Tonight's Bad Outing

[Katy120]

Charlotte, You really need to invest in a good, five-blade razor. I'd recommend using Edge shaving cream with your new razor. Generally it takes two or three shaves to get a reasonably close shave for CD purposes. There are several valuable You Tube videos that will help you deal with the five o'clock shadow. All of these techniques won't guarantee you won't be subjected to some mean-spirited words or actions, but it might help.

[NavyM2F_WAM]

Thanks. I was using a Gillette Fusion, but I found much better success with a Venus. The comfort strips help, and the blades seem to work better. I had actually used shave gel and shaved the "normal" way (as opposed to dry shaving).

[JaytoJillian]

Wow, am I the only one who thinks this comment was kinda rude and judgmental? Please lighten up, KM. We're supposed to support one another. What's that old adage? "if you can't say something nice, then STFU?" Have a wonderful day!

you are just pretending to relax, have a bite and enjoy the game... you were there for one reason.

You were there to be seen..
You were definitely seen.

I bet you that those shoes have never seen the light of day outside of clubs and fetish conventions though....yuchh

[Rogina B]

Jillian, Not in those same words,but I agree with Kaitlyn's comment. It was not a "blendable" outfit for a Hooters..My own critical comment is that all of us should always critically look in the mirror before we step out the door into the mainstream world...unless you are there as a "GFer",we are judged INITIALLY on our appearance..May be wrong,but it is mostly true.

[NavyM2F_WAM]

I understand, but I only wear these types of shoes. My dress was midi-length, and covered a little bit more than a tank dress. I was not dressed provocatively.

What is a "GFer"?

[Nadya]

He probably said that to you because he was checking you out and then got embarrassed. I can sympathize on wanting to wear platform heels and the dress but even a woman that wore that to a Hooters would get a lot of scrutiny. An experience like that really shows you how childish these hormone-drive young man-babies really are. They probably pinched the waitresses butt too. Looking on the bright side, at least you've learned from the experience and know how to compose yourself. I'd say you might want to carry some pepper spray with you for protection and definitely not travel alone when out. That can be dangerous.

[Angie G]

Some people really do suck. Love the shoes hun.
Angie

[Laura912]

Only one other person has suggested this. Is it possible that he was also a CD and was trying to help you? Maybe he has not been on this forum and learned a few manners to use when engaging another dresser in public. Reasons for suggesting this are: he only commented on the appearance of your beard maybe meant as a heads up for you to get a little more concealer, there was no further interaction with the table for the rest of the meal, and none of the people at the table followed you out of the restaurant. Yes, the experience was frightening and upsetting to you and this is not meant to change that. We were not there so it is difficult to tell if this interpretation could have applied to the situation.

[NavyM2F_WAM]

Thanks for the suggestions and all that.

I don't have any friends (people usually think I'm a stick in the mud or too uptight. I was raised in a strict Christian home, so I still hold onto some of those teachings. It makes people not want to do things with me.

[Badwolf]

Hooters actually seems like one of the better potential sports chains for us.

The girls are already used to getting hounded, so they have a high probability of supporting us en femme. I mean depending on the location, you may end up with small minded women as well, but if there are places where women traditionally bond together, its in places geared towards ogling women.

The rest of the sports bars, you'll get the same crowds with less potential for supportive people around.

[NavyM2F_WAM]

Well, are there any national, regional, or local places that are geared toward people like us? I would like to go to them (have to be in this area).

[Eryn]

Hamburger Mary's leaps to mind, but the closest location to you is Jacksonville.

One thing to consider is if you truly want to go to a place "geared toward people like us". If I go to a "LGBT-friendly" place I will usually have a good time, but since they are geared for us I will certainly be made. I don't mind this, but I will be part of the entertainment for many patrons of the establishment.

I usually go to mainstream places where, since most people don't even consider LGBT issues, my chances of blending in are better. I tend to avoid places where people are looking for potential mates as I don't need that kind of scrutiny.

[NavyM2F_WAM]

Actually, my soon-to-be ex-wife (who is cool with most everything now) mentioned that she wants to take me to Hamburger Mary's. I was in Jacksonville for eight years. She still lives there (her whole life, in fact).

I am looking for potential mates.

