Ultimatum or Fair Deal?

[Wildaboutheels]

As quite a few here seem to feel they should have no restrictions whatsoever from their SOs...

I believe the vast majority that water here are either in a "SO does not know" situation or some degree of DADT. Most seldom post/are professional lurkers.

What if your SO came to you out of the blue and proclaimed, "I know how much you enjoy dressing, so at home you can wear any clothing or shoes you want. But NO makeup, wigs or padding or shapewear".

1] You immediately reply with ____________________________________?

2] You are too stunned to say anything and have to chew on it a bit before you are able to react.

3] You race to her just as fast as your feet can carry you and simply say "Thank You" and leave it at that.

4] Other?

I have a feeling "most" GGs might have an "easier time" with "just" clothing?

[Emi_]

My SO gives me total freedom, but I hadn't told her about my dressing at the start. She found out about 2 years into our marriage and immediately had no problems with it.

My reaction at the time was kind of like #2. I was surprised and relieved and just a bit nervous as to what it all meant. My bigger concern was that she did not fully understand or foresee the possible ramifications of this decision and we did have a few bumps in the road as a result. Ultimately, communication and mutual respect enabled our love to win out.

[cdterri]

I wear dresses,skirts,tops,panties and once in awhile a bra if the dress needs it. No makeup or wigs.The SO has no problem with it.Early on She did remark that she probably would not like to see me in makeup or a wig. Why should I spend half the day applying make up, sweating under a wig and risk upsetting Her just to hang around the house and back yard?

[Jodi]

I learned a long time ago to watch ever giving anyone an ultimatum. There can be two responses--the one you desire and the one you can't live with. Be prepared to get that response you can't live with.

Jodi

[Linda E. Woodworth]

I tend to think it would be more of an ultimatum. Especially as it is very one sided and didn't take the spouses feelings into consideration.

While on the outside it might seem like this is a very good deal, in reflection it is far from it. As a Cross Dresser I'm trying to portray as good a feminine image as I possibly can. That requires all the items that are on the supposed "off limits" list.

It's all about the clothes and other goodies that goes with dressing as a woman. Just part of it is OK for a while, but eventually the overwhelming desire to dress fully breaks out and won't be denied.

[Zoe B]

This seems like a good question for me to start my time here with

My fiancée is very relaxed about my dressing to the point she likes to give me make-up tips (even tried new ideas out on me first - bit like a test bed). We have always been open and honest about everything between us and I think that is the key.

I don't know how I would reply to the question you posed as I have had no real restrictions. I can tell you I was nervous at first that she was only doing it to please me (fall out from a previous marriage) and that made me nervous. I guess answer two would have been my initial reaction followed by relief.

[Amylou2014]

Is this post because of me?

I'm sorry but wives of cders are suppose to set rules and boundaries. The wife is the one thats understanding and accepting, if there are a few things that are hard for her to deal with, then so be it, at least she didn't leave you. I found out 2 yrs after marriage and that hurt, so any accepting coming from my end should be respected not scrutinized or tested.

My husband is completely fine with the no wigs, no makeup, and no fake boobs intimately.
I still do his makeup for him and I still take him shopping and by his wigs. I just do t want to feel like a lesbian while have sex.

[Rachael Leigh]

First after I wake up from the dream I would embrace her and make sure thats really what shes ok with and do my best to make her always feel special.
Im not sure how much I would dress much in front of her if she was good with it but since I do enjoy some of the styles that are more generic than out and out feminine it might be great. I for one would have a drawer full of night wear since I love that so much

[Confucius]

I would agree with your wife. The wife sets the boundaries.

However, I would not consider it an ultimatum. If your wife loves you and knows your CDing makes you happy, then you are free to discuss it with her. For instance, you may respond by saying, you will not wear a wig, make-up, pads or shapewear without her permission. After you discuss it then tell her that you love her more than anything. You even love her more than your CDing. My wife sets my boundaries and I am grateful for it - without her boundaries I would be a mess.

Always recall that your wife has needs too. She needs to feel held and loved by a man. She needs to feel secure and protected by a man. And she needs to love a man she can respect and honor. Show her that you are that man.

