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Thread: Crossdresser vs Transgender

  1. #1
    Junior Member Susan Stevens's Avatar
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    Crossdresser vs Transgender

    I have assumed the one was synonymous with the other, but maybe in my ignorance I am wrong. Two days ago I let one of my very old and dear friends in on my secret. We had lost touch for many years and I have always regretted not keeping better contact with him. We both come from a very similar background as we both grew up in the same church, schools and our families were always pretty close. He is homosexual, and was in the closet for a very long time, so I'm sure he understands better than most. One thing he has said puzzles me though. It seems he does not include a closet crossdresser into the umbrella of transgender. Not sure why, but will be asking the question to him when I find the opportunity. My questions to the group are: At what point do you consider an individual a transgender person? Do you consider your self transgender now? I am interested in all points of view on this.

  2. #2
    Valley Girl Michelle789's Avatar
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    Crossdressers are considered to be transgender under the transgender umbrella. Even if a CDer identifies as male, they are presenting as female so the gender expression is different from the gender assigned at birth, and therefore transgender. A transsexual women who is presenting as male is still transgender because the gender identity is different from the gender assigned at birth.

    There is a difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual. A CDer dresses as a woman and has less progressed gender dysphoria, while a TS has severe enough GD to transition. Some CDers may not have GD but just be men who like to wear women's clothes, although we can never know for sure who is male identified wearing women's clothes, female identified but won't transition, and female identified and will transition, and you may fall anywhere on the gender spectrum. CDers and TSes can go in both directions from MTF and FTM.
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  3. #3
    Junior Member Susan Stevens's Avatar
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    I have always thought the same as you just said, I just thought it was interesting my friend made the distinction. Wondered if I was wrong about how I saw it.

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    Shoe shopping shrew natcrys's Avatar
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    One way is not to worry about labels at all..

    Of course, when you're discussing stuff that's not always possible. I use the word "transgender" as an umbrella term for all things that have to do with unconventional expressions of gender, which in itself is already quite debatable. I consider myself a crossdresser, and thus by extension to be transgender.

    For some, transgender means that one is ( in whatever way) on a path towards transition and further.. but I think that's a narrow definition, because this is covered with being TS.

    Ah well.. the debate will probably never end.
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    Hi Susan, If you do find out for sure please let the rest of us know.
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    Bad Influence mechamoose's Avatar
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    I understood being transgender as being born in the wrong body. Crossdresser as being more comfortable role & presentation-wise in the opposing gender's accouterments.

    I'm a guy who likes presenting my female traits strongly enough where I'm not afraid to paint my nails, wear skirts, and be pretty.. but I'm NOT transgender. TG folks feel like aliens in their own body.

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    I think natcrys from Netherlands is correct, because it covers a wide spectrum of the feeling of gender. Sex is different. It is not a feeling. For example, I am male by sex, as I am physically male. But my gender is female as my internal feelings are feminine and I like ONLY the female role in bed. So I am TG and CD. Maybe, the term CD is covered under TS. But I am not TS or I am just a border case, with no plans for SRS.
    Last edited by susmitha; 06-21-2014 at 09:08 PM.

  8. #8
    Crossdresser Taylor186's Avatar
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    It has been my experience that the average gay or lesbian has no better understanding of the transgender umbrella (and its nuances) than the average straight person. By which I mean he or she has not much understanding and not much empathy either. It is as foreign as being gay is to a straight person.

    I personally subscribe to the broad umbrella definition, but if you hang around here long enough, and read prior threads on the topic, you will find that we (crossdressers) can't even agree on it.
    Last edited by Taylor186; 06-23-2014 at 06:37 AM. Reason: grammar

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    Put me down for the broad umbrella definition of transgender, also. I think all the other labels are subsets. Isn't the LGBT acronym set up that way, also? It isn't LGBCD, or LGBTS, is it? Maybe we need more labels. Like pseudo-CD, or semi-TS.

  10. #10
    Charlotte Allison Morris NavyM2F_WAM's Avatar
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    I'm a crossdresser (for only the last few months, but have thought about it for years). I want to transition to become a woman (have thought about that one for even longer). I don't consider myself to have any "gender dysphoria" (or whatever). I just love wearing women's clothes and want to become a woman.

    I wonder what exactly this means that I am. Thoughts?
    Charlotte

  11. #11
    New Member Mishell's Avatar
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    I go for the umbrella as well. I see it broken down however, not as a label, but rather levels or stages. all of which are under the umbrella of Transgendered. I know others will disagree, but its perfectly logical.

    Crossdresser: Wearing 1 or more articles of clothing of the opposite sex. (The reason doesn't matter) . No make up or wigs.
    Transvestite: Going the extra step in order to more closely resemble the opposite sex. For men: (Make up, wig, painted nails). But not living as the opposite sex full time, and no desire to live as the opposite sex full time.
    Non op Transexual: Living as the opposite sex without wanting gender reassignment surgery. (For men, this could include breast implants/enhancement and/or hormones).
    Pre-op Transexual: Living as the opposite sex with plans for gender reassignment surgery.
    Post-op Transexual: Living as the opposite sex after having GRS.