[LelaK]

Shopping at the mall one afternoon. Dressed much more conservatively than you - white blouse, blue jeans, flats, etc. - and a big guy walks up to me and spits in my face and says, "You're a disgrace!" This was right in the middle of the mall and EVERYONE is staring at me and I'm covered in some guys spit and shaking in fear and embarassment.

Nothing like that has happened to me in a very long time, but I can never forget that day.

That's why I don't plan to go too public myself. I'm not a very brave person and I try to avoid potential danger.

[Alice Torn]

Navy, I relate to you in a few ways. I spent 30 years in a very conservative church, and the only problem i have is their stance against us. I still have morals , but dressing is a deeply personal issue, i don't think most people religious or not comprehend. I also have no close friends, because of the same reasons you shared. I think more and more people are becoming loners, because trust is so hard to earn, and easy to lose.

[BillieAnneJean]

Real women are careful where they go and when they go there. M to F CDers do well to use the same common sense. If you go to a place like Hooters, you will be encountering men who want to see women in ridiculous "uniforms". It is a place that has more draw for guys than for women. It is loaded with testosterone. Same for sports bars, strip joints, and the after work bar/hangout that is by the factories. All a predominately male atmosphere. When a GG goes in there, by herself, dressed like you may have been, in anything other than sexually neutral, the guys will think that she is fair game. Although their actions were bad manners to you, I, and the waitresses, where those guys come from, the people they hang around with, their part of the culture, that behavior is "normal" or "guys just being guys". Even though you were totally innocent. it won't mean squat if you end up getting beat up over it.

Next time use some common sense and pick a place a single GG would go to.

[Alice Torn]

Billie Anne Jean has a good warning, common sense. If we go dressed to hilt, , it is like a place where fire (testosterone) is, and bringing a can of gasoline by the fire. Maybe try a classical music venue, like a classical concert in the park. I hope to do that tomorrow evening by myself. Or go to a mall, book store, safer place. It sounds like a good deal going to Jacksonville for you.

[NavyM2F_WAM]

What kind of places do single GGs go to? I am "on the prowl", as it were, so I want to be around attractive women, but I don't want to be in a situation like I was at that outing. Nor do I want to make anyone uncomfortable around me.

[BillieAnneJean]

Women on the prowl are typically sending out a signal. That signal is going out 360 degrees -every direction. It is ambiguous about anything other than notice me. That signal is received by all the sharks. If the location is a draw for male sharks then you can reasonably expect to have male sharks approach you. When the male sharks discover that the signal they have been receiving is misleading, not "truthful" and that their receiver has been purposely fooled, perhaps their ability to make a fundamental determination of gender, their image is in question with their heard, they may react in a manner the signal sender does not intend. In other words you got the attention you were asking for. Their reaction is entirely up to them. They had to show you that you were not fooling them, their ability to determine gender, the first decision in the sex sequence, was working well.
I am not sure you get it. If you want to attract ONLY women then you will be better off going to a venue frequented mostly by women.
If you go to a venue that caters mostly to men, then good luck. Eventually you are going to get something, although wrong, that is quite predictable.
I have interactions with GGs just about everywhere I go. I must be doing something "right". I go to places that GGs do. Not because I want to attract GGs. My wife is WAY MORE than anything I could ever find out there. I go to places GGs go to because they are typically safer for CDers.
So I don't have the adventures you had, I hope to never have the adventures you are going to have. Please keep posting your experiences because others need to see this type of behavior and the consequences.

[NavyM2F_WAM]

Politely correct me if I'm wrong, but was that an attempt to just call me a little bit stupid and foolish?

If I knew what type of places to go to, then I might go there more often. I'm sorry I had this bad experience, but I don't really have people to help me, and besides, I'm in the Augusta, Georgia area, the most backward and non-helpful city for the alternative lifestyle community. If I was in the Atlanta area, then I might have better times. I think even Savannah or Columbia are better.

[HipHugger]

I've never understood the allure of Hooters either. <shrugs> Only been there a couple times but the food was mediocre, the prices high for what you got, and (obviously) the whole name of the game is to have artificially "pretty" women pay attention to men to upsell in whatever way possible.

I dunno, maybe I'd have enjoyed it 20 years ago, but now it just seems kind of silly. Of course I'm not big on the sports bar scene in general - I'd rather, if I'm going to a bar, go someplace with good, live music, or even quieter so I could talk more easily to the folks I'm with.