[Teresa]

Wild,
I would initially accept the offer to dress but the stage on offer is just a guy in a dress ! OK your partner may be comfortable with it but it's also the level that gets sniggered at, some guys may accept it others may get pretty upset because it's not what their dressing is about !
I posted a thread a while ago called , " Calling you bluff ". I suggested that your partner says its OK to dress and when you have , she asks OK what now ?
These scenarios are just cruel to a CDer, this is a point Isha made in a thread, it's controlling and lacking in understanding !
Most of us have struggled silently for years it's very hard for an average guy to admit he's a CDer ! When he does come out he doesn't deserve the cruel hardship that he's often forced to accept.
He certainly isn't doing it to intentionally hurt his partner !

[Amylou2014]

Always recall that your wife has needs too. She needs to feel held and loved by a man. She needs to feel secure and protected by a man. And she needs to love a man she can respect and honor. Show her that you are that man.

I love this! Soooo true! As a GG I completely agree! And that's what I was trying to say!

[Zylia]

I don't have a SO in the first place, but that would be a no deal for me. I dress for the 'complete illusion' (whether I succeed or not), not just for the clothes. I don't want to dress all the time, I just want the time to do it right (or at least how it's right for me) every now and then.

[Donnagirl]

I love this! Soooo true! As a GG I completely agree! And that's what I was trying to say!

My dear SO would say exactly the same...

[Katey888]

It's a good question Wild - and while you didn't constrain the question to those who were just Closeted or DADT, the question clearly only really makes sense to us folks in those apparently unenviable states... so, as an FC (Fully Closeted) member...

Yes, I'd be stunned..

Yes, I'd be grateful that we now have an opportunity to talk...

No, I wouldn't think it was a fair deal - but it would be a great chance to talk about how and why I personally, am afflicted the way that I am, and why I seem to need more than just a nice Laura Ashley dress and a pair of slingbacks... As Teresa rightly said, now I'm a DiD (Dude in Dress) - there's little point in that for me - I need the whole transformation...

Of course, it's another fantasy scenario - and I wouldn't be responding with my own ultimatum, but I might just end up being elevated to DADT from FC... Progress of sorts, I s'pose...

Katey x

[NicoleScott]

I would reply with "that doesn't work for me".
I guess a wife can set boundaries, but they have a better chance of working if the rules are negotiated and agreed upon. Without an agreement, the boundaries are doomed if they don't adequately accommodate the CDer's drive. Throwing on a dress doesn't do it for me - I like wigs, shapewear, makeup, fake painted nails, jewelery, and perfume. I can agree to confine my dressing to the home, in private.
Be careful about ultimatums. You don't give someone a choice you don't want him/her to take.

[Marcelle]

I guess a wife can set boundaries, but they have a better chance of working if the rules are negotiated and agreed upon. Without an agreement, the boundaries are doomed if they don't adequately accommodate the CDer's drive . . . Be careful about ultimatums. You don't give someone a choice you don't want him/her to take.

I agree with Nicole. My wife is fully supportive of my dressing and any compromise I have made or she has made are negotiated between two consenting adults. She is not my parent nor am I hers. I would never demand she do something as she would never demand I do so. Demands lead to bitterness and that will definitely lead to a strained relationship.

. . . Always recall that your wife has needs too. She needs to feel held and loved by a man. She needs to feel secure and protected by a man. And she needs to love a man she can respect and honor. Show her that you are that man.

Interesting assertion. Does this mean because I dress like a woman from time to time I cease being a man. If I took the meaning the wrong way, I apologize but it seems to me that is what you are saying.

IMHO, I am quite certain that being a man or more precisely a good human being in a loving relationship is about more than clothing. If I am mean, selfish, angry, harmful . . .then I am not being a good man (dressed or not). If I am being loving, nurturing, caring then I am being a good man (dressed or not). However these are all traits I expect in my wife as much as she expects them in me.

Hugs

Isha

[Wildaboutheels]

But, but, but but...

Doesn't the fact that she knows but didn't immediately pack her bags and leave you a farewell note account for something?

Or that if she's partially open, she can't be "worked on/negotiated with" a little at a time?