    OH, and obviously there could be transitional stages between these stages as well. Its not written in stone. Just a basic guideline.

    I'd like to mention also that, in MY experience, I've found that there is a HUGE gap between the gay community and the transgendered. I've found that gays don't really accept TGs, whether the TG is straight or gay themselves. I've seen mostly animosity from gays towards TGs. This surprises me as one would think that they would have more tolerance toward the TG community. Oh well.

  12. #12
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    Yes, transgender is the broader umbrella term, but I tend to use it to describe myself since it is the one with public recognition, the "T" in LGBT.
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  13. #13
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    To me, cross-dresser and transgendered are quite different.

    one is psychological and the other is physiological as well.
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  14. #14
    Junior Member amander-'s Avatar
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    Hi there susan

    I say yes to trangendr i am trangendr from(a) to (b) and when i get to (b) i will be a women. When i came in to the world i had the mined of a women but body of a man.
    So when i get the srs dun i will be so happy.

  15. #15
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Darn!

    And i thought this was going to be a thread with video like 'Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla'... 'Crossdresser vs Transgender' - the new Tarantino release features Uma Thurman and Dustin Hoffman... Oh well...

    I find Dymo labels are good because they don't fade - frankly, everyone here seems to have their own need or requirement for a particular category to either prove or disprove that they're part or not part of some group that is recognised or not recognised and.... now.... where tf was I???

    My personal view is that I am a crossdresser and I am - to a small degree - TG... Why, otherwise, would I feel the need to present as a female and why would that action seem to be so right and harmonious? (I make a point here that there is no sexual element to my CDing anymore)

    How significant the degree of TG is determines what lengths we must go to, to satisfy that need for harmony... Mine has not been so distinct that I have actually made it out in public, although I might yet try that.... And I can seemingly satisfy my needs with a small amount of dressing each day, and a transformation once every few weeks...

    I don't think CDers are all TG - I think there are some for whom the activity remains a fetish or an activity, sometimes sexual but not always, and there are always grey areas across all of this gender stuff... We are all one big happy family really...

    I agree with others here who are surprised that you'd think because someone was homosexual and closeted they'd understand much beyond just the secretive nature of what we are and do - I think we probably come across as just weird to most folk, hetero or LGB, but that goes with the turf...

    Another weekend head scratching and the only image I'm left with is a group of Japanese businessmen running down a city street in terror, screaming... "Crossdresser!! Crossdresser!!!"

    Katey x
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  16. #16
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    Technically, TG is supposed to including dressers, but like many things it depends on the context. When TG is used by the mainstream culture, they usually mean transsexuals though (those who are more out and visible.) Heck, most of mainstream society does not even know hetero TVs even exist!

  17. #17
    Out and Proud Charla McBee's Avatar
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    I fought against myself claiming the TG label for years, simply refusing to put any deep thinking into my CDing even though I probably always knew better. In recent months I have been systematically breaking down my walls, doing a lot of research and devoting a lot of time to honest self reflection. I finally came across bigender, the sense of fluctuating gender identity, which puts me firmly in the TG camp. I could see myself going through some sort of transition to try and balance out the dysphoria but I feel like surrendering to the binary and picking a side wouldn't do me any good.

    Naturally I support the use of Transgender as a broad umbrella term for anyone expressing cross-gender behavior or identity that cares to adopt it. TS people are TG but not all TGs are TS. It's that last part that seems to cause a bit of friction. There really is a wide spectrum here ranging from the casual CD who is secure in their assigned gender and reports no dysphoria to the full TS who overwhelmingly feels like they have always been in the wrong body. I like this inclusive view as it is meant to bring us all together in solidarity. Where ever you fall on the spectrum, we all have some things in common and struggle daily with society's lack of understanding. Instead of arguing over who is exactly what, we should allow people to express their identities as they see fit and welcome them all to our wider community.
    For years I hoped I was just a CDer but now I realize I am transgender and that's alright.

  18. #18
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    Hi Susan,

    As many will attest here, I am not a label gal but I also understand that labels help to explain things to others and find our place in our own minds. I agree with many here that CD is under the TG moniker and when I explain my chosen lifestyle to others I will start with "Do you know what transgendered means?" If their face gets that blank screensaver mode look then I will say "Do you know what a cross dresser is?" . It is normally at that point where clarity tends to occur (Yes a guy who likes to dress like a girl) and then I will bring them into the explanation of TG/CD vice TG/TS as it gives them a baseline to start from.

    Hugs

    Isha

  19. #19
    Platinum Blonde member Ressie's Avatar
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    It's interesting that the words crossdresser, transvestite and transexual are nouns, while transgender is an adjective. The noun is transgenderism. If anyone finds this wrong please set me straight with a link to a dictionary.

