the West to embrace in-your-face genderf***ing, in a huge cultural event that everyone watches, everyone makes fun of, and everyone loves. Conchita's the bearded lady at the circus, and all of Europe says "Let's have a little fun, let's accept everyone! We hate war and violence, not pretty men in glamorous dresses. We accept the bearded lady & reject the masked militants!"

As for me, I've had a handlebar mustache for 40 years, & have been going out shopping & partying fully en en femme for only about a decade. Sometimes I've covered up the mustache with a mask, but I don't think I will in future. Maybe it's time for me to start wearing eye make-up!

[Dena]

I thought he is an amazing singer, I just don't like the beard. Maybe if he styled it differently? I probably still wouldn't care for it. I also don't think it helps the average crossdresser.