Of course I am not talking about what seems to happen here so often that ladies report. The GGs gave an inch or several but the CDer wanted a foot or a yard and pushed too far too fast and got themselves into boiling water. It's what many GGs report.

Aren't most people flexible about "most" things if done at a slow steady pace? Seems to me that's how many here got to the point where they are with their SOs?

[NicoleScott]

Of course I am not talking about what seems to happen here so often that ladies report. The GGs gave an inch or several but the CDer wanted a foot or a yard and pushed too far too fast and got themselves into boiling water. It's what many GGs report.

Shame on the CDer that does this. Rules should be re-negotiated, not broken. And neither the wife nor the CDer should agree to terms they know they won't be able to keep. That's why re-negotiation must always be in play.

[Stephanie Julianna]

My immediate reply would be that I really appreciate the thought but I could never go that route. The last thing I want to do is look like a man in women's clothes. Lets just keep things the way they are. I'll dress completely when I can and not do it around you. But I love you for the thought.

[typhoidmary]

I don't personally agree with anyone giving ultimatums in relationships, but then what the hell do I know, all of mine have been trainwrecks. I also sympathise with women finding it hard to accept this kind of thing especially when generally it seems to be something that gets sprung on them, so whether or not it's fair, it's definitely understandable. You could argue it's not fair that they have to accept this new part of you into the relationship just like that either. I guess in that way I'm glad this is a full time thing for me, anyone entering into a relationship with me knows what they're getting into right away on that front and if they don't like my hair or my makeup or my clothes, without which my life wouldn't seem worth living, then they know I'm not the one for them.

[suchacutie]

I'm closer to Nicole on this one. I don't know that I can agree with the initial premise. When my wife and I discussed everything about Tina, we brought all the thoughts out into the open and then tried to be sensitive to each other. Tina is much more than clothes. In fact, she is a whole other personality and it is that which drives our curiosities.

It seems to me that ultimatums are the beginning of the end.

[Laura28]

My wife has known for years, she is very accepting, and supportive. Her only request and yes it is a request that i dont do make up and wig in front of her, she is fine with me wearing anything else at home or in the bedroom. She does like to see my pictures i take while i am traveling for work, but just not in person. She also has no issue purchasing me clothes or make up i cant tell you how many times i have called her when she is out and ask her to pick me up some eye make up or mascara.

I can live with that, and hse has said some day she will meet the full laura when she is ready.

[MatildaJ.]

The initial scenario makes no sense to me.

Does your hypothetical SO mean A or B?

A. "at home you can wear any clothing or shoes you want. But if I find any wigs or padding or shapewear in the house I will throw it out and throw you out."

Or the much more reasonable:
B: "When I'm around you can wear any clothing you want, but I don't want to be around you in wigs, makeup, padding, etc. So do that on your own time."

To me, it feels like another person is in the house when the wig is on, so I have a right not to hang out with that new person if I don't feel like it. That doesn't mean the CDer can't be that person when I'm out -- or even when I'm home but then deal with me retreating into a book and not being social that evening.

[Lorileah]

awesome, you get something you would have asked for if you negotiated prior and instead of taking it as a win (or partial win) you all want to pretend it is a Tijuana market and dicker.

Here is how I see that going

You: "No, I don't think you have the right to make the rules for me. I will take dressing and makeup and a wig but not out of the yard"

Her: "my counter offer is you can dress once a week."

You: "But you said 'at home you can wear any clothing or shoes you want. But NO makeup, wigs or padding or shapewear' there was no time limit on it"

Her: "You are absolutely correct, but you turned down that offer so here is the new offer."

You: "I'll take the initial offer"

Her: "That has expired, how about you can wear panties?"

Of course you could just walk out then..after all you are the one who is in charge of your marriage. Right? How many times have we seen that work?

[Amylou2014]

I still think if your SO, accepted the fact that you like to dress(your should already be really happy), but gave you a "list" of things she was not comfortable with, you should respect that. Later down the road things can be rediscussed.

But as a man with a SO that didn't leave you, you should comply with the things she says. It's probably already hard to just think of the fact that your a cder. So whatever makes her more comfortable....you should do....IF it is a SO that you really care about or want a future with.

If you have a lifetime with that person why push it on day one so to speak.