    Dictionary (adjective) = Identify with a gender other than the biological one..

    Are there closet CDs that don't really identify as women? If one dresses part time are they transgender part time? I know many of us on this board identify with being totally male even when en femme. When en femme for hours there may come a point that one forgets they are presenting as a woman, hence their identity can be male even when dressed.

    To me it's someone that identifies with the opposite sex all the time. If we're confused about the word's meaning, the general public doesn't have a clue. The way the word is used by the media would leave one thinking that transgender = gay. The link below has an accurate description IMO.

    http://transequality.org/Resources/T...ology_2014.pdf
    Last edited by Ressie; 06-22-2014 at 09:43 AM. Reason: link added
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  20. #20
    Senior Member Deedee Skyblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle789 View Post
    they are presenting as female so the gender expression is different from the gender assigned at birth, and therefore transgender.
    So when a straight male dresses as a woman at Halloween, and honestly tries to fool people, but has no desire to dress at any other time, that makes him transgender? Or, just transgender as long as he has the clothes/wig/makeup on?

    Deedee
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  21. #21
    Member devida's Avatar
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    One of the reasons, Ressie, that I like the word transgender as descriptive of the whole gender variant spectrum is because it clearly means across or cross gendered. Trans means across. The word doesn't describe how far across. Wearing a single item of clothing that is defined as belonging to another gender could allow someone to define themselves as being transgender. It certainly doesn't have to. A man could just prefer the way panties feel and be totally identified as a man. But if wearing the panties gives him a bit of an illicit thrill then he is crossing genders and could identify as transgender. Again, he doesn't have to do so. Even if he dresses fully en femme he still doesn't have to, though by then I would certainly think he was.

    But who am I and what right do I have to decide on matters of another person's gender identity? None. I really only have the right to label myself.

    Transgender is a useful way for me to define myself. I find it liberating and it brings me a great deal of personal comfort. But that is because I did not understand that the discomfort I felt came from attempting to confine myself within the straightjacket of gender binaries until I understood myself to be trans. I don't even agree that the binaries are accurate at describing sex. Most biologists would agree. I don't really think that I am male or female by sex but I don't have the physiological proof. What's between my legs is not as important as what's between my ears. I am pretty sure the brain structures that reference my sex are like those of other transgender mtfs. That is to say certain structures are closer in appearance to a woman's than a man's. If they weren't I do not see not see why I would experience gender dsyphoria and I clearly do. The issue of non-binary sex is even more controversial than transgender.

    Sexuality is the only area where fluidity and variability has a degree of social acceptance, and as we all know that's just a degree. Sexuality does have a number of words for use that are analogues of transgender, including bisexual and pansexual.

    In the the LGBT spectrums the definitions of Lesbian and Gay are widely known and uncontroversial. There is more controversy over the term Bisexual with frequent assertions that bisexuals are gays, lesbians, or heterosexuals who just can't make up their minds. I think this is foolish and like all attempts at disempowering minorities a result of fear that one's own identity is under attack by the very existence of people who identify differently. When we come to Transgender, as we can see from this discussion, although most LGBT organizations include cross dressing males in their definition of trans, not even all here agree. Like others I would, for social and political reasons, encourage cross dressers to identify as transgender since cross dressing men are clearly a much larger and consequently more politically and socially powerful group that other transgender minorities like transsexuals and the gender fluid like me. But I do not have the right to force any definition that involves self identity on anybody else. Human beings have done this for long enough and all we have to show for it is a history of pain and misery. Human beings may not have the ability as a species to stop doing this. That remains to be seen. But I do.
    Last edited by devida; 06-22-2014 at 08:50 AM.

  22. #22
    Silver Member Stephanie Julianna's Avatar
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    I used to think there was a difference between transgendered and crossdressers. I don't believe that now. Whether you are heading to full time womanhood or go back and forth I believe that is transgendered. If you called me transgendered years ago I would have denied it. Now I feel it defines me.

  23. #23
    Crossdresser Taylor186's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deedee Skyblue View Post
    So when a straight male dresses as a woman at Halloween, and honestly tries to fool people, but has no desire to dress at any other time, that makes him transgender? Or, just transgender as long as he has the clothes/wig/makeup on? Deedee
    That male, straight or gay, is not transgender: dressed or not.

  24. #24
    AKA Lexi sometimes_miss's Avatar
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    Again we come to the problem of someone feeling the need to define each person as one thing exclusively. Which is often wrong. We can be many things at the same time, to whatever degree, and it's all just fine that way. Get used to it, because very few of us can fit entirely, and only, in one category.
    Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
    There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
    Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.

  25. #25
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    I always thought transgender and crossdresser were pretty much the same thing. Transexual is obviously different, and transvestite is just the fetish. After reading this thread, I'm still not totally clear on TG vs. CD, lol. They're awfully close to synonyms.

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