But back to Navy's original issue - hard to tell from a text description of the event, but my first take on it was that they were attempting to denigrate you or provoke you. Probably there was no issue with your "beard" they just pegged you as a CD and chose that line to make you get under your skin.

Long story short, like many others have said, I'd try some different venues - maybe steer clear of the sports bar scene.

[Alice Torn]

Navy, I am 60, and long before i started to dress fully, at 51, i have wonder how the heck married people met their mates. I have not found many single women anywhere looking . In Rockford Illinois, it has always been a bad place to try to find a girlfriend or wife! I here some people meet at college. i was a poor blue collar sensitive guy, could not afford more than a few courses at a community college. Personal ads? Some find mates there, but i have had little success there. Bars? NOT! Singles clubs? Some dancing, but no close relationships. We all need to be improving ourselves, unlearning some things, learning better things. I have been a messed up work in recovery and trying to change, but I notice, that after 45 or so, many, if not most "single" women i run into, are divorced, and really don't want to date again, unless you are quite financially successful. Trying times, these, in some ways like no other time.

[Vickie_CDTV]

I would not rely on a drunk frat boy to give one an accurate, objective appraisal of one's job covering their beard. He probably said that just because it was the first thing that came to his mind (might have said something about one's adam's apple showing or something instead.) Even if you do have shadow, it does not mean you are not getting a close enough shave. You can run a blade across your face until it bleeds, the shadow under the skin will not go away short of permanent removal (or at least permanent hair count reduction.)

Whatever it is worth, I think the dress is fine and not inappropriate. The shoes were too high, but I totally understand the appeal and why you would want to wear them. I would never judge someone for wanting to wear the shoes they like, I would only express concern for your safety. Wanting to wear really high heels does not make one "stupid", one needs to be careful in public, but it does not make someone "stupid". Many of us dress to please ourselves, and not to necessarily reflect what GGs do.

A few years out of college, by my late 20s, I found it almost impossible to meet new people much less find a date. I guess at that point in life people start marrying off, having kids and/or have a job they are to practically married to 24-7 (I am in this position), and the pool really begins to narrow (and that as a cis man looking for a cis hetero GG.)

[Brianna_H]

Hi, Navy. This response is in regard to your question about meeting people, rather than your original post. Of course, I sympathize with getting called out in public. What a bummer.

As far as meeting people, you really have to invest in the long term. What I mean is finding communities of people you generally like. Do you have any hobbies (besides crossdressing! lol)? Are there conventions for any of your interests where you can mingle with folks of similar interests within range?

I play roleplaying games, like Dungeons and Dragons, but it's a huge field. The conventions for that hobby are much more diverse than they've ever been, with more ladies and families showing up. That crowd is mostly male, but the point is that there are communities out there where you may find belonging.

If you're well and truly stuck in the boondocks, the internet really may be your only refuge. Again, I think finding communities is your best bet. Play video games? Most VG communities are full of idiot 12 year olds who call everyone names. However, there are some communities for games like world of warcraft that are specifically LGBT friendly, just for example.

When I was single I actually had some luck with online dating sites, like match.com. It seems crazy, but it can actually work.

I know what it's like to be crazy lonely for years at a time. It seems impossible sometimes to ever find anyone who will appreciate you, but there are 6+ billion people on earth. There's someone out there for you. Plenty of fish in the sea, as they say, but you'll never find what you want if you don't keep fishing and trying new techniques.

So many clichés, I know. Best of luck to you, sweetie.

[stefan37]

Again I don't think the guy that said something to you was necessarily being mean. He made the comment and moved in with no further interaction. That said until you are more experienced with your presentation expect more comments, ridicule, stares etc. If you have not had substantial facial hair removal. Beard cover is essential regardless how close you shave. Check out YouTube videos to see how this can be accomplished. PetriLude has some very good videos for makeup application.

Observe how woman are dressed for everyday activities. Try to emulate that apparel and go about your business. Leave the dresses and heels home for now. Become comfortable interacting with the public at convience store, grocery stores, malls etc. As you start to gain confidence and feel more comfortable you can ratchet up the dress.

You have spoken you would like to transition. Seek out and attend a transgender group. Meet people that are cross dressing and transitioning. They will be more than willing to help. Many have functions when they go out as a group. You will feel comfortable being in a group.

Going out and interaction with the public will require you to have a thick skin and a strong this is me attitude. You need to project confidence and OWN who you are.